Branding Mastery: Justin Eklund’s Guide to Merging Faith and Marketing Strategies

Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome to Seek, Go Create the Leadership Journey, the podcast for

Speaker: 00:00:03

Christian entrepreneurs and faith driven leaders who want to redefine success.

Speaker: 00:00:07

I'm your host, Tim Winders, and here we explore how to lead with purpose,

Speaker: 00:00:11

build businesses with integrity, and align your work with your faith.

Speaker: 00:00:14

Whether you're navigating challenges, seeking fulfillment, or striving

Speaker: 00:00:18

to make an impact, this is your space to grow, to grow, to Innovate

Speaker: 00:00:21

and create a life that matters.

Speaker: 00:00:23

Let's dive in.

Speaker: 00:00:36

How can faith-driven organizations not only survive, but thrive

Speaker: 00:00:40

in today's marketplace?

Speaker: 00:00:41

Meet Justin Eklund, a branding expert, author, and speaker

Speaker: 00:00:45

dedicated to answering this question.

Speaker: 00:00:48

With over 25 years in advertising, Justin has crafted a unique niche

Speaker: 00:00:52

by merging faith with business to create compelling brand identities

Speaker: 00:00:56

that drive both profit and purpose.

Speaker: 00:01:00

His book Brand For Impact serves as a roadmap for leaders looking to infuse

Speaker: 00:01:04

their spiritual values into their professional ventures, promising not just

Speaker: 00:01:09

economic success, but eternal impact.

Speaker: 00:01:12

We'll explore how Justin's approach helps organizations elevate their

Speaker: 00:01:16

mission and achieve sustainable growth.

Speaker: 00:01:20

Justin, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Speaker: 00:01:22

thanks.

Speaker: 00:01:22

It's a pleasure to be on.

Speaker: 00:01:24

I'm excited that you're on too.

Speaker: 00:01:25

You're coming in from a cold climate.

Speaker: 00:01:27

I'm in the warmth, so we'll see if we can merge these two

Speaker: 00:01:29

together and have some fun.

Speaker: 00:01:31

I just read your book over the last few days, so we're gonna have fun

Speaker: 00:01:34

with, branding and impact and purpose and business and lots of cool things.

Speaker: 00:01:39

Before we jump in, though, this is not even really a good icebreaker question

Speaker: 00:01:44

anymore, but it's kind of a deep thing, so I'm gonna give you a choice.

Speaker: 00:01:48

What would you prefer to answer?

Speaker: 00:01:49

What do you do?

Speaker: 00:01:51

Kinda like the icebreaker e question or who are you choose and start answering.

Speaker: 00:01:58

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:02:00

I think those questions go together for me.

Speaker: 00:02:03

I'm gonna start with who I am, which will lead into what I do.

Speaker: 00:02:08

I've been doing marketing and advertising my entire life, it

Speaker: 00:02:12

seems like from a young age.

Speaker: 00:02:14

I was selling things out on the corner and.

Speaker: 00:02:16

doing fundraisers and trying to be an entrepreneur, even from a very young age.

Speaker: 00:02:22

And I think that's always been in my blood.

Speaker: 00:02:24

And then my parents are both artists.

Speaker: 00:02:25

And so that creativity piece has always been a part of, I am as well.

Speaker: 00:02:30

And in high school I went to a Christian youth conference, called Christ in Youth.

Speaker: 00:02:36

And the last day we, there was a, an invitation to come forward if

Speaker: 00:02:41

you felt like God was calling you into full-time vocational ministry.

Speaker: 00:02:44

And for some reason I felt that tug on my heart and I felt like this

Speaker: 00:02:48

is, this is a big decision, but I feel like God wants me to do this.

Speaker: 00:02:51

So I went forward, made that commitment.

Speaker: 00:02:53

I had no idea what that was gonna entail in my life, but I knew I

Speaker: 00:02:58

God wanted me to, to be involved in ministry professionally somehow.

Speaker: 00:03:03

So I went to Bible college, discovered quickly that God was

Speaker: 00:03:06

not calling me to be a preacher or a missionary or a youth pastor.

Speaker: 00:03:11

And so I was a little, you know.

Speaker: 00:03:15

Confused, wondering, okay, God, you called me into ministry, but this doesn't seem

Speaker: 00:03:19

like this is where you want me to be.

Speaker: 00:03:20

So, prior to that, I had done some internships with advertising agencies

Speaker: 00:03:26

and you know, that's interesting to me, so at least I'm gonna get my degree.

Speaker: 00:03:31

came back here to Wichita State University, got a degree in marketing

Speaker: 00:03:34

and advertising, started climbing the corporate ladder, doing all

Speaker: 00:03:37

the, the things you do, in the, in the advertising world, and,

Speaker: 00:03:43

and really, became, experienced and talented at writing strategic

Speaker: 00:03:48

marketing plans for organizations, for companies, and helping them succeed.

Speaker: 00:03:52

So, you know, this seemed like is, this is kind of who God's created me to be.

Speaker: 00:03:58

I'm thriving in business and in creativity and in this area of advertising.

Speaker: 00:04:04

So, long story short, God called me in, in a really cool way to a

Speaker: 00:04:09

missions organization called ywam.

Speaker: 00:04:12

I didn't know.

Speaker: 00:04:13

It felt like a detour from my professional path, but I felt like I couldn't say no.

Speaker: 00:04:19

It was also in Maui, Hawaii, so that didn't hurt.

Speaker: 00:04:25

So I went there, did three months of training in Maui, and then the plan

Speaker: 00:04:29

was to go to the Philippines for three months and minister to the surf culture.

Speaker: 00:04:33

Well, there were a lot of California people on my team,

Speaker: 00:04:37

and they were much better surfers than I was being from Kansas.

Speaker: 00:04:40

So I ended up in India.

Speaker: 00:04:42

They needed a worship leader, and so I went on the India team and had the

Speaker: 00:04:45

most incredible three months of my life just ministering to, and making

Speaker: 00:04:50

friends with some of the most gracious, humble, generous people I've ever met.

Speaker: 00:04:55

so that was my missions for a, they asked me to stay on and do

Speaker: 00:04:58

communications and marketing for them, and I did that for a while.

Speaker: 00:05:02

Really felt called back to Wichita, which.

Speaker: 00:05:04

It's only God if he can move you from Hawaii back to Kansas.

Speaker: 00:05:08

Right?

Speaker: 00:05:09

So came back here, met my wife, I was, playing in a worship band.

Speaker: 00:05:14

I looked down from the stage and there was this light coming down from heaven and,

Speaker: 00:05:18

you know, this beautiful woman down there.

Speaker: 00:05:20

So came down, met my wife.

Speaker: 00:05:22

we were, you know, six months later we were married and we've

Speaker: 00:05:26

been married 20, almost 26 years now, which is pretty awesome.

Speaker: 00:05:31

And, she had a, she had a job at the time and so my friend started

Speaker: 00:05:35

a medical missions nonprofit and he said, would you come and do development

Speaker: 00:05:38

and marketing for me for free?

Speaker: 00:05:40

I'm like, okay, that doesn't seem like again, the career path is not

Speaker: 00:05:45

a, is not going in the direction I thought it was going to go.

Speaker: 00:05:48

But I really felt like God was saying for that he wanted me to do this.

Speaker: 00:05:52

So I did.

Speaker: 00:05:53

Got him really, off to a strong start.

Speaker: 00:05:57

Music has been a part of this journey.

Speaker: 00:05:59

Ended up leading worship for a youth group, in town.

Speaker: 00:06:03

And my friend, who was the youth pastor, as soon as I got there,

Speaker: 00:06:07

he left and they said, all right, would you stay and be the youth?

Speaker: 00:06:11

You know, be the youth pastor for a while.

Speaker: 00:06:12

And then after that think we'd like you to do communications for us and

Speaker: 00:06:18

we don't have a job and it's not even gonna be full time and we don't know

Speaker: 00:06:21

if it's gonna work out, but we know this is what you do and we would love

Speaker: 00:06:24

you to do it for us here at the church.

Speaker: 00:06:26

So after my wife and I prayed about it, we did it.

Speaker: 00:06:29

And looking back in retrospect, I had a front row seat to watch God grow that

Speaker: 00:06:33

little church of 500 to over 5,000.

Speaker: 00:06:36

In 14 years with, five campuses and tremendous life change, tremendous

Speaker: 00:06:41

impact, all of that is just really God's leading and God's guidance.

Speaker: 00:06:48

And, somehow I had the good sense or the courage to be obedient

Speaker: 00:06:53

to where he was leading me, even when it didn't make sense.

Speaker: 00:06:56

So that was, marketing and ministry all wrapped into one and looking

Speaker: 00:07:02

back, you're like, Hey, God, this is what you called me to do.

Speaker: 00:07:05

So 10 years ago we've felt like, hey, we've done, we've done what God

Speaker: 00:07:10

called us to do here at the church.

Speaker: 00:07:13

Now we feel like he's calling us into the marketplace to help

Speaker: 00:07:16

purpose-driven, leaders, business owners, entrepreneurs make a greater kingdom

Speaker: 00:07:22

impact through the work that they do.

Speaker: 00:07:25

Not only in ministry, but in the marketplace and really helping them

Speaker: 00:07:29

understand that they can, see their work as a sacred activity and really

Speaker: 00:07:35

grow their business, whatever it is, glorify God at the same time, then,

Speaker: 00:07:41

at the same time really infuse their faith into their brand, and have a more

Speaker: 00:07:45

impactful, presence in the marketplace and be more successful ultimately.

Speaker: 00:07:49

So our company, Grove Nine is 10 years old.

Speaker: 00:07:52

We've been doing that, for the past 10 years, and it's just been a neat journey

Speaker: 00:07:55

to look back and see God's faithfulness, throughout every step of the journey.

Speaker: 00:08:00

Well, one thing that's curious to me, you mentioned that both

Speaker: 00:08:03

your parents were artists what type artists were your parents?

Speaker: 00:08:08

So fine arts painting and they both had fine arts degrees, so

Speaker: 00:08:13

would they were, in the marketplace at all or were they in education or were

Speaker: 00:08:18

they creating that, what was, I guess I'm trying to get to, you mentioned you were

Speaker: 00:08:22

selling things at a young age and things like that in a family of two artists, so

Speaker: 00:08:29

help me connect a few dots right there.

Speaker: 00:08:33

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:08:34

I think the artistic DNA is just part of, who God made me to be.

Speaker: 00:08:39

they weren't, commercial successes or teachers or anything like that.

Speaker: 00:08:42

They just enjoyed art.

Speaker: 00:08:44

God had given them talent for drawing and painting and creating.

Speaker: 00:08:47

I got a little bit of that, but I also got this business side,

Speaker: 00:08:50

It's really interesting.

Speaker: 00:08:52

When I went to college for advertising, you kinda have to choose, are you gonna

Speaker: 00:08:56

an artist and a designer or are you gonna be more on the business side of things?

Speaker: 00:09:01

I was really torn because I enjoyed both of those.

Speaker: 00:09:04

now running my own agency, it's been really cool to be able to

Speaker: 00:09:08

do the strategy and also, be involved in the creative execution.

Speaker: 00:09:12

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:09:13

So this is the part of the, episode where if any of our parents are listening,

Speaker: 00:09:17

I'll say, maybe turn it off for a minute.

Speaker: 00:09:20

I don't wanna throw parents under the bus.

Speaker: 00:09:22

But both my parents were educators.

Speaker: 00:09:25

I thought that I was gonna be a coach and teacher, et cetera, until I

Speaker: 00:09:30

found out how much money my dad made.

Speaker: 00:09:32

And I didn't realize we were poor.

Speaker: 00:09:35

But, did.

Speaker: 00:09:37

Any of the desire for financial success drive you at a younger age?

Speaker: 00:09:44

And specifically, did you see something in your parents that you desired or

Speaker: 00:09:50

possibly didn't want to be that way?

Speaker: 00:09:53

Growing up, and again, we've already asked the parents not to listen in, so

Speaker: 00:10:00

we're not blaming them on anything.

Speaker: 00:10:03

no, that's a great question.

Speaker: 00:10:04

I do think that at that intersection during college, everyone told me,

Speaker: 00:10:12

you can be a starving artist or you can be in business and maybe

Speaker: 00:10:15

be financially more successful.

Speaker: 00:10:17

So I'd be lying if I said that didn't enter into the equation at all.

Speaker: 00:10:21

Well, I think that's part of our journey.

Speaker: 00:10:23

And I think sometimes as people of faith, we don't want to admit that, but that

Speaker: 00:10:28

was what drove me in the eighties, man.

Speaker: 00:10:30

I was go, go, go eighties.

Speaker: 00:10:32

I was gonna make me some money, and that was what the Lord used to get my attention

Speaker: 00:10:37

because I was saved in more of a business setting than even in a church setting.

Speaker: 00:10:41

So, I think it's okay because then what happens is later

Speaker: 00:10:45

in life the Lord uses that.

Speaker: 00:10:46

Like he's using you right now and all to kind of bring some

Speaker: 00:10:49

of these things together.

Speaker: 00:10:51

you brought up, so this is a good time to ask this question.

Speaker: 00:10:53

You brought up that you were around a church for a number of years and then,

Speaker: 00:11:00

it grew and I'm sure your role and probably your job and pay and different

Speaker: 00:11:05

things like that hopefully went up.

Speaker: 00:11:06

I sometimes get a little bit snarky about church world.

Speaker: 00:11:09

It's like, we've got this great talent, but you need to serve the Lord.

Speaker: 00:11:12

You need to do it for free here.

Speaker: 00:11:14

But then you kind of left there and went into marketplace.

Speaker: 00:11:17

I think this would be a good time to put a stake in the ground.

Speaker: 00:11:21

And I want to ask contrast the differences that you saw at that time

Speaker: 00:11:27

or maybe even today, I guess between traditional church world and marketplace.

Speaker: 00:11:35

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:11:37

You know, I think there's a misperception out there between

Speaker: 00:11:41

the sacred and the secular.

Speaker: 00:11:43

I think that business owners, business people in the church

Speaker: 00:11:48

feel like their job is maybe less than, spiritual than the pastor.

Speaker: 00:11:53

And I think that's really important to dispel that myth.

Speaker: 00:11:57

And I've grown in my understanding and my belief on that as well.

Speaker: 00:12:01

And, God's the author of work and he invented it.

Speaker: 00:12:05

He created it and.

Speaker: 00:12:07

Therefore it is a sacred activity.

Speaker: 00:12:10

you know, the Bible talks about if, if we're doing it to his glory, then that's

Speaker: 00:12:15

also part of what he's created us to do.

Speaker: 00:12:17

So I really wanted to, not redeem is too strong of a word, but when we started

Speaker: 00:12:23

this company, I really wanted to help Christian business owners understand

Speaker: 00:12:26

that your work is just as sacred and just as impactful for eternity as the

Speaker: 00:12:30

person on the stage giving the sermon.

Speaker: 00:12:33

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:12:33

So you mentioned you went to bible school.

Speaker: 00:12:35

I went to bible school a few years ago, about seven or eight years ago.

Speaker: 00:12:39

And, just to kind of throw a little bit of gas on that fire.

Speaker: 00:12:42

I just got started with this divide between marketplace and

Speaker: 00:12:47

full-time ministry type things.

Speaker: 00:12:49

I noticed that there was a real pecking order with, with the way

Speaker: 00:12:53

they talked about certain roles.

Speaker: 00:12:56

you know, it's kinda like the missionary to a third world country is number one.

Speaker: 00:13:01

I, I do wanna say that a missionary to Maui, though I'm not sure where that would

Speaker: 00:13:07

fall in the pecking order, and especially.

Speaker: 00:13:10

To surfers.

Speaker: 00:13:11

Come on.

Speaker: 00:13:12

I mean, that's like, I don't wanna get off track, but good gracious.

Speaker: 00:13:16

That got me thinking about things and then, you know, then it was maybe

Speaker: 00:13:19

evangelist, pastor, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker: 00:13:21

And then, you know, businessman, used, car salesman, lawyer, you know, that's

Speaker: 00:13:27

like the pecking order and all that.

Speaker: 00:13:29

And did you notice that when you were going through your schooling?

Speaker: 00:13:32

I think your bible school was probably at a younger age than mine was.

Speaker: 00:13:36

Yeah, I think there's some perception of that out there.

Speaker: 00:13:39

And yeah, it all comes back to that idea that, you know, what is ministry?

Speaker: 00:13:45

And, you know, understanding that everything that we put our

Speaker: 00:13:48

hand to, to the glory of God can be and should be ministry.

Speaker: 00:13:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker: 00:13:55

I mean, I've been doing a read through the gospels and, you know, the 12

Speaker: 00:13:58

that Jesus picked to hang out that.

Speaker: 00:14:02

Got this big party that we're celebrating in now started, none of them were

Speaker: 00:14:09

the scholars and the biblical, you know, religious people of the day.

Speaker: 00:14:13

They were fishermen, tax collectors and zealots and other type.

Speaker: 00:14:20

They would be the entrepreneurs of the world.

Speaker: 00:14:21

how long did you say you were in the church setting

Speaker: 00:14:23

that went from 500 to 5,000?

Speaker: 00:14:26

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:14:27

Over 14 years.

Speaker: 00:14:28

Wow.

Speaker: 00:14:29

Alright, so you learned a ton there.

Speaker: 00:14:33

Tell me some real takeaways you had, maybe just about organization and

Speaker: 00:14:39

organizational growth in general, but then maybe drop down and talk about what

Speaker: 00:14:44

you've learned in that environment that fed into, you know, the last 10 years in

Speaker: 00:14:50

branding for impact and things like that.

Speaker: 00:14:53

Because I'm sure you saw a lot of things that worked really well and

Speaker: 00:14:55

you probably had your hands in it and then maybe some things that didn't.

Speaker: 00:14:58

So just take some time and talk about that experience.

Speaker: 00:15:02

'cause I think there's a lot to learn there.

Speaker: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:15:07

You know, a church as a nonprofit organization, is different

Speaker: 00:15:11

than marketplace organization.

Speaker: 00:15:13

And so I think there's a lot you can learn about how to grow.

Speaker: 00:15:17

and have, I think healthy things grow and there's, I think God uses

Speaker: 00:15:22

our intellect and our strategy, the what He's put that inside of us in

Speaker: 00:15:27

addition to just our heart, right?

Speaker: 00:15:30

And so he wants us to be thinking, Christians, and he wants us to be

Speaker: 00:15:34

strategic and he wants us to use all of the faculties that he's given

Speaker: 00:15:37

us, to move his kingdom forward.

Speaker: 00:15:39

So understanding that growth mindset isn't a bad thing, I think is important.

Speaker: 00:15:45

a church grows through really the people that believe in the mission.

Speaker: 00:15:52

Life change.

Speaker: 00:15:52

we were constantly telling stories of how God was transforming people's lives.

Speaker: 00:15:58

it all comes down to your why.

Speaker: 00:16:00

It comes down to what you believe and what you're called to do.

Speaker: 00:16:02

And when your why resonates with your audience's, why

Speaker: 00:16:05

you're gonna have a really.

Speaker: 00:16:07

Wonderful strong connection and community that you're gonna be able to build.

Speaker: 00:16:11

And I think that's true in the church, and that's true in the business world,

Speaker: 00:16:14

and in the nonprofit world as well.

Speaker: 00:16:16

So telling stories of life change, telling stories of transformation,

Speaker: 00:16:21

that's how you engage people's hearts and ultimately engage their resources,

Speaker: 00:16:28

which is so closely tied to our hearts.

Speaker: 00:16:31

And I think really important for any nonprofit to understand when you're

Speaker: 00:16:35

asking for money, when you're trying to raise funds, when you're development,

Speaker: 00:16:39

when you're looking for volunteers, it's gotta be about the why and the

Speaker: 00:16:43

mission and the calling, then all of those other things fall into place.

Speaker: 00:16:48

One of the things when we get into marketing and even branding and sales and.

Speaker: 00:16:56

You just mentioned the word growth, all of those things.

Speaker: 00:16:59

It for people with certain personalities, mine, it can sometimes

Speaker: 00:17:06

be a slippery slope, Justin, where

Speaker: 00:17:08

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:17:09

you begin going down a path where you say something to the effect of,

Speaker: 00:17:16

well, if we, if we had more revenue or if we had more people in the

Speaker: 00:17:21

seats, we could have a bigger impact.

Speaker: 00:17:23

We could have a bigger budget, we could do more.

Speaker: 00:17:26

And so then we begin justifying certain tactics or techniques,

Speaker: 00:17:33

and I'll, I'll throw this word out here, manipulation possibly in the

Speaker: 00:17:38

arena that, that you may operate in.

Speaker: 00:17:43

How can we keep those things in check?

Speaker: 00:17:48

And, and again, I know you, you may have been in a church environment

Speaker: 00:17:51

that you're still connected with, so I don't want you to.

Speaker: 00:17:55

Saying, say negative about them, but I like to have candid conversations here.

Speaker: 00:17:59

What are some challenges in a local church that's going through growth?

Speaker: 00:18:04

They believe that they've got a call to church, their town or their

Speaker: 00:18:09

area and you know, there are certain ways you could do things that might

Speaker: 00:18:16

be shortcuts or things like that.

Speaker: 00:18:18

talk a little bit about that, that challenge.

Speaker: 00:18:22

Yeah, I mean, I think it comes down to the heart of the leader, and that's,

Speaker: 00:18:30

that's really most important thing.

Speaker: 00:18:33

are we serving God with integrity, with excellence, with honesty is, our,

Speaker: 00:18:39

I can talk about this later, but we founded our company on the, the Fruit

Speaker: 00:18:43

of the Spirit in the Book of Galatians.

Speaker: 00:18:45

And I think if a church is following and growing in the fruit of the spirit going

Speaker: 00:18:51

to help inform those decisions, it's gonna help their motives be pure and their,

Speaker: 00:18:56

You know, a lot of times in the church there's this idea of, you know, church

Speaker: 00:19:00

stealing or, you know, member stealing or taking, taking somebody from this church.

Speaker: 00:19:05

And, you know, that was, that's, that's not a healthy thing.

Speaker: 00:19:09

That's not something that, that I think, sincere churches are ever trying to do.

Speaker: 00:19:14

I think there are, the statistics are overwhelming in terms of the number

Speaker: 00:19:19

of unchurched in our communities.

Speaker: 00:19:22

there are so many who are not connected to a, a faith fellowship in any way.

Speaker: 00:19:28

there's so much opportunity out there and people resonate with

Speaker: 00:19:31

different styles in different, methods and different denominations.

Speaker: 00:19:36

And you know, I think it's important for a church to have the greatest

Speaker: 00:19:40

influence that it can and build as much awareness as possible and say, this is

Speaker: 00:19:45

who we are, this is what we believe, and this is how, this is how we do it.

Speaker: 00:19:48

And if that's interesting to you, you know.

Speaker: 00:19:51

Come and be a part of it, come check it out and see what happens.

Speaker: 00:19:54

So I, you never want growth for growth's sake.

Speaker: 00:19:57

You wanna always have growth for kingdom, for kingdom purposes.

Speaker: 00:20:01

And it's about people to Christ and helping them grow

Speaker: 00:20:06

into fully devoted followers.

Speaker: 00:20:07

And I think if that's your heart and that informs every, that's the lens

Speaker: 00:20:11

that you make decisions through, I think that's gonna keep a church, on track.

Speaker: 00:20:16

one thing that fascinates me and you did a great job in the book, brand for Impact.

Speaker: 00:20:21

I've got it right over here, is the reason I'm glancing over there.

Speaker: 00:20:24

Got it on my Kindle here.

Speaker: 00:20:25

One of the things you did a great job of is you went through some techniques

Speaker: 00:20:30

and all, which was awesome, but you also brought some stories in of real

Speaker: 00:20:34

world leaders that are out doing this.

Speaker: 00:20:37

I, I'll make a statement then I'll let you respond to it.

Speaker: 00:20:39

One of the things I observe, 'cause I work with nonprofits and also work

Speaker: 00:20:44

with for-profit, and my observation is this, in the nonprofit world,

Speaker: 00:20:51

many times leaders struggle.

Speaker: 00:20:54

Yeah, with bringing in what I'll term as Babylonian or worldly techniques, methods,

Speaker: 00:21:00

et cetera, to function and operate and grow their organization in the for-profit

Speaker: 00:21:07

world, what I notice is, is they're operating in the Babylonian system and

Speaker: 00:21:11

they're attempting to lead with faith.

Speaker: 00:21:13

Then, like you mentioned, the gifts of the spirit and things like that.

Speaker: 00:21:18

I'll kind of frame that and just maybe let you respond because

Speaker: 00:21:23

I know you work with both.

Speaker: 00:21:24

What do you see related to that?

Speaker: 00:21:27

Also similar tension or some different things.

Speaker: 00:21:30

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:21:33

You know, I think there are so many faith-driven leaders in the

Speaker: 00:21:37

marketplace who desire and feel a calling do more with their business.

Speaker: 00:21:44

They, there's something inside of them saying, I wish I could share

Speaker: 00:21:47

my faith or express my faith a more profound way through the thing that

Speaker: 00:21:53

I do with the majority of my life.

Speaker: 00:21:56

Right?

Speaker: 00:21:56

We spend so much of our time at work, yet there seems to be this chasm

Speaker: 00:22:02

between their personal life their faith, expression, and then what

Speaker: 00:22:08

they do for a living, their business.

Speaker: 00:22:10

And, know, there are reasons that we uncovered during the research

Speaker: 00:22:13

for why that's true, Yeah.

Speaker: 00:22:17

You know, more often than not, we just saw leaders who were so

Speaker: 00:22:20

hesitant let those two worlds touch.

Speaker: 00:22:26

And so, obviously you interviewed and spoke to a number of them that

Speaker: 00:22:31

are able to merge those together.

Speaker: 00:22:35

What are some things that you observed in those people that

Speaker: 00:22:39

appear to, or are doing it well?

Speaker: 00:22:43

You know, courage is the big one, and I think that's the leaders

Speaker: 00:22:49

who have really done it well have said, this is who we are.

Speaker: 00:22:54

is who I am.

Speaker: 00:22:56

I'm the leader of the organization and this is what I believe and this

Speaker: 00:23:00

is what God's calling me to do with this business, with this company.

Speaker: 00:23:05

if it works, it works.

Speaker: 00:23:06

And if it doesn't, then know, we'll figure something else out.

Speaker: 00:23:10

If I'm going to be in business and I'm going to have a platform,

Speaker: 00:23:14

gonna make sure that God is represented clearly in what I do.

Speaker: 00:23:19

And I think that's the first step is just having the willingness

Speaker: 00:23:23

to really take a stand and say, this is what it's going to be.

Speaker: 00:23:26

we're gonna be unashamed about expressing our faith and the purpose gets us up every

Speaker: 00:23:32

morning and leads us to do what we do.

Speaker: 00:23:35

building widgets with excellence and with integrity.

Speaker: 00:23:39

reason we do it ultimately is to glorify God.

Speaker: 00:23:41

And we're not going to be afraid to say it.

Speaker: 00:23:43

You know, we're, we're gonna close on Sunday and if it hurts our

Speaker: 00:23:46

business, it hurts our business.

Speaker: 00:23:48

and we've, we've all seen how that's worked out for Chick-fil-A.

Speaker: 00:23:52

I'm from Atlanta originally.

Speaker: 00:23:54

I've been to their headquarters and I don't eat a lot of fast food anymore.

Speaker: 00:23:59

Some people might say it's blasphemous not to get you a good old godly

Speaker: 00:24:02

chicken sandwich every once in a while.

Speaker: 00:24:04

I'm not totally sure.

Speaker: 00:24:05

I agree with that.

Speaker: 00:24:06

However, yesterday my wife was out and about, had some errands to run.

Speaker: 00:24:09

I was doing some work and she brought me a 12 pack of nuggets in and

Speaker: 00:24:13

truthfully, they were quite divine.

Speaker: 00:24:15

I enjoyed it thoroughly and true at Kathy.

Speaker: 00:24:18

job.

Speaker: 00:24:18

Kathy spoke at her graduation when she graduated at Georgia

Speaker: 00:24:21

State University a few years ago.

Speaker: 00:24:23

Wow.

Speaker: 00:24:24

So one of the things that's interesting is fascinating to me, is I get to

Speaker: 00:24:28

prepare and study up on, on the leaders and people like you that I talked to.

Speaker: 00:24:34

I read your book this week, brand for Impact.

Speaker: 00:24:37

We're gonna talk more about it here in just a moment.

Speaker: 00:24:39

And I'm also preparing for next week's guest.

Speaker: 00:24:41

I believe that's when it'll fall, it's Ken Gosnell and he works with CEOs that

Speaker: 00:24:47

are working towards being well done.

Speaker: 00:24:49

I mean, not being well done, but at the end of their journey they can say it was

Speaker: 00:24:53

well done and we know what the reference to that scripture is being Well done.

Speaker: 00:24:57

That might've been a, that might've been an interesting slip

Speaker: 00:24:59

of the tongue there, but, but.

Speaker: 00:25:01

But you, you used the word and it came up in his book too.

Speaker: 00:25:06

So it's like rolling around in my head quite a bit.

Speaker: 00:25:08

And it's a word that means quite a bit to me.

Speaker: 00:25:12

And, and it's the word stewardship.

Speaker: 00:25:14

I really see a lot of leaders both in profit and nonprofit that, that

Speaker: 00:25:22

aren't doing well, that aren't getting the message of well done,

Speaker: 00:25:26

that we will talk about next week's episode that are not stewards.

Speaker: 00:25:30

They really perceive themselves as owners of everything in the organization.

Speaker: 00:25:34

But the ones that seem to do well,

Speaker: 00:25:38

they treat their organization more as they're a steward

Speaker: 00:25:41

of it and they don't own it.

Speaker: 00:25:43

And you talk about that a good bit in your book, talk about stewardship.

Speaker: 00:25:47

I.

Speaker: 00:25:48

Hmm.

Speaker: 00:25:49

some tremendous examples out there of, business leaders who have done this well.

Speaker: 00:25:55

And one of the companies that we interviewed, metal Forging

Speaker: 00:26:00

company called Well Deloy.

Speaker: 00:26:02

he was inspired by reading a book called God Owns My Business by Stanley Tam.

Speaker: 00:26:07

It's such a wonderful example of that idea of stewardship, right?

Speaker: 00:26:11

This is not my stuff.

Speaker: 00:26:12

I'm simply the steward of these resources that he's entrusted to me.

Speaker: 00:26:17

And that changes everything.

Speaker: 00:26:18

When you have that mindset, it allows you to hold loosely to,

Speaker: 00:26:22

those things and make decisions not based on fear, but based on faith.

Speaker: 00:26:26

And, you know, that's, tremendously freeing.

Speaker: 00:26:29

and as we know, you can't outgive God.

Speaker: 00:26:33

And these are his resources and he always returns that blessing in multiple ways.

Speaker: 00:26:39

And I think that's something that I hope people get from the

Speaker: 00:26:42

book is this idea of stewardship.

Speaker: 00:26:44

You know, stewardship is, for some people it might be a bit of a churchy

Speaker: 00:26:48

word, and so Justin, if someone's listening in and they're not.

Speaker: 00:26:54

Quite sure what stewardship means, and you address it in your book.

Speaker: 00:26:59

I think you do a great job there and you give great examples, but

Speaker: 00:27:03

if someone were like going, what?

Speaker: 00:27:04

What do you mean by stewardship?

Speaker: 00:27:06

I think you described a little bit, but what do you mean by stewardship?

Speaker: 00:27:09

tell somebody what it really means in your words.

Speaker: 00:27:14

Yeah, it's that idea that we're not the owner, we're simply the steward.

Speaker: 00:27:18

We're simply the caretaker.

Speaker: 00:27:20

God owns it all.

Speaker: 00:27:22

It's all his.

Speaker: 00:27:23

We didn't generate any of this on our own.

Speaker: 00:27:26

this is all from him.

Speaker: 00:27:26

In fact, our very, know, waking up every day with breath in our

Speaker: 00:27:30

lungs, that's a gift from him.

Speaker: 00:27:33

And so really that idea of, of stewardship versus ownership, I think

Speaker: 00:27:37

is, is at the core of your question.

Speaker: 00:27:38

And, and it's really freeing, you know, it's, it's freeing in relationships.

Speaker: 00:27:43

It's freeing in business, it's freeing in parenting, in every way.

Speaker: 00:27:47

This being, being a caretaker.

Speaker: 00:27:50

And doing everything we can to, to steward those gifts well, I think is, is really

Speaker: 00:27:56

the idea that, that we see in scripture.

Speaker: 00:27:58

And, you know, I'm not, I'm just over the 50 mark, so I'm not young anymore.

Speaker: 00:28:05

I like to think I'm still I'm not old either, but I've had enough life behind

Speaker: 00:28:10

me to see that God is so faithful.

Speaker: 00:28:12

And I think that's helpful to have some road in the rear view where you

Speaker: 00:28:16

can say, yeah, this works and this is the way God's created it to be.

Speaker: 00:28:22

I use AI at times to do some descriptions and things like that.

Speaker: 00:28:26

And the word that AI uses over and over again for people like you, like me, who's

Speaker: 00:28:32

10, 11 years older than you is seasoned.

Speaker: 00:28:36

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:28:37

We're seasoned, which I think is a nice way of saying we're older,

Speaker: 00:28:42

mature, or, something like that.

Speaker: 00:28:45

Justin, I am curious 'cause you, I love the fact that y'all interviewed and

Speaker: 00:28:49

you interact with a number of people.

Speaker: 00:28:51

Can you think of any practical, either day to day or just practical

Speaker: 00:28:58

things that leaders do that reflect stewardship versus ownership?

Speaker: 00:29:06

you see it in generosity, you see it in a business setting.

Speaker: 00:29:10

we're talking about this idea that we're stewards, not owners, and the

Speaker: 00:29:15

goal is to grow the company to God's glory and for God's impact your

Speaker: 00:29:20

perspective allows generosity, allows the organization to do so much more.

Speaker: 00:29:26

and to shine their light even brighter because they have a different mindset

Speaker: 00:29:30

about their revenue and their priorities.

Speaker: 00:29:34

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:29:34

I love you mentioned generosity because especially when money

Speaker: 00:29:38

starts being factored in, you can learn a lot about people when all

Speaker: 00:29:43

of a sudden that comes into play.

Speaker: 00:29:46

along the way with your agency, this aspect of brand became important.

Speaker: 00:29:53

Obviously you've written the book brand for impact, and some might say, I'm gonna

Speaker: 00:29:59

give a counter that I may or may not believe, but I'm gonna do it hopefully

Speaker: 00:30:02

to agitate you to get a good response.

Speaker: 00:30:05

Some might say.

Speaker: 00:30:07

That if you're doing it for the Lord or you're doing it for, mission or

Speaker: 00:30:12

whatever, that, you know, what brand isn't that important, how would you

Speaker: 00:30:19

respond if someone says, you know, I'm not concerned about my brand.

Speaker: 00:30:23

Brand isn't that important?

Speaker: 00:30:26

I would strongly disagree with that statement.

Speaker: 00:30:29

you have stirred the hornet's nest.

Speaker: 00:30:33

we live in a noisy world and we're called to share.

Speaker: 00:30:40

Ultimately we're called to share God's love and God's truth

Speaker: 00:30:42

and do it in a winsome way.

Speaker: 00:30:45

with all of the noise, studies, say we have over 10,000 marketing

Speaker: 00:30:49

messages hitting us every day.

Speaker: 00:30:52

How are you ever going to filter all that noise and actually get someone to

Speaker: 00:30:57

listen to what you're trying to say?

Speaker: 00:30:59

having a clarified brand is the most effective way heard.

Speaker: 00:31:06

as Christ's followers, we have a message that needs to be heard.

Speaker: 00:31:09

if people can come in contact with these businesses that are putting God first, and

Speaker: 00:31:14

operating with excellence, those are the businesses that I believe should be heard.

Speaker: 00:31:19

so that's why this book was so important to me to help those organizations

Speaker: 00:31:23

clarify their brand so that they can rise above the commotion, above the

Speaker: 00:31:27

noise, rise above the clutter, and.

Speaker: 00:31:30

Really be known for what they do and ultimately what they believe so that

Speaker: 00:31:35

they can have a greater kingdom impact.

Speaker: 00:31:36

So brand is so important and it's really one of the most cost effective

Speaker: 00:31:43

ways for an organization to finally get an edge on the competition, if you

Speaker: 00:31:47

will, to stand out and to be known.

Speaker: 00:31:51

and it really just comes through consistency and frequency.

Speaker: 00:31:55

And so if you can develop that brand that's unique, and then you're consistent

Speaker: 00:32:00

in your delivery of that brand, that's gonna make such a tremendous

Speaker: 00:32:04

difference for any kind of business

Speaker: 00:32:08

Tell me all the components of a brand and while you're thinking about that,

Speaker: 00:32:12

I'll give you a little bit of context.

Speaker: 00:32:15

We have a title here at our podcast called Seek Go Create that I. It,

Speaker: 00:32:20

that means a great deal to me.

Speaker: 00:32:22

There's an origin story and all that kind of stuff, but I've also

Speaker: 00:32:25

found in the podcast world that listeners don't know what it means.

Speaker: 00:32:31

you know, there's the name, there's obviously the visuals, there's web

Speaker: 00:32:35

presence, there's digital presence, all of those kind of things, I'm sure.

Speaker: 00:32:38

tell me all the components.

Speaker: 00:32:39

What makes up a brand?

Speaker: 00:32:43

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:32:45

at its core, at Grove nine, we, we say a brand is the one idea that people

Speaker: 00:32:49

think of when they think of you.

Speaker: 00:32:51

So it's not your logo, it's not your colors, it's not your

Speaker: 00:32:55

fonts, it's not your website.

Speaker: 00:32:57

It's not your social media presence.

Speaker: 00:33:00

A brand is an idea.

Speaker: 00:33:02

Right.

Speaker: 00:33:02

We talk about, Michelin is such a great example of a consistent brand over time.

Speaker: 00:33:08

Their tagline, because so much is riding on your tires, They've got

Speaker: 00:33:13

the big puffy Michelin man who's, who's carrying, and he's a protector.

Speaker: 00:33:19

you see these ads with dad's putting their, you know, their kids into a

Speaker: 00:33:24

car, sending them off to college.

Speaker: 00:33:26

putting Michelins on their, on that car because they love their kids.

Speaker: 00:33:30

And this, the brand is safety.

Speaker: 00:33:33

And over the past a hundred years, everything Michelin

Speaker: 00:33:36

has done has been consistently line with that idea of safety.

Speaker: 00:33:40

So now when you buy a minivan for your family, you're automatically

Speaker: 00:33:45

going to consider putting Michelins on your car even though they're

Speaker: 00:33:48

more expensive than another tire.

Speaker: 00:33:50

They've built that strong, clear brand of safety and whether it's true, we

Speaker: 00:33:56

talk about the law of perception.

Speaker: 00:33:58

There may be other products that are just as good or better than a

Speaker: 00:34:00

Michelin tire, but the perception is that is a safe tire and that tire will

Speaker: 00:34:05

help you take care of your family.

Speaker: 00:34:07

the power of a brand.

Speaker: 00:34:08

The brand is not the logo, it's not the words, it's not the shoe and the wing for

Speaker: 00:34:12

Goodyear, it's not the swoosh for Nike.

Speaker: 00:34:15

It's the idea behind all of those things.

Speaker: 00:34:19

S So in all the work that you do and also the research you've done, what are

Speaker: 00:34:25

two or three of the biggest mistakes you see people make related to their brand?

Speaker: 00:34:31

Well, I talked about consistency earlier and I think one of the big

Speaker: 00:34:35

mistakes is, is being inconsistent with the delivery of your brand.

Speaker: 00:34:40

Right?

Speaker: 00:34:40

So sometimes you're talking about price, and sometimes you're talking

Speaker: 00:34:43

about quality and sometimes you're talking about other features.

Speaker: 00:34:47

And if you're not consistently delivering one message again, 10,000

Speaker: 00:34:52

messages hitting us every day, you're never going to stand out.

Speaker: 00:34:56

There's a reason, you know, research says that we need to hear, see,

Speaker: 00:35:00

and hear something seven to 12 times before it actually sticks.

Speaker: 00:35:04

So consistency is really important when it comes to building a brand

Speaker: 00:35:08

that stands out and gets attention.

Speaker: 00:35:10

And really the second one is just taking the time to clarify your brand.

Speaker: 00:35:16

When they think of your podcast, what do you want them to think of?

Speaker: 00:35:20

personal brands are the same.

Speaker: 00:35:22

When they think of you, do you want someone to think of?

Speaker: 00:35:25

And if you don't clarify that brand, and then deliver it consistently.

Speaker: 00:35:30

People are gonna make up whatever idea, whatever brand they want to

Speaker: 00:35:34

about your organization, or you as a person based on very little data.

Speaker: 00:35:40

And so it's our job to develop that brand that's gonna be unique, and we're

Speaker: 00:35:45

gonna deliver that brand in a creative, effective way, consistently over time.

Speaker: 00:35:50

Right.

Speaker: 00:35:51

So I'm gonna put you on the spot just a little bit here.

Speaker: 00:35:54

I know probably being a guest here, you probably glanced at a few things

Speaker: 00:36:01

of our podcast and possibly me

Speaker: 00:36:07

hit me, hit me hard here, Justin, what are some things that you

Speaker: 00:36:11

went Oh, doing okay with that?

Speaker: 00:36:14

And then, Ooh, not so good with that.

Speaker: 00:36:17

Go ahead man.

Speaker: 00:36:17

I'm ready for it.

Speaker: 00:36:18

Give, give me some feedback.

Speaker: 00:36:22

That's really unfair.

Speaker: 00:36:23

I would love to spend time with you talking about this.

Speaker: 00:36:27

I think visually you've been pretty consistent with

Speaker: 00:36:30

the delivery of your brand.

Speaker: 00:36:32

I think that there's, there definitely are some things you're

Speaker: 00:36:35

doing well, and consistency I think is pretty strong as well.

Speaker: 00:36:39

I think that, you know, that idea of what does, what does the, what

Speaker: 00:36:44

does the organization really do best and what do you want people

Speaker: 00:36:50

to think of when they think of you?

Speaker: 00:36:52

Because you offer, uh, you know, a, a wide array of services, um, to people.

Speaker: 00:36:58

And even your podcast has, so many interesting guests from,

Speaker: 00:37:02

from all these different fields.

Speaker: 00:37:03

But.

Speaker: 00:37:04

What's the thread?

Speaker: 00:37:05

What's the one thing that you want people to get?

Speaker: 00:37:07

Like, if I give an hour of my time, this is what I know I'm gonna get in return.

Speaker: 00:37:13

And I think that's, that's really the important thing is

Speaker: 00:37:15

to, to put a, put a word to it.

Speaker: 00:37:18

You know, Coca-Cola, their brand for, for, has been happiness and they've

Speaker: 00:37:23

committed to say that when people think of drinking a Coke, they're going to

Speaker: 00:37:26

think of smiling and joy and happiness.

Speaker: 00:37:31

And everything you've seen has been people enjoying the time with

Speaker: 00:37:36

each other, drinking Coca-Cola.

Speaker: 00:37:38

And I don't know if, if that beverage actually brings joy to a person,

Speaker: 00:37:43

scientifically or physically, but from a branding perspective, they've

Speaker: 00:37:46

done a really good job of, of telling us that that's the, that's

Speaker: 00:37:50

the result we can expect when we.

Speaker: 00:37:53

crack open a Coke.

Speaker: 00:37:54

So that's, that's really my, my best advice is really figure out what

Speaker: 00:38:00

that one idea is, and then that you can infuse that into everything.

Speaker: 00:38:06

there's a, there's an app on my phone that I love.

Speaker: 00:38:08

It's called Evernote.

Speaker: 00:38:11

in a perfect world, you develop this brand idea before you actually

Speaker: 00:38:15

even name your company or your podcast, uh, or your nonprofit.

Speaker: 00:38:20

And then you can infuse that brand into the name and into the logo and into the

Speaker: 00:38:24

website and into everything that you do.

Speaker: 00:38:27

Um, so Evernote, it says what it does, it's a place for your notes,

Speaker: 00:38:33

they're going to be there forever.

Speaker: 00:38:35

It's, it's brilliant.

Speaker: 00:38:37

The logo is an elephant with a little dog ear, like a page.

Speaker: 00:38:41

is it an elephant?

Speaker: 00:38:42

Because elephants never forget.

Speaker: 00:38:45

So everything about the brand says longevity and permanency and safety, and

Speaker: 00:38:51

just a brilliant example of how all the elements of a brand can come together

Speaker: 00:38:56

in a, in a very straight line and create that idea that this is the best place to,

Speaker: 00:39:01

to put your notes, to put your thoughts.

Speaker: 00:39:03

That's good.

Speaker: 00:39:04

I, when, when you were talking about Coca-Cola, I'm from Atlanta,

Speaker: 00:39:06

so I, I'm fully aware of this.

Speaker: 00:39:09

I'm pretty sure that the happiness came from when they were

Speaker: 00:39:12

putting cocaine in those drinks.

Speaker: 00:39:16

Maybe not.

Speaker: 00:39:17

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:39:18

You know, everybody was, boy, these people are, are, are happy now.

Speaker: 00:39:22

It's probably just the sugar and other stuff.

Speaker: 00:39:24

I used to love having me a good old Coca-Cola about once or twice

Speaker: 00:39:28

a day, and I cut that out a few years before I was your age.

Speaker: 00:39:32

It might've been one of the best things I did.

Speaker: 00:39:34

As much as I love Coca-Cola, I'm not sure that it's healthy, healthy for us.

Speaker: 00:39:39

You know, one of the things, and I appreciate the feedback by the way,

Speaker: 00:39:42

and I know I did put you on the spot and you probably didn't want to just

Speaker: 00:39:45

slice and dice me right here, you know, being a, being a guest, but one of the

Speaker: 00:39:50

things, and, and I don't know if this is something I'm sort of cynical about or

Speaker: 00:39:54

whatever, but one of the things that I.

Speaker: 00:39:57

Observe is that we have quite the celebrity culture in the

Speaker: 00:40:02

world that we're in today.

Speaker: 00:40:05

And I observe, and I don't know if this is a correct or incorrect observation, that

Speaker: 00:40:11

there, there seem to be different rules for people that have a celebrity brand.

Speaker: 00:40:19

And so I'd love just if you've got thoughts or anything because you

Speaker: 00:40:24

know there, there's what I'd call an average Joe business guy building

Speaker: 00:40:29

it from the ground up or whatever.

Speaker: 00:40:30

And then there's someone who's already famous known as if they can almost

Speaker: 00:40:37

do anything without some of the principles that we're talking about.

Speaker: 00:40:41

So.

Speaker: 00:40:42

Does that make any sense?

Speaker: 00:40:43

I guess, I guess just speak to a little bit of personal and or celebrity

Speaker: 00:40:48

branding that we see quite a bit.

Speaker: 00:40:52

If anyone jumps on any social media platform.

Speaker: 00:40:57

Yeah, I actually, interestingly, I think that, that we're seeing a shift

Speaker: 00:41:03

where celebrity brands almost have more freedom to express their faith, right?

Speaker: 00:41:09

Steph Curry has bible verse on his shoe.

Speaker: 00:41:13

Um, almost every, almost every, many of the post post championship

Speaker: 00:41:20

interviews that we watch athletes give.

Speaker: 00:41:23

give glory to God first and foremost.

Speaker: 00:41:25

You know, they're not ashamed to put their faith out there.

Speaker: 00:41:27

Even if it were to hurt their personal brand, which it

Speaker: 00:41:30

doesn't, it enhances their brand.

Speaker: 00:41:32

It, it draws me to certain quarterbacks in the NFL because

Speaker: 00:41:36

I know that they're men of faith.

Speaker: 00:41:39

Um, they're, you know, they're not ashamed to say Jesus won, right?

Speaker: 00:41:44

It's, it's on the t-shirt.

Speaker: 00:41:46

It's just, I think that's, that's really been interesting to me to see so many

Speaker: 00:41:51

celebrities use their platform and their celebrity to express their faith, and

Speaker: 00:41:56

I think the business world, the average Joe can take a, take a cue from that

Speaker: 00:42:00

and say, these guys with so much at stake are willing to share their faith

Speaker: 00:42:06

in a very public way, am, why am I so hesitant to do that in my business?

Speaker: 00:42:13

So let's shift, we got a few minutes left here and I want to talk, uh,

Speaker: 00:42:16

more about, about your book, but I also want to give maybe some practical

Speaker: 00:42:21

things that some people listening in.

Speaker: 00:42:23

I know that we have listeners that are operating for profit.

Speaker: 00:42:28

And then I also know we have ministry people that are

Speaker: 00:42:31

operating in the nonprofit.

Speaker: 00:42:32

Some actually have both too.

Speaker: 00:42:34

By the way.

Speaker: 00:42:35

What are some things that you can give, and I know get the book is

Speaker: 00:42:38

the best tip, but, but what are a few tips you can give to either both

Speaker: 00:42:44

categories together or if you want to split 'em out, uh, that's fine too.

Speaker: 00:42:48

But, uh, give some tips on your brand for both the for-profit and non-profit

Speaker: 00:42:54

business or organization leader.

Speaker: 00:42:58

I think the most important tip, this is where we start with all of

Speaker: 00:43:00

our organizations that we serve.

Speaker: 00:43:03

We want to help them clarify their brand, We, we develop intentional.

Speaker: 00:43:09

We have an intentional research and strategic process to help them

Speaker: 00:43:12

decide what that idea should be.

Speaker: 00:43:15

You don't just wanna pick it out of the air, you want it to be strategic.

Speaker: 00:43:18

It should be a promise that you can keep true to who you are.

Speaker: 00:43:22

And it should also be as unique among your competition as possible, right?

Speaker: 00:43:28

It's less expensive and more effective to have a unique brand

Speaker: 00:43:32

than it is to compete with 10 other organizations for that same idea.

Speaker: 00:43:37

When you're doing that, you just really need to outs spind them or

Speaker: 00:43:40

be so creative that people think of you, um, instead of the competition.

Speaker: 00:43:45

So the most important thing is to take the time, do the research, really understand

Speaker: 00:43:52

what your brand idea should be, what your brand platform should be, and then

Speaker: 00:43:57

start to build everything on top of that.

Speaker: 00:43:59

So where we start with 90% of the clients that we serve, we.

Speaker: 00:44:05

We almost won't execute creative without doing that, that

Speaker: 00:44:09

foundational work on the front end.

Speaker: 00:44:10

And that's really, really very important.

Speaker: 00:44:13

Do you have, do you have, I guess, companies or organizations come to you and

Speaker: 00:44:18

say something to the effect of, Hey, we want you to do some Facebook stuff for us,

Speaker: 00:44:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker: 00:44:27

which is not necessarily strategic.

Speaker: 00:44:30

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:44:30

right?

Speaker: 00:44:31

Um.

Speaker: 00:44:32

can help you, we can help you spend your money, but if you want to be a good

Speaker: 00:44:36

steward of those resources, you should do this first, you should do the homework.

Speaker: 00:44:41

Go through the framework and clarify your brand.

Speaker: 00:44:45

Come up with, with, uh, measurable specific objectives based on that

Speaker: 00:44:52

brand, and then decide which strategies make most sense for your business.

Speaker: 00:44:56

may not be Facebook stuff, it may be something else.

Speaker: 00:45:00

Right Justin.

Speaker: 00:45:01

What I do, I work with, uh, leadership teams and work on strategy and being

Speaker: 00:45:06

strategic, and my observation is that many businesses that we would term

Speaker: 00:45:14

successful have, in many ways, I don't wanna say they've stumbled onto that

Speaker: 00:45:21

success, but that success has evolved.

Speaker: 00:45:24

It hasn't been necessarily intentional.

Speaker: 00:45:27

I hate to say that they got lucky.

Speaker: 00:45:29

There are some that have, and, and so one of the things I attempt to

Speaker: 00:45:34

do is work with them and being more proactive as opposed to reactive,

Speaker: 00:45:37

which involves a lot of strategy.

Speaker: 00:45:39

I'm curious how many organizations, we'll call it, not just businesses,

Speaker: 00:45:44

but organizations, how many organizations come to you?

Speaker: 00:45:48

And, uh, and you just sort of scratch your head and say, Hmm, they

Speaker: 00:45:53

don't really know who they are, or they really don't have strategy.

Speaker: 00:45:58

And I don't know if it's a percentage or a number of that, so, but, but

Speaker: 00:46:04

do, do you see that very often?

Speaker: 00:46:07

All the time.

Speaker: 00:46:09

In fact, that's more common than not.

Speaker: 00:46:13

Does does it make you go, huh?

Speaker: 00:46:16

How did they get to this level of success?

Speaker: 00:46:21

Yeah, it really does.

Speaker: 00:46:22

And you know, it's, you've seen it many times working with organizations,

Speaker: 00:46:27

especially small to midsize organizations.

Speaker: 00:46:30

They, they saw a need in the marketplace.

Speaker: 00:46:33

They developed a product or service to meet that need and,

Speaker: 00:46:36

and they just continued to grow.

Speaker: 00:46:38

And they really never did the work of building a foundation that's, that's

Speaker: 00:46:42

gonna take them to the next level.

Speaker: 00:46:44

So they're always going to have incremental growth, but they're not

Speaker: 00:46:48

gonna have that more significant growth.

Speaker: 00:46:51

And more importantly, the, we call it the triple bottom line, the

Speaker: 00:46:55

economic, social, and spiritual impact that their business or their

Speaker: 00:46:59

organization could have they do that.

Speaker: 00:47:02

Um.

Speaker: 00:47:03

foundational work, that strategy work.

Speaker: 00:47:05

I notice a lot that they just have a tremendous work ethic,

Speaker: 00:47:08

so they could grind it out.

Speaker: 00:47:10

They may have been at the right place at the right time, or they may have saw a

Speaker: 00:47:14

need and they, you know, met that need, but yet they get to a place where they

Speaker: 00:47:20

are looking to do something different.

Speaker: 00:47:23

The, the word you use, and I've got your book up here again, I'll hold

Speaker: 00:47:26

it up so people that are watching the video can see brand for impact.

Speaker: 00:47:30

You've got two big words in this book title.

Speaker: 00:47:33

I'm gonna read, I wanna read to the, uh, subtitle, A Proven blueprint

Speaker: 00:47:38

to help faith-driven leaders clarify their brand, grow their

Speaker: 00:47:42

revenue, and make a greater impact.

Speaker: 00:47:45

There's a lot in that subtitle that's really good, but, uh, the word brand

Speaker: 00:47:49

and impact, those are two big words.

Speaker: 00:47:53

Talk about the word impact, because I, I see it thrown around quite a bit.

Speaker: 00:47:58

People say, oh, I wanna make an impact.

Speaker: 00:48:00

Uh, I interview a lot of people here.

Speaker: 00:48:02

I'm just, success to me is making an impact and things like that.

Speaker: 00:48:06

And, um, obviously you believe it's a big word because it's included in your title.

Speaker: 00:48:10

So talk about impact and what that means to you.

Speaker: 00:48:15

Yeah, it's, you're right, it has become a bit of a buzzword, um,

Speaker: 00:48:20

lately, but impact is, is resonance.

Speaker: 00:48:25

It's, um.

Speaker: 00:48:28

Changing things in a, in a way that resonates and, and has, you know, it

Speaker: 00:48:35

starts, it starts small, but it has a tremendous influence, a tremendous

Speaker: 00:48:39

impact as it resonates outward.

Speaker: 00:48:42

And, you know, that's really why we talk about, you know, Simon Sinek

Speaker: 00:48:47

has the golden circle, and it's the what, the how, and the why.

Speaker: 00:48:51

And most organizations, um, you know, the outside of the

Speaker: 00:48:55

bullseye is the what you do.

Speaker: 00:48:58

Many organizations are good at talking about what they do, then

Speaker: 00:49:01

how you do it, that starts to get a little more interesting and

Speaker: 00:49:04

maybe starts to set you apart.

Speaker: 00:49:05

But there may be a lot of people who do it the way you do it, but

Speaker: 00:49:08

the why is in the bullseye for him.

Speaker: 00:49:10

And that's, that's the emotional connection that

Speaker: 00:49:14

you make with your customers.

Speaker: 00:49:15

That's what gets you up in the morning.

Speaker: 00:49:17

And when people connect with that, they resonate with that.

Speaker: 00:49:20

That's really what's gonna create brand loyalty.

Speaker: 00:49:22

We just flipped his circle upside down and said.

Speaker: 00:49:26

put the what in the middle?

Speaker: 00:49:27

Let's put the how on the, out on the next circle, and then let's put the

Speaker: 00:49:30

why in the biggest circle, and then we're gonna radiate out from there.

Speaker: 00:49:34

Because the why makes the most difference.

Speaker: 00:49:37

and when people connect with your why, especially from a faith perspective,

Speaker: 00:49:41

about, you know, whether, whether Chick-fil-A has the best chicken sandwich

Speaker: 00:49:47

or not, that that may be up for debate.

Speaker: 00:49:49

I don't know.

Speaker: 00:49:50

But the truth is that people of faith to support the organization of

Speaker: 00:49:57

what it stands for and because their values and beliefs align with the

Speaker: 00:50:01

organization's values and beliefs.

Speaker: 00:50:03

that's, that's tremendously powerful.

Speaker: 00:50:06

And so I think when an organization can, can, uh, understand how to

Speaker: 00:50:12

incorporate their faith and their belief into their brand in a way that's not.

Speaker: 00:50:17

Cheesy, it's not salesy, it's not, um, disingenuine, but in a way that's,

Speaker: 00:50:23

that's really genuine and that's creative and that's interesting.

Speaker: 00:50:28

That's when people say, I love that I, that connects to my soul that that's

Speaker: 00:50:33

something that I want to be a part of.

Speaker: 00:50:35

whether, you know, whether those socks are better than these socks, I believe in the

Speaker: 00:50:41

story behind these socks, and I believe in that everyone should have a pair of socks.

Speaker: 00:50:46

And, and I, and I love that.

Speaker: 00:50:48

And so I'm going to pay more for your product.

Speaker: 00:50:51

that's impact, right?

Speaker: 00:50:53

That's making a difference the world.

Speaker: 00:50:58

And I think that's such a cool thing that we have the opportunity to do through

Speaker: 00:51:02

the, the arena of business and nonprofit is, is have this tremendous impact today

Speaker: 00:51:08

and obviously ultimately for eternity.

Speaker: 00:51:11

That's, that's our, that's our bottom line.

Speaker: 00:51:14

That's why we do what we do.

Speaker: 00:51:15

And.

Speaker: 00:51:16

know, we're called to, we're called, uh, for the great commission right.

Speaker: 00:51:20

To, to make disciples.

Speaker: 00:51:22

And that's ultimately, business is such a great way to do that.

Speaker: 00:51:27

And I think so many people are missing out on the opportunity to, to have more impact

Speaker: 00:51:32

and have more influence, um, and, and more fully fulfill the great commission

Speaker: 00:51:37

in their lives and, and in their work.

Speaker: 00:51:40

At your, at your agency?

Speaker: 00:51:42

I, I believe, if I'm understanding it correctly, you

Speaker: 00:51:44

could correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker: 00:51:46

Y y'all obviously help people with the clarity and their purpose and things

Speaker: 00:51:52

like that, but I think you also do what I would call some of the granular, um,

Speaker: 00:51:58

tactical things, website design and, and campaigns and things like that.

Speaker: 00:52:05

I, is there one of those that you enjoy more than the other

Speaker: 00:52:09

at this stage of your career?

Speaker: 00:52:12

It's a great question.

Speaker: 00:52:13

No one's ever asked me that

Speaker: 00:52:17

It is not a trick question and no one's listened to.

Speaker: 00:52:19

Oh yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:19

Justin just said he hates doing websites.

Speaker: 00:52:21

He just wants to do clarity with people.

Speaker: 00:52:23

No, no.

Speaker: 00:52:23

I mean, but, but yeah.

Speaker: 00:52:24

I'm just curious because we do evolve and, and so I'm just curious because

Speaker: 00:52:32

the book really spoke more of the clarity message than the application

Speaker: 00:52:42

message, so that's, that's why I was wondering which one do you really,

Speaker: 00:52:47

which one speaks to you more now?

Speaker: 00:52:50

that's a great question.

Speaker: 00:52:51

The reason it's challenging is because once you do the clarity, you get to that

Speaker: 00:52:58

in all of the mediums, in the website, in the logo, in the social media, the

Speaker: 00:53:04

email marketing, um, in the billboards.

Speaker: 00:53:08

In this, in the public relations, in the swag, in the signage.

Speaker: 00:53:13

Like it, it's everywhere.

Speaker: 00:53:14

And so that first piece, that fundamental, um, brand clarification

Speaker: 00:53:19

and that strategy that's uh, pivotal to everything else being effective.

Speaker: 00:53:23

But I would say if I had to pick one, you know, we, we build identities, we

Speaker: 00:53:29

create logos for organizations, and the logo is, is, you know, you talked

Speaker: 00:53:34

about the pecking order earlier.

Speaker: 00:53:36

logo is pretty high up in the pecking order when it comes to

Speaker: 00:53:39

the thing that influences, um, the other visual elements of a brand.

Speaker: 00:53:44

So that designing logos, that, again, they don't just look good, but they

Speaker: 00:53:52

have criteria for why they work.

Speaker: 00:53:56

They're on brand.

Speaker: 00:53:58

Therefore, they're going to be so much more effective than just simply,

Speaker: 00:54:02

hey, the founder loves, you know.

Speaker: 00:54:07

Golden retrievers.

Speaker: 00:54:08

And so we, we knew we had golden retriever in the logo.

Speaker: 00:54:11

Like, what, why, you know, what does that have to do with anything?

Speaker: 00:54:15

the business initials, right?

Speaker: 00:54:18

uh, having, having two letters creatively joined together in the name

Speaker: 00:54:22

of the, of, of a logo is, is fine and interesting, but it could be so much more.

Speaker: 00:54:30

And I think that's, we, I get pretty excited about designing logos that really

Speaker: 00:54:34

express the brand platform, um, in a powerful, um, and, and effective way.

Speaker: 00:54:39

You know, you look at Goodyear, Goodyear Tires, their brand is really

Speaker: 00:54:43

about performance and speed, right?

Speaker: 00:54:45

And they've got the, this, the running shoe with the wing, and it's, it's

Speaker: 00:54:49

this idea of speed and performance.

Speaker: 00:54:53

And that's, that's powerful, right?

Speaker: 00:54:56

It's so much more powerful than maybe just a, a g and a y put

Speaker: 00:55:00

together in, in an interesting way.

Speaker: 00:55:02

So I think.

Speaker: 00:55:03

Seeing and there's lots of research you can do on hidden meanings and logos,

Speaker: 00:55:07

and sometimes it's a little too subtle and people don't actually get it.

Speaker: 00:55:10

But Amazon has the smile and it goes from A to Z and it says, we do everything

Speaker: 00:55:16

from A to Z and we're gonna give you really excellent customer service that's

Speaker: 00:55:20

gonna make you happy at the same time.

Speaker: 00:55:23

so I think there's designing an identity and a logo that that

Speaker: 00:55:26

incorporates the brand is really fun.

Speaker: 00:55:29

One thing that came to me, I was smiling, maybe not chuckling,

Speaker: 00:55:33

but I see people often.

Speaker: 00:55:36

That our newer business maybe, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:55:39

I actually see some more experience that they feel very strongly about putting

Speaker: 00:55:44

LLC or ink or, and you know, I'm, I'm an, I've got an LLC now, so I need to

Speaker: 00:55:51

put it, which I'm not sure, we don't need to go into that discussion, but my,

Speaker: 00:55:56

the thing that came to me earlier when you were speaking is that, my guess is

Speaker: 00:56:00

that someone has that clarity, then the rest it is, I don't wanna say it's easy,

Speaker: 00:56:07

but maybe it's simpler or it is easier.

Speaker: 00:56:10

I mean, would that be accurate?

Speaker: 00:56:11

Yeah, the decision making process is much easier, It goes from being

Speaker: 00:56:17

subjective to being objective.

Speaker: 00:56:20

now we have actual data informing the decisions that we make.

Speaker: 00:56:25

And it's not, don't just have to take a vote and see which,

Speaker: 00:56:28

which logo everyone likes best.

Speaker: 00:56:30

We can actually say these, these three options are all on brand, on target.

Speaker: 00:56:36

They're going to be effective for you.

Speaker: 00:56:38

And now we can let our preferences take over and say, Hey, we, we

Speaker: 00:56:41

love the way this one looks, but they all meet the criteria.

Speaker: 00:56:45

We wouldn't put it in front of a client, as an option if

Speaker: 00:56:47

it didn't meet the criteria.

Speaker: 00:56:49

Justin, you say that the book is to help faith-driven leaders

Speaker: 00:56:53

in the, uh, tagline here.

Speaker: 00:56:55

I've used that term faith-driven leaders before.

Speaker: 00:56:58

Sometimes I wonder if people really know what that means.

Speaker: 00:57:02

How do you define faith-driven leaders?

Speaker: 00:57:07

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:57:07

It's someone, it's a person of, of faith, um, who has, has, you know, we talk about

Speaker: 00:57:15

it as, as a Christ follower, someone who lives by the great commandment and

Speaker: 00:57:20

the great commission, and they desire to, to live those things out in their

Speaker: 00:57:25

family and their business and their life.

Speaker: 00:57:27

And so, that's, that drives our personal core values and the way we act and, and

Speaker: 00:57:35

the content of our character the idea.

Speaker: 00:57:39

the book is to challenge and equip them to do that in their business and their

Speaker: 00:57:43

organization as well, and to give some really, really cool, really practical

Speaker: 00:57:47

examples of other businesses who have been really successful in doing that.

Speaker: 00:57:51

Very same thing.

Speaker: 00:57:52

Justin, go ahead and let people know how they can connect with you

Speaker: 00:57:56

at Grove nine or get the book and go ahead while you're doing it.

Speaker: 00:58:01

Tell people.

Speaker: 00:58:03

Who should probably reach out to you?

Speaker: 00:58:05

Let's just say someone's listening in.

Speaker: 00:58:07

They've, some of the things you've said resonate with them

Speaker: 00:58:10

and they might want to connect.

Speaker: 00:58:12

Go ahead and tell 'em who, who should, who should reach out to you

Speaker: 00:58:19

and give all your information so that they know where to do that.

Speaker: 00:58:23

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:58:23

Thanks Tim.

Speaker: 00:58:25

organizations that desire to develop that triple bottom line to have

Speaker: 00:58:31

economic, social, and spiritual flourishing within their organization.

Speaker: 00:58:35

Uh, within, if it's a nonprofit within their community, within the people that

Speaker: 00:58:39

they serve, if they wanna make a greater impact, if they wanna grow, if they wanna

Speaker: 00:58:43

reach more people with the products and services, um, that they offer, that's

Speaker: 00:58:49

really who should reach out to us.

Speaker: 00:58:52

we, we say if you have a purpose than just profit, probably

Speaker: 00:58:57

a good fit to work together.

Speaker: 00:58:59

Um, and, you know, ours is, our, our values revolve really

Speaker: 00:59:03

around those kingdom purposes.

Speaker: 00:59:05

Um, and that's, that's really a great fit for us.

Speaker: 00:59:09

And I think that that synergy between the shared values really

Speaker: 00:59:16

creates, um, an advantage.

Speaker: 00:59:18

And, uh, it helps, it helps us help those organizations.

Speaker: 00:59:26

have that shared foundation, we have that shared purpose, we have that connection,

Speaker: 00:59:29

and that's part of our brand, right?

Speaker: 00:59:32

That's we named our company Grove Nine.

Speaker: 00:59:36

fruit grows in a grove and the fruit of the spirit, there are nine of them.

Speaker: 00:59:40

And we thought first one is love.

Speaker: 00:59:43

So let's make our logo the shape of a heart.

Speaker: 00:59:45

And we were able to incorporate the G and the nine into the, the shape of the heart.

Speaker: 00:59:49

And, you know, it lets us tell our story.

Speaker: 00:59:51

You know, let's just say this is important to us.

Speaker: 00:59:52

And if your organization values those same things, then let's have a conversation.

Speaker: 00:59:58

We think we can, help you do more good in the world, um, based on,

Speaker: 01:00:03

based on that shared connection.

Speaker: 01:00:06

Um, our website is grove nine.com, G-R-O-V-E, number nine.com.

Speaker: 01:00:11

website is justin eklund.com.

Speaker: 01:00:13

It's J-U-S-T-I-N-E-K.

Speaker: 01:00:18

You can connect with me at either of those places.

Speaker: 01:00:21

You can buy the book on Amazon.

Speaker: 01:00:23

I really didn't write the book to sell books.

Speaker: 01:00:26

I wrote the book to challenge and equip these faith-driven leaders and

Speaker: 01:00:30

organizations to a greater impact, um, through their business and see those

Speaker: 01:00:36

three types of flourishing, right?

Speaker: 01:00:38

The economic, the social, and the spiritual.

Speaker: 01:00:41

I think that that's, that's what God's called me to do, to help faith-driven

Speaker: 01:00:46

leaders make a greater impact.

Speaker: 01:00:47

And I think, I pray that this book will really be helpful in that.

Speaker: 01:00:52

I think I told you that I read it and got it on Kindle here, and, uh, I enjoyed it.

Speaker: 01:00:57

It's a good read.

Speaker: 01:00:58

It's not a complicated read, which I think is good and healthy for a lot of leaders

Speaker: 01:01:03

in today's world, and I love the stories you're interspersed throughout of what

Speaker: 01:01:07

I would term and I think you did too.

Speaker: 01:01:09

They're faith-driven leaders.

Speaker: 01:01:12

Justin, did I miss anything?

Speaker: 01:01:14

We're buttoning up against our time here, but is there anything else you

Speaker: 01:01:17

just wanted to say or share at all before we wrap up and close it down?

Speaker: 01:01:23

I just wanna thank you for the opportunity to be here and

Speaker: 01:01:26

for what you do consistently.

Speaker: 01:01:27

I think the faithfulness in your, your podcast and just the work that goes on

Speaker: 01:01:32

behind the scenes to, to really help organizations bring their, their faith and

Speaker: 01:01:38

their work together is so important and so very grateful that you're doing this work.

Speaker: 01:01:43

And, it's been a pleasure to, to be on the podcast and just hopefully share

Speaker: 01:01:48

a little bit of what, what we do.

Speaker: 01:01:49

I think the uniqueness of, of Brand for Impact and what we do at Grove

Speaker: 01:01:53

Nine is that we take this very, we've taken this very popular praise the

Speaker: 01:01:59

Lord, this idea of faith and work.

Speaker: 01:02:01

Is gaining momentum, right?

Speaker: 01:02:04

There are organizations that we just see this tremendous growth in this.

Speaker: 01:02:08

People are saying, yeah, this, this is important.

Speaker: 01:02:11

We wanna do this and look at all these other business

Speaker: 01:02:13

leaders who are doing it also.

Speaker: 01:02:15

so I think our agency and, and this book really brings that into the

Speaker: 01:02:19

idea of marketing and branding, that hasn't been, um, the idea many, many

Speaker: 01:02:26

faith-driven leaders are saying, I, I can do this in my business.

Speaker: 01:02:30

And we're saying, here's how you do it in your marketing.

Speaker: 01:02:33

it helps with that, that you brought up earlier, which is the

Speaker: 01:02:35

courage helps build confidence so that people can go out and do it.

Speaker: 01:02:41

Justin Eklund, thanks for joining us.

Speaker: 01:02:42

The book is Brand for Impact.

Speaker: 01:02:45

I'm gonna read this tagline again.

Speaker: 01:02:46

really good.

Speaker: 01:02:47

A proven blueprint to help faith-driven leaders, clarify their brand, grow their

Speaker: 01:02:51

revenue, and make a greater impact.

Speaker: 01:02:54

Get that book, it'll be helpful for you.

Speaker: 01:02:56

Thanks again, Justin, for joining us.

Speaker: 01:02:58

We've got new episodes here at Seat.

Speaker: 01:03:00

Go create.

Speaker: 01:03:01

Every Monday, like I mentioned earlier, I believe next week's episode with

Speaker: 01:03:05

Ken Gosnell is gonna be a great partner episode to this one because

Speaker: 01:03:10

there's stewardship conversation, there's how to do business and how

Speaker: 01:03:14

to be a steward in the marketplace.

Speaker: 01:03:16

So make sure you're listing in subscribe, leave us reviews, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker: 01:03:20

So appreciate you being here.

Speaker: 01:03:22

We'll see you next week on Seek Go Create.