Breaking Free from Wall Street: Joey Muré on Faith, Stewardship, and True Financial Freedom

Speaker: 00:00:00

there's not a good example of somebody that just saves money in a

Speaker: 00:00:03

savings vehicle that gets wealthy.

Speaker: 00:00:06

At best, they're going to keep up with inflation at worst,

Speaker: 00:00:12

like a checking account or, you know, even a savings account.

Speaker: 00:00:15

They're losing ground as it relates to inflation.

Speaker: 00:00:18

So it's like termites in your money.

Speaker: 00:00:21

It's not actually going to help you get to wealth.

Speaker: 00:00:25

True wealth is through cash flow.

Speaker: 00:00:27

And so I always have to take whatever the savings dollars I have and put it to work.

Speaker: 00:00:44

What would your life look like if you stopped trusting Wall Street and started

Speaker: 00:00:48

building wealth on your own terms?

Speaker: 00:00:51

On today's episode of Seek Go Create the leadership journey.

Speaker: 00:00:53

We're joined by Joey Muray, founder and partner at Wealth Without Wall Street.

Speaker: 00:00:58

Joey is a faith-driven entrepreneur with a mission to help people gain financial

Speaker: 00:01:02

freedom while living with purpose.

Speaker: 00:01:05

With a background in mortgages and a passion for relational

Speaker: 00:01:08

leadership, Joey brings a powerful blend of impact, integrity, and

Speaker: 00:01:12

generosity to everything he does.

Speaker: 00:01:14

Get ready for a conversation that challenges the status quo and offers

Speaker: 00:01:18

a fresh perspective on leading, giving, and building lasting legacy.

Speaker: 00:01:25

Joey, welcome to Seat.

Speaker: 00:01:26

Go create.

Speaker: 00:01:27

Oh, Tim, so glad to be here with you.

Speaker: 00:01:29

This is gonna be an awesome time.

Speaker: 00:01:31

that you're here too.

Speaker: 00:01:32

I'm always, excited to talk to people that are from the south because

Speaker: 00:01:38

we shouldn't need a translator.

Speaker: 00:01:39

But you don't have an accent.

Speaker: 00:01:40

You're not from there, are you?

Speaker: 00:01:42

I am from the south originally, I was actually born in the South, but my

Speaker: 00:01:45

parents were both from Buffalo, New York.

Speaker: 00:01:48

So I think there's just this kind of tension always in my, my accent.

Speaker: 00:01:53

So that's, that's where that comes from.

Speaker: 00:01:55

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:01:56

you need a nickname like Bubba or something, don't you?

Speaker: 00:01:59

Well, it's Italian, so I'm the Italian stallion is my nickname on the podcast.

Speaker: 00:02:03

there you go.

Speaker: 00:02:04

No Bubba here.

Speaker: 00:02:05

Oh, very good.

Speaker: 00:02:06

So, first big question then we're gonna dive in.

Speaker: 00:02:08

I like to go into the deep end pretty quick, but any.

Speaker: 00:02:12

Time I'm interacting with people from Alabama.

Speaker: 00:02:15

I've got to ask the question, Alabama or Auburn, do you have

Speaker: 00:02:19

a flag for one of those or.

Speaker: 00:02:21

When I moved here in high school, I had so many people put me on the spot

Speaker: 00:02:28

with this you for Alabama Auburn Boy.

Speaker: 00:02:31

And I just, I'm, I'm the kind, like, if you push me too hard, I'm just gonna

Speaker: 00:02:35

say neither one, I'm not gonna go free either one of 'em 'cause that's crazy.

Speaker: 00:02:39

But this place is the college football hub of the world.

Speaker: 00:02:45

I remember years ago I was in a client's office and he was showing

Speaker: 00:02:49

me, he worked for one of the big cable companies and they were just getting.

Speaker: 00:02:54

Like the college football channel or whatever it was, it was some

Speaker: 00:02:57

big deal around college football.

Speaker: 00:03:00

And he said, man, I'm just really stressed out right now.

Speaker: 00:03:03

I mean, we just got the word that we got, we are, we're

Speaker: 00:03:05

getting rights to this channel.

Speaker: 00:03:07

And I was like, okay, well why is that such a big deal?

Speaker: 00:03:10

he showed me a heat map of the nation and Birmingham, Alabama.

Speaker: 00:03:16

Was this just.

Speaker: 00:03:17

Hot red center compared to all the other places in the country.

Speaker: 00:03:21

And I thought, oh, okay.

Speaker: 00:03:23

I get it.

Speaker: 00:03:23

That's why people are so crazy here.

Speaker: 00:03:25

So anyway,

Speaker: 00:03:26

it is pretty, amazing.

Speaker: 00:03:27

We, that's not the purpose of our talk here though.

Speaker: 00:03:30

That's just other stuff.

Speaker: 00:03:32

So, Joey, I'm curious if,

Speaker: 00:03:34

if

Speaker: 00:03:35

were to ask you, which question would you prefer, this is kinda

Speaker: 00:03:39

like my get started question.

Speaker: 00:03:41

Would you prefer to ask the question?

Speaker: 00:03:42

What, answer the question, what do you do?

Speaker: 00:03:45

Or who are you, which would you prefer?

Speaker: 00:03:48

And go ahead and start answering

Speaker: 00:03:51

You know, what I would say, what do I do is easier because it's

Speaker: 00:03:56

simpler to, you know, just in general conversation, what we do.

Speaker: 00:04:01

And what I do is, and I'm driven.

Speaker: 00:04:06

To impact the world.

Speaker: 00:04:07

And I guess this is kind of both, right?

Speaker: 00:04:09

It's who am I and what we do.

Speaker: 00:04:11

I'm driven to impact the world so much that when I was in the mortgage

Speaker: 00:04:15

business, for 11 years, I got compelled by this concept that we now

Speaker: 00:04:22

teach at Wealth Without Wall Street.

Speaker: 00:04:24

So much so that I was at a conference and I was just like, wow, why do

Speaker: 00:04:30

more people not understand this idea of taking and stewarding wealth

Speaker: 00:04:37

as, an owner, not as somebody who abdicates that to somebody else?

Speaker: 00:04:44

And it was almost, it was one of these rare occasions.

Speaker: 00:04:47

I'll go ahead and say that I felt like God put his thumb in my back

Speaker: 00:04:51

and said, why don't you do it?

Speaker: 00:04:54

And I thought, oh, well, because my wife is pregnant with our fourth

Speaker: 00:04:59

daughter, we have five, but at the time was our fourth daughter.

Speaker: 00:05:04

She doesn't have a job.

Speaker: 00:05:05

I'm the sole provider.

Speaker: 00:05:07

I'm making over $300,000 a year.

Speaker: 00:05:09

I'm comfortable in the mortgage business.

Speaker: 00:05:11

Those are the reasons why I wouldn't risk it all and go, you

Speaker: 00:05:14

know, try to teach people this.

Speaker: 00:05:16

But man, it was so compelling that I said, people need to know this system.

Speaker: 00:05:21

They need to know what the importance is of not abdicating the responsibility for

Speaker: 00:05:27

your finances that God's entrusted you.

Speaker: 00:05:30

And then how to then turn that into financial freedom.

Speaker: 00:05:33

So that's what we do.

Speaker: 00:05:35

We're about freedom and it starts with spiritual freedom, but then

Speaker: 00:05:39

it leads to financial freedom and all that comes along with that.

Speaker: 00:05:43

that, that's good.

Speaker: 00:05:44

I mean, anytime people make statements like.

Speaker: 00:05:49

I want to impact the world.

Speaker: 00:05:52

I have these two things that go through my head, Joey, so I'm gonna share

Speaker: 00:05:56

'em and I'm gonna let you respond.

Speaker: 00:05:58

First thing is usually a Wow, that's pretty awesome.

Speaker: 00:06:04

I want to know more, which is part of my question.

Speaker: 00:06:07

And then the second thing that goes through my head is impact the world.

Speaker: 00:06:12

You're right.

Speaker: 00:06:12

Come on.

Speaker: 00:06:14

You know, kind of this, really that's what it is, because I think I've

Speaker: 00:06:17

had similar things in, in my head.

Speaker: 00:06:20

Has that kind of always been on your mind?

Speaker: 00:06:22

I mean, like going back to, you know, kid on the playground or

Speaker: 00:06:26

when did that crystallize for you?

Speaker: 00:06:30

You know, I would say in college I was very much impacted by a

Speaker: 00:06:35

ministry called Campus Outreach.

Speaker: 00:06:37

And I'm not certain if everybody's familiar with 'em.

Speaker: 00:06:40

They're mostly.

Speaker: 00:06:42

in the southeast, on college campuses and mostly smaller

Speaker: 00:06:45

campuses, although they're definitely growing into bigger schools now.

Speaker: 00:06:49

But there was the concept of discipleship that was taught to me

Speaker: 00:06:54

that man, Jesus impacted the world by literally spending time with 12 people.

Speaker: 00:07:02

And those 12 people he didn't even spend all of his time with.

Speaker: 00:07:05

He really focused on three, but just from those relationships in three years

Speaker: 00:07:10

of ministry, there's a reason that you and I are talking about him today, and

Speaker: 00:07:15

we're not in Jerusalem, like you're in Arizona and you're all over the country,

Speaker: 00:07:20

but I'm in Alabama and I am impacted by what happened over 2000 years ago with

Speaker: 00:07:28

Jesus affecting three people or 12 people.

Speaker: 00:07:30

How can I impact the world?

Speaker: 00:07:31

Well, I can do that here.

Speaker: 00:07:33

Wherever I'm at, I can spend time with people and pour into their lives that

Speaker: 00:07:38

then they can continue to do that.

Speaker: 00:07:40

I now get the opportunity through this media, right, through a podcast, there are

Speaker: 00:07:47

people, there are thousands of people that listen to our show all over the world.

Speaker: 00:07:51

And so for me, I didn't necessarily know how, but I knew that that was

Speaker: 00:07:56

always a drive since I got really impacted with that idea of discipleship.

Speaker: 00:08:00

you know, there's some words I'm gonna bring three concepts together

Speaker: 00:08:05

and then ask you some questions.

Speaker: 00:08:08

I believe that people of faith

Speaker: 00:08:10

I.

Speaker: 00:08:11

have at times different thoughts about money or wealth and, and

Speaker: 00:08:19

sometimes they're not good.

Speaker: 00:08:21

And correct and biblical and the right thoughts.

Speaker: 00:08:25

So we, we will kind of have that as a foundation.

Speaker: 00:08:28

But then I love the word love that your word brought up the word

Speaker: 00:08:31

discipleship because I think that that's what we're really lacking a

Speaker: 00:08:37

great deal of in the kingdom of God.

Speaker: 00:08:39

I think it's really something that we have a lot of people maybe

Speaker: 00:08:42

saying things, but not people may spending time and discipling and

Speaker: 00:08:47

walking people through things.

Speaker: 00:08:49

So, three things.

Speaker: 00:08:50

People of faith, the challenges or issues that they have with money,

Speaker: 00:08:54

and then kind holding someone's hand and discipling and working with them.

Speaker: 00:08:59

I believe that you guys are working on all three of those and, and I think you've

Speaker: 00:09:04

got a community, you've got podcast.

Speaker: 00:09:07

I think podcast is a good portion of it, but to me, community coaching

Speaker: 00:09:10

and different things like that is like one next level thing.

Speaker: 00:09:14

So I, I guess I'm just kind of throwing three words at you.

Speaker: 00:09:18

Faith.

Speaker: 00:09:19

Money or wealth and discipleship, and I'm, discipleship.

Speaker: 00:09:22

I'm just gonna let you

Speaker: 00:09:23

respond.

Speaker: 00:09:24

Sure.

Speaker: 00:09:25

Well, I'll just tell you, I'll kind of sum it up in to those three.

Speaker: 00:09:29

So one, faith, we don't have any sort of a statement on our website that says you

Speaker: 00:09:35

have to be a Christian to engage with us or that we are going to share our

Speaker: 00:09:40

faith with you when you engage with us.

Speaker: 00:09:43

But I can tell you there's been numerous opportunities.

Speaker: 00:09:48

For people to engage with us that maybe would've never stepped foot in

Speaker: 00:09:52

a church, that now they're thinking differently and asking questions.

Speaker: 00:09:58

And we've even seen some people come to faith.

Speaker: 00:09:59

One of the guys that works for me right now became a Christian because he brought

Speaker: 00:10:04

up a very simple, question one time.

Speaker: 00:10:07

He was sharing his story and telling us about what happened.

Speaker: 00:10:10

He said, well, I know you and Russ are religious.

Speaker: 00:10:13

And I was like, no, we're not.

Speaker: 00:10:15

We're not religious at all.

Speaker: 00:10:17

And he said, what, what are you talking about?

Speaker: 00:10:19

I said, we have a relationship with Christ, but if you think religion is

Speaker: 00:10:24

gonna save anybody, you're sadly mistaken.

Speaker: 00:10:27

In fact, I learned these things.

Speaker: 00:10:29

I'd love to share 'em with you at some point.

Speaker: 00:10:31

And if you wanna do that.

Speaker: 00:10:32

So we just engaged in a Bible study He became a Christian through that process.

Speaker: 00:10:36

And so, yes, faith is super important.

Speaker: 00:10:39

It's not something that we require of anybody to engage with us,

Speaker: 00:10:43

but it's super important and it's the foundation for how we think.

Speaker: 00:10:47

And I would say that that leads into, stewardship, which is how the church, how

Speaker: 00:10:53

the world thinks about money, what drives everything in our mind is stewardship.

Speaker: 00:11:00

That you are not the owner of anything, but that God is the owner and he entrusts

Speaker: 00:11:07

to you All of life's resources that you've been given, including your time,

Speaker: 00:11:13

including your body, including your money, including your relationships,

Speaker: 00:11:17

your experiences, all these things are things God's entrusted to you.

Speaker: 00:11:21

And we have not only a requirement, but a privilege.

Speaker: 00:11:26

To be able to steward those things in a way that reflects God's glory.

Speaker: 00:11:32

And the biggest challenge we hear from people of faith, people in the

Speaker: 00:11:38

church, outside of the church, is that they have a really bad idea

Speaker: 00:11:42

that money is the root of all evil.

Speaker: 00:11:46

Money has all these negative connotations.

Speaker: 00:11:48

Like, oh, well, even, you know, the rich are, it's impossible for a rich man to

Speaker: 00:11:53

enter the, the, the kingdom of heaven like a camel going through the eye of a needle.

Speaker: 00:11:58

There's so much context missing from those conversations, but it has

Speaker: 00:12:03

embedded in their minds a scarcity and almost like a fear, for money.

Speaker: 00:12:10

And so I find that the church is one of the, like most, Atrophied or like

Speaker: 00:12:18

really struggling to become abundant.

Speaker: 00:12:22

And, and you know, it's not just about having more money that is abundant,

Speaker: 00:12:27

it's about seeing money as a tool to be abundant with others within your family,

Speaker: 00:12:33

within your community, within your church.

Speaker: 00:12:36

And I can dive into more concepts around that if you want, but

Speaker: 00:12:40

that to me is like a foundation.

Speaker: 00:12:43

And then the last thing on the discipleship aspect, I would say what

Speaker: 00:12:48

drives me in what we do is to say, man, there are things that we've learned

Speaker: 00:12:53

about money and passive income and financial freedom that I want to model.

Speaker: 00:13:00

So there's a reason why Russ and I share our personal passive

Speaker: 00:13:03

income report every month.

Speaker: 00:13:05

It's not because we're bragging, it's because we want to model what's possible.

Speaker: 00:13:10

We show people our actual system that we use to perpetuate passive income.

Speaker: 00:13:18

Because it's a model.

Speaker: 00:13:19

It's just like Jesus modeled to the disciples how to interact with people,

Speaker: 00:13:24

how to, share about the kingdom of God, how to engage with the lost.

Speaker: 00:13:29

All those things are models.

Speaker: 00:13:31

Well, we do that within our business.

Speaker: 00:13:34

We help people, we come alongside in a discipleship type process where we

Speaker: 00:13:39

coach people, they set the system up, and then they graduate into, how do I

Speaker: 00:13:44

get my first $500 of passive income?

Speaker: 00:13:47

Well, there's a 12 week process that they are engaged with.

Speaker: 00:13:51

They have to apply and qualify and all that, but they get in and they then

Speaker: 00:13:55

have a group that also has an individual coach that's helping them to get there.

Speaker: 00:14:01

So it's, it's not perfect and I don't, I never wanna make a claim that.

Speaker: 00:14:06

It could be similar to Jesus's process, but it's based off of the principles

Speaker: 00:14:12

of what we've seen in that example.

Speaker: 00:14:15

Does that make sense?

Speaker: 00:14:17

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:14:17

Yeah, that, that's really good.

Speaker: 00:14:19

And we may circle back, I do wanna look at some practical things in just a few

Speaker: 00:14:23

minutes here, but there's something that I, this is just a question that

Speaker: 00:14:27

I always have when I'm speaking of

Speaker: 00:14:29

speaking

Speaker: 00:14:30

someone with, that's in these industries I think, Joe, I'd like

Speaker: 00:14:34

to frame it in a couple of ways.

Speaker: 00:14:35

Number one, I'm curious about your faith journey growing up.

Speaker: 00:14:39

You mentioned in college, you were around, the organization there,

Speaker: 00:14:43

but I also would like to know your relationship with money growing up.

Speaker: 00:14:48

I think you mentioned you were in the mortgage industry and maybe

Speaker: 00:14:51

we can chat about that briefly, but talk about your journey.

Speaker: 00:14:55

I mean, did you just kind of come out of the womb saying, yeah, I've got

Speaker: 00:14:58

a healthy relationship with money.

Speaker: 00:15:00

I don't, I don't think about it too much, but also don't ignore it, or was

Speaker: 00:15:03

there a journey involved with that?

Speaker: 00:15:05

What can you share

Speaker: 00:15:06

I'll say the reason why I'm so, kind of acutely aware of how the church has

Speaker: 00:15:12

just brutalized this whole concept is because I was a, I don't wanna say a

Speaker: 00:15:18

victim, but I was a result of that.

Speaker: 00:15:21

And it was, you know, I remember conversations with my parents.

Speaker: 00:15:26

we grew up going to the Salvation Army Church.

Speaker: 00:15:28

My parents actually worked for the Salvation Army for 40 years.

Speaker: 00:15:33

They just recently retired.

Speaker: 00:15:35

They never had money, and they always spoke of it in a negative connotation.

Speaker: 00:15:41

Like those with money were not necessarily serious about their faith.

Speaker: 00:15:46

those with money were almost like sellouts in a sense because

Speaker: 00:15:51

oh, well they're the rich people and this and that and the other.

Speaker: 00:15:54

And I never, and so I kind of adopted those same things.

Speaker: 00:15:58

Money wasn't something I saw.

Speaker: 00:16:00

It wasn't something that I understood.

Speaker: 00:16:03

It wasn't something that I really ultimately wanted.

Speaker: 00:16:07

I equated somebody who's sold out for Jesus is going into full-time ministry.

Speaker: 00:16:13

Somebody who's not, oh well they're in the business world and you know, whatever.

Speaker: 00:16:17

That kind of thing had a really, really bad idea of that.

Speaker: 00:16:22

And then in college I was, faced with some businessmen that I met that were giving

Speaker: 00:16:31

and generous and proactive and very like, responsible and desiring to impact others

Speaker: 00:16:42

at a point that I'd never experienced.

Speaker: 00:16:45

And they had the means to do things that were required to send people.

Speaker: 00:16:51

I started to see God's economy.

Speaker: 00:16:54

As not only people who are willing to go, but people who are called

Speaker: 00:16:59

to send and that God's economy doesn't work without the other one.

Speaker: 00:17:04

Like both of them are required for the kingdom to go forth.

Speaker: 00:17:08

And so, I started to pursue going into full-time ministry

Speaker: 00:17:13

with that kind of understanding.

Speaker: 00:17:15

And God switched paths.

Speaker: 00:17:18

I literally was going and starting to raise support to become

Speaker: 00:17:22

a college kind of minister.

Speaker: 00:17:25

And doors just kept shutting and shutting and shutting.

Speaker: 00:17:28

And it was just one of those weird moments where I was like, God, I thought

Speaker: 00:17:32

this is what you wanted me to do.

Speaker: 00:17:34

And he'd redirected me to the business world with this new kind of, passion to

Speaker: 00:17:40

say, I want to try to live so below my means that I can send with a passion.

Speaker: 00:17:48

I want people, when they talk to me about raising support.

Speaker: 00:17:51

I want to be like, how can I support you?

Speaker: 00:17:55

I want to be like, how can I trust the Lord to increase what he's given me so

Speaker: 00:18:01

that I can pass it on, not so that I can just keep increasing my lifestyle.

Speaker: 00:18:05

I want to keep increasing the capacity to give.

Speaker: 00:18:10

And man, that was a drastic change from how I grew up.

Speaker: 00:18:15

and again, I think it was just understanding the bible, understanding

Speaker: 00:18:20

what Jesus said about money and taking it in context versus the Christianese kind

Speaker: 00:18:27

of, cultural like view of these things that were just quite frankly just wrong.

Speaker: 00:18:34

Yeah, and I wanna say this, this is not throw our parents under the bus, talk

Speaker: 00:18:40

here, but they had scriptures to back up their thought process about money and

Speaker: 00:18:47

the context is extremely important to bring into when Jesus is saying things

Speaker: 00:18:54

about money and who is he speaking to and what are they doing at that time,

Speaker: 00:18:59

that would be a great conversation.

Speaker: 00:19:00

Let's don't go there.

Speaker: 00:19:02

but, and I'm always fascinated by this.

Speaker: 00:19:03

I cannot tell you, Joey, how many people that we've had here at Seek go

Speaker: 00:19:07

create that thought full-time ministry.

Speaker: 00:19:10

There were people of faith and they felt like they were called, that's

Speaker: 00:19:13

another Christianese word if you ask me.

Speaker: 00:19:15

They were called to go into the ministry progression, you know, youth

Speaker: 00:19:21

pastor, assistant pastor, whatever.

Speaker: 00:19:25

And you know, the ultimate, which is a missionary on foreign, you

Speaker: 00:19:28

know, foreign soil Somewhere.

Speaker: 00:19:30

And then they, and then when they leave that they go through this, oh my gosh.

Speaker: 00:19:34

You know, they're getting messages from friends.

Speaker: 00:19:36

Oh, you're backsliding is everything okay?

Speaker: 00:19:39

but it sounds like that happened with you early on.

Speaker: 00:19:41

Did you, were you, did you go into the mortgage world immediately or were

Speaker: 00:19:44

there some other stops and starts along

Speaker: 00:19:46

the way?

Speaker: 00:19:47

Yeah, actually it was, it was just really the lord's kindness.

Speaker: 00:19:51

I was meeting with some of those businessmen who I'd gotten connected

Speaker: 00:19:54

to, and I was just kind of lost and I was like, man, I really thought for

Speaker: 00:19:59

sure I was going into ministry and now I'm trying to pivot and figure

Speaker: 00:20:03

out where in the business world I fit.

Speaker: 00:20:05

So I met with several of them and just asked them, what do you do?

Speaker: 00:20:08

Like, how does, how does it work?

Speaker: 00:20:10

I, I just really haven't had experience.

Speaker: 00:20:12

And one of those guys was extremely strong believer who owned his own mortgage

Speaker: 00:20:18

company, and he was just sitting with me and just telling me what he did.

Speaker: 00:20:22

And I thought, man, that sounds really up my alley.

Speaker: 00:20:25

Like something I would really enjoy and I'd be gifted at.

Speaker: 00:20:29

And he said, you don't have any experience, so you, no, I don't

Speaker: 00:20:32

hire people without experience.

Speaker: 00:20:33

I'm like, what?

Speaker: 00:20:34

I mean, you just sold me on this whole idea.

Speaker: 00:20:36

I'm ready to go.

Speaker: 00:20:37

He's like, look.

Speaker: 00:20:39

Go find anywhere that will hire you, a bank, small bank, and just even

Speaker: 00:20:44

if they let you process mortgage loans, just to get your head

Speaker: 00:20:47

around how does it work and get the experience, that's your first step.

Speaker: 00:20:52

Well, at the time I lived across the street from a bank, little tiny bank, and

Speaker: 00:20:59

I said, well, I'm gonna take his advice.

Speaker: 00:21:01

I walked across the street with my resume and a plate of cookies and I sat with him.

Speaker: 00:21:07

I said, look, I just need to get some experience in the mortgage business.

Speaker: 00:21:10

will you, will you hire me?

Speaker: 00:21:12

And the lady was so hungry that day, her stomach was growling in the interview.

Speaker: 00:21:18

And I was like, look, I, I brought some cookies.

Speaker: 00:21:20

You know, they're out there in the lobby, like, help yourself.

Speaker: 00:21:23

and they thought that was the funnest thing that anybody ever done.

Speaker: 00:21:27

So they hired me.

Speaker: 00:21:28

And when I say they hired me, they put me on a hundred percent commission and

Speaker: 00:21:32

said, go, go see what you can kill.

Speaker: 00:21:35

I made no money for like three months, but I got experience and started

Speaker: 00:21:40

to get my hands around it, and then I went back to that original guy

Speaker: 00:21:43

and said, Hey, I did what you said.

Speaker: 00:21:45

I got experience.

Speaker: 00:21:46

Six months in.

Speaker: 00:21:47

He was like, okay, you can come work for me now.

Speaker: 00:21:49

So you're off to the races now.

Speaker: 00:21:51

I think if I did my timeframes right when I was looking at your background,

Speaker: 00:21:54

you were in the mortgage industry during that incredible awesome time of 2008.

Speaker: 00:22:01

we do not wanna spend much time on that, but just gimme a little bit of

Speaker: 00:22:06

what, what, how did Joey do during that?

Speaker: 00:22:09

Did the Lord just lift you up and you never had any pain or discomfort?

Speaker: 00:22:14

you notice how I was sort of joking about the lift you up, not total rapture,

Speaker: 00:22:18

which I'm not a huge proponent of, but just lifted you up so that you didn't

Speaker: 00:22:23

have to go through that tribulation and then set you back down gently in

Speaker: 00:22:26

around 2011, 12, or was there another

Speaker: 00:22:29

story?

Speaker: 00:22:31

Well, you know what's super crazy is at the time I was working for

Speaker: 00:22:36

Wells Fargo and we serviced, they serviced all of their loans and.

Speaker: 00:22:43

You know, 2008 hit and most people see from the real estate person's

Speaker: 00:22:48

perspective how bad it was.

Speaker: 00:22:51

And if you ask me how many purchase loans I was able to do

Speaker: 00:22:55

during that time, it was very few.

Speaker: 00:22:58

'cause people weren't going and buying new houses.

Speaker: 00:23:02

But what they were doing is the rates went from the sixes down into

Speaker: 00:23:07

the fours and all of a sudden I got inundated with refinance loans.

Speaker: 00:23:14

People that I had done business with for 5, 6, 7 years at the time.

Speaker: 00:23:19

Now they needed to refinance at a much lower rate.

Speaker: 00:23:23

And there were some government programs even that were allowing them to do it

Speaker: 00:23:26

without, you know, having to show as much income and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker: 00:23:31

I actually grew my income in my business during that time because

Speaker: 00:23:37

we had so many people looking to take advantage of those lower rates.

Speaker: 00:23:41

So.

Speaker: 00:23:42

it was actually a blessing and most of my real estate friends struggled, but

Speaker: 00:23:47

in terms of the mortgage industry, it was a great, actually time to be in.

Speaker: 00:23:53

Interesting.

Speaker: 00:23:54

Well, I'm one of those that went from whatever, the palace to

Speaker: 00:23:59

homeless at all during that season.

Speaker: 00:24:01

So I actually appreciate stories like that because sometimes we lump, every EMS

Speaker: 00:24:07

says, oh yeah, it was tough, tough, tough.

Speaker: 00:24:08

So

Speaker: 00:24:08

So I think that's awesome.

Speaker: 00:24:10

so this is my shift into, wealth without Wall Street.

Speaker: 00:24:14

I've got 1, 2, 3, 4, maybe five browsers pulled up on my computer here.

Speaker: 00:24:21

And obviously you and your partner Russ, y'all have

Speaker: 00:24:24

have really

Speaker: 00:24:26

leaned into.

Speaker: 00:24:28

The wealth without Wall Street, message, because I see podcasts, I see YouTube,

Speaker: 00:24:36

I see books and, scan through, listened to, looked at all of those, over the

Speaker: 00:24:42

last few days as I've been, you know, researching all things that are.

Speaker: 00:24:46

Joey, tell me about, I bet there was a transition as you moved into that.

Speaker: 00:24:52

Tell me a little about the transition, and we're gonna be moving into, the

Speaker: 00:24:55

last good bit of time we have talking about what's wrong with Wall Street,

Speaker: 00:25:01

what do we need to be looking at, passive income, things like that.

Speaker: 00:25:04

So start it.

Speaker: 00:25:06

Tell me about how it kind of got started.

Speaker: 00:25:08

Wealth without Wall

Speaker: 00:25:08

Street.

Speaker: 00:25:09

well, I'll tell you the baseline of our entire thing and the thing that

Speaker: 00:25:13

compelled me, to switch careers from the mortgage industry into what we do

Speaker: 00:25:17

now is, there was a book that I read in 2009 that Russ actually shared with me.

Speaker: 00:25:25

We were friends from church, that's how we met.

Speaker: 00:25:28

And he said, man, I'm gonna start sending you referrals as long as you understand

Speaker: 00:25:32

the concepts I'm teaching my clients.

Speaker: 00:25:34

It's called Become Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash.

Speaker: 00:25:37

And as I read that book, it's only 88 pages.

Speaker: 00:25:41

Very small, big print, you know, easy read.

Speaker: 00:25:45

I was just shocked that this was the thing I had always like, was looking

Speaker: 00:25:50

for, but didn't know what it was.

Speaker: 00:25:53

This was the mindset shift that took me from blindly just keeping my head

Speaker: 00:25:59

down, working 50, 60 hours a week, putting money away into my 401k.

Speaker: 00:26:05

Into IRAs and just hoping for retirement at someday.

Speaker: 00:26:10

And what he shared in that book was that I needed to take control of my

Speaker: 00:26:16

finances, And actually, Nelson Nashville was a strong believer before he passed.

Speaker: 00:26:21

I would say that it was becoming a steward of what God had given me and

Speaker: 00:26:28

not abdicating it to somebody else, which is what we've all been duped.

Speaker: 00:26:34

I say duped or encouraged or manipulated to think that, man, you know what,

Speaker: 00:26:40

Tim, you're just not that smart when it comes to financial matters.

Speaker: 00:26:44

And you didn't go to school to become a financial planner or a

Speaker: 00:26:48

market analyst or what have you.

Speaker: 00:26:50

You just don't have time for that.

Speaker: 00:26:52

So you just give me all your money.

Speaker: 00:26:56

And I'll be the one to manage it for you.

Speaker: 00:27:00

Now, a manager in any other situation actually has ownership or requirement

Speaker: 00:27:10

or liability to what they're managing.

Speaker: 00:27:14

But in the financial world, wall Street, they have no liability.

Speaker: 00:27:19

In fact, your accounts can go up or they can go down and

Speaker: 00:27:23

they will get paid regardless.

Speaker: 00:27:27

And they will encourage you that, Hey, you know what, we

Speaker: 00:27:30

just can't control everything.

Speaker: 00:27:32

Like, you know, this is what happened.

Speaker: 00:27:34

The market did this, the market did that, and you are literally stuck

Speaker: 00:27:39

on a rollercoaster at that point.

Speaker: 00:27:41

If the market goes up, you don't wanna sell because what you're gonna miss out,

Speaker: 00:27:47

there's this FOMO of it could continue to go, you don't, if it goes down.

Speaker: 00:27:52

You don't wanna lock in your losses and sell because now you're so far

Speaker: 00:27:56

behind, like what are you gonna do?

Speaker: 00:27:58

You've just really lost.

Speaker: 00:28:00

So you just continue this up and down, and Wall Street profits with today's dollars

Speaker: 00:28:06

on your money every single month where you are putting your money into there

Speaker: 00:28:15

with the hope that it's enough when you're 65, 70, whatever the case is, it is the

Speaker: 00:28:24

biggest scam that we have been told of all time, and people willingly give that money

Speaker: 00:28:32

over to that system every single day.

Speaker: 00:28:36

What Wealth without Wall Street is all about was born outta this concept

Speaker: 00:28:40

called the infinite banking concept, which takes all of your cash flow,

Speaker: 00:28:44

puts it into your control, into your economy, and then it begs you.

Speaker: 00:28:50

To become an investor.

Speaker: 00:28:52

And that's really where this whole thing came.

Speaker: 00:28:54

We didn't know what to invest in.

Speaker: 00:28:56

Tim, I'm just being honest with you.

Speaker: 00:28:57

If you asked me in 2008, I would've said, go buy like a piece of

Speaker: 00:29:01

real estate, a rental property.

Speaker: 00:29:04

That's about all I could think of.

Speaker: 00:29:06

But we started the podcast in 2017 because we had all these clients

Speaker: 00:29:12

doing this infinite banking concept.

Speaker: 00:29:14

They had all this cash that they were putting into their system

Speaker: 00:29:18

and it's a high cash value life insurance kind of system of policies.

Speaker: 00:29:22

And they're sitting there, Hey Joey, Russ, what do we do with it?

Speaker: 00:29:26

And we're like, I don't know.

Speaker: 00:29:28

What do you think?

Speaker: 00:29:29

I mean, so we started interviewing people that are passive income, real

Speaker: 00:29:34

estate, online entrepreneurs, people that could know what to do with capital.

Speaker: 00:29:41

And it was all off of Wall Street.

Speaker: 00:29:42

So thus the name Wealth Without Wall Street controlling your

Speaker: 00:29:47

cash and the end result.

Speaker: 00:29:49

Being, when your passive income exceeds your monthly expenses, you're now free.

Speaker: 00:29:57

I mean, as Tim is shaking, is nodding his head 'cause he

Speaker: 00:30:01

knows what we're talking about.

Speaker: 00:30:02

But as you listen to us, I want you to think about your calendar right now.

Speaker: 00:30:08

You pull up your phone, I got my phone right here.

Speaker: 00:30:11

You pull it up, you look at the calendar.

Speaker: 00:30:14

The question is, are the things on your calendar dictated

Speaker: 00:30:18

by you or by somebody else?

Speaker: 00:30:21

Is it your business that is owned you, that you literally have no time

Speaker: 00:30:27

to do anything outside of because it's really dictating to you?

Speaker: 00:30:31

Or do you work for somebody else in a W2 fashion that your majority of your life is

Speaker: 00:30:37

being owned and dictated by somebody else?

Speaker: 00:30:41

The financial freedom formula, when your passive income

Speaker: 00:30:44

exceeds your monthly expenses.

Speaker: 00:30:46

That means money that is at work on your behalf coming in monthly

Speaker: 00:30:52

exceeds what it costs you to live.

Speaker: 00:30:55

I then get to dictate what goes on the calendar, and that could be

Speaker: 00:30:59

exactly what God has created me to be.

Speaker: 00:31:03

I don't know what that is for you, but that is the end result that we're

Speaker: 00:31:07

trying to accomplish and everything we do is centered around that very concept,

Speaker: 00:31:15

I am sure.

Speaker: 00:31:16

With a message.

Speaker: 00:31:18

Wealth without Wall Street, since Wall Street is the norm or the

Speaker: 00:31:25

standard, or the propagandized, way, whatever term we want to use.

Speaker: 00:31:31

I think I might've shown my hand there.

Speaker: 00:31:33

Darn it.

Speaker: 00:31:33

I was trying to ask this in a different way.

Speaker: 00:31:35

it's what the masses believe.

Speaker: 00:31:37

Now it's interesting the masses don't necessarily participate in

Speaker: 00:31:40

it, but they believe the headlines.

Speaker: 00:31:43

I can't pull my phone up, it's my camera.

Speaker: 00:31:44

But if I go to any financial headline, they will be reporting

Speaker: 00:31:49

on, today, you know, recording this sometime in April, something that the

Speaker: 00:31:54

current president did that caused.

Speaker: 00:31:56

The market to go down 500, up 500, whatever you, but what are, what's

Speaker: 00:32:01

some of the pushback or arguments you get from people when you say that you

Speaker: 00:32:06

can create wealth without Wall Street?

Speaker: 00:32:09

Because

Speaker: 00:32:10

there's probably some that are going through a few people's minds listening in.

Speaker: 00:32:13

Let's go ahead and hit a few of those.

Speaker: 00:32:14

And then I wanna talk about passive income in general before we get to

Speaker: 00:32:17

some specifics.

Speaker: 00:32:18

Sure.

Speaker: 00:32:19

So number one, people are, I'll just use 4 0 1 Ks as an example.

Speaker: 00:32:26

They're like, Joey, I mean, I, you're telling me not to put money in 4K.

Speaker: 00:32:31

Like, that's dumb.

Speaker: 00:32:32

I get free money for my employer.

Speaker: 00:32:35

I get a hundred percent match.

Speaker: 00:32:36

That's like a, it's free money.

Speaker: 00:32:39

It's a hundred percent return.

Speaker: 00:32:41

I don't have to pay tax on that money.

Speaker: 00:32:42

Right?

Speaker: 00:32:43

It's a tax deferred type of opportunity.

Speaker: 00:32:46

Why wouldn't I do that?

Speaker: 00:32:48

And, and here's the thing that it comes down to,

Speaker: 00:32:53

if we're keeping score the same way, if you truly do want financial

Speaker: 00:32:58

freedom today, okay, and I'm talking to somebody who's 30 to 50 years old,

Speaker: 00:33:03

let's just say that that's the window of time that we're talking about.

Speaker: 00:33:07

And you say, I wanna be financially free today or as soon as possible,

Speaker: 00:33:12

then by putting money into a 401k, you are actually reducing your ability

Speaker: 00:33:18

to become free today because you're, you're purposely and voluntarily.

Speaker: 00:33:24

Putting money into something you can't touch until you're 59 and a half.

Speaker: 00:33:29

You say, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker: 00:33:31

But what about the, the match?

Speaker: 00:33:33

Does the match it the matches your incentive, your enticement to put your

Speaker: 00:33:39

money away for the next 20 years, 30 years, whatever, however old you are, is

Speaker: 00:33:44

that going to keep that, that could be keeping you from what your actual goal is.

Speaker: 00:33:50

So if you, now if you are like, you know what Joey, I just

Speaker: 00:33:53

want to go towards retirement.

Speaker: 00:33:55

I don't want to think about it.

Speaker: 00:33:56

I just wanna be on autopilot.

Speaker: 00:33:58

This is not your message, right?

Speaker: 00:34:01

Because you just keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker: 00:34:04

But for the person that says, you know what, he's right.

Speaker: 00:34:08

I want to spend time with my family today.

Speaker: 00:34:12

I want to be more active in my church family.

Speaker: 00:34:15

I want to be more, available because life is owning me.

Speaker: 00:34:21

Then the answer is, I have to take back control.

Speaker: 00:34:24

I have to be in a position to become an investor, to buy back my

Speaker: 00:34:29

time by creating passive income.

Speaker: 00:34:32

So people push back on the four one K until we have that conversation.

Speaker: 00:34:36

Because if your goal is different than mine, then we don't

Speaker: 00:34:39

have anything to talk about.

Speaker: 00:34:41

But if we have the same goal, then you have to objectively agree no matter

Speaker: 00:34:46

what the internal rate of return is, no matter what the tax benefit today is,

Speaker: 00:34:51

by the way, there is no tax benefit.

Speaker: 00:34:53

'cause 30 years from now, there's no telling what the taxes are going to be

Speaker: 00:34:57

when you actually start to pay them.

Speaker: 00:34:59

But if we're talking about financial freedom, there is no denying that that

Speaker: 00:35:03

is the worst vehicle to get you there.

Speaker: 00:35:07

And so that's one thing.

Speaker: 00:35:09

And then I'd say the second thing is people just don't want to be different.

Speaker: 00:35:12

They want to be just like everybody else.

Speaker: 00:35:15

They want to stay safe, they wanna stay.

Speaker: 00:35:18

Comfortable in the herd.

Speaker: 00:35:20

And for that person, I can't help 'em either, because you have to

Speaker: 00:35:26

be willing to do something that no one else is doing to have the

Speaker: 00:35:30

results that no one else is having.

Speaker: 00:35:33

And if you're not willing to do that, then you need to just kind of

Speaker: 00:35:36

reorient your expectations to not be surprised when you end up exactly in

Speaker: 00:35:41

the same place that everybody else is.

Speaker: 00:35:44

It's like somebody going to, you know, a really overweight personal trainer.

Speaker: 00:35:52

They've already proven that that's the result.

Speaker: 00:35:55

Why would I go to them?

Speaker: 00:35:56

They don't have the result that I'm looking for.

Speaker: 00:35:59

But it's just the same as going and following someone else.

Speaker: 00:36:02

Your, your, you know, your peers, your friends, your family who's telling you

Speaker: 00:36:08

all these things to do with your money.

Speaker: 00:36:10

And you look at their life and you say.

Speaker: 00:36:12

Actually, that doesn't really match up for me.

Speaker: 00:36:15

I wanna do something different than them.

Speaker: 00:36:18

But yet you're doing the same things as them with your money.

Speaker: 00:36:21

Those things do not coexist.

Speaker: 00:36:23

You cannot do that.

Speaker: 00:36:24

You have to have a reality check and say, I need to go find a

Speaker: 00:36:28

different personal trainer.

Speaker: 00:36:31

I think what you said earlier is pretty powerful.

Speaker: 00:36:33

I want to bring that back up again, that we're not abdicating.

Speaker: 00:36:40

Someone doing something with our money.

Speaker: 00:36:42

They just don't wanna think about it, don't wanna talk about it.

Speaker: 00:36:44

They, you know, they don't have the conversations like we're having here.

Speaker: 00:36:47

I love talking about money.

Speaker: 00:36:48

I love talking about wealth.

Speaker: 00:36:50

You know, it's, I've never had an issue with it.

Speaker: 00:36:52

in fact, I might.

Speaker: 00:36:53

At times should talk about it less.

Speaker: 00:36:55

But, anyway, so, so I do think they sort of UI use the word abdicate it.

Speaker: 00:37:01

They shun it, they resist it, and I like the word stewardship.

Speaker: 00:37:04

We've used the word stewardship here.

Speaker: 00:37:06

We're on 300 plus episodes.

Speaker: 00:37:08

That word comes up quite a bit

Speaker: 00:37:10

And

Speaker: 00:37:11

really an understanding of.

Speaker: 00:37:13

The gifts, talents, you know, whatever that God has given us, we steward over

Speaker: 00:37:17

those and I believe we have to give it back in a better condition than when we

Speaker: 00:37:21

received it as part of that stewardship.

Speaker: 00:37:24

Now, something that comes up though that is, I think a stumbling block for people

Speaker: 00:37:30

is this, this passive income or passive money because we're programmed to go to

Speaker: 00:37:38

work, get paid, go to work, get paid.

Speaker: 00:37:41

and I actually at times can be cynical about passive income because some

Speaker: 00:37:46

of the hardest work I've ever done is in the pursuit of passive income.

Speaker: 00:37:50

And, I'll bring this up from the book.

Speaker: 00:37:52

I think y'all have something called the PIOS Passive Income Operating

Speaker: 00:37:57

System, which to me, operating in passive is a little bit of an oxymoron.

Speaker: 00:38:01

So I'm gonna call you out a little bit and make you really talk about it.

Speaker: 00:38:05

But anyway, jumbo shrimp, passive operating anyway.

Speaker: 00:38:10

But, talk about, people that need to overcome the hurdle of no passive income.

Speaker: 00:38:15

You, you can't do that.

Speaker: 00:38:17

It's not a real thing.

Speaker: 00:38:19

And, you're always gonna have to do work for some type of financial

Speaker: 00:38:23

reward.

Speaker: 00:38:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:38:25

Well, so I'll just say, you know, spoiler alert, passive income

Speaker: 00:38:31

requires active engagement.

Speaker: 00:38:34

In order for it to ever be passive.

Speaker: 00:38:37

Okay?

Speaker: 00:38:37

So for instance, and this is where I think most people get the bad idea, I can become

Speaker: 00:38:44

a poor investor by passively throwing money at things and not ever spending any

Speaker: 00:38:51

time in due diligence or understanding what it means to be an investor.

Speaker: 00:38:57

You have to put in the time, you have to put in the energy, the effort to be

Speaker: 00:39:04

able to know what good looks like, okay?

Speaker: 00:39:07

Otherwise, the very first thing that you look at is gonna look

Speaker: 00:39:11

fantastic, and it's a dog.

Speaker: 00:39:14

I'm just gonna tell you, you haven't looked at 10 deals.

Speaker: 00:39:17

You looked at one and one looks amazing.

Speaker: 00:39:20

You look at 10, and that one may be the worst of the 10, but the reason that

Speaker: 00:39:25

you don't do it is because you didn't get active as becoming an investor.

Speaker: 00:39:31

the second thing is whenever you are even looking, let's say you've become

Speaker: 00:39:36

an investor and you are knowledgeable and understanding, when you are

Speaker: 00:39:42

looking at deals, you have to actively engage in a due diligence process.

Speaker: 00:39:48

This is the stewardship aspect.

Speaker: 00:39:51

Hey, this pitch deck came by me, my office, and I look at it and

Speaker: 00:39:56

it looks good on the surface, but there's some due diligence items.

Speaker: 00:39:59

Like who's the operator?

Speaker: 00:40:01

What's the asset type?

Speaker: 00:40:02

Does it fit my investor?

Speaker: 00:40:04

when does the capital actually start to come back to me?

Speaker: 00:40:08

Is it quick?

Speaker: 00:40:08

Is it three months?

Speaker: 00:40:09

Is it six months?

Speaker: 00:40:10

Is it 12 months?

Speaker: 00:40:12

Is there a stabilization period?

Speaker: 00:40:15

Is it geographically located in a place that I want my money to be, stored up in?

Speaker: 00:40:21

Is it in like looking at the macroeconomics of the world?

Speaker: 00:40:26

Does it look like it's in a place where it's gonna continue

Speaker: 00:40:29

to grow or is it shrinking back in terms of the market itself?

Speaker: 00:40:34

these are all things that, as an investor, you actively engage with that

Speaker: 00:40:40

opportunity before you passively invest.

Speaker: 00:40:43

And so to your point, passive income does not mean uninvolved income.

Speaker: 00:40:51

You have to be an investor and you have to take the time to not just

Speaker: 00:40:55

blindly throw money at something.

Speaker: 00:40:57

if you do, you'll become an investor by learning the lessons the hard way.

Speaker: 00:41:01

but it is a necessary step to become that.

Speaker: 00:41:05

Now to answer your passive income operating system.

Speaker: 00:41:08

The operating system is the active flow of cash in your economy, and most people

Speaker: 00:41:15

never get out of what you just said.

Speaker: 00:41:18

Get paid, pay the bills, get paid, pay the bills, get paid, pay the bills.

Speaker: 00:41:23

That's the rat race.

Speaker: 00:41:25

That's the rat race that we get stuck in.

Speaker: 00:41:28

The Passade operating system connects a whole different side to that.

Speaker: 00:41:33

I get paid, I pay the bills, and there's whatever's left over,

Speaker: 00:41:37

gets into the right hand side.

Speaker: 00:41:38

We call that the wealth, accelerator side.

Speaker: 00:41:42

And that's where we tie in the infinite banking concept.

Speaker: 00:41:45

That's where we tie in this never ending compounding machine that is

Speaker: 00:41:51

passively growing for you, but it is all a part of the active, controlled

Speaker: 00:41:57

environment that you put your cash flow through so that it can create the

Speaker: 00:42:02

passive income that will then free you.

Speaker: 00:42:04

Good.

Speaker: 00:42:05

And we've already established earlier that

Speaker: 00:42:09

this is not necessarily easy.

Speaker: 00:42:11

It's not.

Speaker: 00:42:12

I think there's some simplification.

Speaker: 00:42:14

We're gonna talk about that here in our last bit of time together.

Speaker: 00:42:16

we're gonna simplify what that looks like so someone can understand.

Speaker: 00:42:19

there are steps along the way that people have to do a little extra, I think is the

Speaker: 00:42:26

way I heard it as we're going through it.

Speaker: 00:42:28

I think the first part, you just brought it up actually, you said it at the

Speaker: 00:42:32

very beginning, is that you chose to live below your means and have extra.

Speaker: 00:42:40

I actually think that a large percentage we could.

Speaker: 00:42:44

Probably find the math pretty easily of people.

Speaker: 00:42:48

This is a, we go all over, but let's just talk about the us.

Speaker: 00:42:52

They are not living below their means.

Speaker: 00:42:55

They're not living at their means.

Speaker: 00:42:58

They're living above their means, which means this is gonna be a

Speaker: 00:43:02

tough conversation for them, right?

Speaker: 00:43:05

right.

Speaker: 00:43:05

I mean, because this is not some kind of magical, get rich quick, you

Speaker: 00:43:10

know, you snap your fingers and all of a sudden you're still gonna have

Speaker: 00:43:14

the same cars and the bills and the credit card debt, and this is going

Speaker: 00:43:18

to magically get you outta that.

Speaker: 00:43:20

That's not the case.

Speaker: 00:43:21

I've actually been around a lot of people of faith that have that philosophy too, by

Speaker: 00:43:27

the way, um, that God's going to somehow, um, wipe everything out and all that.

Speaker: 00:43:34

So let's talk about, let's assume that someone's listening in and they've got

Speaker: 00:43:38

some extra, and they're intrigued by this.

Speaker: 00:43:41

They've got extra money.

Speaker: 00:43:42

Let's say they're in that age bracket that you talked about

Speaker: 00:43:45

earlier, and they go, you know what?

Speaker: 00:43:48

I'd like to start creating this.

Speaker: 00:43:50

You called it a system, I'll call it a bucket, that they wanna start putting

Speaker: 00:43:54

something into this bucket I've heard

Speaker: 00:43:57

life

Speaker: 00:43:59

I've heard contracts with life insurance.

Speaker: 00:44:00

I've heard.

Speaker: 00:44:01

Then I start investing.

Speaker: 00:44:03

Let's take just a few baby steps and walk people through the, the basics there.

Speaker: 00:44:07

So

Speaker: 00:44:08

sure.

Speaker: 00:44:08

How does it get started?

Speaker: 00:44:10

So the first thing is the passive income operating system is getting your goals

Speaker: 00:44:18

aligned with what you do with cash.

Speaker: 00:44:21

If my goals are to become financially free, to get my passive income

Speaker: 00:44:25

exceeding my monthly expenses.

Speaker: 00:44:27

I'm no longer gonna put money into 4 0 1 Ks than IRAs.

Speaker: 00:44:31

I'm gonna stop the flow of money into those vehicles, which means I now have

Speaker: 00:44:36

more money in my bank account at the end of the month, assuming I don't

Speaker: 00:44:41

allow my lifestyle to creep, right?

Speaker: 00:44:43

Number two, I'm gonna stop paying cash for everything that I do.

Speaker: 00:44:49

Cash is the most expensive way to pay for anything, and most people will

Speaker: 00:44:55

challenge me on this and say, well, Joey, I mean there's no cost to cash wrong.

Speaker: 00:45:00

There's opportunity cost that you never get a bill for.

Speaker: 00:45:04

What do I mean by that?

Speaker: 00:45:06

If I go and put a hundred thousand dollars down on a house that I'm going to then

Speaker: 00:45:12

use as a rental property or a second home, or what have you, whatever you wanna call

Speaker: 00:45:16

it, that a hundred thousand came from my bank account, which at that point doesn't

Speaker: 00:45:22

have any ability to earn another dollar.

Speaker: 00:45:26

Until I replace it back, right?

Speaker: 00:45:30

Nobody's gonna send you a bill that says, Hey, by the way, Tim, that a

Speaker: 00:45:34

hundred thousand could have earned $36,000 over the last eight years

Speaker: 00:45:38

or whatever the timeframe was.

Speaker: 00:45:40

But that's the reality of what actually happened.

Speaker: 00:45:44

Now, why do we then use infinite banking or these, whole life insurance policies

Speaker: 00:45:49

designed for cash value because they allow you to not only store the capital, put

Speaker: 00:45:55

the money into these contracts, but then to borrow against them so that your money

Speaker: 00:46:00

always grows, never stops compounding.

Speaker: 00:46:03

So you never give up the opportunity cost, and you can repay it over time.

Speaker: 00:46:10

With these, there's loan provisions and things we could probably get into

Speaker: 00:46:13

if you want to, but the reason we just replace your checking account

Speaker: 00:46:17

with a better mousetrap, something that gives you more of what you want

Speaker: 00:46:21

it to do and less of what you don't.

Speaker: 00:46:25

And then the third thing that people stop doing when they're really actively

Speaker: 00:46:30

trying to get to this place of, building financial freedom is they

Speaker: 00:46:35

stop paying off their debts as the only design for what they do with money.

Speaker: 00:46:41

I love Dave Ramsey because he helps people who are living way above

Speaker: 00:46:46

their means get below their means.

Speaker: 00:46:48

He helps them psychologically to say, stop doing stupid things and trying to keep

Speaker: 00:46:54

up with people that don't care about you.

Speaker: 00:46:57

I'm glad Dave is, but when it comes to absolutely like, you know, the simplicity

Speaker: 00:47:03

of his deal is just pay off all debt.

Speaker: 00:47:05

All debt is bad, never get debt.

Speaker: 00:47:07

It's so bad.

Speaker: 00:47:08

Don't ever do it.

Speaker: 00:47:09

When you're trying to keep, tabs on this financial freedom formula, you

Speaker: 00:47:14

have to be objective about when do you pay off debt and when do you not?

Speaker: 00:47:19

It's just not this blanket.

Speaker: 00:47:20

Like if it's debt, you pay it off.

Speaker: 00:47:22

You say, man, I've accumulated $50,000 and I have two choices to make.

Speaker: 00:47:28

I can either, again, 'cause I'm keeping track of the formula, passive

Speaker: 00:47:33

income exceeding monthly expenses.

Speaker: 00:47:36

There's two sides to the coin, not just monthly expenses,

Speaker: 00:47:38

which would include debts.

Speaker: 00:47:41

And so I say if I have $50,000 that I've accumulated in my

Speaker: 00:47:44

system, what do I do with it?

Speaker: 00:47:47

I can either go put it into a passive asset, maybe it's a syndication, maybe

Speaker: 00:47:54

it's into a land flipping business, maybe it's into a private loan, whatever.

Speaker: 00:48:01

And let's just say that that would create $500 a month.

Speaker: 00:48:04

Or I can take 50,000 and I can pay off a car loan.

Speaker: 00:48:09

And let's just say that the car loan was $350 a month.

Speaker: 00:48:12

If I'm keeping tabs on this formula and I could either produce $500 a

Speaker: 00:48:19

month passive income or pay off $350 a month for my car loan, which one

Speaker: 00:48:27

is actually getting me closer to my goal to produce the 500 a month?

Speaker: 00:48:32

Right?

Speaker: 00:48:33

So although I could have paid off the car, it actually would've taken me

Speaker: 00:48:38

backwards on my ultimate goal of passive income greater than monthly expenses.

Speaker: 00:48:45

Notice that I did not say what the interest rate was

Speaker: 00:48:49

because it doesn't matter.

Speaker: 00:48:51

It's about the cash flow, which one is getting me closer to financial freedom.

Speaker: 00:48:56

And so if you can be objective about that and keep that as your main focus.

Speaker: 00:49:03

Now you have a system that you are consistently using those

Speaker: 00:49:07

dollars at the highest level to get you to your end result.

Speaker: 00:49:13

So that's kind of how the first step that people have to do is stop doing

Speaker: 00:49:17

certain things with money, start doing things with money that really uplift

Speaker: 00:49:23

and encourage your actual end goal.

Speaker: 00:49:26

And we can talk about steps two and three, but that's, that's

Speaker: 00:49:29

the number one thing in my mind.

Speaker: 00:49:31

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:49:31

And the big thing here is, if you're coming against Dave Ramsey, you may

Speaker: 00:49:36

have some issues you have to deal with because we won't say he's the 13th

Speaker: 00:49:41

disciple, but some people think he is.

Speaker: 00:49:44

And,

Speaker: 00:49:44

and,

Speaker: 00:49:44

and,

Speaker: 00:49:45

and I've known people that have come against Dave and it's like, Ooh.

Speaker: 00:49:48

And I pull for Dave and I agree in general with the debt thing also.

Speaker: 00:49:53

but there, there is ways of leveraging.

Speaker: 00:49:55

so you've got this system that I still think some people have a

Speaker: 00:50:01

difficult

Speaker: 00:50:02

wrapping their head around.

Speaker: 00:50:03

So I'm gonna get whole life policies, I've got contracts, and then from

Speaker: 00:50:08

those policies I'll borrow against the cash value so that I could

Speaker: 00:50:12

then go out and do other things.

Speaker: 00:50:14

I'm sure there's some people will say, you know, I think I'm gonna

Speaker: 00:50:18

just get the policies and let it sit.

Speaker: 00:50:20

That.

Speaker: 00:50:21

That.

Speaker: 00:50:22

That is probably fine, but it's not really maximizing what someone can

Speaker: 00:50:28

do.

Speaker: 00:50:28

Correct.

Speaker: 00:50:30

Well, think about it this way.

Speaker: 00:50:31

the policy is not an investment.

Speaker: 00:50:34

The policy is a replacement for your savings vehicle.

Speaker: 00:50:40

So you tell me, if someone says, yeah, I'm just gonna let the policy ride and

Speaker: 00:50:44

that's gonna be my, you know, long-term deal, well then the question would

Speaker: 00:50:49

be is how, how wealthy do you believe people that just save money become?

Speaker: 00:50:57

There's not, there's not a good example of somebody that just saves money in

Speaker: 00:51:00

a savings vehicle that gets wealthy.

Speaker: 00:51:04

At best, they're going to keep up with inflation at worst,

Speaker: 00:51:10

like a checking account or, you know, even a savings account.

Speaker: 00:51:13

They're losing ground as it relates to inflation.

Speaker: 00:51:16

So it's like termites in your money.

Speaker: 00:51:19

It's not actually going to help you get to wealth.

Speaker: 00:51:23

True wealth is through cash flow.

Speaker: 00:51:25

And so I always have to take whatever the savings dollars I have and put it to work.

Speaker: 00:51:31

Otherwise, I use the term it's lazy cash.

Speaker: 00:51:35

Lazy cash is not acceptable.

Speaker: 00:51:37

We have to keep it at work.

Speaker: 00:51:39

It has to be doing work while we're actively at work or creating

Speaker: 00:51:44

wealth, it has to be doing its job.

Speaker: 00:51:46

the policies just are the greatest holding place.

Speaker: 00:51:50

Nelson Nash called it Your Warehouse for wealth.

Speaker: 00:51:54

And I think that's a perfect analogy because what's a warehouse?

Speaker: 00:51:57

Do money come, things come into the warehouse, things go out of the warehouse.

Speaker: 00:52:02

Things come into the warehouse, things go out.

Speaker: 00:52:04

your policy or your system of policies has to be always in flux, always being used.

Speaker: 00:52:12

It's not something to just be sitting there, you know, picking up dust.

Speaker: 00:52:16

and so that's one thing we've really, really honed in on is the systematic

Speaker: 00:52:20

use, not just the, you know, the cul-de-sac, if you will, for your money.

Speaker: 00:52:28

Right, and that's where a lot of these, which I love these topics.

Speaker: 00:52:33

I mean, you guys have massive amounts of topics on your YouTube channel

Speaker: 00:52:37

and your podcast where you're really just gathering, it sounds like you're

Speaker: 00:52:40

gathering information to try to find ways of generating passive income because

Speaker: 00:52:47

you've got all of these mechanisms, these savings mechanisms in place that

Speaker: 00:52:51

people can then go out and do that.

Speaker: 00:52:53

There's one interesting thing that you do, and I think I heard it on the

Speaker: 00:52:59

podcast, I guess you probably do it on YouTube too, is that you and Russ will

Speaker: 00:53:03

state where you are currently at your key performance indicator of passive.

Speaker: 00:53:10

Income.

Speaker: 00:53:11

I want to ask you if you can say where that is here in spring.

Speaker: 00:53:16

We'll put a timestamp on this episode, spring of 2025.

Speaker: 00:53:19

But before I do, I wanna ask, if your parents are okay with you letting the

Speaker: 00:53:27

world know with the background you grew up in letting the world know how much money

Speaker: 00:53:33

you're making in your passive income.

Speaker: 00:53:36

Did they ever say anything to you

Speaker: 00:53:37

about that?

Speaker: 00:53:38

I'm curious.

Speaker: 00:53:39

You know what it is, it is somewhat of a concern that people are like,

Speaker: 00:53:43

wait a minute, you're putting this out on, front street here.

Speaker: 00:53:46

And my, answer to that, Tim, is we don't want to be thought leaders.

Speaker: 00:53:52

I think the world is hungry for authenticity.

Speaker: 00:53:55

Like they need to know.

Speaker: 00:53:57

I. That you're not just talking about something, that you're actually doing it.

Speaker: 00:54:01

That there is actual action being taken and that people

Speaker: 00:54:07

are eating their own cooking.

Speaker: 00:54:09

You know, that's how we say it here in Alabama, right?

Speaker: 00:54:11

Eat your own cooking.

Speaker: 00:54:13

We, we want people to, we need to be results leaders, and it is

Speaker: 00:54:18

uncomfortable at times, but what we always lead with is this is not

Speaker: 00:54:23

a boastful like, Hey, look at us.

Speaker: 00:54:26

This is, Hey, this is what's working.

Speaker: 00:54:30

This is what's not working.

Speaker: 00:54:31

By the way, we share those arrows in the back as well, and we've had some

Speaker: 00:54:36

pretty humbling moments on the podcast and on the YouTube channel, but at the

Speaker: 00:54:41

end of the day, it's to lead by example.

Speaker: 00:54:44

I, I told you that initially Jesus gave models.

Speaker: 00:54:49

This is a model that we can share with the world to say, we built the system.

Speaker: 00:54:56

We became investors, not perfect investors.

Speaker: 00:54:58

In fact, we've lost a lot of money and this is the result.

Speaker: 00:55:03

And if you want results similar, we can show you the way that's, that's

Speaker: 00:55:08

ultimately what this is about.

Speaker: 00:55:11

we don't share our active income.

Speaker: 00:55:12

We share our passive income.

Speaker: 00:55:14

And, our whole job is to inspire, educate, empower, and expose

Speaker: 00:55:20

people to what's possible.

Speaker: 00:55:23

Yeah, I think I heard ranges 30 5K to 50 and bouncing around

Speaker: 00:55:28

right is, I mean, those are

Speaker: 00:55:30

nice numbers.

Speaker: 00:55:32

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:55:32

It does not, it's not perfectly stable every single month because

Speaker: 00:55:36

certain things pay out in some months.

Speaker: 00:55:37

Certain pay don't pay out in others.

Speaker: 00:55:40

I mean, we have, lots of different areas that we ra, you know, have money in.

Speaker: 00:55:45

I'll give you one quick example.

Speaker: 00:55:47

We have have three cars on Touro that someone else operates, and last month

Speaker: 00:55:54

I showed a negative $900 because one of those cars came back with massive damage.

Speaker: 00:56:01

Two, two tires busted, or not busted, but the, the, the wheels were,

Speaker: 00:56:07

dented and a tire run in was busted.

Speaker: 00:56:10

It was just, they must have hit a curb or something and just didn't care, you

Speaker: 00:56:16

know, and there was also an alternator that went out, like there's maintenance

Speaker: 00:56:21

issues that go wrong, whereas the month before it was like $2,700 just with those

Speaker: 00:56:26

three cars and I didn't do anything.

Speaker: 00:56:29

It was, I was not hands on at all.

Speaker: 00:56:31

So there's ups and downs with each one of these things.

Speaker: 00:56:34

But on the whole, they average around 50,000 a month.

Speaker: 00:56:38

And, we're constantly just trying to think about what's the next thing or

Speaker: 00:56:42

what should we put more money into?

Speaker: 00:56:44

And, I think one of our biggest negatives is that we are the ones

Speaker: 00:56:48

that interview all these people.

Speaker: 00:56:50

And so we wanna try 'em all, you know, like we probably should

Speaker: 00:56:54

start to limit down our favorites.

Speaker: 00:56:57

what?

Speaker: 00:56:57

What's your

Speaker: 00:56:57

my favorite,

Speaker: 00:56:58

Yeah, I was gonna say, What's your favorite one right now?

Speaker: 00:57:00

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:57:01

I think buying and selling raw Land on notes is my favorite.

Speaker: 00:57:06

if you haven't interviewed the land geek.com, mark Podolski, he taught

Speaker: 00:57:11

us this method and he actually has a team that runs our business.

Speaker: 00:57:15

We buy land for 20 to 30 cents on the dollar.

Speaker: 00:57:18

We sell it to retail buyers on terms.

Speaker: 00:57:22

So I buy a property for 2,500, I sell it for 10,000, but the 10,000

Speaker: 00:57:28

may be a thousand dollars down and $300 a month for 30 months.

Speaker: 00:57:34

That's a perfect deal for us.

Speaker: 00:57:36

we just keep stacking 300, 300, 300, and that has, yielded over 30,000 a

Speaker: 00:57:41

month just in that one asset type.

Speaker: 00:57:44

I love it.

Speaker: 00:57:45

it's hard for that thing to go wrong because in any economy, people

Speaker: 00:57:49

are flooding to real assets like land and we make it affordable

Speaker: 00:57:54

for people to be able to do it.

Speaker: 00:57:56

they're not making any more of it.

Speaker: 00:57:58

So it's really a great, stable asset class.

Speaker: 00:58:02

and it's fully run by an operator.

Speaker: 00:58:05

Who's an expert.

Speaker: 00:58:07

Yeah, that's good.

Speaker: 00:58:08

There's probably so many more.

Speaker: 00:58:10

I recommend people, I think I see a bunch of 'em here over on the YouTube

Speaker: 00:58:14

channel and I'm sure the podcast.

Speaker: 00:58:16

So there's a lot of resources you guys have.

Speaker: 00:58:20

I think, Joey, this would be a great time to just share with the audience.

Speaker: 00:58:24

We'll include things down in the notes.

Speaker: 00:58:26

What's the best way for people to get in touch with you to get more info?

Speaker: 00:58:30

You know, you've got podcasts, you've got book, you've got

Speaker: 00:58:32

YouTube, where do you want

Speaker: 00:58:34

people to go to connect?

Speaker: 00:58:36

Well, I'll tell you, we made a specific page just for your audience.

Speaker: 00:58:39

if you go to wealth wall street.com, slash seek, go create.

Speaker: 00:58:45

So wealth wall streete.com/seek go create.

Speaker: 00:58:49

our contact info's on there, our access to our community.

Speaker: 00:58:53

I think we have some other free resources there.

Speaker: 00:58:56

Love for you to connect with us and let us know that you heard Tim and

Speaker: 00:59:00

I, having this, great conversation today so we know where you came from.

Speaker: 00:59:05

All right, last quick question.

Speaker: 00:59:07

One, quick tip.

Speaker: 00:59:09

We've covered a bunch, but like your quick rapid fire tip that

Speaker: 00:59:14

you could give before I wrap up

Speaker: 00:59:15

The one thing we didn't talk about is becoming an investor.

Speaker: 00:59:19

it starts with knowing your investor, DNA, go and find your investor DNA profile.

Speaker: 00:59:26

We have a tool that you can engage with us on, and it tells you how does your

Speaker: 00:59:32

personality, how did God create you, to see the world with your resources, your

Speaker: 00:59:37

experiences, your access to capital.

Speaker: 00:59:40

What out of about 16 different passive income strategies

Speaker: 00:59:45

line up the best with you?

Speaker: 00:59:47

Because you should just be doing the things that have the highest ROI.

Speaker: 00:59:52

Do what?

Speaker: 00:59:53

Lines up with your personality and you'll actually get, closer and faster

Speaker: 00:59:58

to financial freedom than anything else.

Speaker: 01:00:02

Excellent.

Speaker: 01:00:02

Yeah, I love that because everybody's got different mindset and I mean, there are

Speaker: 01:00:07

things that I'm comfortable with that you may not be and et cetera, so I love that.

Speaker: 01:00:11

So we'll make sure to include all that.

Speaker: 01:00:12

Joey Muray, thank you so much.

Speaker: 01:00:14

Wealth without Wall Street is all of their resources.

Speaker: 01:00:18

He gave a great link.

Speaker: 01:00:19

We'll include it down in the notes it's been a cool conversation.

Speaker: 01:00:22

I love it.

Speaker: 01:00:22

We've got new episodes every Monday.

Speaker: 01:00:24

I appreciate everybody joining in here.

Speaker: 01:00:27

Keep commenting, keep rating, all those cool things.

Speaker: 01:00:30

I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker: 01:00:32

thanks for joining us.

Speaker: 01:00:33

See you next week.