Living Out Your Faith: Redefining Church and Embracing Everyday Discipleship with Caesar Kalinowski

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:00:00

It really is a delusion that we're in control of anything.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:00:02

Do you control your wife, Tim, and every opinion she has and action.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:00:06

you've had kids, right?

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Did you control every one of their choices and behaviors?

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do you control your health?

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Do you control your ultimate income?

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the end of your life?

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When's that?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:00:16

No, we don't really control anything.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:00:18

God does, but we live in this sort of false narrative that we are,

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and that, see for me, that traces all the way back to the beginning

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when, what was the first sin?

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they said, what we can manage the knowledge of good and evil and right

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and wrong for ourselves, and we'll create an identity apart from God.

Tim Winders: 00:00:51

Welcome to Seek Go Create.

Tim Winders: 00:00:53

This is where we challenge conventional definitions of success, explore

Tim Winders: 00:00:57

stories of transformation in leadership, business, and ministry.

Tim Winders: 00:01:01

we're gonna be talking to Caesar Kalinowski, a dedicated father,

Tim Winders: 00:01:04

church planner, coach, and bestselling author is impacted thousands of

Tim Winders: 00:01:07

lives all over the world, equipping individuals in discipleship and mission.

Tim Winders: 00:01:13

Caesar, welcome to Seek.

Tim Winders: 00:01:15

Go Create.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:17

Hey Tim, good to be with you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:18

Thanks for having me on.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:19

I'm excited.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:20

Been looking forward to this conversation.

Tim Winders: 00:01:22

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:01:22

I'll tell you what, I think you're the first guy.

Tim Winders: 00:01:24

You know what?

Tim Winders: 00:01:25

No, you're not.

Tim Winders: 00:01:25

You're not the first guy we've had named Caesar.

Tim Winders: 00:01:28

I had a guy that was spelled differently.

Tim Winders: 00:01:30

that's like a strong name.

Tim Winders: 00:01:31

If you've got a name like Caesar, you're strong.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:34

spelling.

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It's like the pizza, the salad, the emperor.

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you know what, it's a family name.

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I'm the third Caesar.

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My son's the fourth.

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My grandson Caesar five, aired to the throne.

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And it turns out I didn't know this most of my life, I had an old buck.

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Guy, a historian, in Poland.

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Tell me, oh, cuz I said, how do these two names go together?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:54

He says, Kalinowski, that's, it's a royal name in, in Poland.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:01:58

And then I had Googled, I knew that somewhere back in history we

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:01

were royalty, whatever that means.

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And and he goes, Kaiser, it's ruler, Kaiser Kalinowski, very regal

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name, very royal name, family name.

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I'm like, oh yeah, it's family name for us.

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And he goes, there you go.

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that's how it works.

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There's a lot of Caesars floating around three living right now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:15

That's my life goal now Tim, is to get to the point where we have

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a photo with four living Caesars.

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It's never happened yet.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:21

So I'm hoping.

Tim Winders: 00:02:23

We don't have as cool of a name in our family, but we had, Kelly

Tim Winders: 00:02:29

was a middle name that my, my grandfather had, my father had, I had, and then my son

Tim Winders: 00:02:34

had, so it was a bunch of, Timothy Kelly, Joshua Kelly, Garland Kelly, all that.

Tim Winders: 00:02:39

And so that was cool.

Tim Winders: 00:02:40

But real quick, I'm getting off.

Tim Winders: 00:02:42

My first question I'll get to in just a moment, but what are the pros and

Tim Winders: 00:02:45

cons of having a name like Caesar?

Tim Winders: 00:02:48

Because my first thought is world ruler, strong leader,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:53

That's me bro.

Tim Winders: 00:02:54

that's you, man.

Tim Winders: 00:02:55

Cool.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:56

it's interesting cuz I, I used before there was all video and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:02:59

everybody knows what you look like and all this, or hear you, they would say, I

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:03:03

just assumed by your name, you were this little short guy chomping on a cigar.

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And I used to hear that all the time.

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It was the weird little combination of stuff.

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it is definitely a strong name.

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it l luckily Kowski is phonetic so people can mostly figure out how to pronounce

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:03:16

it mostly, but, I, it's hard to know what the negatives are, to be honest with you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:03:21

I think it sounds v it ha has to sound very European and I'm gonna come on

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with a LOV accent and you gotta very, and but when you grow up and it's

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generational, it sounds like the most normal thing in the world right now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:03:36

What's interesting is since the invention of Google and the internet,

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nu old books can kinda remember when this stuff all started.

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you know what?

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Because I am an author and speaker and got zillions of videos and

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all that stuff, you can Google my name and a lot of stuff comes up.

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But now my son, who's an attorney and he's become quite a First Amendment

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warrior nationally and well known and quoted and all, now he's coming

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up a lot and I think he's gonna, he's gonna, he's younger, right?

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So he's gonna exceed that.

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So it's fun.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:06

I don't know if the goods or the bads, but I think, we've

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:08

all been strong-willed males.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:10

I'll tell you that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:10

You know

Tim Winders: 00:04:11

you have to own it.

Tim Winders: 00:04:12

And I think there is some degree of, it's decreed what your name is.

Tim Winders: 00:04:15

I think names are important.

Tim Winders: 00:04:16

I'm in the middle of reading in the Old Testament, and they have real

Tim Winders: 00:04:19

meaning, when you go through it.

Tim Winders: 00:04:20

So I, it does conjure up with me.

Tim Winders: 00:04:23

I must admit.

Tim Winders: 00:04:23

I'm sitting here doing my research, I'm studying and I'm going Caesar strong,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:28

here was my father's consternation.

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He had me have a military haircut until I was old enough to rebel against that.

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And and part of what this was is I looked up, I said, do you

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:36

know what the name Caesar means?

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Which is your name?

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And you gave me, it means ruler with long hair.

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I'm growing my hair.

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Dig it, don't dig it.

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and I was playing in a rock band back then, so I was like,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:45

I can't have this haircut.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:46

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:47

Now I'm back to, of course,

Tim Winders: 00:04:48

and I guess you just stay away from the ides of March, right?

Tim Winders: 00:04:51

you don't get bogged down with it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:04:52

my favorite holiday.

Tim Winders: 00:04:54

Not a good day.

Tim Winders: 00:04:54

hey Caesar, we bump into each other like we have here, and I just ask you, or

Tim Winders: 00:05:00

I wanna know more icebreaker question.

Tim Winders: 00:05:02

I ask you what you do.

Tim Winders: 00:05:04

What do you tell people?

Tim Winders: 00:05:05

When people ask what you do,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:07

it depends.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:07

Are you asking as a Christian podcaster, are you asking as a neighbor?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:11

I just met cuz I probably have a slightly different response.

Tim Winders: 00:05:15

me what they are.

Tim Winders: 00:05:16

That's cool though.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:17

I'll tell you how I most often answer people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:19

I just go, I'm an author and a speaker and, my wife and I do some

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:23

coaching as well based on the things we write and, I speak on and if it

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:28

stops there, people are like, oh wow, an author, how's that school?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:30

And they get into the technical side, oh, how'd you get to write books?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:33

whatever.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:34

and it's kinda need to know basis.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:35

And if they go, oh, what do you write about?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:36

Then I go, I write about spirituality and faith lived out in everyday life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:41

And they go, what kind of spirituality or faith?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:43

I said, Christianity, but not so much about the formalized, Evangelical

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:48

complex, per se, but what if we really believe all this and what's it look like

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:52

to live it out, not only just on our Sunday experience, but all throughout

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the week and make that real for us and our family and friends and all.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:05:59

Everybody's always that's so cool.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:06:00

So that's what I do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:06:01

And and but if someone else asks and they're Christian, I go, I write books

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:06:05

about the gospel and discipleship in all of life, and I'm a coach

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:06:10

and I get to travel all over the world and talk about these things.

Tim Winders: 00:06:14

Yeah, what's interesting, I love how you distinguished between

Tim Winders: 00:06:17

the two because I do think it.

Tim Winders: 00:06:18

Depends on the setting.

Tim Winders: 00:06:19

if you're around a bunch of business people, you might just

Tim Winders: 00:06:22

casually mention something, then see if there's additional dialogue.

Tim Winders: 00:06:25

I do similar, but if you're in more of a church setting, one of the things that I

Tim Winders: 00:06:29

think you, you say that people love when you bring up, every day to disciples and

Tim Winders: 00:06:34

how to live out your faith every day.

Tim Winders: 00:06:36

But I, I'm not so convinced that everyone is excited about that.

Tim Winders: 00:06:41

I think that there's a group of people that they want to keep people boxed

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in to the Sunday, maybe a Wednesday.

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So to, to me there's a bit of a contrast between every day

Tim Winders: 00:06:54

disciple and I'll call it the religious or church world out there.

Tim Winders: 00:06:59

Am I reading something?

Tim Winders: 00:07:01

Ha.

Tim Winders: 00:07:01

Have you ever seen that?

Tim Winders: 00:07:02

I bet you have.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:05

let me just so I can answer accurately, Tim, who do you think

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:07

is the pe who are you putting in the wants to keep people in the Sunday box?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:11

Who do you think's that?

Tim Winders: 00:07:13

I would say,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:14

The complex.

Tim Winders: 00:07:15

Yeah, let's call it the man or the system, the

Tim Winders: 00:07:17

complex, the religious system.

Tim Winders: 00:07:20

I call it church world at times.

Tim Winders: 00:07:23

and it probably has a little bit of a cynicism tone to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:26

I find it very rare that anybody is gonna speak, from within

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:29

the system, you know, against, hey, living out your faith in everyday life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:33

That's what they say.

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you drive out the church building and it says you're entering

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your mission field, right?

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Those signs, you know all this stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:39

No one's really speaking against it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:41

However, I have, I run into this pretty much every single day is when

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:46

you get to the thing behind the thing and they start to read our stuff or

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listen to the podcast, they pretty quickly see that we're fine, love

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:54

Sunday, let's get together, let's gather, let's worship all that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:07:57

But they realize that we go, but the six days and 22 hours that are left

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:00

over that, that out balances that two hours of sitting in rows in silence.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:06

How do we live this out every day?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:08

And then they go, yeah, that's what we gotta get our people to do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:10

And I said, Faster, or elder or whatever.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:12

That starts with you and your family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:14

Living with an open home, having people in, learning a gospel fluency

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:18

where you can speak the good news to all of life, not just people's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:21

afterlife upgrade and all that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:23

And then that's when it, that's when the conversation goes, pivot often.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:28

And I don't mean it to be polemic, but I've learned that it is

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:32

inherently polemic because it begins to be compared and contrasted.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:36

what's wrong with the way we're doing it?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:38

It's nothing but if that's it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:41

I'm certain a hundred percent as an old brother that Jesus didn't come and die.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:45

So we could sit and rows in silence for an hour or two a week.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:49

I'm certain it was meant to be more than that, just having read the whole

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:52

book and then I don't want to give away the story, but I have read all the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:56

way to the end of the book and we win.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:08:57

Like it's all getting restored.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:00

This is how it's gonna be, and we get to be a part of that whole thing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:03

Now, Jesus said, on earth, as it is in heaven, ask Dad for that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:07

we're gonna, and what we've found is when you live this way and you live

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:10

expectantly, Hey, maybe what Jesus said and lived is real and we can do it now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:15

You get to, turns out we get to, and I, and no, I have seen

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:19

and no, but we've not conceived.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:20

How awesome is when it's all consummated and heaven happens fully,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:24

but it's, I think life's pretty awesome now in light of what Christ

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:29

has done for us and now having his spirit and being the family of God.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:09:33

Oh, so yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:09:35

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:09:35

What's your progression been because you, in.

Tim Winders: 00:09:38

Your in, in your information.

Tim Winders: 00:09:39

You've got church planner and I believe some of your history is, we'll call it

Tim Winders: 00:09:44

being a part of that traditional system and what you just brought up and I agree

Tim Winders: 00:09:51

that there's probably or can be some uncomfortableness with people in that

Tim Winders: 00:09:55

traditional system with what you're doing, what I, what we're doing here too.

Tim Winders: 00:09:59

And I went to Bible school for a few years.

Tim Winders: 00:10:01

I've been around churches.

Tim Winders: 00:10:02

I love what goes on in church.

Tim Winders: 00:10:05

What I don't like is when sometimes people begin building their

Tim Winders: 00:10:08

kingdom instead of God's kingdom.

Tim Winders: 00:10:10

And we see that quite often.

Tim Winders: 00:10:11

But what's been your progression?

Tim Winders: 00:10:13

How have you ended up to this place you are now where you're helping people in a

Tim Winders: 00:10:18

daily walk, which does sound a lot like the first century church by the way.

Tim Winders: 00:10:24

Just, I just want to observe that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:26

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:27

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna super compress the beginning of the story and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:29

I'll take a little more time in the, maybe the parts that are more relevant today.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:33

So I was, I've been going to church since I was like a

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:36

zygote, like in my mother's womb.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:38

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:38

Boom.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:38

And that's what we used to call it going to church, and no one taught

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:42

that our identity is, you either are the church or you're not.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:44

But we went to this building that we called the church and, did church.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:48

And so I did that my whole life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:49

around 18, the whole, lifestyle of sex, drugs and Roth and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:54

roll kicked in pretty good.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:55

Moved outta the house and I was like, and done with that too.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:10:58

So I didn't go to church anymore for a little while.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:02

God super got ahold of my heart, my life, through an actual

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:06

message on Gospel and Kingdom.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:08

when I was about 25, my wife and I.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:10

On the same night at a Christian retreat that I don't even know why, I agreed to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:14

go to, heard a message about Lordship and Kingdom and God transformed us and we got

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:19

back to our hotel room at this retreat that I still didn't know I was there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:23

And, I said to my wife, I said, I gotta tell you something.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:25

She goes no, I need to tell you something.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:26

And I said, no, me first.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:28

And I told her, I said, listen, Jesus is Lord, I want him to be Lord.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:30

I wanna be Lord of our family, our marriage.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:32

I don't know.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:32

I'm ruining us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:33

I don't know what we're doing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:34

And she goes, me too.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:35

That's what happened tonight.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:36

So on that same night, we had this grace upon us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:40

And from that night to today, it's been a straight line of we're in, it was

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:43

never, we never got real Luke Warmy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:45

It was like, we're in, sign us up for everything, now jump way ahead.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:50

We're, my wife and I are serial entrepreneurs.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:52

We've owned and operated many businesses.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:55

Dozens actually.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:56

And, at 40.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:11:58

Running a very successful publishing business.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:01

I got the call to the pastorate, God, almost audibly said, Hey,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:05

you're gonna be a pastor now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:06

And I was like, okay, you're God.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:08

So I say, yes, but I'm not one.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:11

So how's that gonna happen?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:12

And, now me, so I said yes, and he worked out some just miraculous

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:17

things with my business partners and all, and how it worked out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:20

And all of a sudden I was extricated from a lot of responsibility and I

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:23

had a huge severance package and I was free, but I wasn't a pastor yet, but

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:27

God was still working on this, took a whole 90 days before I was actually

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:30

hired on at the megachurch as a pastor.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:32

It was weird, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:34

but along the way, and this is where I'll slow it down a little bit.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:37

Along the way, I had been doing quite a lot of international missions travel,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:43

not this is gonna sound derogatory, not the Weekend warrior missions trip

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:47

where you go and you stack bricks on a building, and help out for a few

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:50

days and then you do some beach and then you hand out some tracks in the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:53

city square and you head home it was like, God was taking us to like war

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:12:57

zones and where there was Christian persecution happening horribly and natural

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:01

disasters and whenever it was crazy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:03

And whenever we were there, a couple things.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:05

One was, God had me read the book of Acts.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:08

It was always like, Hey, your trip time with me.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:10

Read the book Acts.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:12

And after a while, that just became the pattern over the years.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:15

Cause I did a lot of this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:16

Every time I was on the road internationally, I started reading

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:18

the book Acts over and over.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:20

God's pretty awesome.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:21

What was happening is like when we were with the church in.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:26

Sudan or Burma in the bush or whatever.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:29

The church had nothing, Tim.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:30

no things like the word nothing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:32

No things like almost no clothing in many cases.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:35

Homes, no.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:36

food.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:36

Optional.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:38

And yet the church, the people, cuz they didn't have buildings or any of that

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:41

were so beautiful and so full of joy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:44

Even as they told us stories of great persecution and crazy

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:48

stuff, they were enduring.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:50

And I remember like thinking, wow, like for the last several

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:54

weeks we've been in the bush.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:56

Being the church.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:13:58

And then by the miracle of flight, I'd fly home and like within 24 hours,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:03

48 hours, I'm driving up the Dr.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:06

Giant driveway to the mega ranch, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:09

Guys are with the vests and the orange cones, and they're parking us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:13

And I'm getting sent to the overflow lot and I'm like, Hey, put the window down.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:16

You see who this is?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:17

I'm not parking back there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:18

I'm wor I'm, come on, you saw me up there, and it was like this evil heart.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:22

And it was like, now I'm back and I'm head of production.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:26

So it's like headsets, huge.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:28

Team lights, camera action.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:30

Tim, camera three.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:31

You're little slow on camera three.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:32

you gotta tip that up a little sooner.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:33

We need a little more smoke on the left side of the stage.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:35

Literally.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:36

Literally, bro.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:37

All that stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:38

and the contrast of what I had just come from, and now what I was experiencing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:44

It got bigger and wider and thicker and deeper trip after trip.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:48

And this all started before I was even on staff, at the mega ranch.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:52

And, eventually this question started to arise.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:57

And I know other Christians have had this question.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:14:58

you've done short term missions.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:00

You're like, man, this was crazy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:02

we didn't know these people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:03

We didn't like the smells.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:04

The food was weird, but man, what an experience.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:06

And we pulled together and we saw God do some crazy stuff and in us, and you come

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:10

back and you go, wouldn't it be crazy if we just lived that way all the time?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:14

Wouldn't it be just amazing?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:16

And then we just, God said, then too.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:20

Like I said, Lord, I would give everything I have to have the joy they have in you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:23

And he goes, then do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:24

And so long story short that, that megachurch, my wife and I were both

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:28

on staff there, so were some other friends of ours, and we ended up moving

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:32

out to Tacoma, Washington to live like missionaries in another country called

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:35

Tacoma and said, what if we live that way?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:39

I don't know, what do you do when you move to another country if you're going

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:41

there to plant the gospel and see what God does with it and transforms community?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:46

We just started to get to know people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:48

We lived with an open home, which we already did.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:50

we got to know everybody's names.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:52

We worked locally.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:53

We were in cafes all the time.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:15:55

I got known as the pub pastor cuz I just hung out in my locals all the time and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:00

people would figure out who you were.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:01

And then I listen, pastor, I need to talk to you about something.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:04

All right, let's go.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:05

You're buying, and we started to make disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:08

We're making disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:09

And when people come to faith that way, in community that way, very

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:13

different than worst day of my life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:15

I raised my hand, I said to Jesus in my heart, prayer about my afterlife,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:19

and I'm hoping to God my wife will take me back, kind of thing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:21

God cares about all that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:22

I'm not dis, I'm not belittling that, but when a person walks in the ways of

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:27

Jesus in community over months and years with you and comes to trust Jesus in more

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:32

and more areas of their life, that it's a very different type of Christian and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:37

they're like, man, I gotta get my sister into this and my mom wants to hang out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:40

Is that cool?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:40

I'm like, of course it is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:41

we're a family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:41

And so that, that's how that whole sort of transition happened.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:45

And so we're not anti and the way anybody wants to gather it up and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:48

all that, but if the ways we gather and program and fund get in the way

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:55

of the only mission Jesus gave us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:16:58

As the church, as his family go and make disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:17:02

then I think we get to question some of that,

Tim Winders: 00:17:04

I wanna come back to this disciple, but I wanna, that unique pers.

Tim Winders: 00:17:08

Perspective is so cool Caesar, because some people never experienced that.

Tim Winders: 00:17:14

they walk in the doors of their church, small, big, mega, whatever,

Tim Winders: 00:17:20

and they go there every week and they never go anywhere else.

Tim Winders: 00:17:23

My wife and I have traveled quite a bit and so we've visited

Tim Winders: 00:17:26

churches in a lot of places.

Tim Winders: 00:17:28

We've seen some of the things you're talking about.

Tim Winders: 00:17:30

We weren't necessarily on missions trips, but I think it's interesting

Tim Winders: 00:17:34

to see different contrast in just the way people do what we'll

Tim Winders: 00:17:37

call more traditional church.

Tim Winders: 00:17:40

And you brought up the word joy, and so I want to dig a little bit on that word.

Tim Winders: 00:17:46

you brought up what?

Tim Winders: 00:17:49

Many people possibly listening to this that are probably first

Tim Winders: 00:17:52

world, probably United States.

Tim Winders: 00:17:54

We've got people in other parts of the world, but a lot of United

Tim Winders: 00:17:57

States listeners, they probably are sitting in a place with it.

Tim Winders: 00:18:02

They're not in an RV like me, but they've got probably multiple TV screens.

Tim Winders: 00:18:07

They probably got multiple vehicles, and they probably have some degree of

Tim Winders: 00:18:13

stress or lack of joy in their life.

Tim Winders: 00:18:15

And they may be going to some of those churches you talk about.

Tim Winders: 00:18:17

But yet you went to those places where people probably had none of the things

Tim Winders: 00:18:22

I just brought up, but yet they are allowed to gather and worship the Lord.

Tim Winders: 00:18:30

I don't wanna say it's pure, but maybe that's a word.

Tim Winders: 00:18:35

What's up?

Tim Winders: 00:18:36

What?

Tim Winders: 00:18:36

Why do we lack so much joy when all of a sudden we have all of

Tim Winders: 00:18:42

these things that, That distract us all these other treasures.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:18:46

Yeah, maybe there's your answer in that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:18:49

I said, Hey, there's times when I don't have joy in my life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:18:51

There's times when, I'm not feeling blessed, even though

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:18:55

I'm immensely blessed, or I get myopically worried about first world

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:18:59

problems and things that really are adventures and missing the point.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:02

And I'm not sovereign.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:03

I don't get to control that stuff, what I've learned though is that I can almost

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:07

always pretty quickly now draw a line back to what's the thing behind the thing?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:13

And it's, I'm not believing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:15

Who God is and what he has said is now true of us because of Christ, our

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:19

identity, our authority, our privilege.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:22

And I'm tr I'm living basically in a delusional that I'm controlling

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:26

this or I'm, I'm in charge of this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:28

It really is a delusion that we're in control of anything.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:30

Do you control your wife, Tim, and every opinion she has and action.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:34

you've had kids, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:36

Did you control every one of their choices and behaviors?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:39

do you control your health?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:41

Do you control your ultimate income?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:43

the end of your life?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:44

When's that?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:45

No, we don't really control anything.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:47

God does, but we live in this sort of false narrative that we are,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:51

and that, see for me, that traces all the way back to the beginning

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:54

when, what was the first sin?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:56

they said, what we can manage the knowledge of good and evil and right

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:19:59

and wrong for ourselves, and we'll create an identity apart from God.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:03

Watch this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:03

That's the same thing that's going on in my heart often.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:08

And I think when the church.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:10

Dropped the gospel narrative for the afterlife upgrade gospel when they

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:16

dropped the narrative of discipleship, which is moving from unbelief to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:19

belief in every area of the gospel.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:22

moving from lies to truth about who God is, what he's done in Christ, and what's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:27

now true of us, and how we get to live.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:29

When we lost that for a, we gotta get everybody to say a prayer about their

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:34

afterlife, and Christianity became about sin management and behavioral

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:38

modification, now we're left with the law.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:42

We're left with, okay, I guess my ticket's been punched, but

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:45

my job now is to try to sin less between now when Jesus comes back.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:51

Is that really what this is about?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:52

Let me talk to my neighbors and see if that sounds like good news.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:54

Nope.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:55

Not to them.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:55

So I won't talk to them about that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:20:57

and so now if I'm living under that same tyranny and I'm not living out of my

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:01

true identity, then I'm still left with.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:05

Back to the original sin, managing the knowledge of good and evil and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:09

building an identity for myself.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:11

And you know what ticks me off, Tim, is when you don't salute my identity,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:15

when I'm doing my best to put the glory up there for your brother and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:18

you're like, no, not digging it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:20

And I go, that Tim guy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:21

You know what I mean?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:23

Or when my wife is not going along with my sovereignty, in the house or my

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:28

now adult kids go, I don't know, dad.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:29

I don't think so.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:30

I think that's wrong.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:31

I don't think that's the way we wanna be doing that, then, and I

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:34

get consternation over that and I get all chipped out about it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:38

What's going on?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:38

I am not believing what's true about God and what's really true about myself.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:44

And I think that's the thing behind the thing of where all of her lack of joy

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:49

or stress or all this stuff comes from.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:51

And like I said, I still experience it all the time, but it comes from unbelief.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:55

Roman says this, it says that all sin comes from unbelief.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:21:58

Sins not the action.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:00

Hey, I hollered at Tina today.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:01

My, to my wife or whatever.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:02

I was really rude to her.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:04

The act, that's not the sin.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:05

The sin is the unbelief behind it of who God is, who he's made her to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:09

be, who He's made me to be And I am I living in light of that, see, the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:13

most natural way we can lift him is to live out of our true identity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:17

Think about that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:18

This is who I am.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:20

I get to be, I don't prop that up.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:22

I didn't create it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:23

I don't sustain it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:25

I'm completely loved in just who I am.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:28

Do to be that do, to be distortion of what you do equals who you are and your value.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:34

That's not true.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:34

That's a lie.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:35

that's called the beast in scripture.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:37

when we start to move beyond that, then there's real joy and freedom.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:42

And I think to tie it all the way back when we were with the church

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:45

in a war zone or whether it's great Christian persecution and they,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:49

there's no due to be, in fact, if they do, they will be persecuted.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:53

They're, they're being, they're saying, yeah, my, my brother was

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:56

chopped to death and thrown in a fire in front of me by Muslim.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:22:59

militants cuz we're Christians and they still have great joy in their life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:03

I'm so grateful to God though he's better than me and he's providing

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:06

him like, oh my god, this is crazy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:07

Right.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:09

I, I think what it's going on there is they believe who God is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:13

He's their only hope.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:14

They get that, and from that comes that peace that passes understanding.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:20

You're like, I'd be kicked off if I had to live in a mud hut.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:23:23

And half my family was, killed because of our faith.

Tim Winders: 00:23:25

And they're also, I love the fact that you've mentioned identity

Tim Winders: 00:23:28

twice because I, I think that there's a bit of a crisis in identity in the

Tim Winders: 00:23:36

world because people are questioning it.

Tim Winders: 00:23:40

There are a lot of people that claim to be Christians and followers of Christ that

Tim Winders: 00:23:43

I'm not sure if they grasp their identity.

Tim Winders: 00:23:47

And one of the things we see with conflicts is people aren't comfortable

Tim Winders: 00:23:52

with their identity, so it's difficult to accept others' identity.

Tim Winders: 00:23:57

And so instead of, I think you said salute was the word to use, I think

Tim Winders: 00:24:01

people are wanting and demanding that you not just accept who I am,

Tim Winders: 00:24:07

but I want you to celebrate me.

Tim Winders: 00:24:10

I

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:24:10

Oh yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:24:10

Even if it's completely a false narrative, if I even get a whiff, Tim, that you're

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:24:14

not on the same page with me and ready to celebrate this distortion, bye.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:24:21

Can't handle it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:24:21

Can't.

Tim Winders: 00:24:23

And it causes so much conflict.

Tim Winders: 00:24:25

I want, there's one thing that I want to address and I'll, I'm gonna ask

Tim Winders: 00:24:28

it somewhat generic and I'll let you be as specific as you desire to be.

Tim Winders: 00:24:35

There are the megachurches in our society today get a lot of flack and I think some

Tim Winders: 00:24:42

of it's well-deserved too, by the way.

Tim Winders: 00:24:45

But I know the one you attended, I'll let you share if you want to.

Tim Winders: 00:24:49

I know that at one point it was one of the fastest growing.

Tim Winders: 00:24:52

Biggest around and later they ran into some challenges

Tim Winders: 00:24:57

because of some leadership.

Tim Winders: 00:24:59

What are some of the pros and cons to that structure?

Tim Winders: 00:25:03

I'm a business structure guy.

Tim Winders: 00:25:05

I'm an engineer, and I am coming to where I really love the small group

Tim Winders: 00:25:12

non, all the time, full-time ministry.

Tim Winders: 00:25:15

And so I wanna be careful here.

Tim Winders: 00:25:18

I don't want to get into throwing a bunch of stuff around, but I would

Tim Winders: 00:25:20

like, just because your perspective to share whatever you're comfortable with

Tim Winders: 00:25:25

about just observations and things we're seeing with that big church, structure.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:33

it's interesting we're seeing that kind of

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:35

dismantle itself in recent years, largely from top down, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:40

Sort of the cult of personalities crumbling.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:42

That's not working as well as it maybe once did.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:45

Now of course where it's still working, they're like a hundred

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:48

percent, cuz there's a bit of a bubble, that, that folks live in.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:51

I think we, maybe we all do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:53

See, I have people assume because we talk about living out our faith in

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:25:56

everyday life, which is gonna mean in smaller communities primarily.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:00

Even if as we regather those or however we regather those,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:03

they assume we're anti that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:05

and of course we're not.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:06

I believe in the gathering of the saints.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:07

I believe in the sharing of all the giftings at the maturest level that God,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:11

will grace us with gathering up together.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:13

And all that stuff's a benefit and a blessing to us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:15

It's grace.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:17

However, the command is, go and make disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:21

The command is not get loads of people in a building to sing about me.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:26

Just it's not.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:27

And I, I know

Tim Winders: 00:26:28

and have smoke.

Tim Winders: 00:26:29

And have smoke machines.

Tim Winders: 00:26:30

You brought it up earlier.

Tim Winders: 00:26:31

It's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:31

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:31

or whatever, or, we don't do that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:33

We just have the barnwood wall now that all the mediums to small churches

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:36

all like mandatory got three to five years ago, I don't know what

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:40

happened all, but they all have it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:41

It's crazy, And and and we're doing the songs that come from one of

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:44

four organizations largely just saw a report on this crazy right.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:49

Which, people ask me all the time, do you know this song?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:51

I'm like, Nope.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:51

Cuz I don't listen to any of that, I think that when all of a sudden our

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:54

focus there again got off of make disciples who make disciples, you, the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:26:59

benefit gets lost of wait a minute, just getting 300 people or 500 people

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:04

or 20,000 people in a room together.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:07

that's not discipleship.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:10

It might be worship, it might not be, a preaching of the word.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:14

If it's the gospel.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:15

And it's not due to be, if it's not now you got, here's how

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:18

you have to go live like Jesus.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:19

So go muster that up.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:21

That's law.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:21

that's not the gospel.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:23

There's no should in the gospel or shouldn't.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:25

There's you get to right or you need not cuz Christ already took care of all that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:30

I think the negative of that is if that's the focus, how do you make disciples

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:35

when you're sitting, in rows and rows?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:37

So let me give you an analogy by God's grace.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:40

And it really is, my wife and I were both raised in broken homes by wolves

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:44

and the only thing we knew when we got married is we don't know nothing

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:46

about being married and raising kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:48

But our kids, we have three boy, girl told you about Caesar already.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:52

they're all adults now and having families and raising kids, and they

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:56

all still love God and they love people and they love their mom and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:27:59

dad, and we're all like best friends.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:01

It's nuts.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:02

Like the dream can be real.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:04

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:05

And, people ask us all the time, how did you and Tina raise such great kids?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:10

they really are.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:11

And they really, they're fun.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:12

if you came over and hung out tonight, you'd feel like part

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:14

of team K, part of the family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:16

They would treat you all like family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:17

That's how we roll.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:18

And you'd go, man, this is a fun place, bunch to hang on.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:21

So people ask all the time, what if Tina said, this is crazy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:24

All we did was this how we raised our kids once a week on the weekend, usually

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:29

Sunday morning, we lined up a bunch of chairs and rows in the living room.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:34

And Tina says, me and the kids, we sat there in those

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:36

rows and, largely in silence.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:39

We sang a couple camp songs, that they're not that great, we sing them.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:42

And then Caesar had this little stand thing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:44

He'd stand up in front of the living room and he would talk to us about

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:46

the Bible for about 30, 45 minutes.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:48

He liked to go long though.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:50

And and then we'd say, see you next week, kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:52

and and they're like, I'm doing so, oh, maybe the next week you come in Wednesday.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:56

No, that's okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:57

you guys have a great week man.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:58

We love y'all.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:28:59

And then, and we would do that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:01

And it wasn't even every Sunday, cuz people are busy, but it was

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:03

most Sundays and that's all we did.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:06

And they turned out amazing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:09

Now it's such a goofy analogy that it really hammers that nail, doesn't it?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:14

Because you could never raise kids that way, that are, effective adults

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:18

and love each other and love God and people and give their lives of service

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:21

and, and they're generous and all.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:23

You couldn't do that in an hour and a half a week sitting in rose and silence.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:26

And yet, somehow we think we're gonna form spiritually mature people

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:29

who are generous and love God, and love each other, and love people and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:32

live like a close family doing that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:36

The advantages of living in smaller community is the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:39

primary organizing structure.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:41

hey, this is where life and ministry and discipleship happens, and we get

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:44

to come together and blow it up, man, if you like, that sort of thing, go

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:47

for it, smoke it out, but the benefit of living the way that we see in

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:51

scripture, but the only way we see in scripture is you get to live as a family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:56

That word oikos, the church in Corinth, whatever, it was always

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:29:58

oikos, which means extended family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:01

And this is what we talk about on our Everyday Disciple podcast in all of our

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:05

coaching exclusively, is it, as you live this kingdom life, as you live in light

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:11

of the truth of who God is and what he says is true of us now because of Christ.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:15

And you let the rings of your relationship of your family life and the kingdom

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:19

move out to include more and more others and treat them as family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:22

It's amazing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:23

What ha That's your OI cost.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:24

That's amazing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:25

What happens?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:26

So for us, that's neighbors.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:27

That's our kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:28

That's a bunch of our kids' friends.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:30

It's our friends who are friends with our kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:32

It's people that are employees.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:35

It's someone we met at, the cafe that we go to a million times.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:38

It's the guy who tends bar at the pub, our local, that's our OI costs

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:42

and we open up our home and our life completely to those people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:46

We don't hide our faith.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:47

They're super interested in wondering about it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:49

those who show up and hang out, people with peace.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:53

There's a real advantage to raising a family that way.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:55

And just like God doesn't give us litters, usually we don't have here's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:30:58

a dozen kids, or here's 20,000 kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:01

They try to raise you, get 'em one at a time.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:03

You know what I mean?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:03

they come in or two or three at a time max, kinda usually you can't

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:07

disciple in every area of life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:11

You can't disciple people mass sitting in rose and silence

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:14

just giving them information.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:15

Or Jesus would've done it that way.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:18

I'm convinced of it.

Tim Winders: 00:31:19

I think it's a challenge.

Tim Winders: 00:31:20

I do think that maybe struggle, we know we, people can quote the

Tim Winders: 00:31:26

scriptures where to make disciples and.

Tim Winders: 00:31:28

and that is one of our commandments, I think.

Tim Winders: 00:31:31

I'm really wondering if some of us, I'll go and throw me in here and so I'll,

Tim Winders: 00:31:37

I'm gonna let you define this for us.

Tim Winders: 00:31:38

Some of us don't understand what the word disciple means.

Tim Winders: 00:31:42

Obviously it's got a

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:31:43

or discipleship.

Tim Winders: 00:31:44

discipleship discipline, things like that.

Tim Winders: 00:31:47

So maybe before we go any further, Caesar, why don't we, let's talk a bit

Tim Winders: 00:31:53

about what that really means because it is thrown around quite a bit.

Tim Winders: 00:31:59

I went to bible school for a few years, had a similar experience where there was

Tim Winders: 00:32:03

someone talking at me most of the time and I was taking notes and studying and,

Tim Winders: 00:32:08

doing the things you should be doing.

Tim Winders: 00:32:10

But they would say that your role here is to be discipled and I

Tim Winders: 00:32:17

actually think that maybe we don't.

Tim Winders: 00:32:20

Really grasp what disciple means.

Tim Winders: 00:32:24

So talk to us, define it, give all that you can so that we can try to understand

Tim Winders: 00:32:29

what discipleship and disciple means.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:34

We've had to try to break this down.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:36

Tim, it's a great question.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:37

We've had to try to break it down so that it wasn't.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:40

There again, where we're chasing two different things, but using the same word.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:44

and for us, the what we say, here's our definition of discipleship, and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:48

then we'll talk about what's, and then what's a disciple Discipleship.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:51

We believe ultimately is this process of moving from unbelief

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:32:56

to belief in light of the gospel in absolutely every area of life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:02

Okay?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:03

Moving from lies to truth, unbelief to belief in light of the gospel.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:08

Who is God?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:09

What's he like?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:11

What's he done in and through His son Jesus?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:14

What's he now say is true of us?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:16

Our identity, our authority, our privilege.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:18

Because of that, out of that flows, okay then how do we get to live?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:22

Not should or supposed to, cuz it's already been done

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:25

at the cross, it's finished.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:26

But how do we get to live in light of that?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:28

And so if discipleship is the process of moving from unbelief to belief,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:32

helping each other do that in every area of life, then guess what we're gonna

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:36

have to do every area of life together.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:40

It's not a process of disseminating information.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:45

It, It's not just deep Bible literacy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:49

We say it's not Bible literacy that we're after, or that Jesus

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:52

was after it's gospel fluency.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:54

I don't wanna freak anybody out, any of your listeners.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:57

Maybe they're gonna tune out right after I say this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:33:59

Jesus never owned a Bible.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:03

Jesus never discipled Christians.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:06

There weren't any, He didn't.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:08

He had the 12 knuckleheads that he didn't even choose.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:10

Dad chose it says there, at the ascension that the 11 who were still alive, it

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:15

said some still did not believe what?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:19

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:19

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:20

That's how it goes.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:21

That's how

Tim Winders: 00:34:21

A and we think that only one of them was a knucklehead,

Tim Winders: 00:34:26

but they all had issues.

Tim Winders: 00:34:27

Right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:28

how many of 'em do we hear about after.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:32

Just a few.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:32

And we just assume they're all out crushing it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:34

Planting huge worship services.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:36

They got the best sound systems, by the way.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:38

All, All that stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:39

Nope, I don't think so.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:40

we know some of them went back to like fishing or farming or I'll

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:43

go back and see if I can get my government job, collecting tax.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:45

We, you know, we don't, right.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:47

Well, not Matthew, but you know, so we have such this distorted

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:53

somewhere along the line disciples there again, when we lost the gospel

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:34:56

narrative of it's not about getting saved and your afterlife upgrade.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:01

It's about make disciples who make disciples, which is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:04

How we fill the world with God's glory, by the way, as we become more and more

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:08

like Christ, the mystery revealed, Paul says, God's gonna do this through humans.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:12

What?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:13

Yeah, he's gonna sanctify them, put his own spirit in them, and as

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:16

they make more disciples of Jesus, who is the glory of God, the whole

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:19

world will be filled with his glory.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:22

What?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:22

That's what's really going on When we lost that narrative for we gotta get people

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:26

saved and then Christianity's about sin management and behavioral modification.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:32

Then quote, discipleship came about, teach them the Bible and get 'em to do it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:36

And yeah, but D, didn't Jesus say, make disciples, immersing them in

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:41

their identity, in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:43

the Holy Spirit, and and teach them to obey all that I've commanded.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:46

Didn't he say that?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:47

Didn't he say that?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:48

But how many things did Jesus command and what if you summarized it?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:52

What He summarized it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:53

He goes, all right, love God with your whole heart.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:55

Love everybody else as much as you love yourself.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:35:59

There's the summary, so and we can get to the list, but really if you do

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:03

the hermeneutical work on that, teach them to obey all that I've commanded.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:08

Really what he's saying is show them how to live in the ways of what is

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:12

actually already true of God and now true of them because of me.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:16

That's really what it's saying.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:18

Teach them to obey all that I've commanded.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:20

That's a real tweak on that hermeneutic.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:22

It really is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:24

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:25

It's kind of accurate, but what that's saying is show 'em how to walk in my ways.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:30

Now you add this, get ready for this man.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:32

You add that to what Jesus said in John eight.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:34

If you'll be my disciples, if you'll walk in my ways, then you'll come to know the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:42

truth and that truth will set you free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:45

Now, isn't that crazy?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:45

Notice the order there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:47

If you'll be my disciples, if you'll walk in my ways, and this is what

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:50

Jesus commands us to go do, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:53

Then you'll come to know the truth and that truth will set you free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:36:57

But what have we done and what was I guilty of for so much of life?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:00

Even as a pastor, we flip that narrative 180 and we go, if you'll

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:04

believe what we say is true, you'll say the magic prayer that can't find

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:10

the scripture, you'll get set free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:12

You won't feel free, but you'll get set free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:14

You know it's in your afterlife.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:16

That's when you catch that check and then we'll disciple you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:21

Jesus says, if you'll be my disciple, then you'll come to know the truth

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:24

and that truth will set you free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:26

And we make that like a meta term.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:28

so that's when, that's how you get your ticket to heaven punched.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:31

But if you dare, again, just back up a few verses, couple chapters.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:35

That's not what he's saying.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:36

He's saying, if you'll walk in my ways, in any way, like when it comes

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:40

to like generosity in who's really your provision and who do you trust

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:45

for your needs and you know your kids and all that, if you'll walk in my

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:49

ways, you'll come to know the truth.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:52

About God, and that he owns it all and he loves you and he cares for you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:56

And this family is gonna, and that truth will set you free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:37:59

And so now you'll get to live free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:00

And even if you lose your job or you look at your bank account and go,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:02

that's rough with not much in there, but we need to help these people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:06

God will take care of us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:07

you'll be set free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:08

That's what's going on here.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:11

Discipleship is that process of helping each other move from unbelief

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:15

to belief in every area of life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:16

And if you take Jesus as word in John eight, and also what did he model?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:20

The same thing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:22

He didn't say, you gotta be a Christian first, and now I can disciple you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:24

He's come and follow me, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:25

Let's walk in my ways.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:27

if you take him at face value, then that means people are actually discipled to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:32

faith, to truth that sets them free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:36

And then on to maturity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:38

So there's not this flip flopped d made up narrative of you gotta

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:43

adhere to a bunch of truths.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:44

First say a prayer, and then that sets you free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:49

And then we'll disciple you in your sin management behavior modification program.

Tim Winders: 00:38:53

We're gonna beat it in.

Tim Winders: 00:38:54

We're gonna beat it into you.

Tim Winders: 00:38:55

We

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:55

can't find it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:56

we'll, and now be, we'll be very nice about it though.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:38:59

We'll be very nice.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:00

But the assumption will be parallel, just like your parents in school are,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:05

is that God loves you more when you do this you a little less when you don't.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:09

And if you really want him to love you, tithe and sign up for a bunch of programs.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:13

Okay?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:13

Cause we need people to stack chairs and hand out these flyers.

Tim Winders: 00:39:15

Volunteers show up, work the nursery, you do the

Tim Winders: 00:39:18

parking lot, things like that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:19

super happy now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:39:20

God's super happy with you.

Tim Winders: 00:39:21

I heard really what I heard as you were walking through that was

Tim Winders: 00:39:25

not only are we moving from unbelief to belief, which you talked about the

Tim Winders: 00:39:29

process, and I'm an industrial engineer.

Tim Winders: 00:39:31

I love talking about process.

Tim Winders: 00:39:32

I, I believe that this journey we're on is just that it is a journey where

Tim Winders: 00:39:37

you're not going to get to a destination.

Tim Winders: 00:39:39

It isn't a check the box destination.

Tim Winders: 00:39:42

So we're moving from unbelief to belief, which is really moving into the

Tim Winders: 00:39:45

truth of what our identity really is.

Tim Winders: 00:39:48

so Cesar, one of the things we really, we try to dig into this term of redefining

Tim Winders: 00:39:55

success because everything in our culture tries to define success for us.

Tim Winders: 00:40:00

And I believe even.

Tim Winders: 00:40:01

those of us that are in church world, we followers of Christ, which most

Tim Winders: 00:40:04

of our listeners are, there may be some that aren't, which we welcome

Tim Winders: 00:40:07

them and love that they're here.

Tim Winders: 00:40:09

But most people, when you start talking about some things, about everyday living,

Tim Winders: 00:40:14

about walking this out, about going through the process, I think that there's

Tim Winders: 00:40:19

some people that may struggle with, how do I go from, yeah, I know that I need

Tim Winders: 00:40:25

to do more than what I'm doing Sunday.

Tim Winders: 00:40:28

Or some people may have decided they don't even like going on Sunday,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:40:32

More and more, right?

Tim Winders: 00:40:33

but they still feel some, yeah, we see a lot of numbers like that.

Tim Winders: 00:40:36

If we look at the act, if we read Believe Barna and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:40:38

Oh, it's way past the midpoint.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:40:40

unfortunately,

Tim Winders: 00:40:41

of people that aren't going to church, but yet they have

Tim Winders: 00:40:42

some spiritual aspect and somehow that's gonna have to be addressed.

Tim Winders: 00:40:46

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:40:47

So I would love for us in the time we've got here the last few minutes and all,

Tim Winders: 00:40:52

as we head towards trying to do a landing and I know you've got resources, we're

Tim Winders: 00:40:56

gonna ask for some of those at the end.

Tim Winders: 00:40:58

I'm gonna let you tell people where to find all the resources.

Tim Winders: 00:41:00

Cuz I

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:00

so much stuff, folks.

Tim Winders: 00:41:02

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:41:02

but I'd love for you with some time we've got here to speak to the person

Tim Winders: 00:41:08

that's just going, how can I just break away from my rut or where I'm

Tim Winders: 00:41:15

at or just get a little bit deeper?

Tim Winders: 00:41:19

What are some things you can tell people that are wanting to go into

Tim Winders: 00:41:23

that role of an everyday disciple or move down that process closer to

Tim Winders: 00:41:28

belief from where they are in unbelief.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:32

I think that the slippery slope of this is, and you just

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:35

queued it up with the slippery slope.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:37

Sorry to say Tim, but is what must I do?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:41

And that unfortunately is where we all start because of that doto be distortion.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:48

It really is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:49

The other way.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:50

we have to learn to believe who we be, who we are, our identity and out

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:55

of our true identity, which we've already talked a little bit about,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:41:58

is the most natural, fulfilling way to live out of that identity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:03

We live into the rhythms of everyday life and we teach deeply on, there's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:06

six rhythms of life that God gave the whole world and everybody from

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:09

the Garden of Eden up until you and I to people in Ukraine, or we're

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:13

all living in the same six rhythms.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:14

but it's not the doing, it's the how are who are we being, And that's where

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:20

that becoming, deeper in our belief.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:23

About who God has created us to be.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:26

See we, we talk about it as Christians quite often, that your

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:28

identity now is in Christ if you trust him and you're a Christian.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:33

it's true, but our identity is also in the Father and in the Spirit.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:37

And it's right back to where it says, right Matthew 28, go and make disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:41

How therefore baptizing them that we're baptized means

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:44

to immerse, to soak them in.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:46

They're in the name of the Father.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:49

In the name of the Son.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:51

In the name of the Spirit.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:53

Wow.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:53

All a huge identity statement.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:55

So what's discipleship about then?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:42:58

we've already talked about it's this idea of moving from unbelief to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:01

belief, the truth in every area of life, connected to what our identity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:06

It really is true.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:06

Why?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:06

Because our identity flows from who God is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:09

He's filling the role with His glory.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:11

That's who he is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:12

How's he doing it through us?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:13

What's the enemy?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:14

Want to tear down God's glory, God's image.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:17

That's why all the attack on identity and out of all this is where we get

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:22

gender dysphoria and homosexuality and all the things that we're experiencing

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:27

right now, all flow from a not believing the truth of our identity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:32

We all were believers and not yet believers, we're all created in

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:36

the identity of a Trinitarian God.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:40

And so when people say, what's the first stuff we gotta do?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:42

Okay, first off, do you believe God's your father?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:45

And cuz if you bear his name, if you're bear Kalinowski name

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:48

in our family, guess what?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:49

You know you're family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:50

You know it's part of that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:51

But we treat everybody like family, cuz that's how we see God doing it and we

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:54

believe that's what he calls us to do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:56

But.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:58

If that's true.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:43:58

If dad's we have the same dad, then Tim, you and I are really family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:02

What's that mean?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:03

If we were a healthy family, I know a lot of people don't have healthy

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:06

families, but we always say, what do you think you'd do differently if God

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:10

was your daddy, Jesus was your brother.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:12

That's what he calls us in Hebrews.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:14

And you had the power that raised Christ from the dead,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:16

the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:17

So no lack of power, motivation, strength or any of that for this life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:21

What do you think life would look like if you believed we were really family?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:24

And so are your neighbors by the way, I think we'd hang out and eat a lot

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:27

and we'd have fun together and we would share the tough stuff, but not with fear,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:31

because the do to B thing would be done cause we're living out of our identity.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:35

And that doesn't change based on what you do.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:37

Because of what Christ has already done, And so I think we would live

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:40

more like a family and share our stuff and care for one another and work

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:44

together and play and fight and forgive.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:46

And you're like, oh, you mean like in the book of Acts?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:48

yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:49

and then, okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:49

But we're also made in the image of the son who is a servant.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:54

He came and he says, as I was sent, so I send you, he came as a servant,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:44:57

not to be served, he said, but as one who serves, then if you live as

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:01

a servant now, you're not wondering, what am I getting outta the deal?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:04

You look at everything and go, how might I serve here?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:06

Why?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:06

Because it'll show people what God's his glory.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:08

So I, this, we do whole teachings on this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:11

Then we could do three episodes on identity if you'd like, but it all starts

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:15

with believing, really getting soaked in, saturated, baptized in the truth of

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:21

who God is and who he's created us to be.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:24

And now in Christ that's been restored and we're What's faith?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:27

What's salvation?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:45:28

it's believing that's true and living out of it.

Tim Winders: 00:45:32

So one thing Caesar, I'm curious with all that you're

Tim Winders: 00:45:34

doing and with the, we'll call it the mission work that you're doing in

Tim Winders: 00:45:38

the local areas, which is phenomenal.

Tim Winders: 00:45:42

I'm guessing that you are running across quite a few people that have

Tim Winders: 00:45:47

very little, if any background in, say, traditional, formal church, may not

Tim Winders: 00:45:53

even have familiarity with the Bible.

Tim Winders: 00:45:55

I grew up in the South, the Bible Belt, and people throw scriptures around

Tim Winders: 00:46:00

because they grew up with scripture.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:02

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:46:03

I think now we're running across, and we're getting to this, I think

Tim Winders: 00:46:06

Europe's already gotten to this point where there's like a post, post-Christian

Tim Winders: 00:46:10

where people, you talk about the Bible, they go, what are you talking about?

Tim Winders: 00:46:13

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Tim Winders: 00:46:16

How g, give some examples of how you are just living it out every day.

Tim Winders: 00:46:25

But here's the reason why I think many people struggle with

Tim Winders: 00:46:28

that and that is an action.

Tim Winders: 00:46:31

I know I asked about doing earlier.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:33

no, we, out of our identity, we do all kinds of stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:35

That's the doing's not the problem.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:36

It's why, what's our motivation for doing it,

Tim Winders: 00:46:39

Sure.

Tim Winders: 00:46:40

And so give some examples that, that you've got of just what happens

Tim Winders: 00:46:46

when this everyday discipleship begins to take root and occur

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:54

it starts out usually at our table.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:57

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:46:57

and for

Tim Winders: 00:46:58

food.

Tim Winders: 00:46:58

So food's involved.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:00

foods involved, meals are involved.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:02

Time to be.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:04

is key.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:05

it's not a weekly meeting sitting in rows in silence.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:07

It's not a group that comes together just to study a book of the Bible and see

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:12

what parts we agree or d disagree with.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:13

Because like most of my friends are not believers, not yet believers.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:17

most of my friends are, they have some background in it, some Catholicism

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:21

a little bit when they were a child.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:22

But it never really, that afterlife upgrade gospel never

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:26

really hit that hard for them.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:27

And the sin management, behavioral modification wasn't good news.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:30

So they're working on it in their own.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:32

They're, ideas and strength.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:33

And so for us, usually it starts with a meal.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:35

We do lots of parties, we do lots of open tables.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:39

that's a big deal.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:40

and happy hours.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:42

we, we do happy hour here and people love it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:44

We did happy hours in the driveway during covid and we didn't mean

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:49

to collect a bunch of people.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:50

We said, Hey, how about cuz we, we'd already known for doing happy hours.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:54

How about we're gonna be out in our driveway?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:47:56

Friday at six and we're gonna set up a little table and have a little happy hour.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:00

Why don't anybody who wants to do the same thing in a neighborhood and we'll

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:03

wave at each other and then maybe in an hour we'll walk around and talk and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:07

wave at each other from the sidewalks.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:08

they didn't read the memo and we just had about 20 something,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:12

30 people show up initially, six plus feet apart by the end of it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:16

Nah, not so much.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:18

They were dying for community.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:20

We put out flyers going, Hey, I don't like, we haven't stockpiled

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:24

a ton of stuff, but we, whatever we got, we're willing to share.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:27

And if you can't get out, let us know.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:29

We'll, we can get out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:29

We're, healthy by God's grace and anything we can do for you, here's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:33

our name, here's our phone number, and we just put that all over the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:35

neighborhood, everywhere and hand it out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:38

people did, and people still talk about that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:40

You guys were the best and you had still had your parties and you had us

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:43

over and it was crazy and we trust you.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:46

and so it's, that's how it starts for us.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:49

I think that the hugest distinction is that we treat people like

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:53

family, not like guests.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:54

That's a huge one.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:48:57

We don't see people as a guest, Hey, come on in.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:00

Can I bring anything?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:00

no, just bring your smile on face.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:02

Can I help with anything?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:03

No, I got it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:03

Just what can I get you to drink?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:05

Just sit down.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:05

It's okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:05

It's all right.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:06

Nope.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:07

People come to our house and it's sure, you can bring that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:09

And when they get there, we're like, could you run this out and throw it in the can?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:11

I didn't get the garbage out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:12

It's totally overflown.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:13

I'm so sorry.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:14

drinks are over here.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:15

The glasses are up there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:16

If you don't find something, just root around.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:18

It's probably in the fridge, just like you would with family right away.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:21

People respond very different to that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:24

you treat 'em like a guest, they act like a guest.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:27

You treat 'em like family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:27

They start to act more like family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:29

What that does is that starts to break down and there's a real

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:32

intentionality to how we speak with people and the questions we ask.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:35

I wanna get to know their stories.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:37

I wanna know where they're living in unbelief and lies so I can

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:40

help 'em move from that to truth.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:42

And that might be through conversation, or initially it might be like I.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:46

I don't believe in family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:47

It's broken.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:48

Ours is jacked.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:49

I'm on my third marriage.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:50

My kids have moved out.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:51

They hate me.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:52

But I look at your family and I go, it looks like there's an option,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:55

at least for it to be different.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:57

And eventually they want to know why.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:49:58

I can't really explain that without explaining our faith

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:01

and who we believe Jesus is.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:03

so it's really simple things like that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:05

Now we teach and train and coach on all this stuff, but

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:08

it starts out always the same.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:10

Hey, let's start having a family dinner night as a family.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:14

Then let's start opening up the rings of that relationship a little naturally.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:17

Something we're already doing.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:19

It's already fun.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:20

It's a blast.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:21

It's full of joy.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:22

Let's just open up the rings to people who are leaning into relationship.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:25

Let them experience a little of bit.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:27

People are dying.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:28

Trust me, they're dying for a place at the table.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:30

We've never had a shortage of people who wanna have dinner and hang out with us,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:50:35

real simply, real practically like that.

Tim Winders: 00:50:37

I do think that there's some people when we bring up family, my, my

Tim Winders: 00:50:42

wife is one that because of relationship with father and mother and things like

Tim Winders: 00:50:47

that, they may struggle with that.

Tim Winders: 00:50:49

And so I think it's really healthy to show a model of the way a healthy

Tim Winders: 00:50:55

family functions and operates.

Tim Winders: 00:50:58

I'm curious, one of the things that I've done as I've studied the gospels is I've

Tim Winders: 00:51:03

looked at those four gospels and I've, in my mind, I'm trying to think how much

Tim Winders: 00:51:08

time did Jesus actually spend with the 12

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:51:16

I've done the math.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:51:17

Have you?

Tim Winders: 00:51:18

I've tried to, so I'm gonna ask it.

Tim Winders: 00:51:20

let me mention one other thing, and I'm gonna let you respond to that because

Tim Winders: 00:51:24

I, I keep hearing, and maybe this is the question and you could expand on this.

Tim Winders: 00:51:30

I keep hearing you say there's patience, there's time.

Tim Winders: 00:51:35

It's not like it's a real quick text and that's your relationship with someone.

Tim Winders: 00:51:39

We spend 35 minutes sitting beside you and we greet at the beginning of the

Tim Winders: 00:51:43

service and then we're out and we're done.

Tim Winders: 00:51:45

Don't even go to lunch together.

Tim Winders: 00:51:46

There, there is time with discipleship and interacting with people, which also

Tim Winders: 00:51:53

means I don't think that you can really do it well with more than a certain number.

Tim Winders: 00:52:00

Maybe the number's 12.

Tim Winders: 00:52:01

I don't know.

Tim Winders: 00:52:02

but tell me.

Tim Winders: 00:52:03

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:52:03

what is the math?

Tim Winders: 00:52:04

he had three years, but they hung out together

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:07

So it's a guess, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:09

I did the math and I'll just tell you what my math was.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:11

it was about three and a half years.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:14

Okay.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:14

By the time Jesus went back to dad, hung out with dad and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:18

they were pretty much there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:19

They were together if they were awake.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:20

So let's just give it 18 hours.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:22

It's about 30,000 hours.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:24

Jesus hung out with his disciples.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:26

Now, I did the other side of the math, and I won't remember the

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:30

exact number, but pretty close.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:31

I think if, let's just say the people in our church, they

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:35

all come every week, okay?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:38

Two hours.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:38

and they never miss, okay?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:40

And they come midweek hour and a half.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:43

And because we're a discipline church, we were rock stars.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:47

one Saturday, a month for two hours, we equip like crazy and everybody makes it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:53

I added that up and I said, to get to 30,000 hours, how long would it take?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:52:56

And it was something like 120 something years, I think to equal the same parody.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:01

Now, let me go back to something I said earlier.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:04

Jesus did the 30,000 hours with people complete open life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:08

You've heard it said, but I say this is what the father's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:10

You wanna know what he's like.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:11

He's like a couple hundred gallons of wine, three days into a party.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:14

That's dad's heart, just so you know, or first miracle.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:17

stuff like that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:18

but the 11 were still there with him watching at his ascension, and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:21

some still weren't sure about it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:22

They weren't quite, not believing hand in the holes.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:25

I don't know, resurrected, miracles.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:28

still not sure if that's Jesus track record and his disciples

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:33

changed the world, and you and I are still talking about it today.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:36

Then I think we can give ourselves a break here and say,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:39

discipleship is not microwave.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:40

It's not super duper fast.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:42

You're gonna have to invest deeply.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:44

we just say discipleship is very, if you want to get a quick picture of it, it's

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:47

very much like reparenting the culture.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:51

How long does it take to raise kids?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:55

20, 30 years.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:56

Our kids are in their thirties now.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:53:58

We're very much still actively parenting.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:00

It looks very different.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:02

It looks very different.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:04

It's very active though.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:05

it's very active and by, and they want that, Like it's right.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:09

But by the time they moved out twenties or something, that's a 20 year investment.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:14

Man, that's still way short of 30,000 hours because I wasn't

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:18

with my kids 18 hours a day.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:54:19

I was at work and they're at school and sports and yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:54:24

so the thing I love about that is, is the thing that we miss in

Tim Winders: 00:54:28

our culture, which is patience and time.

Tim Winders: 00:54:32

And it is one of the reasons why I love you brought up earlier that

Tim Winders: 00:54:36

you coach, and I'm about to ask you here for some of the resources

Tim Winders: 00:54:38

and things that you have available.

Tim Winders: 00:54:42

I'm a coach, I'm an executive coach, and I've said this before,

Tim Winders: 00:54:46

sounds a little bit self-serving.

Tim Winders: 00:54:47

I think some of the closest things to discipleship in our modern day culture

Tim Winders: 00:54:54

is the relationship that coaches have.

Tim Winders: 00:54:56

Because I spend a lot of time with people I work with.

Tim Winders: 00:55:00

Coach, you spend a lot of time, maybe let's don't look at us.

Tim Winders: 00:55:04

Let's look at maybe a high school athletic coach, spending a lot of time.

Tim Winders: 00:55:09

So I, I think the thing we're missing.

Tim Winders: 00:55:13

Is we're being robbed of patience and time, and that is one of the

Tim Winders: 00:55:16

factors that we've got to have.

Tim Winders: 00:55:18

We've got to have that heart to spend time and be patient with

Tim Winders: 00:55:24

it and allow this process to, for people to go from unbelief to belief.

Tim Winders: 00:55:30

Tell us now, and I'll let you share whichever one that you think is

Tim Winders: 00:55:34

appropriate or a lot of 'em, or whatever.

Tim Winders: 00:55:36

I know you've got podcasts, and I've got a link here that's

Tim Winders: 00:55:39

got all kind of resources.

Tim Winders: 00:55:41

Tell us about some of the resources that you have and maybe some of the

Tim Winders: 00:55:45

first ones that people need to go check out when they're listening in

Tim Winders: 00:55:49

on a conversation like we've just had.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:55:50

Yeah.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:55:51

thanks for letting me share this stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:55:53

We're passionate about this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:55:54

This is what my wife and I do all day.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:55:56

This is our life, with people, and then also coaching and equipping others to

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:00

experience greater spiritual freedom.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:04

cuz they're not having to try to like please God cuz he is

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:06

already pleased in Christ.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:07

And then relational peace to live open with people, with their kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:10

With each other.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:11

With neighbors and live free.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:12

I would say the first thing is please come and check out the podcast.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:15

we've done it six and a half years, like you, hundreds of episodes.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:18

And, every imaginable topic addressed from this perspective.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:22

What would it look like if the gospel spoke into that part of our life?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:26

And we could learn to get fluent about that, but not like weirdos.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:30

You know what I mean?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:30

not chapter and verse in people, but like how does the gospel speak to marriage or

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:36

our parenting or, what's going on with, identity out there in the world right now?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:40

Or hundreds and hundreds of things.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:42

And it's called the Everyday Disciple Podcast, you know, for a reason, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:46

And, I would love folks to just come and check that out and you skip around.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:50

You don't have to listen to the latest episode if you don't want.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:51

There's hundreds.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:52

Dig around.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:53

Let the titles, and curiosity drive you in that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:55

But I, and you can find that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:56:57

And a ton of resources like training, equipping hundreds of videos.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:01

Just go to everyday disciple.com.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:04

So everyday disciple.com, you'll find the podcast there.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:08

Now it's also everywhere.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:09

Podcasts are just like yours, it's in Spotify, it's Apple,

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:12

it's everywhere, right?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:13

But if you wanna like at least initially find it, see what it looks like and

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:16

get and download a bunch of free stuff.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:19

like we, we have like how to have an awesome family dinner, how to have

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:22

killer date night with your wife.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:24

How to date your kids.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:25

what are these six rhythms of life that we already live in?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:28

What if we started to live out of our identity into those?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:30

Cuz we're already doing it and so is everybody we know.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:33

Sounds like no additional time needed.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:35

Just some intention.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:36

Great tons of teaching on that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:38

there, there's all kinds of resources and I've got books, of course.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:42

I think you wanna check out some books.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:57:43

There'll be links for that stuff as well.

Tim Winders: 00:57:45

We'll include links down there and I do agree that the conversation

Tim Winders: 00:57:51

we've had here, someone listening in, really needs to go to the everyday design.

Tim Winders: 00:57:57

Apple podcast.

Tim Winders: 00:57:58

It should be easy within your player.

Tim Winders: 00:57:59

You might be watching this on YouTube and can check things out,

Tim Winders: 00:58:02

but just I would check it out cuz I definitely think there's a good mesh

Tim Winders: 00:58:06

between what we're talking about here and what you're doing there.

Tim Winders: 00:58:10

Cesar, we are seek, go create those three words.

Tim Winders: 00:58:14

I'm gonna let you choose one of those over the other two just for kicks and see

Tim Winders: 00:58:18

what resonates more with you right now.

Tim Winders: 00:58:20

Which word do you choose and why?

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:22

I've thought about this a little bit.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:23

I saw the name of your show and I knew you were gonna ask this question.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:26

I listen, this is part of being a Caesar.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:29

I can't follow the rules.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:31

It's two, it's go and it's create.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:32

I, I just, I'm creative.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:34

I've been a creator my whole life.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:36

I was a musician and a record producer, songwriter, forever and ever.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:40

and I write and make videos and all.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:42

But I guess if I had only could pick one, I would be the go.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:45

I really would be the go and make, go and be.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:48

it's not, our faith is not a common see.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:51

that was the old covenant.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:52

Come and see, come to the temple.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:54

Do all your business, get back to work.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:55

it.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:58:56

We've been given now a go and make go and be, go be disciples who make

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:00

disciples and help people, find this spiritual freedom that Jesus died

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:04

to give us, not an afterlife upgrade gospel, and then try to sin less.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:09

Come on man.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:09

Sin less and tithe once in a while.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:11

So yeah, I think it would be go like, get out there, give your life away.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:15

Part of going is just opening up your life, it really is open up time.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:19

Like you were saying, we don't give time to this.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:22

People don't give time to parenting either.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:23

And that's part of why, we're seeing what we're seeing in family life

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:26

and identity issues and all that.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:28

So I think I'd go with go for that reason.

Tim Winders: 00:59:31

That does not surprise me with your personality and all.

Tim Winders: 00:59:35

I really love that.

Tim Winders: 00:59:36

Caesar, thank you for joining us here.

Tim Winders: 00:59:39

It's been such a great conversation.

Tim Winders: 00:59:40

I appreciate our buddy Eric Nevins, for introducing us and connecting us.

Tim Winders: 00:59:44

It really.

Caesar Kalinowski: 00:59:44

Thanks Eric.

Tim Winders: 00:59:45

It really is a beautiful thing here.

Tim Winders: 00:59:47

If you've been listening in, I'm gonna ask a big favor, and that is

Tim Winders: 00:59:51

going back to what we said earlier.

Tim Winders: 00:59:53

Share this episode with someone who you believe might need to hear that

Tim Winders: 00:59:59

they need to move for this process from unbelief to belief or move

Tim Winders: 01:00:02

towards being an everyday disciple.

Tim Winders: 01:00:05

And I know you know someone, so take a screenshot or

Tim Winders: 01:00:08

share this episode with them.

Tim Winders: 01:00:10

Introduce them to the Everyday Disciple podcast.

Tim Winders: 01:00:12

Just share this.

Tim Winders: 01:00:13

That is the number one way that people get exposed to podcasts like this is when

Tim Winders: 01:00:18

someone personally shares this with them.

Tim Winders: 01:00:21

Thanks for joining us.

Tim Winders: 01:00:23

We have new episodes every Monday.

Tim Winders: 01:00:26

Until next time, continue being all that you were created to be.