full

Discovering Purpose Beyond Profit: Insights from Brett Johnson on Faith, Work, and Mission

Do you ever wonder how to integrate your faith, purpose, and success in the business world? In this episode of Seek Go Create, we dive into an insightful conversation with Brett Johnson, a seasoned marketplace veteran and innovator, as he shares his journey of merging the spiritual and the practical in business. Join us as Brett reveals the importance of standing firm, the concept of success as a consequence of obedience, and his mission to inspire societal transformation through purpose-driven businesses. If you're seeking practical wisdom on integrating faith and success in the marketplace, this episode is a must-listen!

"Boldness is not shrinking back in times of change and pressure." - Brett Johnson

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

Brett Johnson is a seasoned marketplace veteran, thought leader, and innovator with a focus on redefining the purpose of businesses beyond the bottom line. His work involves guiding corporations toward a greater purpose, repurposing businesses, and seeking to bring about societal transformation. With a passion for abolishing dichotomy, integrating different types of capital, and inspiring multigenerational households, Brett is dedicated to unlocking everyday people and mobilizing marketplace individuals to create a positive societal impact.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Gain insight into balancing career, mission work, and church responsibilities, and discover the link between success and obedience from a seasoned marketplace veteran.

2. Explore the challenges of integrating faith and business, and learn about the cultural differences and challenges faced by pastors with side hustles in different countries.

3. Discover practical advice on identifying personal success, the importance of purpose in business, and the impact of societal transformation from a thought leader redefining the purpose of businesses.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Website: brettjohnson.biz - Provides resources, podcasts, and classes focused on kingdom business principles.

Action Steps:

1. Embrace an Eternal Mindset: Seek to understand and cultivate an eternal perspective rather than focusing solely on short-term gains or success. Identify and implement daily assignments within the kingdom of God, aligning actions with eternal purpose.

2. Pursue Learning and Community: Engage in continuous education to understand God's business model and principles. Seek like-minded community support for encouragement, accountability, and knowledge sharing in integrating faith and business.

3. Mobilize Truth: Be prepared to act and engage with the world rather than passively observing from a distance. Focus on deploying truth in daily practices and embrace a call to be proactive in spreading positive societal impact.

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🔹 Unlock Your Potential Today!

  • 🎙 Coaching with Tim: Elevate your leadership and align your work with your faith. Learn More
  • 📚 "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined": A transformative read that will challenge your views on success. Grab Your Copy
  • 📝 Faith Driven Leader Quiz: Discover how well you're aligning faith and work with our quick quiz. Take the Quiz

Key Lessons:

1. Success is a consequence of obedience, not a pursuit - Brett Johnson emphasizes the importance of serving the people God wants, regardless of financial gain, and highlights the concept of success as a result of obedience rather than a goal in itself.

2. Standing firm in faith and business - Brett encourages business owners and entrepreneurs to adopt a mindset of standing firm and not shrinking back, seek like-minded community, and pursue education to understand God's business model.

3. Cultural diversity in pastors' professions - The episode explores the varying attitudes towards pastors having other jobs in different countries, shedding light on the hierarchical relationships, Christian persecution, and government restrictions that influence pastors' professional choices.

4. Integrating spiritual and practical aspects in business - Brett Johnson shares his personal journey of balancing corporate roles with positions in the church and mission organizations, highlighting the challenge of merging spiritual and practical aspects in the business world.

5. The need for societal transformation through holistic purpose-driven businesses - The episode discusses Brett's mission to redefine the purpose of businesses beyond the bottom line, guiding corporations toward a greater purpose, and inspiring multigenerational households to bring about societal change.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 Identifying problems hindering success in business and faith.

06:09 Some issues stem from bad teaching or theology.

11:18 Faith and risk are inseparable in business.

21:47 Varied challenges for churches across different countries.

25:03 Balancing work, church, and missions with determination.

30:36 Define success, purpose, explore related dichotomies.

39:18 Reflecting on eternal mindset vs. short-term thinking.

45:03 Parents accept low success rate, seek support.

46:57 Curious if some are unprepared for success.

52:37 Challenge the unrealistic expectations of success.

01:00:37 Offer free services or charge for lessons.

01:04:02 Support the show by buying a coffee.

Thank you for listening to Seek Go Create!

Our podcast is dedicated to empowering Christian leaders, entrepreneurs, and individuals looking to redefine success in their personal and professional lives. Through in-depth interviews, personal anecdotes, and expert advice, we offer valuable insights and actionable strategies for achieving your goals and living a life of purpose and fulfillment.

If you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, we encourage you to subscribe to or follow Seek Go Create on your favorite podcast platform, including Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode and can stay up-to-date on the latest insights and strategies for success.

Additionally, please share this episode or what you’ve learned today with your friends, family, and colleagues on your favorite social media platform. By sharing our podcast, you can help us reach more people who are looking to align their faith with their work and lead with purpose.

For more updates and episodes, visit our website or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. We appreciate your support and look forward to helping you achieve your goals and create a life of purpose and fulfillment.

Now, you can tip us, buy us a coffee, or offer financial support. Contributions start at just $1, and if you leave a comment, you could be featured in a future episode!

Visit our Support page for more details.

Mentioned in this episode:

Achieve Your Vision with Tim Winders' Executive Coaching

Dreaming of a leadership role that not only achieves goals but also truly inspires? Join Tim Winders, your SeekGoCreate host, on a journey to make those dreams a tangible reality. As an expert executive coach, Tim is dedicated to transforming your aspirations into lasting legacies. With a unique blend of faith-driven guidance and real-world experience, he helps align your professional goals with your deepest values for a fulfilling and successful journey. Ready to shape a path that's truly your own? Schedule a free Discovery Coaching Call with Tim now. Dive into a conversation that could turn your vision into reality. Let's embark on this transformative journey together.

Book Coaching Call

Transcript
Brett Johnson:

I wanna mobilize people because they'll come alive

Brett Johnson:

when they're deploying truth.

Brett Johnson:

For me, truth in somebody's head just makes them more religious.

Brett Johnson:

Truth practiced, even with failure makes them more dangerous.

Tim Winders:

In a world where business and purpose intersect, how can

Tim Winders:

leaders transform their companies to create a positive societal impact?

Tim Winders:

Welcome to Seat Go Create, where we're joined by Brett Johnson,

Tim Winders:

A seasoned marketplace veteran, thought leader, and innovator who

Tim Winders:

has helped redefine the purpose of businesses beyond the bottom line.

Tim Winders:

Brett, with his vast experience working with over 400 companies worldwide, has

Tim Winders:

made a significant impact in guiding corporations toward a greater purpose.

Tim Winders:

As the founder of the Institute for Innovation Integration and Impact

Tim Winders:

Incorporated and a prolific author, his work spans leadership, societal

Tim Winders:

transformation, and work life integration.

Tim Winders:

Brett, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Tim Winders:

I.

Brett Johnson:

Thank you so much.

Brett Johnson:

I'm so glad to be here with you.

Brett Johnson:

I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Tim Winders:

I am looking forward to the conversation too.

Tim Winders:

Like I said, right before we hit record, you're such a perfect fit for

Tim Winders:

interacting with redefining success in leadership and business and ministry.

Tim Winders:

It sounds like that's somewhat been your mission from what

Tim Winders:

I've read and studied on you.

Tim Winders:

So, but, but before I dive into that deep end and we talk about what part

Tim Winders:

of the world you're in and all that.

Tim Winders:

Brett, if somebody asks you what you do, what do you typically tell 'em?

Brett Johnson:

Well, one of my passions is to abolish dichotomy, so I.

Brett Johnson:

Teach, I write, I co-lab with my wife to abolish the dichotomy, uh, is a

Brett Johnson:

negative, and the the positive is to model integration, to mobilize and to

Brett Johnson:

release the identity of leaders, uh, and to inspire multi-generational households.

Brett Johnson:

So that's part of what we do as we repurpose businesses and seek to

Brett Johnson:

bring about societal transformation.

Brett Johnson:

And then part of that is what we call comprehensively capitalizing things with

Brett Johnson:

different types of capital, including not just intellectual and relational and

Brett Johnson:

financial, but spiritual capital as well.

Brett Johnson:

So it's a bit of a, a ball of things.

Tim Winders:

It, it is quite a bit.

Tim Winders:

And we'll, I think we're gonna have a wide ranging conversation here.

Tim Winders:

You've got so many books that are fascinating.

Tim Winders:

I wanted to read, I wanted to read multiple ones.

Tim Winders:

I didn't have the time before our conversation and the resources you have.

Tim Winders:

But, but when, I mean, when, when you bring even a small amount of what you

Tim Winders:

just said, when you bring that up to people, what's the response you get?

Tim Winders:

'cause that's, that's big.

Tim Winders:

That's there's a lot there, Brett.

Brett Johnson:

Yeah, there, there is.

Brett Johnson:

And you know, sometimes it can seem a little bit like you're

Brett Johnson:

trying to boil the ocean.

Brett Johnson:

And uh, I remember once Tim, I was flying into France at the south of

Brett Johnson:

France and it was, the flight had been a 3:00 AM flight out of Tel Aviv.

Brett Johnson:

And so it was five in the morning.

Brett Johnson:

And I looked out the window and I said, God, I don't have it in me to

Brett Johnson:

tackle every giant in every country.

Brett Johnson:

And he said, yeah, but you can tackle the same giant in every country.

Brett Johnson:

And so he didn't let me off the hook.

Brett Johnson:

And so that giant for me has been the secular sacred dichotomy.

Brett Johnson:

You know, this, you know, this is spiritual and this isn't, and some

Brett Johnson:

things are gods and some things aren't.

Brett Johnson:

But so my passion is everything is Gods and how do we find God?

Brett Johnson:

In every part of society.

Brett Johnson:

So that's a big umbrella.

Brett Johnson:

So, and with a view to bringing about change in society now to do that,

Brett Johnson:

we have to unlock everyday people.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, many, many years ago I was leading a church in South Africa.

Brett Johnson:

I was also working at Pricewaterhouse and consulting to a mission organization,

Brett Johnson:

but I found that most of the people were sitting in my church bored out of their

Brett Johnson:

skulls, under deployed, underutilized.

Brett Johnson:

And these weren't the super spiritual types who liked to

Brett Johnson:

preach or evangelize on the street.

Brett Johnson:

These were the finance, marketing, it, sales, everyday business people

Brett Johnson:

who were second class citizens.

Brett Johnson:

And I thought, man, we have to really, really change that.

Brett Johnson:

And so that was in the early 1980s, 1981, that I could just see that

Brett Johnson:

problem and I thought, man, I really need to mobilize the people.

Brett Johnson:

But that means mobilizing everyday marketplace people.

Brett Johnson:

And so.

Brett Johnson:

So that's at the heart of it.

Brett Johnson:

And uh, it does sound a lot, but the real goal is how do you bring about the

Brett Johnson:

kingdom of God in practical, non-religious sounding ways in the marketplace.

Tim Winders:

Why is it, you know, one of the things that we do when we do

Tim Winders:

strategy, I'm sure you do it when you go in with companies, when I work with

Tim Winders:

companies, you know, we first, many times we have to state the problem.

Tim Winders:

And so, so my, my, I guess maybe my sort of big question here as we get rolling is.

Tim Winders:

What's the problem and why does it exist?

Tim Winders:

Why, why is it so hard for people to, you know, go out into the marketplace,

Tim Winders:

you know, make a few dollars, support their family, do the things

Tim Winders:

they need to do, or lead companies, businesses, organizations, and, and

Tim Winders:

operate in faith or, or vice versa.

Tim Winders:

Why is it that they go into a, their faith community and then they

Tim Winders:

can't bring some of their skills?

Tim Winders:

I mean, I, I just sort of said some of the problem, but what is the problem

Tim Winders:

and, and why is there a problem?

Tim Winders:

And then we'll try to tackle it in the rest of our time together.

Tim Winders:

But what, what's

Brett Johnson:

Yeah.

Brett Johnson:

Look, I think some of it is bad teaching, bad theology, uh, and

Brett Johnson:

some of it is just, uh, an implied, uh, arrogance almost on the part of

Brett Johnson:

church leaders or mission leaders.

Brett Johnson:

And I've led both, you know, so I'm not, uh, well, I guess I might be knocking

Brett Johnson:

them, but we have the same issues in every sphere of society, you know?

Brett Johnson:

So, um, I mean, in education, unless you're a PhD and you're writing for

Brett Johnson:

the academic community, they, they have their own elitist thing, so everybody

Brett Johnson:

has a bit of it, you know, but, so part of it is bad theology, but I think

Brett Johnson:

part of it is also a lack of purpose.

Brett Johnson:

I think.

Brett Johnson:

You know, people used to say to me when I wrote the book Convergence, it was

Brett Johnson:

about how do you integrate your career and your calling and your community,

Brett Johnson:

including your church community, and uh, and how do you co-create with God?

Brett Johnson:

And people would say, oh yeah, but I don't know what my calling is now.

Brett Johnson:

I tell them.

Brett Johnson:

In other words, they say, if I knew my calling, I would do it.

Brett Johnson:

So now I tell them, you're called to work.

Brett Johnson:

A hundred percent of us are.

Brett Johnson:

Bible is very clear on that.

Brett Johnson:

Now, whether you work for the First Presbyterian Church or for the Second

Brett Johnson:

National Bank, it's not the big deal.

Brett Johnson:

It's not whose name is on the paycheck.

Brett Johnson:

So first un understanding work and the redemptive value of work and the

Brett Johnson:

importance of work and, and working as God sees work as a wholesome thing.

Brett Johnson:

Right now there's a lot of pressure on young people.

Brett Johnson:

If you take the early, the Gen Zs and the younger ones, they're like, corporations

Brett Johnson:

are bad and a capitalism is bad.

Brett Johnson:

Work is bad.

Brett Johnson:

There's about six, 7 million people who have no intention of working in the US

Brett Johnson:

right now, and they're quite able-bodied, you know, and there's, there's help

Brett Johnson:

wanted signs all over the place.

Brett Johnson:

Part of it is, I think that there's an attack on work as the value of work.

Brett Johnson:

And I think that's partly, and because we are made in the image of God and

Brett Johnson:

we are made to work like him, and that when people see your work and

Brett Johnson:

my work, they'll see what God's like.

Brett Johnson:

And so it's no wonder, um, work is under attack.

Brett Johnson:

So I think there's some cultural things, there's some bad theology, and then

Brett Johnson:

there's a lack of purpose where we think it's okay that the purpose of

Brett Johnson:

business is to make money or to make the best widget or to, uh, you know, get

Brett Johnson:

funded and have an exit and so forth.

Brett Johnson:

So we've settled for a lesser purpose for a business or for an organization I.

Tim Winders:

It's, it also seems as if Brett, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask

Tim Winders:

you if you know some of the history on maybe how this came to be, that

Tim Winders:

in many of the ministry circles, and I've been in and out of churches, I've

Tim Winders:

been to Bible school for a few years.

Tim Winders:

There is either a stated or unstated more important purposes than others.

Tim Winders:

There's a ranking of purposes and, you know, I'll go to Bible school and I'll

Tim Winders:

say this sort of tongue in cheek, but it's real, you know, the, the ultimate is.

Tim Winders:

Missions work in some, you know, third world country.

Tim Winders:

Secondary to that is some other type of evangelist.

Tim Winders:

Next would be maybe a local pastor, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Tim Winders:

Ranking, ranking, ranking.

Tim Winders:

And then there's the business person, you know, way on down the list.

Tim Winders:

Well, I've always been a business person.

Tim Winders:

I mean, I've shared with people here, I actually was saved in a business setting.

Tim Winders:

I'm not even sure that I would've gone in a lot of churches, but, but what,

Tim Winders:

what, uh, how did we come to be here?

Tim Winders:

Because if we go back historically, I heard someone say the other day

Tim Winders:

that the Levitical priest of the Old Testament, they were pretty much butchers.

Tim Winders:

All they did was handle livestock and handle sacrifices and

Tim Winders:

butchering all day long, long.

Tim Winders:

They probably didn't have a lot of time to grab a microphone and preach and teach.

Tim Winders:

But any, any perspective on how we ended up with that being the message

Tim Winders:

in much of our religious circles today?

Brett Johnson:

I think it does go back a long way.

Brett Johnson:

I say partly the Greeks are to blame with the dualistic thinking

Brett Johnson:

about, you know, the separation of your spirit and your soul and your

Brett Johnson:

body and all this kind of stuff.

Brett Johnson:

But I think more recent history would be, uh, when the

Brett Johnson:

industrial Revolution came along.

Brett Johnson:

Part of, of what had happened.

Brett Johnson:

This whole, you've gotta separate God and business or you've gotta

Brett Johnson:

separate your work and your faith.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, when you had an agrarian economy, your church sat on the land of a landowner.

Brett Johnson:

So in many respects, uh, the pastor or the priest or the minister was

Brett Johnson:

subject to the whims of the landowner because he was economically subjective.

Brett Johnson:

And so then came a time which said, no, we need to separate those things.

Brett Johnson:

The idea was that the preacher or the Bible teacher wouldn't be impinged upon

Brett Johnson:

by somebody through an economic level.

Brett Johnson:

That was actually just it.

Brett Johnson:

The intention wasn't to separate faith and work.

Brett Johnson:

You can't really separate those things 'cause faith and risk

Brett Johnson:

are two sides of the same coin.

Brett Johnson:

If you're in business, you take risks, you have to have faith,

Brett Johnson:

and um, so I think there's.

Brett Johnson:

Part of an, um, unintended consequences of trying to separate

Brett Johnson:

out those things to create a bit more freedom actually for faith.

Brett Johnson:

But it had an another reality.

Brett Johnson:

So I think that that's part of the problem, I would

Brett Johnson:

say within church circles.

Brett Johnson:

However, I remember a lady, I met her and she was a mining

Brett Johnson:

engineer and a methodologist.

Brett Johnson:

She worked for one of the big mining houses and she, as they worked in a

Brett Johnson:

community, 'cause they had a big mine in a town with lots of small businesses,

Brett Johnson:

she went to her church leaders and said, I think God wants me to focus

Brett Johnson:

on ministering to these businesses.

Brett Johnson:

And they looked at her and they said, Jessica, you've got

Brett Johnson:

your ladder up the wrong wall.

Brett Johnson:

You have to do your ministry inside the church.

Brett Johnson:

And she had this conflict and she, there's many others I've met like that.

Brett Johnson:

God's telling me, do this, be practical, do stuff in the marketplace.

Brett Johnson:

But my church leaders are telling me.

Brett Johnson:

Do the opposite, and they feel there's this tension and so they

Brett Johnson:

go into a funk and, um, it's a, it's a challenge for them because,

Brett Johnson:

and it's really just bad theology.

Brett Johnson:

And so, you know, from my

Brett Johnson:

perspective, I, I don't worry about the church going away.

Brett Johnson:

You know, the scripture says that Jesus will build a church, whether it's in

Brett Johnson:

a storefront, whether it's in a living room, whether it's in a stadium, whether

Brett Johnson:

it's a megachurch, a tiny church.

Brett Johnson:

I'm not worried about that.

Brett Johnson:

What I would love to see, however, is a church in every business.

Brett Johnson:

I'd love to see a church in every classroom, an expression

Brett Johnson:

of the kingdom of God.

Brett Johnson:

And uh, I think if we could get our heads around that, then you would know,

Brett Johnson:

man, we don't have enough resources.

Brett Johnson:

We've got to empower and mobilize everybody.

Brett Johnson:

Which is why Jesus died, he died so that you can be a minister, I can be a minister

Brett Johnson:

regardless of whether we went to Bible school so that each of us can be fully

Brett Johnson:

equipped to extend the kingdom of God.

Brett Johnson:

So I think there's some historical reasons.

Brett Johnson:

I think there's some control reasons, you know, um, and some

Brett Johnson:

of which we've also adopted the hierarchical systems of the world.

Brett Johnson:

So when I look in the Old Testament, in the Jewish world, a quorum was

Brett Johnson:

10 believers, 10 Jewish people.

Brett Johnson:

Basically, you couldn't do something official.

Brett Johnson:

Like even now if, if an Israeli soldier dies in Gaza or something, you need 10

Brett Johnson:

people before you can do the funeral.

Brett Johnson:

This is, is part of what it is.

Brett Johnson:

And, um, so a, a rabbi got an email from a rabbi who kind of explained

Brett Johnson:

the way that they would do what we today would call a church plant.

Brett Johnson:

In church plant.

Brett Johnson:

We take somebody from South Africa or from.

Brett Johnson:

North Dakota, we send them to Africa with their wife and two kids.

Brett Johnson:

They get some financial support.

Brett Johnson:

They arrive with a an SUV and A or whatever they're gonna have.

Brett Johnson:

No, that's not what they would do.

Brett Johnson:

In the Old Testament setup, you'd get 10 business leaders who would

Brett Johnson:

come together and form a quorum, and then they would call a rabbi.

Brett Johnson:

And the rabbi, of course, would live at the same level as the others

Brett Johnson:

because they would each give 10%.

Brett Johnson:

So you had this built in, but it wasn't the cult of the individual leader.

Brett Johnson:

I'm the church planter, I'm the bishop, I'm the apostle, I'm the this,

Brett Johnson:

no, it was a quorum of leaders, a plurality of leadership, which is, I

Brett Johnson:

think we've lost some of that as well.

Brett Johnson:

And that leads to this hierarchical view and people

Brett Johnson:

giving themselves titles, you know?

Tim Winders:

I'm also not sure I, I, I had another question,

Tim Winders:

but I wanna ask this one.

Tim Winders:

Uh, since you just brought that up, Brett, I'm also not sure that

Tim Winders:

men man can handle some of those hierarchical roles we've placed them in.

Tim Winders:

And I think we've got plenty of evidence of that.

Tim Winders:

I mean, if we look at, you know, people that fall, I mean, are, are we trying

Tim Winders:

to ask more of many of the leaders?

Tim Winders:

And I know you teach on leadership, I know you and I are gonna discuss

Tim Winders:

it here shortly, but are, are we, are we putting too much pressure on

Brett Johnson:

A hundred percent.

Brett Johnson:

Yeah,

Tim Winders:

things they shouldn't be doing?

Brett Johnson:

you're quite right.

Brett Johnson:

I think it's, um, what I observed some years ago, probably 20 plus years ago, is

Brett Johnson:

that if you call a new pastor, a church puts out a search committee and gets a

Brett Johnson:

new minister, whether it's a Baptist or Presbyterian or Methodist or whatever.

Brett Johnson:

That person's got about an 18 month shelf life.

Brett Johnson:

It sounds terrible, but.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, that's why guys will go off and start their own church

Brett Johnson:

because then they call the shots.

Brett Johnson:

They're good for 10, 20 years or whatever.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, but part of it is the crazy job expectations.

Brett Johnson:

We expect you to preach 48 out of 52 weeks in the year.

Brett Johnson:

We expect you to visit so many people in their homes.

Brett Johnson:

We, and, and it's a long list of criteria.

Brett Johnson:

Instead of saying, we expect you to fall on your face when you do, we have a safety

Brett Johnson:

net behind you, and it's, it's this board or this eldership group or this team

Brett Johnson:

behind you, and we're gonna help you.

Brett Johnson:

We don't expect you to be perfect.

Brett Johnson:

We would consider it a failure if you preached every week, because then you're

Brett Johnson:

not empowering other people, which is what you're supposed to do and so forth.

Brett Johnson:

So it, we could change the expectations and we could free people up.

Brett Johnson:

It would make a huge difference.

Brett Johnson:

You know, in the business world, the number one fear of CEOs

Brett Johnson:

repeatedly is one day they're gonna find out, I dunno what I'm doing.

Brett Johnson:

And, and I've heard, I've so many times I've heard CEOs, you know,

Brett Johnson:

one day they're gonna figure out, I don't know what's going on.

Brett Johnson:

Well, pastors and church leaders have the same kind of thing, and it's a little

Brett Johnson:

bit worse because when you bring God into the equation, it's like, well, isn't God

Brett Johnson:

supposed to give you these superpowers?

Brett Johnson:

And therefore you should be impervious to this stuff?

Brett Johnson:

Therefore, you don't show your weaknesses, therefore you get

Brett Johnson:

lonely and it's just a, a bad cycle

Tim Winders:

Yeah, I, I definitely see the challenges there.

Tim Winders:

One, one of the things, Brett, you're, you're in South Africa right now?

Tim Winders:

I've visited there a few times.

Tim Winders:

What part of South

Brett Johnson:

down in?

Brett Johnson:

Cape Town.

Tim Winders:

Cape Town.

Tim Winders:

Oh, one of the most beautiful cities in the world with Cape Town.

Tim Winders:

Stunning.

Tim Winders:

What do you see, and I know you've traveled extensively and I know you spend

Tim Winders:

a good bit of your time in the US also, but do you notice anything about this

Tim Winders:

topic that we're discussing culturally as you go from different countries?

Tim Winders:

I mean, we, those of us that are in the United States, and

Tim Winders:

you know this, you know it well.

Tim Winders:

We have this arrogant attitude that.

Tim Winders:

Everything sort of revolves around us and that the world spills out.

Tim Winders:

But do you notice any differences with this topic we're discussing in

Tim Winders:

other parts of the world that might be beneficial for us to understand?

Brett Johnson:

that's a really good point.

Brett Johnson:

It does vary a lot by country, and I'll give you three or four examples.

Brett Johnson:

So I was speaking once in Egypt and uh, they asked a question

Brett Johnson:

about a pastor of a church having a side hustle, a side business, and

Brett Johnson:

it's against their rules because.

Brett Johnson:

They'll pay you a

Brett Johnson:

hundred pounds a month.

Brett Johnson:

You've got a couple of kids, three, four kids, you, you can't afford to live.

Brett Johnson:

But they will say, well, then you don't have the faith to be a pastor.

Brett Johnson:

If you go and get a side hustle another job, you drive Uber or you

Brett Johnson:

do whatever, then you, you don't have the faith to be a pastor.

Brett Johnson:

Whereas when I was in the Ukraine 30 years ago, uh, I asked the head

Brett Johnson:

of a denomination, what percentage of your pastors have other jobs?

Brett Johnson:

He said, 99.9.

Brett Johnson:

I'm the only one who doesn't, and he was the head of the denomination.

Brett Johnson:

He said, everybody else has another job.

Brett Johnson:

When I go into Nigeria, for example, most of the leaders, certainly many of

Brett Johnson:

them are bi-vocational, so they're a judge and they're a pastor, they're a

Brett Johnson:

government minister, and they're a pastor.

Brett Johnson:

They're a bank, CEO, and they're a pastor.

Brett Johnson:

Now, there is a bit of.

Brett Johnson:

Hierarchy in the sense that they're a pastor and the CEO, the bank,

Brett Johnson:

CEO slots in underneath that.

Brett Johnson:

In other words, you know, I have a friend, he's a, he is a high government

Brett Johnson:

official, and they call him pastor, whatever, uh, be, but it's an honored

Brett Johnson:

thing, but it's not uncommon for them to have multiple jobs, and then

Brett Johnson:

they build the systems behind them.

Brett Johnson:

So my friend, I have a friend who, pastors a good sized church, heads

Brett Johnson:

up a big department in the, in the federal government in another city

Brett Johnson:

and oversees another 150 churches.

Brett Johnson:

And, but he has a support staff, he has people who work with him.

Brett Johnson:

He delegates, he sets up systems You know, so they cope with a lot of stuff.

Brett Johnson:

So if you said to somebody in that context, oh, you can't be a businessman

Brett Johnson:

and a pastor, it makes no sense.

Brett Johnson:

So it does vary from country to country.

Brett Johnson:

and I think in the states.

Brett Johnson:

You know, this notion that, well, you can't be a pastor.

Brett Johnson:

I was talking to a major missions organization, this was probably

Brett Johnson:

20 plus years ago, and they showed me an org chart on their wall and

Brett Johnson:

they had highlighted many of the spots on the org chart with yellow.

Brett Johnson:

And I asked them, what are those highlights?

Brett Johnson:

And they said, those are all the people that we are missing.

Brett Johnson:

And so I said, well, why don't you go up the road to where you're having

Brett Johnson:

your, your, Crossroads Discipleship Training school and just go and tell

Brett Johnson:

them about all the openings you have?

Brett Johnson:

No, we can't do that.

Brett Johnson:

I said, why not?

Brett Johnson:

Well, because they're having a spiritual experience up there and this is the

Brett Johnson:

practical running of our organization.

Brett Johnson:

And I'm like, you know, so we shoot ourselves in the foot.

Brett Johnson:

And, um, so I, I think that country by country, it does vary quite a lot.

Brett Johnson:

And I just think it's.

Brett Johnson:

What's gonna solve some of this is antagonism towards Christians, because

Brett Johnson:

I've worked in some countries where it's hard to get a permit to put up a church.

Brett Johnson:

So you have your church in one of the floors of a bank building, and when

Brett Johnson:

you go in there, it feels like a bank, abit and uh, or like a corporate.

Brett Johnson:

And I think more and more there will be pressures, uh, even in Canada.

Brett Johnson:

I was up in Canada many years ago and they told me that if you have nonprofit

Brett Johnson:

status, that government can tell you what you can preach and can't preach.

Brett Johnson:

So I was speaking to some guys, a guy who went through our, our repurposing

Brett Johnson:

business training, and he said they were thinking about flipping their

Brett Johnson:

church to be a business so that the government wouldn't tell them what to do.

Brett Johnson:

It might be that we forced to squeeze out some of the secular

Brett Johnson:

sacred dichotomy through pressure.

Brett Johnson:

I hope not.

Brett Johnson:

But I suspect it might happen.

Tim Winders:

I just had a thought of a, a good friend, we've interviewed

Tim Winders:

him here, Mike Bearer, who he and I did consulting work back during the nineties

Tim Winders:

and do work together from time to time.

Tim Winders:

He actually would go into Kazakhstan in countries like that and do kind of

Tim Winders:

the micro business model because you could not come in during those times

Tim Winders:

and start churches and they would build up people in their business.

Tim Winders:

They would be believers.

Tim Winders:

And that is how the ministry would happen.

Tim Winders:

That's the only way it would happen.

Tim Winders:

It wasn't going to be a, a church being started.

Tim Winders:

You know, Brett, one thing that I, I wanna ask this maybe before we

Tim Winders:

get too much farther, is I think everybody has a journey that puts

Tim Winders:

them, uh, I guess down certain paths.

Tim Winders:

And obviously you've had a journey that's merged, uh, you know, the

Tim Winders:

spiritual and the sacred with the practical and the business along the way.

Tim Winders:

And, you know, our, one of our taglines here is redefining success.

Tim Winders:

And I loved, um, I looked at your site, you've got repurposing

Tim Winders:

business, transforming society.

Tim Winders:

Those are big, big words.

Tim Winders:

Before we kind of, you know, tackle all of that, uh, give some

Tim Winders:

highlights of how you have come to be.

Tim Winders:

Kind of at this crossroads, at this place where there's dichotomies that you're

Tim Winders:

attempting to bust up because people don't go down just a path of becoming

Tim Winders:

a pastor and all of a sudden start thinking this way or just go down a path

Tim Winders:

of business owner and do that either.

Tim Winders:

How, how did, how did, how did that happen?

Brett Johnson:

that's a good question.

Brett Johnson:

I would say it wasn't through some great forethought.

Brett Johnson:

I think it was partly just because I asked God, for example, when I, I studied, uh,

Brett Johnson:

I finished an undergraduate and then.

Brett Johnson:

I got approached by Youth for Christ, would I join their staff?

Brett Johnson:

And, uh, my dad said, you can do it.

Brett Johnson:

My mom said, no way.

Brett Johnson:

You have to finish and you have to become like a CPA Chartered accountant.

Brett Johnson:

So I did that.

Brett Johnson:

So now I'm working at Pricewaterhouse.

Brett Johnson:

And um, part of my view of things was that that church that I was

Brett Johnson:

attending, which was started by four business people, uh, it needed

Brett Johnson:

some structure and some order in it.

Brett Johnson:

And I, I was 24 years old, 23 years old, and I was, I pressed

Brett Johnson:

the pastor to appoint elders.

Brett Johnson:

So he pointed some elders and I was one of them.

Brett Johnson:

The other guy left and then I ended up getting a field

Brett Johnson:

promotion because the pastor left.

Brett Johnson:

So now I'm running the church.

Brett Johnson:

So now my question was, God, when are you gonna tell me to quit my job at

Brett Johnson:

Pricewaterhouse so I can run the church?

Brett Johnson:

Well, he didn't.

Brett Johnson:

So I had two jobs and I had to figure out how to make them work.

Brett Johnson:

Then I had a friend with youth with a mission, and.

Brett Johnson:

I ended up consulting to youth with a mission and traveling overseas

Brett Johnson:

looking for best practices in missions and figuring out I could mobilize

Brett Johnson:

the business people in my church to serve mission organizations.

Brett Johnson:

So now I had three jobs and I just had to figure out how to make this work.

Brett Johnson:

And balance was not the answer when I was a young believer.

Brett Johnson:

I attended classes on the balanced Christian life, you know, and Jesus

Brett Johnson:

grew in wisdom and stature and favor with God, favor with man, so,

Brett Johnson:

so much time for physical, so much time for spiritual, so much time

Brett Johnson:

for mental, so much time for social.

Brett Johnson:

And if you've got three jobs, it doesn't work.

Brett Johnson:

Unless you figure out how to integrate these things, then you have a problem.

Brett Johnson:

So fast forward, I'd moved from Pricewaterhouse to KPMG to

Brett Johnson:

Computer Sciences Corporation.

Brett Johnson:

During that time, I'd started a nonprofit in California called

Brett Johnson:

Professionals for Christ.

Brett Johnson:

And then we later changed the name to Equip and that became

Brett Johnson:

the repurposing business thing.

Brett Johnson:

And uh, so I was working regular jobs and consulting to mission

Brett Johnson:

organizations primarily, and churches.

Brett Johnson:

And then also doing my day job of consulting to businesses.

Brett Johnson:

And so I just ended up living in these multiple worlds and I had

Brett Johnson:

to figure out how to blend them together so that you didn't have

Brett Johnson:

your spiritual life and your social life and your work life and so forth.

Brett Johnson:

So it became down to practical choices.

Brett Johnson:

So for example, in the business world, you were expected to take clients

Brett Johnson:

out for business meals, sometimes business dinners or whatever.

Brett Johnson:

I would bring them to my home, they got to meet my kids.

Brett Johnson:

I could have the dinner at home.

Brett Johnson:

It was a bit more pressure on my wife.

Brett Johnson:

Um, but they got to see the real me.

Brett Johnson:

They got to interact.

Brett Johnson:

I wasn't awake by the same token.

Brett Johnson:

When the kids were very young, we couldn't do mission trips.

Brett Johnson:

So we invited the missionaries to come and stay with us, come and stay in our home.

Brett Johnson:

And so hospitality is the glue that can pull various things together.

Brett Johnson:

So that was one of them.

Brett Johnson:

And then your, the definition of success.

Brett Johnson:

You know, I had to deal with it early on, uh, when I was a partner

Brett Johnson:

at KPMG and I quit to go to Computer Sciences Corporation because I felt

Brett Johnson:

my family needed more of my time.

Brett Johnson:

I mean, they couldn't believe it.

Brett Johnson:

You work your whole life to become a partner in one of the big six firms

Brett Johnson:

or the big four firms, but it depends who's got your scorecard, right?

Brett Johnson:

So I never let price order House or KPMG, or CSC hold my scorecard.

Brett Johnson:

I had to be, I had to live for an audience of one and I had to also settle.

Brett Johnson:

When I say settle, I had to accept the fact that success from God's

Brett Johnson:

perspective is different from success from man's perspective.

Brett Johnson:

So that one, I had to settle.

Brett Johnson:

And I'm not saying it's always easy because, you know, I don't

Brett Johnson:

have a 401k, I don't have the, the benefits of all of those things that

Brett Johnson:

have come out of a corporate life.

Brett Johnson:

Um, but I do have other things.

Brett Johnson:

You know, we are super rich in relationships.

Brett Johnson:

We've worked in countries around the world.

Brett Johnson:

We've trained thousands of people.

Brett Johnson:

We have a, a big household, if you like.

Brett Johnson:

Um, but would it, is it success from a corporate career perspective?

Brett Johnson:

Oh, no, not at all.

Brett Johnson:

So for me, my journey was a mixed one, almost forced.

Brett Johnson:

And I had to just figure it out because God didn't let me off the hook.

Brett Johnson:

So we eventually, when we were running the institute, one of my staff said

Brett Johnson:

to me, Brett, what are we, are we a business or are we a ministry?

Brett Johnson:

I said, yes.

Brett Johnson:

He said, no, no, no.

Brett Johnson:

You don't understand the question, you know, and so you end up

Brett Johnson:

in this place where there's no difference between mission.

Brett Johnson:

Business ministry church.

Brett Johnson:

I have people coming to us who go through our training and they say, oh, this

Brett Johnson:

has been my best experience of church.

Brett Johnson:

Well, we don't say we are a church, we're we carry a business umbrella.

Brett Johnson:

'cause we can go into any country in the world as a business and, but

Brett Johnson:

when you don't have these separate labels for things, it's all just

Brett Johnson:

gods then And, and I arrived there.

Brett Johnson:

It was also a little bit of modeling in that my parents, I remember when I

Brett Johnson:

was a teenager, I asked my mom, what would dad do if he had more money?

Brett Johnson:

And she said he'd plant more churches because my parents, as business

Brett Johnson:

people started churches, the country was growing and your neighborhood

Brett Johnson:

starts up, it needs a church.

Brett Johnson:

So that's what you do.

Brett Johnson:

And who started the church?

Brett Johnson:

The business people did.

Brett Johnson:

So that was pretty normal.

Tim Winders:

So one thing you brought up and, and you mentioned a a little

Tim Winders:

bit of this earlier, you just said one of the things that you had to do.

Tim Winders:

Was really make sure you understood what success meant for you.

Tim Winders:

One of, one of our theories or foundations here is that most

Tim Winders:

people don't take the time to really define what success means for them.

Tim Winders:

And you mentioned earlier purpose.

Tim Winders:

I think that's, they may not be the same, but they're related.

Tim Winders:

They might be siblings, you know, purpose.

Tim Winders:

What does success mean to you?

Tim Winders:

And I think that's where dichotomies begin.

Tim Winders:

Arising.

Tim Winders:

You mentioned earlier that you bust up dichotomies and separate those out.

Tim Winders:

What I, I mean, I, I just, I consider that to be foundational to a lot of

Tim Winders:

the conversation we're having here.

Tim Winders:

What, and I know you've got a lot of resources, you've got books,

Tim Winders:

you've got things like that.

Tim Winders:

So maybe we could start talking about some of that here.

Tim Winders:

But Brett, what, because I do think that people struggle with it.

Tim Winders:

I've struggled with it.

Tim Winders:

I mean, I, you know, I was a, I owned companies, and then in 2008,

Tim Winders:

they all disappeared and I realized my identity, even though I had a

Tim Winders:

faith about me, I was wrapped up in how successful my business was.

Tim Winders:

So, so h how, how do people begin pressing in and identifying

Tim Winders:

what success means for them?

Tim Winders:

Not copying what, what Tim's success is, or Brett's success, or, you know,

Tim Winders:

whoever's h how do they do that?

Tim Winders:

Give some practical stuff.

Brett Johnson:

I love John the Baptist in this regard.

Brett Johnson:

I think, man, what a tough job.

Brett Johnson:

You know?

Brett Johnson:

And he had a Downwardly mobile career path, and he says, he's like,

Brett Johnson:

he must increase, I must decrease.

Brett Johnson:

I mean, he's losing market share to his cousin.

Brett Johnson:

You know, his followers are leaving and going after his cousin.

Brett Johnson:

He ends up in jail for, for doing the job he's supposed to do.

Brett Johnson:

But he says, you know, a man can only have or do what God's given him to do.

Brett Johnson:

And so it's what's my assignment versus somebody else's assignment.

Brett Johnson:

So firstly, not measuring my life by your yardstick and vice versa.

Brett Johnson:

So I think that there's, that.

Brett Johnson:

I also think that Psalm one talks about, you know, blessed is the, is

Brett Johnson:

the person, the man or the woman who, you know, does various things and they

Brett Johnson:

will be like a tree planted by a river and so forth, bearing fruit in season.

Brett Johnson:

So I think that if success is a pursuit, it's an idol, it's sin.

Brett Johnson:

If success is a consequence of obedience, it's a fruit.

Brett Johnson:

And so for me, I'm looking for fruit not pursued.

Brett Johnson:

And sadly, much of the be a good Christian stuff, the self-help Christian

Brett Johnson:

stuff is the pursuit of success.

Brett Johnson:

Even if it looks like godly, dressed up, sanctimonious, nice smelling success,

Brett Johnson:

actually, it's still a pursuit versus the fruit of a life of obedience.

Brett Johnson:

So for me, what's God asking me to do?

Brett Johnson:

Am I obeying the things he's told me to do?

Brett Johnson:

Am I loving the people?

Brett Johnson:

He's, I mean, I remember when we started the institute, it was the late 1990s.

Brett Johnson:

It was probably 96, 97, and I said, okay, God, I need to know,

Brett Johnson:

how do I have a predictable income stream for this new business?

Brett Johnson:

A day goes by, two days go by, three days go by, no answer.

Brett Johnson:

I said, God, you're not answering my question.

Brett Johnson:

He said, it's the wrong question.

Brett Johnson:

I said, what's the right question?

Brett Johnson:

He said, who do I want you to serve?

Brett Johnson:

So God's not obliged to answer stupid questions.

Brett Johnson:

I figured that out.

Brett Johnson:

And so even now when I'm about to run a class called Lemon Preneur, and when

Brett Johnson:

people speak to entrepreneurs, they talk about the lean business canvas.

Brett Johnson:

And, and you've gotta figure out your customers and your, your, you know,

Brett Johnson:

what your big idea is and your unique value proposition and all of this stuff.

Brett Johnson:

Well, the question isn't how do you get an income stream?

Brett Johnson:

The question is, are we serving the people that God wants us to

Brett Johnson:

serve, whether they paying or not.

Brett Johnson:

Now, I happen to believe that finances can facilitate relationships.

Brett Johnson:

In other words, if I'm renting your rv, uh, it gives us a chance

Brett Johnson:

to have a relationship, but it's not a metric of success.

Brett Johnson:

And, um, and so yeah, for me, practically be happy to be obedient.

Brett Johnson:

And then if there is an economic shortfall, when there is an economic

Brett Johnson:

shortfall, because sometimes there is, you have to say, okay, God, either

Brett Johnson:

I'm gonna trust you through this thing because you've always come through

Brett Johnson:

before, or I've gotta ask you for a way.

Brett Johnson:

Do you have a better way of doing something that I haven't thought about?

Brett Johnson:

And I also think it's different for different people.

Brett Johnson:

I've met people who have a great formula for making money.

Brett Johnson:

God has gifted them to do it.

Brett Johnson:

And for others, he said, look, I don't want you to tell people your needs.

Brett Johnson:

I don't want you to advertise.

Brett Johnson:

I don't want you to market.

Brett Johnson:

I will do the marketing for you.

Brett Johnson:

Now each person has to deal with what they're given in their,

Brett Johnson:

their hands, and, and they're unique and they made differently.

Brett Johnson:

And, um, so I fall more into the latter category.

Brett Johnson:

So when I left KPMG to go to Computer Sciences Corporation.

Brett Johnson:

I took a, I think about a third of a pay cut is what I did, but I got a

Brett Johnson:

commission on what my practice did.

Brett Johnson:

So there was an upside.

Brett Johnson:

And a Jewish man, a Jewish believer from New York, had once said to

Brett Johnson:

me, you've gotta put yourself in a position where God can bless you.

Brett Johnson:

So you have to be put yourself in a position of risk.

Brett Johnson:

Now, having a regular income with a 401k with a company car,

Brett Johnson:

with a housing allowance is not exactly a position of risk.

Brett Johnson:

Some people are called to it.

Brett Johnson:

If you're called to be in the corporate world, that's fine, but that's actually

Brett Johnson:

just hidden slavery for many people.

Brett Johnson:

And so, so I went to Computer Sciences Corporation.

Brett Johnson:

I took a cut, but God had said to me, don't worry about the income.

Brett Johnson:

So he specifically said that to me, and then he did some miraculous

Brett Johnson:

things and took care of it.

Brett Johnson:

So when he told me to start the institute, I already had in my memory bag.

Brett Johnson:

Don't worry about the income.

Brett Johnson:

Now, there've been times when I should be worried.

Brett Johnson:

Um, I remember once I got a call from my accountant, I was driving to the dentist

Brett Johnson:

in San Jose in, in the San Fran, in the Silicon Valley, and my accountant called

Brett Johnson:

me and said, Brett, you have to get ready to write a big check to the IRS.

Brett Johnson:

I went to the dentist on the way home.

Brett Johnson:

I literally thought to myself, I should start worrying about the tax issue now.

Brett Johnson:

And Claire Isabel, God said to me, you do not have a right to worry.

Brett Johnson:

I'm like, wow.

Brett Johnson:

So now I remember that when a financial difficulty comes along,

Brett Johnson:

I don't have a right to worry.

Brett Johnson:

And so 'cause worry is a counter kingdom key performance indicator, if you like.

Brett Johnson:

And so it ties back to this question of success.

Brett Johnson:

Well, what are you worrying about?

Brett Johnson:

Are you worrying about status, worrying about what people think of you?

Brett Johnson:

Uh, I remember sitting on my.

Brett Johnson:

We were renting a house in, in Redwood City, and I had

Brett Johnson:

my deck and I looked at it.

Brett Johnson:

My neighbor was chief legal guy at one of the big high tech companies.

Brett Johnson:

And I thought to myself, ah, I remember the days when I used to have

Brett Johnson:

a regular income and so forth, and I was reading the Psalms, and it's the

Brett Johnson:

psalm that says, know that the Lord sets apart the Godly for himself.

Brett Johnson:

So it's like God's got a hundred sheep and one of them is called Tim, and he says,

Brett Johnson:

I want to play with Tim for a year or so.

Brett Johnson:

You know?

Brett Johnson:

So he sets you apart for himself.

Brett Johnson:

Well, that's a huge privilege.

Brett Johnson:

And you think you got fired, you lost a client, you're

Brett Johnson:

going through a quiet period.

Brett Johnson:

And God is thinking, I've got some time with Brett.

Brett Johnson:

I've got some time with Tim.

Brett Johnson:

So it, you know, it's a different metric of success.

Brett Johnson:

Otherwise we say, oh, Brett's lost it.

Brett Johnson:

You know, you got fired by a client, or he can't hold down a job, or

Brett Johnson:

whatever it might be, you know?

Tim Winders:

I do think at times that sometimes worry.

Tim Winders:

I, I think it is for me, my wife and I this year, one of the things

Tim Winders:

we're studying and meditating more on is this aspect of eternal

Tim Winders:

mindset versus short-term thinking.

Tim Winders:

I, I, I, I think we're gonna learn at some point that time is not

Tim Winders:

really what we all think it is.

Tim Winders:

And that's really, we create a lot of our own deadlines and create these,

Tim Winders:

you know, probably situations where we say we've gotta have X amount of money

Tim Winders:

by here, et cetera, things like that.

Tim Winders:

But I also love how you, you have.

Tim Winders:

A lot of information related to the Kingdom of God.

Tim Winders:

And one of the things that I've attempted to study and learn

Tim Winders:

more about is the kingdom of God.

Tim Winders:

And the way I word it for me, this, this is my message so that Tim has an

Tim Winders:

understanding of what my purpose is, is that on a daily basis I am asking

Tim Winders:

the Lord, what is my assignment in his kingdom today or this minute, or this

Tim Winders:

instant or this week or whatever, you know, trying to remove some time from it.

Tim Winders:

And so I do, I do love that concept of assignment.

Tim Winders:

You brought it up earlier, but uh, before we get too much farther, I, I want to

Tim Winders:

ask, because I think this leads us into some of the resources and the things

Tim Winders:

that you have, you, you said that the Lord told you, you're asking the wrong

Tim Winders:

question, not, you know, how do you bring in revenue, but who do you serve?

Tim Winders:

So.

Tim Winders:

So I'm gonna ask you now, who is it that you serve?

Tim Winders:

Define some of those groups and categories and, 'cause I, I see a lot of stuff when

Tim Winders:

I look at your resources, your books.

Tim Winders:

I see a lot of stuff.

Tim Winders:

And so define for me a little bit better, I guess.

Tim Winders:

Who, who do you serve?

Tim Winders:

Who, who does you, the institute and your company and your

Tim Winders:

organization serve right now?

Brett Johnson:

Good question.

Brett Johnson:

So the first group is not the first group.

Brett Johnson:

I'll just give you three groups.

Brett Johnson:

They're like a, a tripod, if you like.

Brett Johnson:

One is people who are working in corporates.

Brett Johnson:

They have good business skills.

Brett Johnson:

They have a good education.

Brett Johnson:

They might be from CEOs to directors to mid-market managers and so forth.

Brett Johnson:

They believe there's something more to their work.

Brett Johnson:

They believe that they have skill sets that can be used in the kingdom of God,

Brett Johnson:

and they want to get mobilized and they want to figure out how do they bring

Brett Johnson:

biblical principles into their workplace, without all the religious trappings.

Brett Johnson:

And so these are people that, they're working for a company and there's,

Brett Johnson:

there's just millions of them doing so and so people in the marketplace.

Brett Johnson:

For me, they're a little bit like Paul was called to the Gentiles.

Brett Johnson:

The marketplace is, is.

Brett Johnson:

My place.

Brett Johnson:

So starting with people who are in, in those businesses, mid-market

Brett Johnson:

business owners is the next category.

Brett Johnson:

So these are people who own their own business.

Brett Johnson:

They can do what they want to do roughly in the company, they have

Brett Johnson:

the authority to bring about changes.

Brett Johnson:

And those are the mid-market companies that we wanna see repurposed.

Brett Johnson:

It's not that we don't wanna see the corporates repurposed, but typically

Brett Johnson:

you have to do a buyout or you have to have, you know, a major thing

Brett Johnson:

for that to happen in a Cisco, in an apple or something like that.

Brett Johnson:

Whereas, uh, in a mid-market companies, many of the jobs

Brett Johnson:

are created by mid markets.

Brett Johnson:

People have the freedom to implement and execute without saying, oh, well

Brett Johnson:

I can't do this because of the board or because of the shareholders.

Brett Johnson:

And a lot of the growth potential sits there.

Brett Johnson:

And then the third category is the entrepreneurs who.

Brett Johnson:

Want to have a business that's gonna make a difference in the world.

Brett Johnson:

And so for those people, they're saying, right, I want to set up

Brett Johnson:

from the beginning and build my business on a foundation of truth.

Brett Johnson:

They don't buy into the success to significance myth, you know, first I'll

Brett Johnson:

be successful, then I'll be significant.

Brett Johnson:

They're like, no, I want to bes significant from the beginning.

Brett Johnson:

Even if I have to make some compensation in terms of how much I

Brett Johnson:

earn or what my career looks like.

Brett Johnson:

I want to start a business that's gonna make a difference

Brett Johnson:

in my community or in the world.

Brett Johnson:

so it's those people and equipping them with some of the basics.

Brett Johnson:

Work is worship, work is good.

Brett Johnson:

God worked before there was the fall.

Brett Johnson:

Discipleship is teaching people to work the way that God designed them to work.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, these very basic things.

Brett Johnson:

You're called to work.

Brett Johnson:

You know, and, and co-creating with God is a wonderful thing to do, whether

Brett Johnson:

it's a new business or a new product.

Brett Johnson:

So those are the entrepreneurs.

Brett Johnson:

Now, over the last 20 plus years, we've worked with about

Brett Johnson:

400 plus mid-market companies.

Brett Johnson:

Over the years I've worked with many, many executives from, you

Brett Johnson:

know, fortune 50 companies in the down to Fortune 500 companies.

Brett Johnson:

We've worked with our fair share of entrepreneurs.

Brett Johnson:

Um, they require a lot of handholding and, uh, part of my passion there

Brett Johnson:

is because I think it's unacceptable to have this 80% failure rate.

Brett Johnson:

It would be like, you know, you've got five kids.

Brett Johnson:

Four out of the five are a failure, and you and your

Brett Johnson:

wife say, eh, it's no problem.

Brett Johnson:

We got one.

Brett Johnson:

You know, and you know, you would say like, what are we doing wrong as

Brett Johnson:

parents, you know, one of the kids isn't doing that well, maybe two.

Brett Johnson:

You're like, oh my gosh, what are they?

Brett Johnson:

And so we would be distraught if we were parents and we had a 20% success

Brett Johnson:

rate, but we buy into the system that it's okay, well if, if, if one out

Brett Johnson:

of 10 kids knocks it out of the park, it'll make up for the other nine.

Brett Johnson:

It's so diabolical.

Brett Johnson:

So for me, as we raise up, there's millions of people entering the

Brett Johnson:

workforce or actually coming, starting their own businesses, doing things.

Brett Johnson:

Whether they're high schoolers who are building apps or people who

Brett Johnson:

are doing things, or people who are, I mean, categories of work.

Brett Johnson:

We didn't have, when you and I are young, like neither of us wanted

Brett Johnson:

to be an influencer and, uh, or so.

Brett Johnson:

How do you help them to do this kind of stuff of a biblical foundation?

Brett Johnson:

And, and that's really, I don't think there's a money, a lot of money in that.

Brett Johnson:

So for example, at the end of the month of the 25th, we start

Brett Johnson:

a new class called Lemon Preneur.

Brett Johnson:

How do you take some of these concepts of plural leadership and bring

Brett Johnson:

them to entrepreneurs, for example?

Brett Johnson:

So that's our third group.

Brett Johnson:

So in the middle we have the mid-market leaders.

Brett Johnson:

And that the definition of mid-market varies by country.

Brett Johnson:

Of course, in the US it's pretty good sized company.

Brett Johnson:

But in a, a developing world, uh, those will be smaller companies, but it's, we

Brett Johnson:

don't do our daily bread and butter with, you know, consulting to tiny companies.

Brett Johnson:

We've got the systems and the processes and so on to deal

Brett Johnson:

with businesses that have growth potential, even if they're small.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, otherwise mid-size companies.

Brett Johnson:

And then I, I mean, I, I have worked with, and I still work

Brett Johnson:

with governments with, uh.

Brett Johnson:

You know, I've worked with governors with people in federal

Brett Johnson:

government, uh, universities, et cetera, so I'm not allergic to that.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, but my sweet spot is the marketplace.

Tim Winders:

I, I'm curious, Brett, I've, I've run into this some

Tim Winders:

myself and then I wonder, I'll ask questions like you just brought up.

Tim Winders:

Are we not equipping and preparing some people for success or at times

Tim Winders:

I wonder if we have a mismatch?

Tim Winders:

So I'll, maybe I'll ask it this way.

Tim Winders:

You've got three fairly distinct groups and there's some overlap with

Tim Winders:

skillsets and obviously different things and, and obviously some

Tim Winders:

cultures and countries impacted also.

Tim Winders:

But I'm curious, Brett, how often have you seen that someone.

Tim Winders:

Is working towards, and maybe even struggling to be an entrepreneur and

Tim Winders:

do a startup and maybe bootstrapping and all of those things when maybe

Tim Winders:

they should just have a role and go work in a larger organization, either

Tim Winders:

a mid-market or a large company.

Tim Winders:

I, I, I've seen that a little bit recently and I've, and I've, I, I

Tim Winders:

sort of know how to handle it, but sometimes we can fool ourselves.

Tim Winders:

So, ha, have you seen that and what are your thoughts on it when I bring that up?

Brett Johnson:

my thought is a good observation.

Brett Johnson:

You know, as I've said to some people, don't try to change the world if you

Brett Johnson:

don't know how to change your socks.

Brett Johnson:

So I think that there are some early years you, you're in your family and your, your,

Brett Johnson:

your dad says, take out the trash or mow the lawn, or do a paper route or, and have

Brett Johnson:

a lemonade stand and you do a bit of stuff and you get, you get a bit of education.

Brett Johnson:

And sometimes we want to go from there to becoming an entrepreneur

Brett Johnson:

that's gonna change the world.

Brett Johnson:

I read a survey many years ago, about 80% of people at college want

Brett Johnson:

to start their own business, but actually a really small percentage do.

Brett Johnson:

And so there's a huge drop off.

Brett Johnson:

Part of it is that you can be an entrepreneur, you can work

Brett Johnson:

inside a company, and you can learn, you can do skills building.

Brett Johnson:

So if we understand the seasons of life that there's a season

Brett Johnson:

of skill building, there's a ski season of gift discovery, and a

Brett Johnson:

corporate is a good place to do that.

Brett Johnson:

You know, you learn the disciplines, you learn how to communicate, how

Brett Johnson:

to handle yourself in meetings, how to do stuff on a timely basis.

Brett Johnson:

You learn some basic disciplines and skills.

Brett Johnson:

So I think that that's good.

Brett Johnson:

I would say the one thing that you can do is you can get a side hustle.

Brett Johnson:

This didn't used to be so popular 10 years ago, but now the thought of.

Brett Johnson:

Doing something.

Brett Johnson:

I used to say, look, get a job that's consistent with your purpose, with

Brett Johnson:

your identity, with your calling.

Brett Johnson:

Now, I would say yeah, have that in your mind, but maybe

Brett Johnson:

start a bit of a side hustle.

Brett Johnson:

Maybe you're, uh, in college and you, you're building apps or

Brett Johnson:

WebP pages or, or bots or you've installing vending machines in the

Brett Johnson:

dormitories or whatever it might be.

Brett Johnson:

Doesn't, it doesn't have to be sexy, flashy software.

Brett Johnson:

You are driving Uber, you're doing something else, but you're building

Brett Johnson:

up direct sales is a great way to go.

Brett Johnson:

You're selling Cutco knives to all your mom's friends.

Brett Johnson:

You're, uh, you're selling something because you learn some basic things.

Brett Johnson:

So taking the opportunity to learn some of those things along the way.

Brett Johnson:

And then also not being too picky about the work.

Brett Johnson:

You know, I was chatting to an Uber driver last time we came to South Africa.

Brett Johnson:

He's a guy from Malawi or somewhere like that.

Brett Johnson:

He's worked like a dog and his son has been to university.

Brett Johnson:

The son has an engineering degree.

Brett Johnson:

I said, oh, is your, where's your son working?

Brett Johnson:

No, he's not working.

Brett Johnson:

Why not?

Brett Johnson:

Well, he is had job offers, but he doesn't think they're offering him enough.

Brett Johnson:

I mean, the guy has zero experience, you know?

Brett Johnson:

And so don't be a legend in your own bathtub.

Brett Johnson:

Just get on and do the work.

Brett Johnson:

Do something.

Brett Johnson:

And so, yeah, I, I think that there's a progressive journey and then what

Brett Johnson:

you do as you go from your household years, your educational years,

Brett Johnson:

you get some corporate experience, your years of slavery if you like.

Brett Johnson:

Then you have some entrepreneurial time, and then you build capital

Brett Johnson:

in its different forms depending on how you wire, you build capital

Brett Johnson:

and then you're able to be a world changer, a societal transformer.

Brett Johnson:

So along this journey, as we've seen people, yeah.

Brett Johnson:

You don't go from high school to being world changer very often.

Brett Johnson:

It's very, very rare.

Brett Johnson:

Typically, you go through a process.

Brett Johnson:

And so that's my observation on that.

Brett Johnson:

And if you expect that God's gonna take you through seasons, then you're not.

Brett Johnson:

I mean, I've had a lot of people they don't know, oh, what's my calling?

Brett Johnson:

What?

Brett Johnson:

What's my purpose?

Brett Johnson:

I'm like, what season are you in?

Brett Johnson:

And what is your next season?

Brett Johnson:

You ask God what your next season is.

Brett Johnson:

You step into your next season and the bigger purpose might be

Brett Johnson:

something that unveils over time.

Tim Winders:

I, I do think we have a very, I think the joke is a microwave

Tim Winders:

mindset where people expect instant this, instant that, and these are even people

Tim Winders:

that have studied, they know scripture.

Tim Winders:

They know that Moses spent 40 years in the desert.

Tim Winders:

They know that, Joseph was a prisoner for X number of years.

Tim Winders:

They know that Jesus technically didn't start a ministry till he was 30.

Tim Winders:

Yet we all think that it doesn't apply to us and that we're supposed to, pop

Tim Winders:

open a church or start a company or open up a, a social media channel and have

Tim Winders:

a million followers within whatever.

Tim Winders:

And I guess that does happen, but not, not that much.

Tim Winders:

Brett, probably most of our listeners would fall into that, mid-market,

Tim Winders:

business owner category or entrepreneurs.

Tim Winders:

We've just got a few minutes here.

Tim Winders:

What I'd love for you to do is just, and I'm gonna let you to allow the Holy

Tim Winders:

Spirit, maybe even to give you, obviously we don't have a lot of information, and

Tim Winders:

this might be a good opportunity for you to share some resources that you have.

Tim Winders:

But what is something in the time we have that you would just like to

Tim Winders:

convey to maybe those groups that, uh, that might be helpful and tangible

Tim Winders:

for them in the next few minutes?

Brett Johnson:

That's a good question, Tim.

Brett Johnson:

First thing I would say is be bold.

Brett Johnson:

This is not a time to back down.

Brett Johnson:

We are going through big changes in society and part of the changes and

Brett Johnson:

the pressures that we've gone through with the pandemic, with the economic

Brett Johnson:

challenges and so on is to beat onto your turtle shell or your tortoise

Brett Johnson:

shell to get you to shrink back.

Brett Johnson:

And this is not a time to shrink back.

Brett Johnson:

This is a time for us to be bold.

Brett Johnson:

Uh, recently I was, uh, praying a prayer like in the last week, God help, and the

Brett Johnson:

reply was stand and that, and, and so a few days in a row I heard the stand.

Brett Johnson:

So I looked up to stand in the scripture and I found that

Brett Johnson:

there were four places to stand.

Brett Johnson:

One was to stand in the presence of God.

Brett Johnson:

And it's an amazing thing.

Brett Johnson:

So when we this as we, we are under pressure, stand

Brett Johnson:

in the presence of God next.

Brett Johnson:

And it goes with a stand on high places.

Brett Johnson:

Don't be afraid to step into the place that God has given you.

Brett Johnson:

And then you have to stand in the face of your enemy.

Brett Johnson:

So when the enemy comes in like a flood, the spirit of

Brett Johnson:

God will raise up a standard.

Brett Johnson:

So we have to stand in the face of the enemy.

Brett Johnson:

And then the fourth one, which is kind of what we get to, that he causes

Brett Johnson:

us to stand in a wide open place.

Brett Johnson:

He puts wide ground, be beneath our feet, but we don't get there unless

Brett Johnson:

we make a determination to stand.

Brett Johnson:

So for business owners, entrepreneurs, this is not a time to be shrinking back.

Brett Johnson:

So I would encourage you next, get with a community of people that are

Brett Johnson:

like-minded faith community as you have among your listed listeners.

Brett Johnson:

And so people who will spur you on and say, you can do more.

Brett Johnson:

Go for it.

Brett Johnson:

You're not crazy.

Brett Johnson:

You're not alone.

Brett Johnson:

Then I would say get equipped.

Brett Johnson:

it's a little bit like becoming a parent.

Brett Johnson:

Before Lynn and I had our children, you sort of think, I can make a baby.

Brett Johnson:

I will be a good father.

Brett Johnson:

It's pretty stupid.

Brett Johnson:

You know, you, you have to learn some stuff.

Brett Johnson:

And so it's like I'm a Christian and I'm in business, therefore

Brett Johnson:

I have a kingdom business.

Brett Johnson:

No, you don't.

Brett Johnson:

You know, we have to understand what is a kingdom business.

Brett Johnson:

You know, how do you get products that are inspired by God?

Brett Johnson:

How do you have marketing that demonstrates signs and wonders?

Brett Johnson:

Because God markets through signs and wonders.

Brett Johnson:

How do you hear God in your planning process?

Brett Johnson:

How do you put plans together that have a faith element in them,

Brett Johnson:

which if God doesn't come through, you're gonna fall on your face?

Brett Johnson:

These are basic things, so get the education.

Brett Johnson:

And part of what we've done is taken thousands of people through what

Brett Johnson:

some have called a Kingdom, MBA.

Brett Johnson:

It's really a.

Brett Johnson:

An MBA from a business perspective because we shouldn't go cheap on

Brett Johnson:

learning how to do business God's way.

Brett Johnson:

John 1515 says, I no longer call you servants because a servant doesn't

Brett Johnson:

understand the master's business.

Brett Johnson:

But everything that the master showed me, I've revealed to you.

Brett Johnson:

So my slimed down version of that is, if you don't know that your dad's

Brett Johnson:

business, you're not his friend.

Brett Johnson:

So if you don't know God's business, what's his operating model?

Brett Johnson:

What's his business model?

Brett Johnson:

And God challenged me once, 'cause I have this 10 P profile for a business.

Brett Johnson:

And God said to me, profile my business.

Brett Johnson:

Can you imagine going to heaven interviewing God for half an hour?

Brett Johnson:

And you've gotta come back and say, this is God's business.

Brett Johnson:

And so I went through the thought process.

Brett Johnson:

So now when I look at.

Brett Johnson:

Business A and God's business.

Brett Johnson:

I can just see where the similarities are and where the disconnects and

Brett Johnson:

then a has to reconcile to be.

Brett Johnson:

This is to God.

Brett Johnson:

This is our ministry of reconciliation.

Brett Johnson:

So get to understand God's business and then figure out how your

Brett Johnson:

business fits into God's business.

Brett Johnson:

I don't care if you wanna make a new widget, you want to build

Brett Johnson:

in new houses in Kenya, you want to go here, you want to do that.

Brett Johnson:

The question is, is your business in God's business?

Brett Johnson:

Not is God in your business.

Brett Johnson:

That's not the question.

Brett Johnson:

But is your business in God's business?

Brett Johnson:

What's God doing in the world?

Brett Johnson:

That's the transforming society piece.

Brett Johnson:

What are, how do you fit into that?

Brett Johnson:

That's getting your business repurposed or aligned with the purpose, God's purpose

Brett Johnson:

so that you can do what's on God's heart.

Brett Johnson:

And so those would be my 2 cents.

Brett Johnson:

Quick things, Tim.

Tim Winders:

That was, that was so good.

Tim Winders:

I'm so thankful that I got a nudge to ask that question because I, I can

Tim Winders:

envision so many clips and information just from that little segment, Brett.

Tim Winders:

Alright, so someone should, in all likelihood say I, I,

Tim Winders:

I love that, but I need more.

Tim Winders:

Where do you want people to go if they want more of what you just

Tim Winders:

brought up or just more of what you have available as far as resources?

Tim Winders:

I've, I've been to your site, but go ahead and mention it or anything else

Tim Winders:

that you want to mention at this point.

Tim Winders:

That would be a great resource for

Brett Johnson:

Thanks Tim.

Brett Johnson:

I would say go to Brett johnson dot bizz.

Brett Johnson:

Do b iz or.bz, depending if you speak English or American.

Brett Johnson:

So, so Brett Johnson do bizz and there's a right on the front, there's a question

Brett Johnson:

of what resources are good for you and it really depends on your question.

Brett Johnson:

If you say, I'm just starting out in my career, uh, there's

Brett Johnson:

some questions for you.

Brett Johnson:

I want to figure out how to integrate the parts of my life

Brett Johnson:

that'll take you to convert.

Brett Johnson:

You know, I wanna start a business that'll take you lemon preneur.

Brett Johnson:

I have a mid-market company and I wanna make sure that I've, I've connected

Brett Johnson:

all of the dots and so forth, and it'll take you to the repurposing

Brett Johnson:

business, or I'm, I'm part of a team, or I want to grow as a leader.

Brett Johnson:

It'll take you to lemon leadership.

Brett Johnson:

so if you go to that question page, which resource for you,

Brett Johnson:

just look at the questions.

Brett Johnson:

And then every now and then we schedule trainings that you can be part of.

Brett Johnson:

We have one coming up on Lemon Preneur for, for entrepreneurs or

Brett Johnson:

people who want to do something that might be entrepreneurs or have a

Brett Johnson:

mind to do something entrepreneurial.

Brett Johnson:

You might not even be an entrepreneur.

Brett Johnson:

According to our studies.

Brett Johnson:

Only about 15% of people are, but how do you be part of a team that

Brett Johnson:

can create co-create with God?

Brett Johnson:

So I would look at those resources.

Brett Johnson:

Brett johnson.best.

Brett Johnson:

We do have podcasts, so I put out podcasts.

Brett Johnson:

every now and then, it's supposed to be every week, but

Brett Johnson:

every couple of weeks or so.

Brett Johnson:

So there's a couple of hundred podcasts there, and then I'll also, you'll

Brett Johnson:

find a blog spot and so on, but we'll, we'll advertise once you go onto

Brett Johnson:

the, there's some free resources, so there's some kingdom business basics.

Brett Johnson:

Just go through some, you can download them, watch a bit of a video.

Brett Johnson:

There's a PDF.

Brett Johnson:

You can download just 15 things, which should be self-evident.

Brett Johnson:

Go and get those.

Brett Johnson:

We have an introductory class, and that class is, the cost is whatever

Brett Johnson:

you want to pay, starting at zero.

Brett Johnson:

So you say, okay, fine.

Brett Johnson:

I don't know who this Brett guy is, if he stuff stuff is any good, and so on.

Brett Johnson:

There's a kingdom business basics.

Brett Johnson:

What's the history of God in business, work, in ministry, all of that stuff.

Brett Johnson:

The history of what God's done over time.

Brett Johnson:

You can look at those things and that's essentially a freebie.

Brett Johnson:

Or you can pay whatever you want to pay.

Brett Johnson:

That's fine, and then you can, you, you'll see the other classes that are there.

Brett Johnson:

I would say get equipped, get it, get mobilized.

Brett Johnson:

And the connection between these disparate audiences is I can take people

Brett Johnson:

outta Silicon Valley or Chicago or New York or London or whatever, and I

Brett Johnson:

can take them to somewhere else in the world they've been trained to serve.

Brett Johnson:

So their corporate experience serves a mid-market person

Brett Johnson:

or somebody doing a startup.

Brett Johnson:

And so they're blessed to be a blessing.

Brett Johnson:

They take in everything that God's packed into their life, their MBA,

Brett Johnson:

their engineering degree, their marketing, their hr, all of that stuff.

Brett Johnson:

And they feeding it into somebody else's life and through the life of that leader

Brett Johnson:

into their people, it's a huge multiplier.

Brett Johnson:

And so, you know, if you're sitting in a corporate and I'm, you know, you're called

Brett Johnson:

to work at Bank of America, fantastic.

Brett Johnson:

Well go and serve in another nation somewhere else.

Brett Johnson:

Go and serve one of those mid-market people, and that mid-market person is

Brett Johnson:

gonna spin off entrepreneurs as well.

Brett Johnson:

It's a way in which you can connect the ecosystem.

Tim Winders:

We'll include links and everything down in the notes.

Tim Winders:

Brett, we're seek, go create here.

Tim Winders:

Those three words, I'm sure you could guess where those three words originated.

Tim Winders:

And I'm gonna let you choose my final question.

Tim Winders:

Just choose one that resonates more with you currently than the other two.

Tim Winders:

And why seek go or

Brett Johnson:

Go is mine.

Brett Johnson:

And the reason why I'm after go is this is because I, I see Jesus as quite binary.

Brett Johnson:

It's go or get behind me.

Brett Johnson:

Those are your choices, you know?

Brett Johnson:

So it's go into all the world, make disciples of all nations.

Brett Johnson:

Go to this village, go to this place.

Brett Johnson:

Or if you're trying to stop me going, get behind me.

Brett Johnson:

But we've created this false third category, which is sit

Brett Johnson:

in front of your computer.

Brett Johnson:

Sit in your armchair, uh, be a Monday morning quarterback, criticize the

Brett Johnson:

people who aren't going very well.

Brett Johnson:

You know, criticize the people who don't like Jesus or whatever.

Brett Johnson:

No, but there is no third option for me.

Brett Johnson:

For me, the going is imperative.

Brett Johnson:

And so for me, my passion is not to train people, have them

Brett Johnson:

read all my books or whatever.

Brett Johnson:

No, I wanna mobilize people because they'll come alive when they're deploying.

Brett Johnson:

Truth.

Brett Johnson:

For me, truth in somebody's head just makes them more religious.

Brett Johnson:

Truth practiced, even with failure makes them more dangerous.

Brett Johnson:

And, uh, it's awesome.

Brett Johnson:

So for me, the go is a big deal.

Brett Johnson:

And, uh, I mean, I get up in the morning and my wheels are going, and for me

Brett Johnson:

it's like, have your passport ready.

Brett Johnson:

Make sure your bag is packed.

Brett Johnson:

I const, my bag is always packed.

Brett Johnson:

I'm always ready to go.

Brett Johnson:

I travel fairly light nowadays, but I'm always ready to go.

Brett Johnson:

My passport is up to date.

Brett Johnson:

Because that's our mandate.

Brett Johnson:

You need a call from God to stay, not a call from God to go.

Brett Johnson:

So for me, it's go to go.

Tim Winders:

Oh, Brett, man, you've encouraged myself and I'm

Tim Winders:

sure others that have listened in.

Tim Winders:

I appreciate that.

Tim Winders:

Make sure you check out all of Brett's stuff.

Tim Winders:

We'll include links to his page and all that they have, so go check that out.

Tim Winders:

We are seek GoCreate here.

Tim Winders:

We release new episodes every Monday.

Tim Winders:

Your support means the world to us.

Tim Winders:

Now you can tip us, buy me a coffee, or offer some financial

Tim Winders:

support to the show here.

Tim Winders:

Just go to seek go create.com/support.

Tim Winders:

You can start as.

Tim Winders:

Contributing as little as a dollar.

Tim Winders:

And if you leave a comment, your comment could be featured in a future episode,

Tim Winders:

go to seek go create.com/support.

Tim Winders:

Until next time, I've so enjoyed this conversation.

Tim Winders:

Until next time, continue being all that you were created to be.

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Seek Go Create - Christian Entrepreneurship, Faith-Based Leadership, Spiritual Growth, Purpose-Driven Success, Innovative Leadership, Kingdom Business, Entrepreneurial Mindset, Christian Business Practices, Leadership Development, Impactful Living
Seek Go Create - Christian Entrepreneurship, Faith-Based Leadership, Spiritual Growth, Purpose-Driven Success, Innovative Leadership, Kingdom Business, Entrepreneurial Mindset, Christian Business Practices, Leadership Development, Impactful Living
The Leadership Journey

About your host

Profile picture for Tim Winders

Tim Winders

Tim Winders is a faith driven executive coach and author with over 40 years of experience in leadership, business, and ministry. Through his personal journey of redefining success, he has gained valuable insights on how to align beliefs with work and lead with purpose. He is committed to helping others do the same, running a coaching business that helps leaders, leadership teams, business owners, and entrepreneurs to align their beliefs with their work and redefine success.

In addition to his coaching business, Tim is also the host of the SeekGoCreate podcast and author of the book Coach: A Story of Success Redefined, which provides guidance for those looking to redefine success and align their beliefs with their work. With his extensive background, unique perspective and strengths in strategic thinking, relationship building, and problem-solving, Tim is well-suited to help clients navigate through difficult times and achieve their goals.