Rich by Choice: Aligning Money, Values, and Leadership with Dr. Nicholas Michels

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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And we have a choice.

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And it's aligning your money

with what's most important.

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You understand who's important,

what's important, and then using your

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money to to, to align with that.

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That's where true happiness comes in.

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Tim Winders: What if financial

freedom isn't about chasing

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more but choosing better?

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In today's episode of Seek Go

Create the Leadership journey.

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I sit down with Dr.

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Nicholas e Michaels, author of Rich

by Choice, elite wealth strategist,

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and former professional basketball

player from growing up in a trailer

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park to turning down an $8 million

deal to preserve his values.

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Nick's story is one of grit, faith,

and purpose-driven leadership.

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We'll explore how he helps families

build wealth with peace, not pressure,

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and why financial clarity is one of

the most powerful forms of leadership.

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Let's dive in.

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Dr.

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Nicholas e.

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Michaels welcome to Seek Go Create.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Hey, thank you.

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I'm glad to be here.

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I'm glad to discuss critical elements of

success not just with money but in life.

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So thank you.

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Tim Winders: Yeah, we're gonna have fun.

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for those that are watching, for those

listening in, you can't see this,

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but he's got two monitors behind him,

his book and shelves, and you got

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financial charts going, man, you've,

you've got things going on there.

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Man, that looks good.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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I could

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Tim Winders: behind.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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I, every, all this is

designed by somebody else.

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I know.

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my goodness.

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My office too.

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My wife and our team, they run the show.

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Tim Winders: I, I'm the same way.

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I'm in my studio in the corporate

house I stay in when I come to Atlanta

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and I'm more used to being in my rv.

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That's where 300 or so, out of our

330 something episodes were recorded.

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I'm either in the passenger seat or there,

so little bit out of outta sorts here,

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but I believe we're gonna make it work.

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It's gonna be a fun conversation.

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So let's dive in.

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First question, would you rather

answer what do you do or who are you?

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Pick it and start answering.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Absolutely.

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You know, I would, I would.

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Dive into who am I?

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you know, and really understand who am I?

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You, you understand my past.

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I mean, I wanna take you

back to, to my childhood.

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That's where it all started.

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And I mean, Tim, have you ever

had one of those moments that

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completely changed your life?

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you know, I was 10 years old.

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summer of 1996.

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I was a middle of four

wild and active boys.

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I mean, it was fun.

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My dad was an entrepreneur,

owned several businesses.

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My mom stay-at-home, mom.

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I mean, we were blessed.

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We were lucky, to be honest with you.

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I didn't even know what money was.

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I just knew, hey, things were good.

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we had a good life.

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But then it happened, and I

remember it like it was yesterday.

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I mean, I was in my room, I had my

room filled with sports posters,

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baseball cards, and ES, ESPN on the tv.

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And my mom walked in and, you know,

she looks worried and she puts her

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arm around me and she says, your

dad and I are getting divorced.

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And you know, Tim, those

words shattered my childhood.

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because it seemed like overnight my

mom went from a stay at home mom of

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four boys to a single mom of four boys

working three jobs just to survive.

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And things weren't great for my dad.

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He struggled.

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I mean, as you can imagine,

our entire lives changed.

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security vanished, disappeared.

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Any type of certainty, collapsed.

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It was at a very early age that

I quickly realized how much money

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greatly influences your life.

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And you have a choice

either for good for bad.

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I mean, that we had a big

house to a small house.

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I mean that, that good life I was telling

you about, like, I just realized the good

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life to my mom saying things like, Hey,

go get all loose change of money around

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the house 'cause we're gonna need it.

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And, this is why I love being

here today, because it wasn't

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the stuff that hurt the most.

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it really wasn't, it

wasn't the important thing.

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what hurt the most.

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Was watching the physical and

emotional pain and toll that it

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took on my mom and my brothers.

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And, you know, to understand who I

am, you understand why I do what I do

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because like, you know, I care about you.

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I don't want you or any member of your

family to have to go through that.

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'cause we lived it.

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And, you know, it lit a fire in me.

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I wanted to read everything,

to understand everything.

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That way I could build, I

could grow and I could protect.

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And so, um, w you know,

understand why do I do and who I

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am is, yes, I'm a man of faith.

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I'm a father, I'm a husband,

and I really enjoy helping

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people become rich with money.

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But I get more excited

about, other riches in life.

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Whether it be faith and relationships,

creating exciting experiences with

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loved ones, but then also protecting

those riches to where no matter what

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happens in this world, 'cause this

world gets crazy from time to time,

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that you can have confidence in your

future, but it's even more fulfilling

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is confidence in your family's future.

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Tim Winders: Hmm.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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that would be my answer

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Tim Winders: Well what's interesting,

yeah, and there's a lot there.

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'cause I'm gonna, I wanna dig

into some of those things.

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you know, the first thing that popped in

my head when you were saying that, I think

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you mentioned you were the middle child.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Mm-hmm.

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Tim Winders: And I, I'm always intrigued.

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First of all, the background stories

are powerful because I think most people

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can point to some event in life that is

impacted and it's very crystal clear.

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You said 1996, you were 10 years old.

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you remembered where you are.

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You probably remember the smells

in the room and the feeling

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you had and things like that.

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10 years old is a pretty

interesting time for us too.

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you don't have to go through

all that went through them, but

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I'm curious about your siblings.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Mm-hmm.

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Tim Winders: What you, you were probably

concerned about yourself during that time.

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I'm not saying you were selfish, but

you were self preserving, but tell

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me a little bit about how their lives

have unfolded with what you can,

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because I'm curious about how same

situation, same thing that went on.

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Different people respond

in different ways.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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A absolutely.

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I was the middle youngest.

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So I was third in line.

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And to be honest, what I remember,

it's just shock, there's nothing

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wrong with different levels

of wealth on where you live.

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I have a buddy, he goes to Africa

and he has a mission trip there.

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It's a wonderful experience.

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And he said the kids, there are the

happiest go lucky kids in the world.

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you just bring a soccer ball or anything.

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they're so happy 'cause they

don't know what they don't know.

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Tim Winders: I.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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But when you go from a certain

level and then it seems like

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overnight in a different lifestyle,

then you quickly realize of.

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You know, a what you had and

then what you don't have.

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And so I think the, the

real emotion was, was shock.

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But I'll say this, my brothers

are extraordinary men.

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You could say I'm the

weekly in the family.

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I really mean that.

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They're great husbands,

they're great fathers.

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They're present.

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They're trying, I mean, really, I mean,

they, it's actually a very, and I told my

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mom all the time, like, you know, and, and

I get to tell my mom this all the time.

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She's my, she's a client,

she's my favorite client.

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and I love all of my clients that I

work with 'cause they're like family.

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But, you know, special is knowing what

my mom went through to go, I can say,

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Hey mom, you never have to worry again.

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You know how special that is.

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But her greatest asset is that she's

got four boys, all have degrees, all

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are successful, never been divorced.

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great father's like, it's amazing.

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And.

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asked her how she did it, and she leaves

off with, you know, Nick, a lot of prayer.

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I was thinking all the four rowdy boys

you can imagine, she's my mom's tough.

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so talking about how my brothers

responded, it's incredible.

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they really are.

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to be honest with you, I wrote a book

about money and finance and life.

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I'm still trying to figure out the

secret sauce to how my mom went.

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Four for four.

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I really, and I don't have that answer.

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I don't, except for God.

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And, know,

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Tim Winders: Yeah,

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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mother's

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Tim Winders: I mean, because that's the

most intriguing, not the most intriguing

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thing, but I think that if we could

peel away that secret, let's just be

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truthful here many times when there's

that situation, you know, you're 10 years

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old, I'm guessing you had a couple that

were older, so probably, you know, 12,

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14, 16 years old, something like that,

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Yes,

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Tim Winders: you know,

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Mm-hmm.

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Tim Winders: All kind of critical ages

in development and for all of them

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to be functioning and for nobody to

kind of rebel and say, you know what,

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I'm, I'm just ticked at the world.

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Or, you know, relationships become

a challenge and all of that.

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That's, that's quite miraculous.

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Tell me more about your mother.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Yo.

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Yeah, she, she's tough.

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I mean, but you know, and I think I see

this and even having more appreciation

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because I'm a father, I have four

kiddos, and, and I'm super fortunate.

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There is zero chance.

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I mean, I pray this never happens

to be a single parent, like my

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heart and hat go off to single

parents all around the world.

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Like what you do.

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If you're a single parent

listening right now or watching

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God bless you, you're incredible.

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Like, I really mean this all my heart.

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I don't know how you do it.

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It's amazing.

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'cause I appreciate my mom even more

now that I'm older with the family.

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I don't, I don't know what I would do.

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I mean it's amazing.

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it all turned out good, but

it doesn't mean that there

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weren't bumps along the way.

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I saw my brothers change and go

through some struggles afterwards,

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whether it be confidence in who they

are, their identity, trying to, find

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out, because that's tough on a kid

when you can wear certain clothes and

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have a certain lifestyle to now not,

I mean, I'm not saying it's right

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or wrong, but that impacts a kid's

psyche of confidence and where they

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fit in, and having to overcome that.

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so it absolutely went through

our struggles and hardships.

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But I'm telling you what, As of

right now, it's a success story.

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I really mean it.

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I am the weak link between the four boys.

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my brothers, they're good dudes.

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Tim Winders: so you mentioned prayer.

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So what was the faith, what was the

faith component like in the household?

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And, when there's a divorce and, and

I believe, were you in the south,

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were you in the Texas area growing up?

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Mm-hmm.

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Tim Winders: You know, sometimes when

there's divorce situations in the

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Bible belt, there's quite a bit of,

let's just go and say judgment that

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can be thrown on, thrown on people.

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I mean, did, was there an

ostracize ostracization or be,

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were y'all ostracized put out?

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You know what I mean?

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What, what was that like,

uh, coming along too?

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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that is a really good question.

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In fact, I should have brought

this up, piggyback on what you're

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saying is I really didn't see the

statistics of divorced children

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until about seven years ago.

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And you hit the nail on the head

earlier, like when it comes to

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alcohol abuse, drugs, things

like that of divorced, kiddos.

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It was eye-popping like you talked about.

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We, you know, and so you're right

for, to, to go through that.

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but no, I wouldn't say, and you

know, again, I was 10 years old, so

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there's probably a lot that I didn't

see that maybe my mother hid from

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me or protected, sheltered us from.

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but there were, you know, a, a little

bit of that, but also too, it could have

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been a thing like we didn't have the

finances to do some of the things and be

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involved into the things that we used to.

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So it could have been a mixed bag of

a lot of what you're talking about.

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But also too, when life changes like

that, you know, your Wednesday evenings,

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your Saturday evenings, your quote

unquote family gatherings get togethers.

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They completely change.

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Tim Winders: so was, y'all

involved with a church or faith?

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Community at all.

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what was that like?

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I'm trying to understand what happened

with 10-year-old, Nick, that then later

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led him to the financial success and

also the financial teaching and all.

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Because I, I, I think, and

we'll, we'll get into your

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relationship with money shortly.

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I think later we're gonna have a

fun conversation just about faith

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and money and things like that.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Mm-hmm.

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Tim Winders: what was your recollection

of, faith or God or anything like that?

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Because it's easy for that to be

impacted when you go through that.

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The times that you did.

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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I would absolutely say that absolutely

a huge factor in us boys turning

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out well, because my mom did a

wonderful job of keeping us active

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in the church, constantly Wednesdays,

Sundays, youth groups, mission trips.

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I remember going on a couple mission trips

that really, kept things in perspective.

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'cause even though we were going

through a tough time when you go

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different places around the world,

we were still incredibly blessed.

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if you live in the United States

of America today, I know that

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nothing's perfect, but we're lucky.

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look at different places around the world.

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And so I think my mom keeping

us active in the church and

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surrounding us with, good pillars of

strength really helped us as well.

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Tim Winders: Yeah, that's good.

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And then all that starts feeding

into who you become and who you are.

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So, I wanna connect a little bit of a

dot, but I'm still in that: 1996

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timeframe because, you know, I read your

book over the weekend, rich by Choice.

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And so let's go back to that 10-year-old

and what were the seeds in 10-year-old

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Nick that was going to lead you later

to write a book that had the word

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rich in it and that had financial,

principles, tips, and things like that.

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What can we find out from that 10-year-old

that was the beginnings of that?

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Dr. Nicholas Michels:

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Absolutely.

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if you look on from 10-year-old to,

as Nick evolved and grew, I'd say

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there's a couple of key elements.

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One was, you know, sports, and we

might get into a little more that

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way, but I mean, that was my escape.

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I mean, basketball was my escape.

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and when you're playing a sport

that happens fast, you don't have

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time to think, you just react.

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And so anything that you're dealing

with off the court was a wonderful way.

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But also it taught me,

dedication, work ethic.

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But we also had to have jobs growing up

when we were kids, which was wonderful.

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Like, I'd be up, working out in the

morning, go to school all day, work out

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for basketball and go to work at night.

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And I was doing that

five, six days a week.

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that really helps.

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And you, that work ethic.

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But also too, I'd say, you know, God wink.

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And what I mean by that is.

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God just seems to wink at

us and throughout our lives.

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And if you look back at God

winks, when you know a blessing

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and God just, things just happen.

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But it's God.

321

: 00:13:54

You know, when I was 16 years old,

I talk about this in the book.

322

: 00:13:57

I, I worked at a golf course

and it wasn't a fun job.

323

: 00:14:00

I was, shagging golf balls, cleaning

golf carts, and taking out the trash.

324

: 00:14:03

There's nothing fun about it.

325

: 00:14:04

I wish I was in the, pro shop

giving golf tips, which I didn't.

326

: 00:14:07

But Rex, the owner is a wonderful guy.

327

: 00:14:09

Rex is not a typical golf course owner.

328

: 00:14:11

He's the guy who bought a open piece

of prop, like 80 acres, and he was out

329

: 00:14:15

there with a tractor and people helping

him design the golf course himself.

330

: 00:14:18

Like that's that.

331

: 00:14:19

You don't, he's a blue collar kind

of guy and you don't see that a lot.

332

: 00:14:22

But he taught me about money.

333

: 00:14:24

He taught me about compound interest.

334

: 00:14:25

he said, Hey, let's play Who

wants to be a millionaire?

335

: 00:14:26

And he showed me, literally I wasn't

making, I think I was making $6 an hour.

336

: 00:14:31

I really don't remember the

exact, but it wasn't much.

337

: 00:14:32

But he showed me by taking a certain

portion away, I could have a lot of money.

338

: 00:14:36

by the time I'm 30.

339

: 00:14:37

And it was the first time that a light

bulb went on and go, oh my goodness.

340

: 00:14:41

You're telling me I can do this.

341

: 00:14:43

I don't have to be a Bill Gates Junior,

or, coming from a wealthy family

342

: 00:14:46

that I can build this on my own.

343

: 00:14:48

And it was the first time in my life that

a light bulb went off and go, my goodness,

344

: 00:14:53

I still have the power within me, that

my future could be brighter than my past.

345

: 00:14:59

And that was a god wink of, hey.

346

: 00:15:01

as things developed, I didn't even know

I wanted to go in the financial industry.

347

: 00:15:05

Honest truth, another god wink.

348

: 00:15:06

I had an internship, did it for

several years and just so happened

349

: 00:15:11

that a family friend was a financial

advisor and I just got an internship.

350

: 00:15:14

Just check mark the box, you know,

Hey, a path of least resistance.

351

: 00:15:17

my undergrad was actually

first part psychology.

352

: 00:15:20

Um, and then it just came

back that I loved it.

353

: 00:15:23

Math was my easy suit.

354

: 00:15:24

I loved helping people.

355

: 00:15:25

I saw the ripple effect, kinda like

when you go and you mow your grass,

356

: 00:15:28

you can see the fruits of your labor.

357

: 00:15:30

Well, same thing in the financial industry

when you start seeing the impact you have.

358

: 00:15:33

And I just think all of it with

my life and journey came full

359

: 00:15:36

circle of it was God winking at me.

360

: 00:15:39

I love it.

361

: 00:15:39

Like, this is like college football to me.

362

: 00:15:41

I love talking about it.

363

: 00:15:42

So it's kind of a little

bit about, you know,

364

: 00:15:45

Tim Winders: Well, yeah.

365

: 00:15:46

do you recall thinking about money much?

366

: 00:15:51

I mean, I used to joke all the time

about the, Scarlet O'Hara, moment

367

: 00:15:54

from Gone with the Wind where she

becomes poor and then, before the next.

368

: 00:16:00

Half of the movie, she says, as God is

my witness, I'll never be poor again.

369

: 00:16:05

You know?

370

: 00:16:06

And, uh, did you, did, did money,

uh, I'll throw some words out

371

: 00:16:11

and you could say, yeah, UR Nay.

372

: 00:16:13

Did it consume you?

373

: 00:16:15

Is it something you never thought about?

374

: 00:16:17

Did you think about it from time to time?

375

: 00:16:20

Did you say like that Scarlet O'Hare,

you know, I'm not gonna be poor.

376

: 00:16:24

What was your, what was your thought

process about money as you were in

377

: 00:16:28

your developmental years as you're,

playing sports, but also starting to go

378

: 00:16:33

to school and other things like that.

379

: 00:16:36

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

380

: 00:16:36

A absolutely.

381

: 00:16:37

You know, when you go through something

like that experience like I did, it does,

382

: 00:16:41

it stays in, in the back of your mind.

383

: 00:16:43

and it wasn't just thinking about

money, but it was also like what money

384

: 00:16:45

can do for you and what a lifestyle

that you're desiring or wanting.

385

: 00:16:49

but, but I'll be honest, I

mean, my life came full circle.

386

: 00:16:52

it really did because when I was

younger, I thought it was just money.

387

: 00:16:55

It's like, Hey, I, if I get money, then

this piece and security will come back.

388

: 00:16:59

This joy, you know, all the void of what

I lost or the lifestyle I had or got to

389

: 00:17:04

experience, I thought it was just money.

390

: 00:17:06

But, you know, Tim, I was wrong.

391

: 00:17:08

You know, I call it outwardly

successful, but inwardly stressed.

392

: 00:17:11

I mean, all the things I wanted

to help people with, I talked

393

: 00:17:13

about that ripple effect.

394

: 00:17:14

when I was newly married, I, you know,

success on the outside was growing.

395

: 00:17:18

Money, assets, this or that.

396

: 00:17:20

My happiness level wasn't going with

that, you know, with as quickly as that.

397

: 00:17:25

And so I was missing a key element.

398

: 00:17:27

and I can, we can dive into that,

but there's a lot more there.

399

: 00:17:31

'cause it's not just money, When I was

younger, Wanting money, wanting a certain

400

: 00:17:37

lifestyle would be in the back of my mind.

401

: 00:17:40

Tim Winders: did you think that

sports might be your ticket or your

402

: 00:17:45

way out or was that just 'cause

you were good and it something that

403

: 00:17:49

just the doors kept opening up?

404

: 00:17:50

What was I, 'cause I saw where you

played pro ball over in Europe.

405

: 00:17:55

There was also one comment that

you weren't necessarily great at

406

: 00:17:59

negotiating your contract or something

like that, which then makes me wonder

407

: 00:18:04

about the, it makes me ask another

question about the money thing.

408

: 00:18:07

But, tell me more about that.

409

: 00:18:10

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

410

: 00:18:10

Yeah.

411

: 00:18:10

You know, so basketball was my way out,

to be honest with you, but it wasn't

412

: 00:18:14

my way out as in to a life of money.

413

: 00:18:16

It was my way out of, 'cause my

mom, like I said, there wasn't

414

: 00:18:20

money there to pay for college.

415

: 00:18:21

And that's not my mom's fault, it's

just we weren't in a position like,

416

: 00:18:24

oh my brothers, they're incredible.

417

: 00:18:26

they put themselves through school.

418

: 00:18:27

I mean, it's amazing.

419

: 00:18:28

And so that was the same as me.

420

: 00:18:29

So to be honest with you, it is either

gonna be the military or athletics.

421

: 00:18:33

And both are, in my

opinion, a great option.

422

: 00:18:35

because you can, you know, that

could happen or what it looks

423

: 00:18:38

like, kind of a long shot.

424

: 00:18:39

and so.

425

: 00:18:40

Yes.

426

: 00:18:41

When, I was 21, just turned 22,

you know, get an opportunity.

427

: 00:18:45

you remember Seinfeld when Kramer gets

sued over a coffee spit on coffee and they

428

: 00:18:49

make an offer a free coffee for life and

he could have gotten so much money, but he

429

: 00:18:52

jumped up and he goes, yes, I'll take it.

430

: 00:18:54

that was me.

431

: 00:18:55

I was just like an opportunity to

play basketball and travel the world.

432

: 00:18:57

Yes, I'll do it.

433

: 00:18:59

Um, I didn't, you know, because

you know the whole, this

434

: 00:19:02

is gonna be my way of life.

435

: 00:19:04

I never really thought that it

was just like another God wink.

436

: 00:19:07

but I knew that academics could be

my way out in the sense of, hey.

437

: 00:19:13

You have basketball, you have some

talent, you're getting a great

438

: 00:19:16

blessing and opportunity that

you get your college paid for.

439

: 00:19:18

And I went to a great school, Dallas

Baptist University, my undergrad to a

440

: 00:19:22

private university, first class education.

441

: 00:19:24

There was no way I could afford to

go there if it wasn't for sports.

442

: 00:19:28

And that place, it really changed my life.

443

: 00:19:30

it's a wonderful place and it

taught me, you know, of growing in

444

: 00:19:33

my faith not to compartmentalize

Christ and what it means for that.

445

: 00:19:37

And so that really helped,

with my spiritual growth.

446

: 00:19:40

Tim Winders: Was there a time, you

know, you said you grew up around

447

: 00:19:43

church in a church situation, but

I've noticed that most of us, we.

448

: 00:19:51

Possibly piggyback on either our parents

or someone else's faith for a while.

449

: 00:19:56

And then there's a time in

life where it becomes our own.

450

: 00:20:01

And you know, some people say, oh,

that's their salvation experience.

451

: 00:20:05

I'm not totally with that theology.

452

: 00:20:08

I think sometimes it's when we

finally hit our knees, finally

453

: 00:20:12

submit, finally surrender, whatever.

454

: 00:20:15

And sometimes that's, a

situation or something like that.

455

: 00:20:19

When I bring that up, is there a

time that comes to your mind when

456

: 00:20:23

you go, you know what, this is

when I became a follower of Christ.

457

: 00:20:28

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

458

: 00:20:28

Absolutely.

459

: 00:20:29

I know it.

460

: 00:20:29

you know, first there's two times.

461

: 00:20:33

The first one is yes, when I willingly

accepted Christ and took that step.

462

: 00:20:37

And then the second one would

be in baptism, that first act

463

: 00:20:39

of obedience, but the one.

464

: 00:20:42

Time that I remember with that.

465

: 00:20:43

I doubt.

466

: 00:20:43

I think what you're kind of talking

about was when I hit my knees and this is

467

: 00:20:46

silly, but this was a life changing moment

again, is, my first two years playing

468

: 00:20:49

college basketball or junior college,

I was a little undersized coming outta

469

: 00:20:52

high school and I was on Moody's five

star, which is kind of a big recruiting

470

: 00:20:56

thing for junior college players

going on to four year universities.

471

: 00:20:59

the thing was, I wasn't getting recruited

by the schools that I thought I wanted.

472

: 00:21:04

the schools that I thought were

premier, division one schools, and

473

: 00:21:07

for me in my world, which sounds

silly now, but I was consumed by

474

: 00:21:10

that, that was kind of my life.

475

: 00:21:11

I gave everything to basketball and

this is my goal and this is what I

476

: 00:21:13

wanted to do it wasn't turning out.

477

: 00:21:16

And I have a friend of mine, his

name's Doug, he was my guidance

478

: 00:21:19

counselor, he is my brother.

479

: 00:21:19

I love him to death one night

and I'm racking myself up, you

480

: 00:21:24

know, working up again, anxiety.

481

: 00:21:25

And he goes, Nick, have

you prayed about it?

482

: 00:21:30

And the answer was no.

483

: 00:21:31

You know, Nick have, you

know, essentially, did

484

: 00:21:33

you turn this over to God?

485

: 00:21:34

No, I mean all these things.

486

: 00:21:37

I remember I got on my knees that night

and I said, God, whatever you want.

487

: 00:21:40

the very next day I got a call from, my

college coach was Blake Flicker at DBU.

488

: 00:21:46

He calls me at like eight o'clock in the

morning who calls a college kid to recruit

489

: 00:21:49

him at eight o'clock in the morning.

490

: 00:21:50

You know, wanna be half asleep.

491

: 00:21:52

He started talking.

492

: 00:21:53

I fell asleep when he was on the phone.

493

: 00:21:55

I'm not kidding.

494

: 00:21:56

I feel so bad at that.

495

: 00:21:57

I've never told him the story.

496

: 00:21:57

I, but I was just, it was eight

o'clock in the morning and

497

: 00:22:00

he was telling me, I woke up.

498

: 00:22:01

I think 10, 12 minutes

later he's still talking.

499

: 00:22:04

I would've never taken that visit,

but I felt terrible that I did that.

500

: 00:22:07

'cause I, I would never do that.

501

: 00:22:08

And so remember it.

502

: 00:22:11

I was driving up on a hill

'cause DBU sits on a hill.

503

: 00:22:13

My brother and I were

driving up for the visit.

504

: 00:22:15

'cause I, I wasn't gonna take it.

505

: 00:22:16

I was just doing it at a courtesy I

felt this overwhelming peace that,

506

: 00:22:21

oh my goodness, that was unique.

507

: 00:22:23

I didn't feel a whole lot.

508

: 00:22:25

I'm not saying God opened the heavens

and spoke to me, but it was this peace

509

: 00:22:28

in my heart, like an answered prayer.

510

: 00:22:31

And it didn't matter what coach did,

it didn't matter what he showed me.

511

: 00:22:34

I was going to DBU and it, guess what?

512

: 00:22:36

That was like my springboard.

513

: 00:22:38

and I did that again, I felt that

same prayer before going overseas.

514

: 00:22:41

I said, God, if you want this to happen,

I'll be a, a feather in the wind.

515

: 00:22:44

I pulled my car on the side of the

road, same thing, and I felt that peace.

516

: 00:22:47

And so the, what you're asking is that,

that moment we go to our knees and, and

517

: 00:22:51

the thing is, I wish I could tell you that

I'm this perfect Christian, and, every

518

: 00:22:54

time I deal with a difficult situation,

I turn it over to God and the answer's

519

: 00:22:57

no 'cause I'm still hardheaded that I

still have to be reminded sometimes,

520

: 00:23:01

Hey, did you turn this over to God?

521

: 00:23:03

You know, have you done this?

522

: 00:23:03

And so it's all still growing, but

that, it was a very pivotal point in my

523

: 00:23:07

faith where was a, a realization, Hey,

you don't have to do this on your own.

524

: 00:23:13

Tim Winders: I think a lot of us,

you know, you're, you're skilled,

525

: 00:23:16

you're talented, you're good.

526

: 00:23:17

You know, you said you were a Moody's

five star, so you, Probably thought,

527

: 00:23:21

okay, you know, I've been blessed.

528

: 00:23:23

I've got this talent and all, plus I've

been working hard, you know, shooting

529

: 00:23:26

hoops outside, everything like that.

530

: 00:23:29

There's also a word, I think you brought

it up in your book related to finance.

531

: 00:23:32

We'll talk about it in a little while.

532

: 00:23:33

this aspect of control.

533

: 00:23:36

you believe you have control.

534

: 00:23:38

Which I think is a myth.

535

: 00:23:40

I do think there's a choice that we

have in your book, rich by Choice,

536

: 00:23:44

but I also think that there's a

certain degree of surrender that,

537

: 00:23:47

we can guide it and lead it so much.

538

: 00:23:50

But yet, just like you said, when

you, oh boy here, it's come to prayer

539

: 00:23:55

that it's gotten so bad and now

I've got to pray and, and, and you

540

: 00:24:00

mentioned being the perfect Christian.

541

: 00:24:01

I don't, I don't even know

those words go together.

542

: 00:24:03

but what it comes down to is what

we will often do is people that are

543

: 00:24:08

wired like you are, like I am like

a lot of our listeners, they're

544

: 00:24:11

leaders, they're successful, quote

unquote in, in the world system.

545

: 00:24:16

But we kind of get in this mode

where we believe we're all that

546

: 00:24:20

and we kind of forget who we

serve and what we're all about.

547

: 00:24:23

and I think that's our ebb and flow.

548

: 00:24:25

throughout life.

549

: 00:24:26

So, one of the things I

wanna jump a little bit here,

550

: 00:24:30

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

551

: 00:24:30

Sure.

552

: 00:24:31

Tim Winders: 'cause I read

between the lines in your book.

553

: 00:24:35

this is something that's always

fascinating to me with guys like

554

: 00:24:39

yourself and others that are, successful.

555

: 00:24:43

They've done well in certain things,

but to me, the most successful thing

556

: 00:24:51

that we do is choose our spouse, or

the Lord chooses our spouse for us.

557

: 00:24:56

And I've seen her, I mean, in y'all's

pictures I see a picture, I think

558

: 00:25:00

it's Chelsea or Chelsea is her name,

and I'm like going, just like a lot

559

: 00:25:04

of us, she married way up the food

chain, which is pretty obvious on that.

560

: 00:25:08

But, tell me how that came about.

561

: 00:25:13

Because what I really found is that

many times you're talking about a

562

: 00:25:15

god wink or miracle or whatever.

563

: 00:25:19

Many of us, our real

success, either we were.

564

: 00:25:24

Ready for it, or God

said This guy needs this.

565

: 00:25:29

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

566

: 00:25:29

Mm-hmm.

567

: 00:25:29

Tim Winders: tell me more about

Chelsea and how she came to be

568

: 00:25:32

and, helped you, really get to the

levels you've gotten him to in life.

569

: 00:25:37

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

570

: 00:25:37

Oh, absolutely.

571

: 00:25:37

I mean, it is, I, I, and I tell my kids

to this day, you know, who you decide

572

: 00:25:42

to marry is the second most important

decision you'll ever make in your life.

573

: 00:25:45

And I truly believe that.

574

: 00:25:46

Now, I'm still young.

575

: 00:25:47

I don't got the whole world figured out,

and I might be wrong, but oh my goodness.

576

: 00:25:49

You to pick up the cross and follow

Christ number one without a doubt.

577

: 00:25:54

And then, and what that pursues next.

578

: 00:25:56

But then the thing is who you marry.

579

: 00:25:57

I, oh my goodness.

580

: 00:25:58

Yes, it is.

581

: 00:25:59

And I, I lucky.

582

: 00:26:00

I'm lucky.

583

: 00:26:01

I got so lucky and I tried to

mess it up so many times before.

584

: 00:26:03

I mean, I, you know, I

spoke, my brother's a pastor.

585

: 00:26:05

I spoke at his disciple now one time,

and I said, you know, if God himself

586

: 00:26:09

came down when I was 17, 18 years old

and told me to write out everything I

587

: 00:26:12

wanted her wife describe her, It wouldn't

even been close to what Chelsea is.

588

: 00:26:17

I and I, and I say, and

I really mean that today.

589

: 00:26:19

I mean, it, it really is.

590

: 00:26:21

she's amazing.

591

: 00:26:22

I mean, she is so much better in

me, in so many different ways.

592

: 00:26:25

And, and she's the glue

that holds it all together.

593

: 00:26:27

She's incredible.

594

: 00:26:28

And she does it with

such grace and beauty.

595

: 00:26:30

I mean, you know, when we first got

married, I was making so many, being

596

: 00:26:34

young and dumb, I mean, I remember it

like I was handling all the finances.

597

: 00:26:38

I was, it was just silly.

598

: 00:26:39

And it wasn't a man woman power.

599

: 00:26:40

No.

600

: 00:26:40

It was just, I was a financial advisor.

601

: 00:26:42

I thought that's how I served my family.

602

: 00:26:43

Like, I should do this.

603

: 00:26:44

Right?

604

: 00:26:44

Like I thought it was, and you

know, again, we were on our way

605

: 00:26:48

home from a little weekend getaway.

606

: 00:26:50

we went to Lubbock, Texas to watch

Texas Tech where she went to school.

607

: 00:26:53

It was a fun place.

608

: 00:26:54

Played golf with buddies, go to some

football games, hang out with friends.

609

: 00:26:58

But on the way home we got into another

money disagreement and it wasn't a

610

: 00:27:01

fight, but it was the same agreement

over, we just weren't on the same page.

611

: 00:27:04

It's like spinning your wheels in the

mud, and we all know what that is.

612

: 00:27:07

I mean, money and finance is number

one cause of, of marital spats.

613

: 00:27:11

And pulled the car over and it just

to breathe because it was like we

614

: 00:27:15

were having the same conversations

and we weren't going anywhere.

615

: 00:27:19

And I remember she said something

to me and she goes, I just wanna

616

: 00:27:22

know that we're in this together.

617

: 00:27:26

And in my mind I was kind of

like, what are you talking about?

618

: 00:27:30

Like, man, yeah, we're in this together.

619

: 00:27:31

This is why I get up every morning.

620

: 00:27:33

This is why we do what we do.

621

: 00:27:35

And so I reached out, I had these

mentors and they gave me some

622

: 00:27:37

books to read and some exercises.

623

: 00:27:39

And it talks about that leaving

Cleveland becoming one flesh when you

624

: 00:27:42

get married, how important that is.

625

: 00:27:43

And you know, Tim, I

thought I was doing it.

626

: 00:27:45

I was trying to do it.

627

: 00:27:46

I knew the concept, but I

wasn't living it just because I

628

: 00:27:48

didn't know what I didn't know.

629

: 00:27:50

And that sparked something in

our marriage We did this exercise

630

: 00:27:55

together, it's the vision statement.

631

: 00:27:56

you take 10 pieces of paper and you

go to your own parts of the house and

632

: 00:28:00

literally you think about your life

and write out everything you want to

633

: 00:28:02

accomplish and not just, Hey, I wanna

retire, or, Hey, I wanna start a business,

634

: 00:28:06

or, Hey, I wanna start a podcast.

635

: 00:28:07

No, you go into detail of specifics

of what that's gonna look like.

636

: 00:28:11

when you're gonna do it, the exact

life, how you're gonna travel, what your

637

: 00:28:14

hobbies are, what's your relationship

like with your, your kids and family.

638

: 00:28:18

And so you ride it all out and then

you come together and you go over it.

639

: 00:28:21

we had a lot that were similar, but

we had a lot that were different.

640

: 00:28:24

And that was fun.

641

: 00:28:24

We learned a lot about each other.

642

: 00:28:26

But it was us getting together

saying, Hey Chelsea, do you want?

643

: 00:28:30

What does that look like?

644

: 00:28:31

Why do you want it?

645

: 00:28:32

You know, it's silly that we

never, life was coming at as fast.

646

: 00:28:35

We didn't do those things.

647

: 00:28:36

and not in the detail that this exercise

that I go over in my book and that we did

648

: 00:28:39

together, but Tim, that moment completely

changed our relationship because, you

649

: 00:28:43

know, I'll be honest with you, saving.

650

: 00:28:45

Investing.

651

: 00:28:46

It's boring.

652

: 00:28:47

I mean, I was getting my

paycheck to money coming out.

653

: 00:28:49

That's not fun.

654

: 00:28:50

But when you're building something

together, you get excited about it.

655

: 00:28:53

And so, us doing that and, and us yes.

656

: 00:28:56

Running a company

together, it's so much fun.

657

: 00:28:58

And none of this would've

been possible without her.

658

: 00:29:02

Tim Winders: Yeah, and

it highlights something.

659

: 00:29:04

I think, we'll go ahead

and go into this now.

660

: 00:29:05

right before we hit record, I said I love

talking to what I call money guys that,

661

: 00:29:13

you know, money is in your DNA with what

you do, and it's part of your business and

662

: 00:29:20

everything, and there's a faith component

to it because I love tying in the biblical

663

: 00:29:26

and the faith component with money because

I think in many circles it gets really

664

: 00:29:31

weird and people don't know how to do it.

665

: 00:29:34

And anyway, it can get odd.

666

: 00:29:36

I think the same thing can happen.

667

: 00:29:38

When we're talking about husband and

wife, it can often just be difficult

668

: 00:29:44

for people to talk about money.

669

: 00:29:45

I can't relate to that.

670

: 00:29:47

'cause often I think I

talk too much about money.

671

: 00:29:49

I mean, it's like, Hey,

how much did you make, man?

672

: 00:29:51

How much?

673

: 00:29:52

What's your car, man?

674

: 00:29:53

It's like, oh man, how much should you

make playing college ball, you know,

675

: 00:29:56

playing when you were playing pro ball?

676

: 00:29:57

Come on, man.

677

: 00:29:58

and that's a taboo unfortunately,

in the world we're in.

678

: 00:30:00

I'm like going, nah, I mean, let's

come on, let's talk about it, but talk

679

: 00:30:04

about whatever you want to related to

the challenges with faith and money.

680

: 00:30:12

And then to piggyback on what you

just mentioned with the difficulty

681

: 00:30:15

that, Chelsea and you had, just

682

: 00:30:17

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

683

: 00:30:17

Mm-hmm.

684

: 00:30:17

Tim Winders: about money

is tough for people.

685

: 00:30:21

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

686

: 00:30:21

it is.

687

: 00:30:22

and I learned this not only with my

experience working with families,

688

: 00:30:25

but also my own personal experience.

689

: 00:30:27

I mean, as a husband, I wanted to

be, you know, my job, I don't wanna

690

: 00:30:31

say my job, but I felt the need

to be, Hey, I want to give Chelsea

691

: 00:30:34

everything I wanna provide for her.

692

: 00:30:36

I wanna get her this and that,

and do these things and be,

693

: 00:30:38

the Superman in her life.

694

: 00:30:40

Like, that's what I wanted.

695

: 00:30:41

And if I couldn't do that, it's very

typical, and I've seen this a lot with

696

: 00:30:44

other spouses, that they feel inadequate.

697

: 00:30:47

So when Chelsea would be talking about,

Hey, these are things that she wants

698

: 00:30:49

to accomplish, and I couldn't, we

couldn't quite get there yet, I would

699

: 00:30:53

get a little anxiety or stressed or,

you know, Hey, I can't do that now.

700

: 00:30:56

And you just have to understand and get to

know each other on the psychology side of,

701

: 00:31:00

Hey, what does money look like to them?

702

: 00:31:03

And that's why the vision statement's

so important of, Hey, what do you want?

703

: 00:31:06

what does things look like in detail?

704

: 00:31:07

So it is, I mean, I can't tell you

how important communication is.

705

: 00:31:10

I learned this, and you didn't ask

me this, but I'll tell you, you know,

706

: 00:31:13

anytime something big happens in our life,

whether we have another child, we start

707

: 00:31:17

a business, we move locations, anything

that big, we're creatures of habit.

708

: 00:31:20

When the ground shakes beneath us,

things can kinda get sketchy or wobbly.

709

: 00:31:25

Chelsea and I are real quick to

get into some sort of marriage

710

: 00:31:28

devotional, counseling marriage groups.

711

: 00:31:31

And we do that, not even if we're

having problems, 'cause what it does

712

: 00:31:34

is it keeps the line of communication

open because life gets busy.

713

: 00:31:38

You know, before you know it, like after

here, I'm coaching my son in baseball.

714

: 00:31:42

we're running a business.

715

: 00:31:42

we're on the go a lot.

716

: 00:31:43

We're in that season of life, which

is a fun season, it makes us stay

717

: 00:31:47

grounded of, Hey, let's check in.

718

: 00:31:49

How are things going?

719

: 00:31:50

How you feeling?

720

: 00:31:51

Chelsea's one, she'll tell

you what's on her heart.

721

: 00:31:54

I remember our first time we

were doing devotion together.

722

: 00:31:55

I said, you know, hey.

723

: 00:31:57

What perceived notions did you

have before we got married?

724

: 00:32:00

Where am I succeeding

and where am I failing?

725

: 00:32:03

I tell you what, when I asked her,

she answered, I learned very quickly

726

: 00:32:06

that I better be prepared if I'm asked

those questions, but it's important.

727

: 00:32:08

So the first thing you talk about

money and taboo is especially with your

728

: 00:32:12

spouse, you know, constantly check in

and what I love about books that we

729

: 00:32:16

do together, it's dummy proof for me.

730

: 00:32:19

I can literally read the chapter

and I can go line by line of those

731

: 00:32:22

intentional questions, those Oprah

ended coach, that make it easy on me.

732

: 00:32:25

And then especially, it starts and

then the conversation just goes.

733

: 00:32:28

But oh my goodness, do that.

734

: 00:32:30

It's been such a blessing

for our relationship and

735

: 00:32:33

continue to grow together.

736

: 00:32:34

So that's a lot of fun.

737

: 00:32:35

And then money and faith, I mean, yeah.

738

: 00:32:38

Do you want me to go

into that, that store?

739

: 00:32:40

I'll open that up and we can talk

about that because there's a lot there.

740

: 00:32:42

Tim Winders: yeah.

741

: 00:32:43

Before you do that, I wanna ask

something that I've had my wife.

742

: 00:32:47

Because I consider myself a coach.

743

: 00:32:49

Always wanted to be a coach.

744

: 00:32:51

Growing up thought I was gonna be

a coach, like for athletics and,

745

: 00:32:55

in the education field, both my

parents were educators until one day

746

: 00:32:59

I found out how much money they made

and I went, I'm not gonna do that.

747

: 00:33:02

I didn't know we were poor growing up.

748

: 00:33:03

I thought we had more money.

749

: 00:33:05

but everything I've done has kind of

gone back to coaching and I've had

750

: 00:33:08

my wife tell me this, and I think

this sort of relates to money too.

751

: 00:33:11

So I'm gonna ask you

752

: 00:33:12

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

753

: 00:33:12

Mm-hmm.

754

: 00:33:13

Tim Winders: a transparent type question.

755

: 00:33:16

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

756

: 00:33:16

Sure.

757

: 00:33:17

Tim Winders: my wife tell me at

times that I, I can be better at

758

: 00:33:25

interacting, coaching, nurturing

others than inside my household.

759

: 00:33:34

And so you deal with money, you

help people work through money,

760

: 00:33:40

and I'm sure that she sees

you do that with other people.

761

: 00:33:45

Do you at times do that better outside

your household than you do inside?

762

: 00:33:53

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

763

: 00:33:53

Yeah, that is a really good question.

764

: 00:33:54

And I would say absolutely yes.

765

: 00:33:56

There's times of that

just because what I do.

766

: 00:33:59

Just like you, I'm a coach

essentially as well, just like you.

767

: 00:34:01

And so you kind of get

to that, that point.

768

: 00:34:03

So that's why I love the books like

John Gottman's got a couple of 'em,

769

: 00:34:07

and I love that because it's an outline

too, where I can't just step in and go,

770

: 00:34:11

okay, hey, this is what we need to do.

771

: 00:34:13

This is, tell me your thoughts.

772

: 00:34:14

Tell me why.

773

: 00:34:15

Let's connect on a deeper, level where,

and that's so important where I and

774

: 00:34:18

I, and I'm not ashamed to tell you

some of those, marriage devotionals.

775

: 00:34:21

I go strictly by the book and I'll

follow it 1, 2, 3, 4, and then

776

: 00:34:25

afterwards it'll lead to other thing.

777

: 00:34:26

But I do just because to avoid

what you're talking about and, um.

778

: 00:34:31

I could tell you that I was

this genius husband that could

779

: 00:34:34

do it all on my own, but oh my.

780

: 00:34:36

No, it's so much help.

781

: 00:34:37

and then also we're very lucky to

have, people in our lives to where we

782

: 00:34:42

can reach out and go, Hey, I'm dealing

with this, I'm dealing with that.

783

: 00:34:46

that's really important to us.

784

: 00:34:48

and we've been very blessed in the sense

that we have a peer group of individuals

785

: 00:34:52

and mentors that, we're surrounded by.

786

: 00:34:54

Tim Winders: Hmm.

787

: 00:34:55

I noticed also you that,

you have a foundation.

788

: 00:34:58

We have a foundation with our family

also, that we are attempting to do

789

: 00:35:06

some things together to give, to

educate and other things like that.

790

: 00:35:11

Tell me just briefly about that.

791

: 00:35:13

I think a lot of people don't

understand that concept.

792

: 00:35:17

They don't want to spend a lot of

time on it, because I want us to

793

: 00:35:19

get to some things that are in the

book, but tell me a little bit about

794

: 00:35:22

your foundation and what y'all are

trying to do there with your kids.

795

: 00:35:25

And tell me, gimme the ages roughly

of your kids because, I think

796

: 00:35:29

many times the foundation, you're

probably tying your kids in with it

797

: 00:35:34

too, where you can, I'm guessing.

798

: 00:35:36

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

799

: 00:35:36

Absolutely.

800

: 00:35:36

I mean, we have four

kiddos, two boys, two girls.

801

: 00:35:39

Starts at 19.

802

: 00:35:40

Our oldest son, is Dagan.

803

: 00:35:42

We have a 9-year-old little girl, Kinsley,

a 5-year-old little boy named Brooks.

804

: 00:35:46

And then we have a almost

2-year-old named Everly.

805

: 00:35:49

And so we have a gap there.

806

: 00:35:50

But I

807

: 00:35:51

Tim Winders: Wow.

808

: 00:35:51

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

809

: 00:35:51

because yeah, the, the older ones are fun.

810

: 00:35:54

'cause during that season of

life where they're active.

811

: 00:35:57

You can go to like our oldest, you can

go to college football games, you can,

812

: 00:35:59

you know, play golf, do those fun things.

813

: 00:36:01

And the younger ones, and dad,

are still cool to them where they

814

: 00:36:04

wanna give you hugs and kisses

and, and, and cuddle with you.

815

: 00:36:07

So it, it's wonderful.

816

: 00:36:09

And so the foundation is really

us giving back on people like I

817

: 00:36:12

talked about, Rex, us giving back

on people who have influenced us

818

: 00:36:14

and things that've influenced us.

819

: 00:36:15

So we talked about Rex that, you know,

teaching us finances and or teaching me

820

: 00:36:19

finance and how it empowered my life.

821

: 00:36:20

So we will go to high schools

and we, we buy 'em a bunch of

822

: 00:36:24

Chick-fil-A and gift cards and money.

823

: 00:36:26

We make it a fun environment

and we teach 'em about money.

824

: 00:36:28

We teach 'em about life.

825

: 00:36:30

because my goal is if they can

just start, 'cause everything

826

: 00:36:33

in your life is compounding.

827

: 00:36:34

It's not just money.

828

: 00:36:35

And if you can start a money

education, you can spark an

829

: 00:36:37

interest like Rex did with me.

830

: 00:36:39

Then they'll pay attention.

831

: 00:36:40

Something else will come along six

months or a year later and they'll

832

: 00:36:42

catch onto that and then it just starts

their growth period a lot faster.

833

: 00:36:46

And then they're seeing

it from someone who.

834

: 00:36:48

Was similar to them, walked in their

shoes because I'm not a teacher and

835

: 00:36:51

teachers are wonderful, but I'm someone

from the outside that not getting

836

: 00:36:53

paid to be there, just doing it.

837

: 00:36:55

and so we have education

material where they can jump on

838

: 00:36:57

and start to learn even more.

839

: 00:36:59

We also do things like sending kids and

families to camp, and that's church camp.

840

: 00:37:04

Like we go to family camp.

841

: 00:37:05

It's been amazing for our family.

842

: 00:37:08

So we have some of the process

foundations send families to family

843

: 00:37:10

camp, which is like gonna church

camp, but entire families go.

844

: 00:37:13

It's a amazing, it's really neat dynamic.

845

: 00:37:15

and then we send kids to church camp

the summertime just because those things

846

: 00:37:18

helped us when we were younger growing up.

847

: 00:37:20

And so our foundation is, you know, trying

to give back on things that I really,

848

: 00:37:24

we've been blessed with on helping people.

849

: 00:37:26

And I truly believe this, that our goal is

to give people a hand up, not a handout.

850

: 00:37:31

And there's nothing wrong with

a handout because some people

851

: 00:37:32

need that from time to time.

852

: 00:37:33

But really try to help people

elevate themselves to where they can

853

: 00:37:36

create a better life on their own.

854

: 00:37:38

Tim Winders: Mm-hmm.

855

: 00:37:39

Yeah, that's good.

856

: 00:37:39

There was something you mentioned,

I kind of brought it up earlier, but

857

: 00:37:42

in the book here, it was a chapter

where you talked about, I guess, one

858

: 00:37:48

of your girls had been rushed to the

hospital and there was a sickness

859

: 00:37:52

and all, and we can mention that, but

860

: 00:37:54

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

861

: 00:37:54

Yeah,

862

: 00:37:56

Tim Winders: That week changed me

forever because I finally understood.

863

: 00:37:59

Control is an illusion, but

love, purpose, and gratitude.

864

: 00:38:04

That is what remains unshaken.

865

: 00:38:06

I also at times think that if we put

our trust, this kind of goes back to a

866

: 00:38:12

fate thing, our trust in the finances.

867

: 00:38:15

And it's interesting, the word rich.

868

: 00:38:17

We'll talk more about

what rich means shortly.

869

: 00:38:20

I, there was a period of time where

I put quite a bit of trust and I was

870

: 00:38:25

saved and following after the Lord.

871

: 00:38:26

I believed at the time,

872

: 00:38:28

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

873

: 00:38:28

Mm-hmm.

874

: 00:38:28

Tim Winders: a lot in my bank account

and what I had and I think that that

875

: 00:38:33

was a bit of an illusion for me.

876

: 00:38:36

Also talk about control, and I'm kind

of tying in a bit of a faith component

877

: 00:38:42

with this too, and how much of what we

think we control, we probably don't,

878

: 00:38:49

and I think people that are wired a

lot the way we are and the listener is

879

: 00:38:54

we really desire to have that control.

880

: 00:38:57

So just whatever you wanna

say about it, just share.

881

: 00:39:00

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

882

: 00:39:00

absolutely.

883

: 00:39:00

And if someone has that desire, you

talked about how you were a little

884

: 00:39:04

bit more control on your bank count.

885

: 00:39:05

I mean, that's human nature.

886

: 00:39:07

I mean, we're imperfect creatures

trying to live in an imperfect world,

887

: 00:39:10

so don't beat yourself up over it.

888

: 00:39:11

I mean, my daughter got really sick and,

you know, not to go into the details, but

889

: 00:39:16

they didn't know what was wrong with her.

890

: 00:39:17

And some of the symptoms she was showing

was very similar to cancer patients.

891

: 00:39:20

I mean, we had transferred

the cancer ward.

892

: 00:39:22

I mean, can you imagine walking in to

the cancer ward with all these beautiful

893

: 00:39:27

kids, but they're fighting for their

life and by the grace of God it comes

894

: 00:39:30

out that it was something really simple

that she had, was cured and we were

895

: 00:39:34

out within a few days, but leaving.

896

: 00:39:38

That cancer ward, you know, there,

there's a bunch of kiddos there that never

897

: 00:39:42

left and that's heartbreaking, but they

had their beautiful kids and smiles on

898

: 00:39:46

their faces and I mean, they so strong.

899

: 00:39:49

And you realize that control.

900

: 00:39:51

Oh my goodness.

901

: 00:39:52

I mean, there's nothing, if that was

my daughter and that was God's fate for

902

: 00:39:55

her, there's nothing I could have done.

903

: 00:39:56

the control is an illusion.

904

: 00:39:58

And also too putting, like you talk

about your faith and, and where

905

: 00:40:01

you focus on what's on your heart.

906

: 00:40:04

you know, if it's just money or, or

pride in that, I mean that there's

907

: 00:40:07

not a lot of happiness in that.

908

: 00:40:09

There's not.

909

: 00:40:10

and so when it comes to control,

you've gotta put your faith in God.

910

: 00:40:14

Now, I will say this though, when it

comes to control, it's not really control,

911

: 00:40:17

but God, we're made in God's image.

912

: 00:40:19

And part of that is intellectually we can

absolutely grow and intellect and choose

913

: 00:40:22

to make the right choices to benefit

our, not only our money, but our lives

914

: 00:40:26

as well and be proactive and intentional.

915

: 00:40:29

and you can control that.

916

: 00:40:30

You can control your actions.

917

: 00:40:31

Now, a lot of things we don't

control, but those things you can.

918

: 00:40:35

So it's kind of a balance

of, hey, what do they say?

919

: 00:40:38

control the things you can control and

pray about the things you can't, which

920

: 00:40:40

there's so many things that you can't,

which I'm the first to admit that.

921

: 00:40:43

But there are some things that

we can be intentional about,

922

: 00:40:47

you know, going forward.

923

: 00:40:49

Tim Winders: Yeah,

924

: 00:40:49

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

925

: 00:40:49

difference.

926

: 00:40:49

You are correct.

927

: 00:40:50

Tim Winders: sure.

928

: 00:40:51

Your daughter's doing well now.

929

: 00:40:52

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

930

: 00:40:52

Oh my goodness.

931

: 00:40:53

There's one thing.

932

: 00:40:54

It was Wow.

933

: 00:40:55

But yes, thank the good Lord.

934

: 00:40:56

She's good.

935

: 00:40:57

she's sassy as ever.

936

: 00:40:58

It gives me attitude, but she's wonderful.

937

: 00:41:01

Tim Winders: Very good.

938

: 00:41:01

All right, so talking about control,

if I look over your right shoulder,

939

: 00:41:05

rich by Choice is your book.

940

: 00:41:06

I've got

941

: 00:41:07

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

942

: 00:41:07

Mm-hmm.

943

: 00:41:08

Tim Winders: copy right here.

944

: 00:41:08

I'll hold up for those that are watching.

945

: 00:41:10

The subtitle is Take Back Control,

946

: 00:41:14

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

947

: 00:41:14

Mm-hmm.

948

: 00:41:15

Tim Winders: master your Money,

and Design the Life of Your Dream.

949

: 00:41:18

So obviously there are some things

that we can't control, but then

950

: 00:41:22

there's some things that we can, that's

where this rich by choice comes in.

951

: 00:41:25

We've got a few minutes left here.

952

: 00:41:27

So tell me, tell me the purpose,

what, why'd you write this book?

953

: 00:41:32

And then let's hit a few nuggets.

954

: 00:41:34

What, why'd you write this book

and, uh, and see what we can glean

955

: 00:41:38

through outta control as far as money

956

: 00:41:40

goes.

957

: 00:41:41

So, tell me more.

958

: 00:41:42

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

959

: 00:41:42

yeah, it was actually a lot of

events that came into place at once.

960

: 00:41:45

you know, it was in the financial

world and I wanted to document,

961

: 00:41:47

almost journal everything.

962

: 00:41:48

I was learning to simplify it that way.

963

: 00:41:50

What, and I was doing that, but at

the same time, my pastor did a series.

964

: 00:41:54

Pastor Rick says what the Bible doesn't

say, and it was a fascinating experience.

965

: 00:41:58

He talked about a lot of different

things in there, like, that people

966

: 00:42:01

would think, Hey, the Bible says this.

967

: 00:42:02

In reality, it doesn't

like one that caught mine.

968

: 00:42:04

Well, everyone knows, hey, the, the, the

love of money is the root of all evil.

969

: 00:42:08

It's not money is evil.

970

: 00:42:09

So that's a very common one.

971

: 00:42:10

He did that one, but another

one he did was gambling.

972

: 00:42:12

Betting.

973

: 00:42:13

Now, I'm not here to say one

is right or wrong, so please

974

: 00:42:16

don't think I'm judging anybody.

975

: 00:42:17

But he was in seminary school and he

had his buddy, pastor Rick, came up to

976

: 00:42:20

him and said, Hey, did you know that

betting or gambling's against the Bible?

977

: 00:42:24

It's a sin.

978

: 00:42:26

And Pastor Rick goes, you know what?

979

: 00:42:27

I'll bet you a hundred dollars.

980

: 00:42:28

You can't find anywhere in the Bible.

981

: 00:42:29

Or it says, gambling's a sin.

982

: 00:42:31

And you know, I think it was a week later,

he comes up, paid him a hundred dollars.

983

: 00:42:34

He lost the bet.

984

: 00:42:34

And the thing was, is I thought for the

longest time it was, how could it not be?

985

: 00:42:38

It's gotta be a sin, but it wasn't.

986

: 00:42:40

So he did a couple of these sermons,

this series, and it got me thinking

987

: 00:42:43

like, well, what don't I know?

988

: 00:42:45

Like, I'm thinking all these

things and I'm a believer.

989

: 00:42:47

I love God, I love Jesus.

990

: 00:42:48

I want to do that.

991

: 00:42:49

So I started the same

process every morning.

992

: 00:42:51

I'd read, you know, three

chapters of the Bible.

993

: 00:42:53

And if you do that, it's a

little over a year long process.

994

: 00:42:55

You read the Bible from cover to cover.

995

: 00:42:56

Never done that before.

996

: 00:42:57

I, I should have, but I didn't.

997

: 00:42:59

but I was doing that along with reading

all this, you know, finance material,

998

: 00:43:03

and all of a sudden they came together.

999

: 00:43:05

It says the exact same thing.

: 1000

00:43:07,636 --> 00:43:10,306

Now, if you're listening right now and you

don't believe in God or you don't believe

: 1001

00:43:10,306 --> 00:43:11,556

in the Bible, hey, I still love you.

: 1002

00:43:11,556 --> 00:43:12,276

I still wanna help you.

: 1003

00:43:12,276 --> 00:43:13,056

I care about you.

: 1004

00:43:13,356 --> 00:43:16,803

I'm telling you this, the Bible is the

greatest success book ever written.

: 1005

00:43:16,896 --> 00:43:20,706

I mean everything from Warren Buffett

to Dave Ramsey, and I mean, you can

: 1006

00:43:20,706 --> 00:43:22,626

find it and find it in the Bible.

: 1007

00:43:22,686 --> 00:43:26,556

And so, coming back to the thing that

Rich by choice is we have a choice

: 1008

00:43:26,556 --> 00:43:28,266

and to be rich, yes, with money.

: 1009

00:43:28,266 --> 00:43:31,566

But the goal is not just rich and money,

it's rich in all areas of your life.

: 1010

00:43:31,566 --> 00:43:33,906

You know, be a millionaire in

life and creating millions of

: 1011

00:43:33,906 --> 00:43:35,196

experience with the kids you love.

: 1012

00:43:35,436 --> 00:43:38,627

A billion, you know, hugs and kisses

from those precious grand babies.

: 1013

00:43:39,006 --> 00:43:40,236

That's what Rich is.

: 1014

00:43:40,236 --> 00:43:42,846

And, and yes, money is a part

of it, but it's not everything

: 1015

00:43:42,896 --> 00:43:45,266

I've seen lots of families that are.

: 1016

00:43:45,851 --> 00:43:50,081

It's a hundred million dollars more and

they'd probably give a lot of it up, or

: 1017

00:43:50,081 --> 00:43:53,201

if not all of it, up to take back a few,

few things in other areas of their life.

: 1018

00:43:53,261 --> 00:43:56,801

Now again, the flip side of it, the

other extreme is having no money and

: 1019

00:43:56,801 --> 00:43:58,331

thinking poor is being closer to God.

: 1020

00:43:58,331 --> 00:43:59,002

That's wrong too.

: 1021

00:43:59,111 --> 00:44:02,831

' cause if you follow biblical advice,

you will grow and rich, you know,

: 1022

00:44:02,831 --> 00:44:06,611

riches in all areas and you know,

rich in faith is the number one thing.

: 1023

00:44:06,791 --> 00:44:07,721

So that's what it is.

: 1024

00:44:07,721 --> 00:44:09,281

And we have a choice.

: 1025

00:44:09,281 --> 00:44:11,591

And it's aligning your money

with what's most important.

: 1026

00:44:11,591 --> 00:44:14,421

You understand who's important,

what's important, and then using

: 1027

00:44:14,421 --> 00:44:16,221

your money to to, to align with that.

: 1028

00:44:16,221 --> 00:44:18,021

That's where true happiness comes in.

: 1029

00:44:18,021 --> 00:44:20,301

So you can control the.

: 1030

00:44:21,231 --> 00:44:24,326

intentional with your time and your

money and things like that, and

: 1031

00:44:24,326 --> 00:44:25,706

building the life that you want.

: 1032

00:44:26,081 --> 00:44:28,641

and that's what I love about it

because it's a different book.

: 1033

00:44:28,641 --> 00:44:31,431

It's not just, Hey, you need X

percentage in emergency fund,

: 1034

00:44:31,581 --> 00:44:33,681

which is important, but it's not.

: 1035

00:44:33,681 --> 00:44:37,011

At the end of the day, we're all

uniquely different in a wonderful way.

: 1036

00:44:37,041 --> 00:44:38,211

Our situation's different

: 1037

00:44:38,671 --> 00:44:38,891

Tim Winders: Hmm.

: 1038

00:44:38,901 --> 00:44:38,902

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1039

00:44:38,902 --> 00:44:41,331

might be great advice for you

might not be great advice for

: 1040

00:44:41,331 --> 00:44:43,101

me or Bob Smith up the road.

: 1041

00:44:43,431 --> 00:44:46,881

So it's understanding who you are,

what you are, what your desires

: 1042

00:44:46,881 --> 00:44:49,281

and who you want to become and

the life that you want to have.

: 1043

00:44:50,391 --> 00:44:53,001

you know, what kind of experiences

do you wanna create with loved ones?

: 1044

00:44:53,421 --> 00:44:55,851

And then you learn the money

tactics and you bring 'em together.

: 1045

00:44:56,211 --> 00:44:58,611

And that's what I've learned,

that hey, that's the control.

: 1046

00:44:58,611 --> 00:45:00,111

We can start working towards that.

: 1047

00:45:00,181 --> 00:45:03,061

once you start taking those little

steps, that's where you start to feel

: 1048

00:45:03,061 --> 00:45:06,541

more joy and more happiness, which

is what we're all searching for.

: 1049

00:45:07,356 --> 00:45:11,556

Tim Winders: I love how you broke it

down that Yeah, I think you had three,

: 1050

00:45:11,706 --> 00:45:17,996

three big categories and I'm getting

to where I enjoy books that have I'll

: 1051

00:45:17,996 --> 00:45:22,496

say short sections in them, you know,

little mini sections just to kind of read

: 1052

00:45:22,496 --> 00:45:26,246

through and 'em, and I've actually been

writing some fiction and I'm trying to

: 1053

00:45:26,246 --> 00:45:29,816

have that fiction be shorter chapters.

: 1054

00:45:29,816 --> 00:45:33,716

I just think people's attention

spans are more, more like that.

: 1055

00:45:33,926 --> 00:45:36,746

You know, one of the things I know, and

this is the thing that I really like

: 1056

00:45:36,746 --> 00:45:41,516

to ask people that are in, in positions

like yours, I know that you have the

: 1057

00:45:41,516 --> 00:45:48,101

opportunity to interact with, and I'll,

I'll call it minister, coach, work with,

: 1058

00:45:48,401 --> 00:45:48,402

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1059

00:45:48,402 --> 00:45:48,821

Mm-hmm.

: 1060

00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:51,206

Tim Winders: a pretty

large number of people.

: 1061

00:45:51,866 --> 00:45:56,156

What are some of the

things that you observe?

: 1062

00:45:56,891 --> 00:46:00,611

Maybe some of the biggest

mistakes you see that people make.

: 1063

00:46:00,611 --> 00:46:02,351

I know you're not gonna

call out any names.

: 1064

00:46:02,401 --> 00:46:05,551

what are some of the biggest mistakes

you see people make, that you can

: 1065

00:46:05,551 --> 00:46:07,531

share, that we can learn from?

: 1066

00:46:07,891 --> 00:46:11,491

And then what are some success

stories that you can share that

: 1067

00:46:11,491 --> 00:46:14,011

just will encourage and uplift us?

: 1068

00:46:14,531 --> 00:46:14,532

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1069

00:46:14,532 --> 00:46:14,981

absolutely.

: 1070

00:46:14,981 --> 00:46:18,341

the mistakes, a lot of 'em,

are just not being intentional.

: 1071

00:46:18,371 --> 00:46:21,371

Like it's a life by d sign

for, it's a life by default.

: 1072

00:46:21,461 --> 00:46:23,111

I mean, and, and not making, or.

: 1073

00:46:24,026 --> 00:46:25,526

taking action is a decision.

: 1074

00:46:25,796 --> 00:46:28,826

So that's the biggest thing, is just

taking the time we live in a fast world.

: 1075

00:46:28,886 --> 00:46:30,056

I mean, life comes out as fast.

: 1076

00:46:30,056 --> 00:46:30,686

I get that.

: 1077

00:46:31,046 --> 00:46:33,866

But take the time to sit down and

really internalize who you are,

: 1078

00:46:33,866 --> 00:46:34,886

what your strength and weakness are.

: 1079

00:46:34,886 --> 00:46:36,416

What do you want, what's important to you?

: 1080

00:46:36,416 --> 00:46:37,616

What's the life that you're gonna live?

: 1081

00:46:37,836 --> 00:46:38,896

some people don't know.

: 1082

00:46:39,016 --> 00:46:39,886

Well, I have an activity.

: 1083

00:46:39,886 --> 00:46:41,386

The booth talks about your

happiness, the island.

: 1084

00:46:41,446 --> 00:46:43,546

Look back over your life and

when were you most happy?

: 1085

00:46:43,546 --> 00:46:44,116

Who were you with?

: 1086

00:46:44,116 --> 00:46:44,806

What were you doing?

: 1087

00:46:45,236 --> 00:46:49,526

but then the common ones also on top of

that are, Hey, yes, live below your means.

: 1088

00:46:49,646 --> 00:46:51,086

Can't spend more than you make.

: 1089

00:46:51,086 --> 00:46:53,966

And, you know, save, give those

things are, are definitely important.

: 1090

00:46:54,206 --> 00:46:57,716

So mistakes are, the loans I see

are very common with, you know,

: 1091

00:46:57,746 --> 00:46:59,096

what you've probably heard before.

: 1092

00:46:59,366 --> 00:47:02,816

But the fascinating thing about my

job, what I love is talking about

: 1093

00:47:02,816 --> 00:47:04,586

the characteristics of success.

: 1094

00:47:04,796 --> 00:47:09,446

So I get a behind the scenes look at a lot

of successful people, a lot of success.

: 1095

00:47:09,446 --> 00:47:14,366

And success isn't just dollars and

cents, but you start to see people that

: 1096

00:47:14,366 --> 00:47:17,756

are happy, successful, and successful

across the board in their life.

: 1097

00:47:17,786 --> 00:47:20,066

And what they define as

success, not just money, but

: 1098

00:47:20,396 --> 00:47:22,046

relationships, love, joy, security.

: 1099

00:47:22,931 --> 00:47:25,781

There's common themes in, I

call the virtues of success.

: 1100

00:47:25,871 --> 00:47:29,351

It is, whether it be integrity,

grit, perseverance, hard work,

: 1101

00:47:29,681 --> 00:47:31,461

faith, and determination.

: 1102

00:47:31,461 --> 00:47:34,011

So that's what I really enjoyed.

: 1103

00:47:34,061 --> 00:47:37,601

the first part of my career is I got to

sit down with these families and find out

: 1104

00:47:37,601 --> 00:47:39,801

what works and then what leads to a life.

: 1105

00:47:39,831 --> 00:47:42,111

'cause a lot of families that

we work with, they're in the

: 1106

00:47:42,471 --> 00:47:44,001

later stages of their life.

: 1107

00:47:44,001 --> 00:47:46,441

they've already built, wealth

and they're trying to protect

: 1108

00:47:46,441 --> 00:47:47,791

and preserve it and pass it on.

: 1109

00:47:47,791 --> 00:47:50,221

one of the greatest joys, we

have fourth generation clients.

: 1110

00:47:50,251 --> 00:47:51,151

You know what that means?

: 1111

00:47:51,271 --> 00:47:52,051

That's incredible.

: 1112

00:47:52,051 --> 00:47:53,131

I mean, that's what we all want, right?

: 1113

00:47:53,131 --> 00:47:57,091

We want to not only pass on our

money, but our virtues of success,

: 1114

00:47:57,311 --> 00:48:00,281

our faith to our kids, where they can

use it as a ripple effect to benefit,

: 1115

00:48:00,341 --> 00:48:02,081

grow their life in a wonderful way.

: 1116

00:48:02,891 --> 00:48:03,701

That's amazing.

: 1117

00:48:03,731 --> 00:48:06,941

And so I start to see these similarities.

: 1118

00:48:07,316 --> 00:48:11,216

And it, might be a little bit different

or they're used and geared towards a

: 1119

00:48:11,216 --> 00:48:14,396

different way, whether it be real estate,

oil and gas, or this or that, but all

: 1120

00:48:14,396 --> 00:48:16,196

the virtues of success are the same.

: 1121

00:48:16,316 --> 00:48:17,516

And I talk about that in the book.

: 1122

00:48:17,516 --> 00:48:18,896

They're all doing the same stuff.

: 1123

00:48:19,256 --> 00:48:23,236

It's geared towards who they are and

their, uniqueness of their lives.

: 1124

00:48:23,566 --> 00:48:26,116

But I find that so

fascinating, and I love that.

: 1125

00:48:26,566 --> 00:48:27,406

And we can all do it.

: 1126

00:48:27,406 --> 00:48:29,176

That's what you talk about,

you being sports, right?

: 1127

00:48:29,416 --> 00:48:31,936

Being in sports, if you're six

foot 8, 250 pounds and you can

: 1128

00:48:31,936 --> 00:48:33,856

run a 4, 2 40, that helps you.

: 1129

00:48:34,036 --> 00:48:34,666

But guess what?

: 1130

00:48:34,666 --> 00:48:37,786

In the business world and

money, we can all do it.

: 1131

00:48:38,086 --> 00:48:38,986

And that's exciting.

: 1132

00:48:40,146 --> 00:48:44,491

Tim Winders: What is something that's

always interesting to me about the

: 1133

00:48:44,491 --> 00:48:55,351

role that you have is what sort of

pressure do you feel overseeing,

: 1134

00:48:55,351 --> 00:48:59,996

guiding, leading, managing what,

whatever words you want to use.

: 1135

00:49:01,201 --> 00:49:05,821

This important part of people's lives.

: 1136

00:49:06,191 --> 00:49:10,511

what is it like knowing that

you've got 40, 50, a hundred,

: 1137

00:49:10,511 --> 00:49:12,661

300, or whatever number the it is

: 1138

00:49:12,961 --> 00:49:12,962

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1139

00:49:12,962 --> 00:49:13,381

Mm-hmm.

: 1140

00:49:13,721 --> 00:49:19,841

Tim Winders: they're coming to you

saying here, and we know that there

: 1141

00:49:19,841 --> 00:49:22,811

are ups and downs in the economy

and different things like that.

: 1142

00:49:22,811 --> 00:49:27,091

You talk about that some, but I mean,

do you feel any pressure at all.

: 1143

00:49:27,826 --> 00:49:27,827

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1144

00:49:27,827 --> 00:49:29,086

Yeah, that's a really good question.

: 1145

00:49:29,086 --> 00:49:31,246

And I've had a a, I definitely

have been asked that several

: 1146

00:49:31,246 --> 00:49:32,456

times And the answer's none.

: 1147

00:49:32,756 --> 00:49:33,776

I don't feel any pressure at all.

: 1148

00:49:33,776 --> 00:49:34,406

And I'll tell you why.

: 1149

00:49:34,436 --> 00:49:35,786

No, uh, really hear me honest.

: 1150

00:49:35,786 --> 00:49:36,026

It's not.

: 1151

00:49:36,056 --> 00:49:36,866

'cause I'm being arrogant.

: 1152

00:49:36,866 --> 00:49:37,586

I just hear me.

: 1153

00:49:37,916 --> 00:49:41,066

When I first started in this industry,

to be a financial advisor, to

: 1154

00:49:41,066 --> 00:49:44,396

get hired on with a good firm and

pass all your exams and tests and

: 1155

00:49:44,396 --> 00:49:48,556

then build a business, especially

when I started in my twenties, is.

: 1156

00:49:48,871 --> 00:49:49,531

Almost impossible.

: 1157

00:49:49,531 --> 00:49:50,671

Like it is tough.

: 1158

00:49:50,701 --> 00:49:51,331

It really is.

: 1159

00:49:51,361 --> 00:49:52,231

'cause I didn't come from money.

: 1160

00:49:52,231 --> 00:49:53,191

None of my family had money.

: 1161

00:49:53,191 --> 00:49:55,231

So we had to, I had to build it.

: 1162

00:49:55,531 --> 00:50:00,271

And thing is, is I had these mentors and

when you're growing a business, whether

: 1163

00:50:00,271 --> 00:50:03,533

it be in the financial or any type of

business, there's certain activities,

: 1164

00:50:03,721 --> 00:50:05,041

key activities, you have to find those.

: 1165

00:50:05,041 --> 00:50:07,651

They're drivers that if you just

focus on these and you just do 'em

: 1166

00:50:07,651 --> 00:50:09,761

over and over again, I found those.

: 1167

00:50:10,166 --> 00:50:13,016

And then what was great is when I

would leave the office at the end

: 1168

00:50:13,016 --> 00:50:15,746

of the day and at the end of every

week and the end of every month, I

: 1169

00:50:15,746 --> 00:50:19,676

had this great piece because I just

knew that if I did these things, the

: 1170

00:50:19,676 --> 00:50:20,906

results would take care of itself.

: 1171

00:50:20,906 --> 00:50:23,966

Now, there's some ebbs and flows, but

I did it, and I've learned that too in

: 1172

00:50:23,966 --> 00:50:27,996

this process that I've had great, very

blessed to have great men cores that had

: 1173

00:50:28,086 --> 00:50:31,116

great success, great education pursuit.

: 1174

00:50:31,266 --> 00:50:34,116

I enjoy it and I find out

what works, and I stick to it.

: 1175

00:50:34,266 --> 00:50:35,886

Like I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.

: 1176

00:50:35,886 --> 00:50:38,796

I'm not one of these guys that says,

Hey, let me tell you what I've learned,

: 1177

00:50:38,796 --> 00:50:40,056

and it's completely new and different.

: 1178

00:50:40,206 --> 00:50:44,346

No, what I do is what's worked

for generations upon generations.

: 1179

00:50:44,406 --> 00:50:46,926

And that brings me peace

knowing that, hey, it's proven.

: 1180

00:50:47,021 --> 00:50:49,871

and I can tell people too, if they come

to me with different ideas, I'll say,

: 1181

00:50:49,871 --> 00:50:52,661

Hey, you know, I hope that you hit it big.

: 1182

00:50:52,661 --> 00:50:55,421

Like I got this great stock tip,

Nick, from my work buddy, it's

: 1183

00:50:55,421 --> 00:50:56,681

gonna, you know, it's gonna pay out.

: 1184

00:50:57,041 --> 00:50:57,851

I'll tell 'em, Hey.

: 1185

00:50:58,706 --> 00:50:59,696

hope it does.

: 1186

00:50:59,696 --> 00:51:00,716

I really do with all my heart.

: 1187

00:51:00,716 --> 00:51:03,396

But you know, unless you're taking

financial advice from somebody that

: 1188

00:51:03,396 --> 00:51:06,066

you work with that owns their own

private yacht, private island and

: 1189

00:51:06,066 --> 00:51:08,706

private jet they take to their private

island to get on their private yacht.

: 1190

00:51:09,096 --> 00:51:11,166

You probably shouldn't

take best advice from them.

: 1191

00:51:11,616 --> 00:51:17,106

But the point is I don't feel pressure

just because now we have a proven process

: 1192

00:51:17,106 --> 00:51:20,558

that I stick with it and how we put

everybody through it and every family.

: 1193

00:51:20,641 --> 00:51:23,221

And so we work on that from

one generation to the next.

: 1194

00:51:23,558 --> 00:51:26,821

And we work a lot too on building

up the next generation, you know,

: 1195

00:51:26,821 --> 00:51:30,091

time at Yale, they talked about 85%

of the problems that people go with.

: 1196

00:51:30,091 --> 00:51:32,671

I talk about book and go down to

two things, you know, 'cause most

: 1197

00:51:32,671 --> 00:51:34,801

generation, when you talk about

inheritance, it's dried up and gone.

: 1198

00:51:35,101 --> 00:51:38,041

Now as we as parents, you know, that

what's our number one goal to lead

: 1199

00:51:38,041 --> 00:51:40,476

our kids to God and then help them

create a better life than we had.

: 1200

00:51:41,356 --> 00:51:45,346

Or we had, but no one's talking

about what can you do to do that?

: 1201

00:51:45,436 --> 00:51:49,726

And so, we just stick to these

proven principles and I mean, it's

: 1202

00:51:49,966 --> 00:51:53,266

almost like an old school football

coach that just stuck in their way.

: 1203

00:51:53,326 --> 00:51:56,666

We just do it, do it over

and over again, and it works.

: 1204

00:51:56,666 --> 00:51:58,696

And so, it makes my job easy.

: 1205

00:51:59,326 --> 00:52:01,276

I know that, I know that's not the

answer you probably wanted, but

: 1206

00:52:01,306 --> 00:52:02,731

Tim Winders: It's, no,

it's, it's interesting.

: 1207

00:52:02,731 --> 00:52:08,341

I've got over, over to my left here, I've

got a, uh, picture of Vince Lombardi,

: 1208

00:52:08,896 --> 00:52:08,897

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1209

00:52:08,897 --> 00:52:08,986

Oh,

: 1210

00:52:09,286 --> 00:52:11,221

Tim Winders: what, what

it takes to be number one.

: 1211

00:52:11,521 --> 00:52:15,271

There's a great book and I, I, I haven't

thought of this book in a long time,

: 1212

00:52:15,271 --> 00:52:17,881

but when you were saying that I was

thinking about this book when Pride Still

: 1213

00:52:17,881 --> 00:52:21,931

Matters, it was more, it was a biography

of Vince Lombardi great book by the way.

: 1214

00:52:21,931 --> 00:52:27,001

And they tell the story of Vince starting

and these are professional ball players

: 1215

00:52:27,001 --> 00:52:29,761

too, holding up a football and say, this

: 1216

00:52:30,141 --> 00:52:30,142

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1217

00:52:30,142 --> 00:52:30,561

Mm-hmm.

: 1218

00:52:30,661 --> 00:52:34,801

Tim Winders: a football to people

that have been playing for some time.

: 1219

00:52:34,851 --> 00:52:37,761

and some of these principles

are just try and true.

: 1220

00:52:37,761 --> 00:52:39,351

I think sometimes we try to get cute.

: 1221

00:52:39,381 --> 00:52:43,341

We try to get, you know,

fancy and listen, I.

: 1222

00:52:44,256 --> 00:52:44,856

Love me.

: 1223

00:52:44,856 --> 00:52:48,246

I've got quite a portfolio, Bitcoin

and things like that, but then

: 1224

00:52:48,246 --> 00:52:51,636

there's just some basic stuff too.

: 1225

00:52:52,266 --> 00:52:54,366

What we got just a couple minutes here.

: 1226

00:52:54,666 --> 00:52:54,667

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1227

00:52:54,667 --> 00:52:55,146

Sure.

: 1228

00:52:55,446 --> 00:52:59,736

Tim Winders: me who should and,

and the answer's not everyone,

: 1229

00:52:59,736 --> 00:53:00,741

I guess it could be, but who?

: 1230

00:53:01,086 --> 00:53:03,786

Who should go out and get this book?

: 1231

00:53:03,786 --> 00:53:04,626

Rich By Choice?

: 1232

00:53:04,626 --> 00:53:05,376

Who is it for?

: 1233

00:53:05,376 --> 00:53:06,276

Who'd you write it for?

: 1234

00:53:06,816 --> 00:53:06,817

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1235

00:53:06,817 --> 00:53:07,896

yeah, absolutely.

: 1236

00:53:07,901 --> 00:53:10,121

and the answer, is everyone,

and I'll tell you why.

: 1237

00:53:10,151 --> 00:53:11,381

'cause I receive a lot of coaching.

: 1238

00:53:11,381 --> 00:53:12,521

I receive a lot of coaching.

: 1239

00:53:12,521 --> 00:53:13,931

And, and They're like, Hey,

you gotta find a niche.

: 1240

00:53:13,931 --> 00:53:17,321

and you gotta get to a point where you

only work with certain types of families.

: 1241

00:53:17,361 --> 00:53:19,731

as I've gotten older, I

understand that, hey, there's

: 1242

00:53:19,761 --> 00:53:21,111

8 billion people in this world.

: 1243

00:53:21,351 --> 00:53:22,341

I can't help them all.

: 1244

00:53:22,401 --> 00:53:24,651

They all can't become clients

of Michael's family Financial.

: 1245

00:53:24,651 --> 00:53:25,371

I get that.

: 1246

00:53:25,821 --> 00:53:28,831

And, you know, we work with, here,

we work, with a select group of

: 1247

00:53:28,831 --> 00:53:31,351

families, usually at their closer

retirement or extra strategy from

: 1248

00:53:31,351 --> 00:53:34,711

selling a business that have, you

know, wealth already built up.

: 1249

00:53:35,011 --> 00:53:37,351

And so I wanted it to, to, to what?

: 1250

00:53:37,351 --> 00:53:41,481

To all people to show them one

thing, of what money you can build

: 1251

00:53:41,481 --> 00:53:43,011

wealth, but it's not everything.

: 1252

00:53:43,111 --> 00:53:46,088

my goal was to show people that, the Bible

is the greatest money book ever written.

: 1253

00:53:46,088 --> 00:53:49,238

And I, and I show all the different

fundamentals that the Bible talks about.

: 1254

00:53:49,598 --> 00:53:53,888

But then the goal for them to go back

and go, okay, Bible helped me with money.

: 1255

00:53:54,698 --> 00:53:55,778

else can it help me with?

: 1256

00:53:55,898 --> 00:53:56,918

What else am I missing?

: 1257

00:53:56,918 --> 00:53:58,748

And so that was a really

important concept.

: 1258

00:53:58,748 --> 00:54:00,428

And so, I mean, that,

that's for everybody.

: 1259

00:54:00,428 --> 00:54:01,148

It really is.

: 1260

00:54:01,538 --> 00:54:04,718

Um, but it's also too to say, Hey,

how do you build a life of purpose?

: 1261

00:54:04,988 --> 00:54:06,728

How do you be intentional

of building a life?

: 1262

00:54:06,728 --> 00:54:08,828

'cause we're all searching, we

all know what we're looking for.

: 1263

00:54:08,828 --> 00:54:09,398

We know what we want.

: 1264

00:54:09,398 --> 00:54:10,508

We know what's gonna make us happy.

: 1265

00:54:10,868 --> 00:54:11,828

How do we go out and get it?

: 1266

00:54:11,828 --> 00:54:13,598

'cause paralysis by analysis is real.

: 1267

00:54:13,898 --> 00:54:17,078

I mean, everyone, there's a, a overflow

of information out there, what works.

: 1268

00:54:17,801 --> 00:54:19,751

and, and so that's really

what it comes down to.

: 1269

00:54:19,801 --> 00:54:20,701

Writing this book.

: 1270

00:54:20,941 --> 00:54:23,521

Yes, it's best sellers and things

like that, which is wonderful.

: 1271

00:54:23,521 --> 00:54:24,061

That's fun.

: 1272

00:54:24,451 --> 00:54:26,581

But what I really love

is these success stories.

: 1273

00:54:26,711 --> 00:54:29,261

we've had not only the reviews, but

people come and tell me, whether

: 1274

00:54:29,261 --> 00:54:32,236

it be a single mom of kiddos,

using the budget strategy to create

: 1275

00:54:32,236 --> 00:54:33,496

some room to breathe every month.

: 1276

00:54:33,616 --> 00:54:34,606

That's a blessing for her.

: 1277

00:54:34,906 --> 00:54:37,576

All the way to the other end of

the expression of people who, you

: 1278

00:54:37,576 --> 00:54:40,126

know what, they got to a point

where they sold their business for,

: 1279

00:54:40,126 --> 00:54:42,646

$10 million and I thought that was

gonna be the pinnacle of their life.

: 1280

00:54:42,646 --> 00:54:45,826

Like everything, oh, it's amazing

to only have that moment not

: 1281

00:54:45,826 --> 00:54:46,936

be as great as they thought.

: 1282

00:54:47,356 --> 00:54:51,331

And to have unfulfillment, I mean,

so to help them with purpose.

: 1283

00:54:51,361 --> 00:54:54,601

And then everything in between a people,

Hey, am I ready to go to retirement?

: 1284

00:54:54,601 --> 00:54:55,201

Am I prepared?

: 1285

00:54:55,201 --> 00:54:56,041

Am I gonna be okay?

: 1286

00:54:56,371 --> 00:54:58,531

So that's really what it is.

: 1287

00:54:58,531 --> 00:55:01,411

and it's not just all about

money, it's about your life too.

: 1288

00:55:02,701 --> 00:55:02,941

Tim Winders: Yeah.

: 1289

00:55:02,941 --> 00:55:06,151

And I, you, you tie a lot of

that in and I appreciate that.

: 1290

00:55:06,151 --> 00:55:07,831

I, I appreciate that.

: 1291

00:55:07,831 --> 00:55:11,941

It, it didn't have, and at times I

actually love getting into a lot of

: 1292

00:55:11,941 --> 00:55:15,421

technical things, being an engineer

with my background and all that.

: 1293

00:55:15,421 --> 00:55:22,416

But I think it was written at a very,

like I said, digestible, uh, way, you

: 1294

00:55:22,416 --> 00:55:26,616

know, for, for, I don't wanna say the

average person, that's not the right

: 1295

00:55:26,616 --> 00:55:32,836

way of saying it, but you know, for, for

the person that might, be intimidated by

: 1296

00:55:32,836 --> 00:55:35,266

financial conversation, it's not that way.

: 1297

00:55:35,376 --> 00:55:38,076

tell people where they can find

you, where they could get the book.

: 1298

00:55:38,146 --> 00:55:40,696

We'll include things in the

notes, but, you know, websites or

: 1299

00:55:40,696 --> 00:55:42,196

wherever they can go to find you.

: 1300

00:55:42,536 --> 00:55:44,801

and then we'll wrap up here 'cause

it's been a great conversation.

: 1301

00:55:45,101 --> 00:55:45,102

Dr. Nicholas Michels:

: 1302

00:55:45,102 --> 00:55:46,721

No, Tim, I really appreciate this.

: 1303

00:55:46,721 --> 00:55:47,321

Yeah, absolutely.

: 1304

00:55:47,321 --> 00:55:50,281

And I, and I want this, I've got

a couple free resources for you,

: 1305

00:55:50,341 --> 00:55:52,981

you know, 'cause what we're talking

about it, it will help your life.

: 1306

00:55:52,981 --> 00:55:55,651

It'll turn worries and concerns

into confidence and peace.

: 1307

00:55:56,011 --> 00:56:00,421

You know, if you go to the website,

which is rich by choice book.com,

: 1308

00:56:01,141 --> 00:56:02,206

www.richbychoicebook.com,

: 1309

00:56:02,416 --> 00:56:04,771

right there in the

front, it says Free gift.

: 1310

00:56:05,176 --> 00:56:05,596

Click on.

: 1311

00:56:05,596 --> 00:56:06,766

It'll be a little green box.

: 1312

00:56:07,096 --> 00:56:08,266

Put in your email address.

: 1313

00:56:08,486 --> 00:56:10,106

You'll be able to click

what's called compounding.

: 1314

00:56:10,106 --> 00:56:10,856

It's so simple.

: 1315

00:56:10,856 --> 00:56:13,556

There's a step one and two, and

I'm gonna send you a free chapter.

: 1316

00:56:13,556 --> 00:56:15,056

It's about compounding

what I love about it.

: 1317

00:56:15,056 --> 00:56:18,806

Talk about being intentional, and what it

does is whatever area you're struggling

: 1318

00:56:18,806 --> 00:56:21,836

with right now, whether it be your

marriage and relationships, kiddos, yes.

: 1319

00:56:21,836 --> 00:56:23,666

Money, business, faith.

: 1320

00:56:24,686 --> 00:56:28,196

Because every aspect in our life is

compounding either for good or for bad.

: 1321

00:56:28,196 --> 00:56:31,196

And it teaches you how to take control

of that and really be intentional with

: 1322

00:56:31,196 --> 00:56:32,636

your time and effort and resources.

: 1323

00:56:32,636 --> 00:56:34,376

Like being stewardship with, with God.

: 1324

00:56:34,376 --> 00:56:36,026

It's not just money, it's everything.

: 1325

00:56:36,326 --> 00:56:39,866

And so take this as this chapter is

really important to me and it really

: 1326

00:56:39,866 --> 00:56:41,546

helped me see things in a different way.

: 1327

00:56:41,546 --> 00:56:44,756

and so that's where all of our stuff

is that Rich by Choice book.com.

: 1328

00:56:45,086 --> 00:56:47,186

And then from there there's

three other options you can

: 1329

00:56:47,186 --> 00:56:47,996

take advantage of if you want.

: 1330

00:56:47,996 --> 00:56:48,266

Yes.

: 1331

00:56:48,266 --> 00:56:50,366

If you, if you, if you're

looking for help and, and you

: 1332

00:56:50,366 --> 00:56:51,386

wanna work with us, wonderful.

: 1333

00:56:51,386 --> 00:56:53,876

But also too, if you wanna learn

to do it yourself, wonderful.

: 1334

00:56:53,876 --> 00:56:55,166

We have options for that on there too.

: 1335

00:56:55,166 --> 00:56:57,866

So you can take it whatever's best

for you in your life right now.

: 1336

00:56:57,896 --> 00:56:58,646

'cause that's our goal.

: 1337

00:56:58,646 --> 00:56:59,426

It's just to help.

: 1338

00:56:59,766 --> 00:57:04,116

but it, like I said, my whole goal for

doing podcasts is if you can learn one

: 1339

00:57:04,116 --> 00:57:08,916

thing that excites you, gives you hope,

That's, that's, that's all we wanna do.

: 1340

00:57:09,831 --> 00:57:11,061

Tim Winders: Well, I've

enjoyed the conversation.

: 1341

00:57:11,061 --> 00:57:13,101

I'm actually scrolling through

here, looking at the website.

: 1342

00:57:13,101 --> 00:57:13,281

Now.

: 1343

00:57:13,281 --> 00:57:15,321

There's a lot of stuff there.

: 1344

00:57:15,321 --> 00:57:19,951

I think there was a link that went to your

family corporation from the Wi by Choice.

: 1345

00:57:19,951 --> 00:57:21,231

So anyway, those are tied together.

: 1346

00:57:21,231 --> 00:57:23,301

We'll include the links down below.

: 1347

00:57:23,781 --> 00:57:24,921

I enjoy the conversation.

: 1348

00:57:24,921 --> 00:57:26,721

I love talking faith.

: 1349

00:57:26,721 --> 00:57:28,101

I love talking about money.

: 1350

00:57:28,101 --> 00:57:33,201

I love talking with people that are

helping people through this process.

: 1351

00:57:33,201 --> 00:57:35,391

So the book is Rich by Choice.

: 1352

00:57:35,391 --> 00:57:39,591

Take back Control, master your Money,

and design the life of your Dreams.

: 1353

00:57:39,591 --> 00:57:41,361

There's the copy right there.

: 1354

00:57:41,751 --> 00:57:44,601

So, you can see that we'll

include the links down below.

: 1355

00:57:45,031 --> 00:57:46,981

it's Nick, but we'll go formal here.

: 1356

00:57:46,981 --> 00:57:47,401

Dr.

: 1357

00:57:47,401 --> 00:57:47,971

Nicholas e.

: 1358

00:57:48,886 --> 00:57:51,536

Michael, so, what a

great conversation, man.

: 1359

00:57:51,536 --> 00:57:52,496

I appreciate it.

: 1360

00:57:52,946 --> 00:57:56,576

And, we didn't get, even get into

talking about, you know, the state of

: 1361

00:57:56,576 --> 00:57:58,856

Texas and all that's going on there.

: 1362

00:57:58,856 --> 00:58:02,756

And I'm over in Georgia, all this kind of

fun stuff, but what a great conversation.

: 1363

00:58:02,756 --> 00:58:04,466

I think this will get

things started for you.

: 1364

00:58:04,826 --> 00:58:08,186

Go get the book, go check out some

of these resources and letting

: 1365

00:58:08,186 --> 00:58:09,476

it kinda lead and guide you.

: 1366

00:58:09,476 --> 00:58:13,736

I could tell he's got a big heart

that he just wants to help lead

: 1367

00:58:13,736 --> 00:58:15,866

and guide people to a better place.

: 1368

00:58:16,226 --> 00:58:19,676

And that is what we're

looking for here at Seek.

: 1369

00:58:20,156 --> 00:58:23,306

Go create those three words,

kind of mean, all of that.

: 1370

00:58:23,666 --> 00:58:28,856

We have new episodes every Monday on

YouTube and all the podcast platforms.

: 1371

00:58:28,856 --> 00:58:32,606

Keep checking us out, keep sharing

it and just keep coming back.

: 1372

00:58:32,606 --> 00:58:34,526

We'll see you next week

on Seek, go Create.