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Breaking the Mold: Unleashing the Potential of Fractional Leadership with Ben Wolf

Does this sound familiar? You've been told that in order to achieve flexibility in your leadership roles, you need to hire full-time executives who may not be the right fit for your business. But instead of experiencing increased effectiveness, you find yourself struggling to adapt to changing market dynamics and feeling stuck in a rigid leadership structure. The pain of not achieving the desired results and lacking the flexibility you need is holding you back from reaching your true potential. It's time to explore the untapped potential of fractional executives and discover a new approach to leadership that brings both flexibility and success.

"Being too nice can rob us of our mission and dreams for ourselves, our loved ones, and our businesses. It's time to be bold and unapologetically chase our aspirations." - Ben Wolf

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

Ben Wolf, the founder of Wolf's Edge, is a leading expert in fractional executive leadership. With a background in corporate restructuring and bankruptcy law, Ben found himself drawn to the world of startups and the challenges they face in scaling their businesses. Through his own experiences and learning from others, Ben developed a deep understanding of the need for experienced executives to guide business owners through the complexities of growth. This led him to create Wolf's Edge, a firm specializing in providing fractional COOs to businesses across America. Ben's expertise and passion for helping entrepreneurs achieve their dreams have made him a sought-after speaker and author. His groundbreaking book, Fractional Leadership: Landing Executive Talent You Thought Was Out of Reach, has become an Amazon bestseller, further solidifying his reputation as a thought leader in the industry. With his wealth of knowledge and practical insights, Ben is making a significant impact in the world of business, leadership, and growth.

Reasons to Listen:

  • Discover the benefits that fractional leadership can bring to your business and how it can help you achieve greater success.
  • Unlock the flexibility and adaptability of fractional executives and learn how they can bring a unique perspective to your leadership team.
  • Understand the importance of intentional living and how it can transform your personal and professional life.
  • Embrace change as an opportunity for personal growth and learn strategies to navigate through times of uncertainty.
  • Find your passion and purpose in life and discover how pursuing them can bring fulfillment and success to your business and beyond.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🔹 Unlock Your Potential Today!

  • 🎙 Coaching with Tim: Elevate your leadership and align your work with your faith. Learn More
  • 📚 "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined": A transformative read that will challenge your views on success. Grab Your Copy
  • 📝 Faith Driven Leader Quiz: Discover how well you're aligning faith and work with our quick quiz. Take the Quiz

Key Lessons:

1. Embrace challenges and adversity: The speaker suggests that challenges can lead to something good, like olive oil or wine. They emphasize the importance of not shying away from difficult situations but rather seeing them as opportunities for growth.

2. Follow your true calling: The speaker reflects on their career path and questions if they were created to do their current work. They encourage listeners to reflect on whether their current career aligns with their true calling and to not settle for mediocrity.

3. Don't compromise on your dreams: The speaker urges listeners to stop compromising on their dreams and to pursue their passions wholeheartedly. They highlight the importance of making an impact in the world and having bigger dreams for oneself, family, community, and customers.

4. Build a self-managing team: For business owners, it is essential to create a self-managing team that can operate without constant supervision. The speaker suggests bringing in an outside Chief Operating Officer (COO) to lead the leadership team and elevate the right people.

5. Utilize fractional executives: Fractional executives offer a cost-effective way for business owners to access specific expertise and fill gaps in their organizations. The speaker highlights the importance of hiring fractional leaders with prior experience in building businesses similar to yours.

6. Redefine success: The speaker shares their personal journey of redefining success after losing a job. They emphasize that success is not limited to following a specific career path but rather embracing the unique set of experiences and skills one possesses.

7. Focus on strengths: The speaker advises business owners to focus on their strengths and outsource tasks that are not within their expertise. They recommend hiring fractional leaders who can effectively handle specialized areas like sales, allowing the business owner to add more value to the business.

8. Cultivate a culture of growth: The speaker emphasizes the business owner's attitude and openness to growth and learning when building a successful culture. They highlight the importance of the business owner's commitment to making tough decisions and implementing necessary changes.

9. Understand the value of leadership: The speaker highlights the importance of recognizing when there is a lack of knowledge or experience within a team and outsourcing the role to a fractional executive. They emphasize that leadership should be valued for its expertise and vision, rather than just availability.

10. Learn from diverse examples: Being a fractional leader offers the advantage of working with various companies, people, leadership styles, and cultures. The speaker encourages fractional executives to embrace diversity, learn from each client, and continue to expand their knowledge and experience.

11. Fill gaps with fractional roles: The speaker suggests that understanding the concept of fractional roles can be beneficial not only for business owners but also for individuals interested in fractional roles or those already in them. They emphasize that fractional executives can provide value by filling gaps or replacing underperforming individuals in a business.

Overall, the key lessons from this episode revolve around embracing challenges, pursuing one's true calling, not compromising on dreams, building self-managing teams, utilizing fractional executives, and redefining success. The importance of focusing on strengths, cultivating a culture of growth, and understanding the value of leadership are also highlighted.

Episode Highlights:

00:00:00 - Introduction

Ben Wolf explains his role as a fractional Chief Operating Officer (COO) and how he helps business owners scale their businesses and achieve their goals.

00:03:19 - Journey to Fractional Leadership

Ben shares his background as a corporate restructuring and bankruptcy attorney in a Manhattan law firm. He then transitioned to working at a healthcare startup, where he gained experience in growing a business. This experience led him to realize the need for fractional executives who can provide guidance and leadership to businesses.

00:06:52 - Writing the First Book on Fractional Leadership

Ben discusses how he wrote the first book on the concept of fractional executives because he saw a gap in the market. The book aims to educate business owners on the benefits of fractional leadership and how it can help them access experienced executives at an affordable cost.

00:08:12 - Transition from Law to Startups

Ben explains his transition from being a lawyer to working in startups. After losing his job as a lawyer, he explored his strengths and applied for nonprofit executive director positions. Eventually, he found himself working in a healthcare startup and gaining valuable experience in scaling businesses.

00:10:38 - Becoming a Fractional COO

Ben shares his journey of becoming a fractional COO after leaving a unhealthy work environment. He decided to offer his services as a fractional executive and built his own firm. Ben emphasizes the importance of business development and networking in this role.

00:14:33 - Confidence in Starting a Startup

The guest reflects on his confidence level when starting a startup and emphasizes the importance of making a decision and committing to it. He believes that once you start something, confidence becomes irrelevant, and success becomes the only option.

00:15:22 - Overcoming Doubts in Building a Solo Practice

The guest shares his experience of building a solo fractional COO practice and acknowledges having doubts along the way. However, he emphasizes the importance of setting goals, hitting metrics, and acting confident, which ultimately led to success in his field.

00:17:03 - Unique Paths and Trusting Providence

The guest discusses the uniqueness of each individual's career path and advises his children and others to follow their own interests and strengths. He believes that there is some providence that will guide individuals to the right path for themselves, emphasizing the importance of trust and faith.

00:19:51 - Fractional Leadership and Unique Skill Sets

The guest explains that fractional leadership is similar to regular executive roles but fulfilled on a part-time basis. He highlights the advantage of being able to afford experienced professionals and discusses how different career paths can contribute to unique skill sets.

00:22:52 - Addressing Concerns about Fractional Leadership

The guest addresses a common concern about the effectiveness of fractional leaders not working full time. He attributes this concern to helicopter management and emphasizes the importance of addressing people and process issues to make fractional leadership successful.

00:29:12 - The Importance of a Culture Open to Fractional Leaders

Having a culture that is open to fractional leaders is crucial. The business owner needs to be open to growth and learning, willing to make hard decisions, and have a desire for a better way. Even if the rest of the organization is not initially on board, success can still be achieved with the right attitude from the business owner.

00:32:46 - Business Owners Realizing the Need for Help

Business owners may reach a point where they realize they don't have the knowledge or expertise within their team for a particular function. This could be in areas like sales, finance, or operations. Bringing in a fractional leader who has experience and expertise can save time and money and provide valuable insights and leadership.

00:34:25 - The Stages Leading to Considering a Fractional Leader

The stages leading to considering a fractional leader include recognizing that help is needed, trying various methods and experiments without success, and realizing that it's more efficient to focus on what you're great at and bring in someone with expertise in the specific area of need. This could be a fractional salesperson, CFO, or COO.

00:39:04 - Addressing the "Our Business is Different" Argument

When business owners claim that their business is different, it's important to address their concerns and explain how a fractional leader can bring expertise and adaptability to any unique situation. The key is finding a fractional leader who can understand and work with the specific needs and circumstances of the business.

00:43:19 - The Benefits of Fractional Leadership

Fractional leaders are attracted to the role because it offers more fun, flexibility, and money. They get to work with different companies, have more variety in their work, and make a major impact before moving on to the next challenge. The flexibility allows them to have more time for personal pursuits.

00:57:19 - Introduction

Tim Winders thanks the audience for joining and mentions that new episodes are released every Monday.

00:57:19 - Conclusion and Call to Action

Tim Winders concludes the episode by encouraging listeners to continue being true to themselves and their purpose in life.

Thank you for listening to Seek Go Create!

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Be all that you were created to be!


Transcript
Ben Wolf:

Ultimately, get your team to be a self managing team, right?

Ben Wolf:

So that you can be free to be the visionary, be the idea guy or gal,

Ben Wolf:

or be the relationship guy or gal, or the culture warrior within your

Ben Wolf:

business or the thought leader in your industry or whatever it is that

Ben Wolf:

you're, that your superpower is.

Ben Wolf:

It's about time doing that and have a leadership team that actually comes with

Ben Wolf:

batteries included, you're not pushing and pulling to get everything done because

Ben Wolf:

they won't do it without you pushing and pulling and prodding all the time.

Tim Winders:

Welcome back to seek go create.

Tim Winders:

This is Tim winders here.

Tim Winders:

I've got a question for you.

Tim Winders:

Ever felt like you're drowning in the chaos of growing your business, wishing

Tim Winders:

you had a top notch COO, but don't have a quarter of a million to spare.

Tim Winders:

If this sounds like you, then buckle up because today's episode

Tim Winders:

of Seek, Go Create is a must.

Tim Winders:

Listen, I'm thrilled to bring Ben Wolf to the show.

Tim Winders:

He's the founder of Wolf's Edge and the brains behind Fractional COOs.

Tim Winders:

Ben found himself tangled in the complexity of his own growing business,

Tim Winders:

but instead of staying stuck, He figured out a way to rise above it.

Tim Winders:

He redefined success.

Tim Winders:

That's what we like to do here at Seek Go Create.

Tim Winders:

He eventually grew his venture into the largest of its kind in his state,

Tim Winders:

but the journey inspired him to help others avoid the chaos altogether.

Tim Winders:

Today, WolfSedge provides fractional COOs to businesses across America.

Tim Winders:

Filling a significant gap in the market.

Tim Winders:

Plus he's an Amazon bestselling author with his groundbreaking book, fractional

Tim Winders:

leadership, landing executive talent.

Tim Winders:

You thought was out of reach this guy, seriously adding value to the

Tim Winders:

conversation on business leadership and growth, which is one of the things we're

Tim Winders:

all about here at seek, go create Ben.

Tim Winders:

Welcome to seek, go create.

Ben Wolf:

Thank you so much, Tim.

Ben Wolf:

It was such a beautiful introduction.

Ben Wolf:

I appreciate it.

Tim Winders:

I'm glad you're here.

Tim Winders:

We've just met somewhere, pretending a little bit here,

Tim Winders:

and I ask you what you do.

Tim Winders:

What do you say when people ask you what you do?

Ben Wolf:

I say that I have a firm of fractional chief operating officers, COOs.

Ben Wolf:

Which essentially means that when a business owner is hitting the ceiling

Ben Wolf:

and they're not able to grow anymore, they realize they need somebody who's

Ben Wolf:

actually done this before to help lead them and their team to towards the path

Ben Wolf:

of actually scaling and achieving their dreams and not being stuck in the weeds

Ben Wolf:

in the day to day of the business.

Ben Wolf:

we become that experienced executive that COO to help them

Ben Wolf:

get their business to where they want it to achieve their dreams.

Ben Wolf:

Live their highest and best value, not stuck in the weeds in the day to day

Ben Wolf:

and stuff they don't really like doing so they can live their ideal life.

Ben Wolf:

And then after nine to 18 months helping pass the baton and find a new long term

Ben Wolf:

person for that on a full time basis.

Tim Winders:

I think a lot of people will be familiar with some of those

Tim Winders:

terms, the fractional leadership, fractional executives, things like

Tim Winders:

that will define it in just a moment.

Tim Winders:

But before we do that, I want to do a backtrack.

Tim Winders:

And it seems like a cool story of how you came into this type industry and,

Tim Winders:

usually journeys are what we're all about.

Tim Winders:

we're go through this and we find out we like this or don't like

Tim Winders:

this, then we pivot or go somewhere.

Tim Winders:

And it seems like that was part of your process.

Tim Winders:

what can you share about that?

Tim Winders:

What do you want to share about that?

Tim Winders:

Just how you came to be where you are now.

Ben Wolf:

I was a corporate restructuring and bankruptcy attorney in a previous

Ben Wolf:

life at a big Manhattan law firm.

Tim Winders:

That, that sounds super exciting.

Tim Winders:

Was that exciting as it sounds?

Ben Wolf:

in certain ways it was, it was, I came into it, after the.

Ben Wolf:

The 2008 recession and, worked on some really interesting cases, high profile,

Ben Wolf:

bankruptcies of, Lehman brothers, American airlines, hospital, hospital

Ben Wolf:

systems and all kinds of things.

Ben Wolf:

So it was interesting in certain ways, but, happy that I'm not doing it anymore.

Ben Wolf:

Ended up through a very strange series of events after doing that at a healthcare

Ben Wolf:

startup that you mentioned earlier.

Ben Wolf:

in New York state and, learn how to, launch the business.

Ben Wolf:

I had to figure it out.

Ben Wolf:

I did not have an entrepreneurial background.

Ben Wolf:

As I mentioned, I was an attorney before that.

Ben Wolf:

but just learned a lot from having to do it at this company.

Ben Wolf:

I ended up at, but most of the operations there, we were over, again, zero revenue.

Ben Wolf:

I was the first full time employee.

Ben Wolf:

And by the time I left, we were 130 people and, and over a hundred

Ben Wolf:

million gross revenue and largest healthcare agency of our category

Ben Wolf:

in the entire state of New York.

Ben Wolf:

And so just learned a huge amount about, growing a five person business,

Ben Wolf:

a 50 percent 100 person or 100 plus business learned a huge amount just

Ben Wolf:

by doing and everybody there was also doing it for the first time.

Ben Wolf:

Nobody had done it before and really saw the need there for having.

Ben Wolf:

somebody who had been through this journey before, as we were figuring

Ben Wolf:

everything out for the first time.

Ben Wolf:

But after, as I left there looking for new challenges and came to a smaller

Ben Wolf:

healthcare business as COO, and it was, found myself in a very unhealthy

Ben Wolf:

environment and, came to realize after a couple of months that it was not going to

Ben Wolf:

be a situation where I was going to have a path to success and helping this company

Ben Wolf:

be successful and what it wanted to do.

Ben Wolf:

And so I put in my resignation and was thinking what.

Ben Wolf:

You know what to do next.

Ben Wolf:

I had a certain amount of PTSD of like diving in with both feet in another

Ben Wolf:

organization full time and, and I heard about this concept of doing this thing

Ben Wolf:

fractionally of doing this, doing this kind of role for multiple companies.

Ben Wolf:

I wanted to make a big impact.

Ben Wolf:

That's why I left the first business that became so successful and, just decided to.

Ben Wolf:

hang up my shingle as a fractional chief operating officer, also

Ben Wolf:

called fractional integrator.

Ben Wolf:

As a solo practitioner, I learned from tons of people.

Ben Wolf:

I did tons of networking, learned from tons of people what it takes to be

Ben Wolf:

a solo, whether you're a consultant or a fractional executive of some

Ben Wolf:

kind, or, any kind of independent professional, business developments,

Ben Wolf:

huge part of the job description.

Ben Wolf:

So I had to learn how to do that.

Ben Wolf:

And, maybe grew faster than some slower than others took me

Ben Wolf:

about 15 months to become busy.

Ben Wolf:

what I consider to be fully booked the first time.

Ben Wolf:

And after that, I guess I had hit a certain Critical mass of

Ben Wolf:

the work that I'd been doing.

Ben Wolf:

And so continue getting a lot of leads, refer them out for a while that

Ben Wolf:

eventually started to build a firm.

Ben Wolf:

And so that's, ultimately decided to build that firm.

Ben Wolf:

And I learned through this whole process.

Ben Wolf:

I talked to also lots of CF fractional CFOs and, people in fractional sales and

Ben Wolf:

marketing and finance and operations and people leadership and learned a tremendous

Ben Wolf:

amount from doing and from other people, and I saw nobody had written a book

Ben Wolf:

explaining to business owners, what this whole concept of fractional executive.

Ben Wolf:

is, you don't, you may need someone who's done this before as your CFO or

Ben Wolf:

your CMO or your VP of sales or your CTO or your CIO or your COO, but you can't

Ben Wolf:

afford that 250, 300, 000 person who's actually an executive that's really

Ben Wolf:

done this before to bring them on board.

Ben Wolf:

And maybe you don't even need that.

Ben Wolf:

That's.

Ben Wolf:

Person at your scale and size, or you can't afford it.

Ben Wolf:

So it's a great tools.

Ben Wolf:

it's a great democratizer of talent and making it available for business owners.

Ben Wolf:

But, nobody had written about it.

Ben Wolf:

I couldn't believe it.

Ben Wolf:

So I wrote the first, and I'm not the one that's been doing it the longest.

Ben Wolf:

I'm not the biggest expert, but I wrote the first book on the industry.

Ben Wolf:

And like you said, became a bestseller.

Ben Wolf:

That's, the basics of how I got into this space.

Tim Winders:

as often happens over the last few days, I read

Tim Winders:

in my normal reading style about 40 percent of it per my Kindle.

Tim Winders:

And then early this morning, I went, Ooh, I'm talking to Ben.

Tim Winders:

And then I did a super high speed reading of the remaining 60, but I agree.

Tim Winders:

it is a very good definitions.

Tim Winders:

I'm someone who understood a little bit of fractional, but it really covers a lot of

Tim Winders:

basics and a lot of good basic questions.

Tim Winders:

We'll talk about that in just a moment.

Tim Winders:

I want to get to the book a little bit later here and talk about really

Tim Winders:

the value of fractional leadership and really how it's even come to be.

Tim Winders:

So we'll get to that in just a moment.

Tim Winders:

I want to back up just a second here though.

Tim Winders:

Because there were a couple of leaps that you gave in the story

Tim Winders:

that I think I want to understand more about those leaps to me.

Tim Winders:

I've been around quite a few lawyers and so you're trained in law.

Tim Winders:

I'm sorry.

Tim Winders:

You know where I'm going here.

Tim Winders:

I'm trained in law and I've also worked a lot with startups as a

Tim Winders:

coach and executive person, myself, I've worked a lot of with startups.

Tim Winders:

And I got to tell you, Ben, I'm having trouble with someone

Tim Winders:

going from law to being the first person hired at a startup help.

Tim Winders:

There's got to be a little bit more to this.

Tim Winders:

We don't have to go into if it's ugly, we're okay with ugly too, but

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, there's,

Tim Winders:

was going on there?

Ben Wolf:

there's a couple of angles that we could go with for that story.

Ben Wolf:

one is from their perspective, like, why would they bring in

Ben Wolf:

this guy with a law background?

Ben Wolf:

But the, so that's one aspect of the story.

Ben Wolf:

The other aspect of the story is my experience, right?

Ben Wolf:

Which was that after five years there, things said, Things were getting slow

Ben Wolf:

in the corporate bankruptcy world.

Ben Wolf:

our department's billings were getting low.

Ben Wolf:

my billings were particularly low within the department.

Ben Wolf:

So a few of us, mid level or senior associates were, let go.

Ben Wolf:

And, so I lost my job and, on my 40th birthday.

Ben Wolf:

And, and so that was not fun.

Ben Wolf:

I started trying to look for.

Ben Wolf:

in house counsel jobs and other bankruptcy law firm jobs and, I had

Ben Wolf:

some progress with some of those, but, I don't want to limit, limit

Ben Wolf:

that I took the, I had a friend give me the Clifton StrengthsFinder.

Ben Wolf:

If you're familiar with that assessment

Tim Winders:

Yeah, I want to say we're very familiar here in our audience

Tim Winders:

is we've actually interviewed some experts in CliftonStrengths here.

Tim Winders:

And I love that assessment because it goes for the strengths, not just

Tim Winders:

this personality profile thing.

Tim Winders:

So yeah, we, I love that.

Tim Winders:

I just want to add that commercial in.

Ben Wolf:

yeah, no.

Ben Wolf:

So it was very interesting and it was part of me trying to get a better

Ben Wolf:

understanding of myself and what other things could I potentially, even later

Ben Wolf:

in life, think about going into that would utilize my strengths, that would

Ben Wolf:

maybe utilize more of my strengths than what I was doing in the law.

Ben Wolf:

And so I started exploring that, started to.

Ben Wolf:

I started, applying at non profit, executive director jobs, actually, either

Ben Wolf:

running small non profits or, or running regional divisions of larger ones.

Ben Wolf:

so I had a number of applications to this.

Ben Wolf:

There's a guy I met was starting in a, I don't know, I mean, he

Ben Wolf:

already had a non profit looking at someone to run it and met with

Ben Wolf:

him, had a good meeting, two hours.

Ben Wolf:

Ended up not hiring anybody, but he texts me three months later.

Ben Wolf:

I was unemployed for a total of five months.

Ben Wolf:

He texts me three months later after this meeting, Hey, yeah, whatever.

Ben Wolf:

He's just text me, we got on a phone call.

Ben Wolf:

And then by that Thursday you offered me this job.

Ben Wolf:

And so that's my part.

Ben Wolf:

And I know one of the themes on your show is, you know, and then, and then ended

Ben Wolf:

up learning and accomplishing amazing things in that role, but the, one of the.

Ben Wolf:

One of the themes I know you have in your shows show is redefining success.

Ben Wolf:

And so it was a major journey for me to think about, not feeling successful

Ben Wolf:

and like losing a job and being a man and wanting to support your

Ben Wolf:

family and not wanting to be at risk and also getting help from family.

Ben Wolf:

And that's not a fun feeling.

Ben Wolf:

it's wonderful that people could do it, but it's not fun.

Ben Wolf:

And it was, it was a scary time.

Ben Wolf:

And and to think and then, I go from that, being a, mediocre big corporate

Ben Wolf:

lawyer to, to, to being the main builder of this organization that

Ben Wolf:

got to be 130 people at the time.

Ben Wolf:

it's over 5, 500, 600 people now and multiple hundreds of millions in

Ben Wolf:

revenue, but it's, Just was a great experience that I never would have

Ben Wolf:

had and never would have been open to if I hadn't lost my job, right?

Ben Wolf:

I would not have been open minded to put myself in those situations or think,

Ben Wolf:

try to think more creatively about what I could do if it hadn't been for that.

Ben Wolf:

And circumstances Providence just put me in that situation to

Ben Wolf:

rediscover, and now I've got the yeah.

Ben Wolf:

Book on a, the first book on an entire industry and, I've leading this whole firm

Ben Wolf:

to my own business that I never would have had the bravery to start my own business.

Ben Wolf:

Or I never would have even been in the entrepreneurial world if

Ben Wolf:

it hadn't been for what happened.

Ben Wolf:

So there's not my doing, but just, Providence, the taking control

Ben Wolf:

and redefining, and forcing me to redefine success, and I could tell

Ben Wolf:

you from his perspective too, why he wanted to hire somebody like.

Ben Wolf:

Me, but that's a separate story.

Ben Wolf:

It is.

Ben Wolf:

It is.

Ben Wolf:

It is funny, but

Tim Winders:

the cool thing, have you ever thought about what your life would

Tim Winders:

be like if you were still in, in law?

Ben Wolf:

I try not to

Tim Winders:

Okay, good answer.

Tim Winders:

Good answer.

Tim Winders:

my wife and I are almost the same, Ben.

Tim Winders:

we would not wish what we went through back after 08 with our companies and all.

Tim Winders:

We wouldn't wish it on anyone, but just like we were chit chatting

Tim Winders:

before we hit record, we're living in an RV traveling right now.

Tim Winders:

We're with grandkids right close to them for the month, for the entire month.

Tim Winders:

And we know we would never be in this position had it not been for that ugly

Tim Winders:

time And but I do want to there's one thing that I popped in my head, startup

Tim Winders:

world You have to be a little bit, I'm going to use a couple of words here

Tim Winders:

that may or may not be a good fit, but I'll, maybe you'll understand.

Tim Winders:

Sometimes you have to be a little bit naive, like sometimes

Tim Winders:

almost not know you can fail.

Tim Winders:

And also you need to be pretty brash and bold.

Tim Winders:

I don't want to use the word delusional.

Tim Winders:

But that's sometimes what comes to mind to be really good.

Tim Winders:

and I know when I went through some ugly things and you mentioned you got

Tim Winders:

fired and let go from this firm, and I'm sure that was part of your identity.

Tim Winders:

If you want to use, I like to use the word identity.

Tim Winders:

I mean, we kind of get wrapped up.

Tim Winders:

That's why I ask, what do you do at the beginning of the show?

Tim Winders:

Because I like to really see where people are with, quote unquote, what

Tim Winders:

they do and their identity and all that.

Tim Winders:

And, but how was your confidence level?

Tim Winders:

Did you think you can do it?

Tim Winders:

you were stepping into something that,

Ben Wolf:

We're in the startup.

Tim Winders:

yeah.

Tim Winders:

Now looking back on it.

Tim Winders:

Obviously you and the other team, everybody y'all

Tim Winders:

nailed it or you did great.

Tim Winders:

And I know you went through a lot of bumps along the way, but

Tim Winders:

40 years old, lost your job.

Tim Winders:

You're going through all these things you're thinking about

Tim Winders:

where was your confidence level stepping into this startup

Ben Wolf:

with anything.

Ben Wolf:

I do, there's obviously the internal confidence and doubts,

Ben Wolf:

but it's about making a decision.

Ben Wolf:

if you just decide to do it, then there's no, then, it's not even a,

Ben Wolf:

like once you start something, it's not even a, it's not like confidence

Ben Wolf:

is almost an irrelevant point.

Ben Wolf:

it's really irrelevant.

Ben Wolf:

It's just, we decided to do it and success is the only option.

Ben Wolf:

So we're just going to do it.

Ben Wolf:

And there's no real thought of, there's no real thought

Ben Wolf:

of failure, of actual failure.

Ben Wolf:

you just do what you got to get, you just do what you got to do.

Ben Wolf:

There's no thought of confidence.

Ben Wolf:

you just have to, so when I was building up my solo practitioner, my

Ben Wolf:

solo fractional COO practice also, it was 15 months before I was full, of

Ben Wolf:

course I doubted, can I really do this?

Ben Wolf:

Am I ever going to get clients?

Ben Wolf:

Is this going to work?

Ben Wolf:

Of course I had those doubts.

Ben Wolf:

Whenever I got on a phone call, whenever I'm doing the business development

Ben Wolf:

things, I decided to do hit my metrics and my measurables that I set for myself.

Ben Wolf:

I didn't, there's no room for doubt.

Ben Wolf:

There's no room for.

Ben Wolf:

Looking unsure of yourself when you're actually in a conversation with anybody or

Ben Wolf:

when you're writing an email to sound meek or unsure of yourself, you just gotta,

Ben Wolf:

you just gotta fake it and act confident.

Ben Wolf:

And I can just tell you for myself, with whatever I felt on the inside, just

Ben Wolf:

acting confident and trying to do what I understood to be the right things to

Ben Wolf:

do to grow the business, ultimately.

Ben Wolf:

ultimately was, relatively successful.

Ben Wolf:

I'm, in, in my certain sub worlds that I live in, I'm pretty well known

Ben Wolf:

at this point and well respected and getting leads and referrals, multiple

Ben Wolf:

every week for our team members.

Ben Wolf:

thank God, I'm just going to fake it till you make it,

Tim Winders:

sometimes I don't want to say our backs need to be against the

Tim Winders:

wall or we need to be in a, we need to be pressed, like the olives there,

Tim Winders:

they're pressed and grapes, you press them to get what's good out of it, the

Tim Winders:

olive oil or the wine or whatever it is.

Tim Winders:

So maybe we do need to be pressed at times.

Tim Winders:

I.

Tim Winders:

I've thought this is an interesting thing and we'll talk about this and then we're

Tim Winders:

going to move into, I want to do a deep dive into fractional leadership in the

Tim Winders:

book and all, but I've often thought I, I went to Georgia Tech and I got an

Tim Winders:

industrial and systems engineering degree.

Tim Winders:

And I think back.

Tim Winders:

About how I did that and I really look back and I go, you know, that's not

Tim Winders:

what I was created to do I was created to do roughly what i'm doing now Maybe

Tim Winders:

with some variations that i'm still working on putting pieces together

Tim Winders:

and all that So so i'm going to ask you a little bit of a trick question.

Tim Winders:

Were you created to do what you're doing now?

Tim Winders:

And if so, then how did you end up going to law school because that to me

Tim Winders:

sometimes I wonder and I wonder because i've got young i've got young children

Tim Winders:

You know, my children are you know in their 20s 30s and I always wonder how

Tim Winders:

to counsel people that are attempting To do something at a young age.

Tim Winders:

So That's a little bit of the layer here it seems like law was just a doorway for

Tim Winders:

you to go through to get to something else

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, it feels that way.

Ben Wolf:

the, I think that at least looking backward, the unique set of experiences

Ben Wolf:

and skills that each of us get from whatever particular winding path

Ben Wolf:

we took to, to get where we are.

Ben Wolf:

Are, created a unique and particular set of skills, as Liam Neeson

Ben Wolf:

would say, that will, that uniquely equips us for whatever we're doing.

Ben Wolf:

And, that attention to detail, that analysis, that legal

Ben Wolf:

knowledge and background.

Ben Wolf:

And also at that startup, I also served as general counsel.

Ben Wolf:

So I, broaden the legal subjects there a little bit, but, oversaw multiple outside

Ben Wolf:

counsel, but the But it's, it just come, it just altogether puts, it puts a unique

Ben Wolf:

set of skills into a person, but, it's a different perspective when you think

Ben Wolf:

about, okay, now you're talking about your kids in their twenties and thirties

Ben Wolf:

or teens thinking what they should do.

Ben Wolf:

And, there's no, there's no career path that says, in my case.

Ben Wolf:

go to college and go to rabbinical school, then go and join a Jewish educational

Ben Wolf:

organization in Iowa for three years, and work in industrial real estate brokerage

Ben Wolf:

for two years, then go to law school as a night student, While you work full

Ben Wolf:

time in the law during the day, because you're supporting a family, then get this

Ben Wolf:

great corporate job for a bunch of years, and then go in and create a startup.

Ben Wolf:

that's not a career path that, someone can opt into, from the

Ben Wolf:

beginning, it's not anything that anybody would do, but somehow it

Ben Wolf:

all uniquely comes together to...

Ben Wolf:

to make me who I am, but all I tell my kids is, to, to, is to look to the

Ben Wolf:

best clues that they can in themselves for what they're more likely to enjoy

Ben Wolf:

or be interested in and pursue that.

Ben Wolf:

nobody knows what their future holds.

Ben Wolf:

That's really all you have to go on is your own interests and

Ben Wolf:

skills, talents, and strengths.

Ben Wolf:

So follow those wherever they lead.

Ben Wolf:

And then will it work out?

Ben Wolf:

Will it not work out?

Ben Wolf:

I don't know, but you just trust that there's some sort of providence out

Ben Wolf:

there that's going to lead you on, on the ultimate right path for yourself.

Tim Winders:

I'll say that I know we're both, I know we're both men of

Tim Winders:

faith from, I'll call it a related faith, but maybe different faiths.

Tim Winders:

And I think that the only thing that we really have some foundation with, the

Tim Winders:

only thing to really share with kids or anyone else, it's you know what, get that

Tim Winders:

foundation of faith because everything else is just, it's hard to gauge.

Tim Winders:

It could go in any direction.

Tim Winders:

and I.

Ben Wolf:

You have to have some trust.

Tim Winders:

Yeah, yeah, trust.

Tim Winders:

and one of the things that I think that bothers me in the world we're in,

Tim Winders:

you and I were just talking about this briefly, just with some current events

Tim Winders:

and just, the way the content creation and news cycle is that there's so many

Tim Winders:

people out there that speak in such a tone of definiteness of, Absolutely.

Tim Winders:

This is the way it is.

Tim Winders:

And then, a few days later, we realized that wasn't the way it was.

Tim Winders:

And, just like we're talking about our careers.

Tim Winders:

I don't know.

Tim Winders:

I'm about to be 60.

Tim Winders:

You know what?

Tim Winders:

I'm preparing for my next decade and learning a few new things and, diving

Tim Winders:

into AI and practicing some stuff and, I'm actually super intrigued

Tim Winders:

with fractional leadership from reading your book and thinking,

Tim Winders:

huh, I've actually been doing that.

Tim Winders:

So I'm, I wonder if I'm a fractional leader and, different things like

Tim Winders:

this is, and, it's just that growth thing that I think, I think a lot

Tim Winders:

of people need to latch onto it.

Tim Winders:

So let's shift a bit and let's start really diving into this

Tim Winders:

topic of fractional leadership.

Tim Winders:

I want to say that in the book, you go over some great, you really

Tim Winders:

do build just like a lawyer would you build a pretty darn good case.

Tim Winders:

Look at what we did there.

Tim Winders:

We connected the dots, didn't

Ben Wolf:

Nice, nice segue.

Tim Winders:

You built a great case for people considering it.

Tim Winders:

Some people it works for some people.

Tim Winders:

It doesn't but why don't we start off this conversation for those

Tim Winders:

that may not be familiar with it?

Tim Winders:

Why don't you give us just a you know, a nice general simple definition of

Tim Winders:

what we're talking about And then we'll start maybe zigging and zagging

Tim Winders:

and seeing where we end up with the conversation But just what is when we say

Tim Winders:

fractional leadership or fractional sea level or fractional, you know Whatever,

Tim Winders:

there's a lot of different terms.

Tim Winders:

Maybe this is a good time to hit a lot of the terms with it.

Tim Winders:

all right, ready?

Tim Winders:

Go.

Ben Wolf:

Fractional leadership or fractional executive is essentially

Ben Wolf:

the same as a regular executive at its most basic level, right?

Ben Wolf:

Because what's the difference between an executive and a consultant, right?

Ben Wolf:

Is the executive.

Ben Wolf:

Whether it's marketing, sales, operations, finance, technology,

Ben Wolf:

people, or whatnot is responsible for a major function of your business.

Ben Wolf:

They don't, they're not working on a project.

Ben Wolf:

They're not just there to give advice and give you a big report and tell

Ben Wolf:

you what to do and wish you good luck, but they are responsible for

Ben Wolf:

a major function of the business.

Ben Wolf:

If it's marketing, they're responsible for the marketing function of the business,

Ben Wolf:

all of its metrics and all of its people.

Ben Wolf:

And all of its results and same thing for operations or finance

Ben Wolf:

sales, technology, et cetera.

Ben Wolf:

And so that's what a fractional CTO, CIO, CMO, COO, et cetera.

Ben Wolf:

CFO is there your head of finance there?

Ben Wolf:

You're, and they're responsible for your people, your systems, your numbers

Ben Wolf:

in that department of your business.

Ben Wolf:

They just fulfill that role in a fractional as opposed to full time basis.

Ben Wolf:

But it's the same as a regular executive in that sense.

Ben Wolf:

And the difference is that you're able to, unless you're a very large

Ben Wolf:

organization, you're able to, afford somebody, with a much higher level of

Ben Wolf:

experience and background having done this before, than you would otherwise,

Ben Wolf:

if you were doing it full time.

Tim Winders:

All right, let me hit, I'm gonna hit some devil's

Tim Winders:

advocate, some counters to it.

Tim Winders:

It's like, how could someone do a great job in my organization if

Tim Winders:

they're not working for us full time?

Ben Wolf:

so that's a great question.

Ben Wolf:

The.

Ben Wolf:

The, it's interesting.

Ben Wolf:

I think one of the things you have to delve into to understand

Ben Wolf:

where that question comes from for, at least for most of us is.

Ben Wolf:

A perception, that comes from what I call helicopter.

Ben Wolf:

I talk about in the book helicopter management, which is this idea that,

Ben Wolf:

the way that your organization evolved and grew over time, you end up having

Ben Wolf:

a bunch of people who are maybe not the right people for their roles.

Ben Wolf:

And some who are maybe not even right for the organization at all, maybe

Ben Wolf:

toxic or whatever issues that they have are not a good work ethic or whatnot.

Ben Wolf:

And they're people issues, not enough attention to detail, not enough

Ben Wolf:

care about customers, whatever it is, they're not the right people.

Ben Wolf:

or you have processes that just developed and were added onto and

Ben Wolf:

turned into this Frankenstein's monster of processes and systems.

Ben Wolf:

that don't work, don't make sense.

Ben Wolf:

Or maybe an organizational structure that doesn't make sense.

Ben Wolf:

And you end up having, people that are not right or systems

Ben Wolf:

or processes that are not right.

Ben Wolf:

And then because you have full time managers that are hovering like a

Ben Wolf:

helicopter parent over their people and their output and whatever goes

Ben Wolf:

to customers and whatever people see.

Ben Wolf:

Or you're doing it or you have three levels of review of something

Ben Wolf:

that really should only need one.

Ben Wolf:

So because that helicopter management, you're masking all these people

Ben Wolf:

issues and these process issues.

Ben Wolf:

So you think it has to be full time because if you would take away that

Ben Wolf:

babysitting and that helicopter management, all heck would break loose.

Ben Wolf:

it wouldn't work if it's not full time.

Ben Wolf:

I think that it's important to realize that I think that kind of mindset, that's

Ben Wolf:

how a lot of businesses work because it's just like a lot of helicopter managers

Ben Wolf:

or helicopter people and babysitters.

Ben Wolf:

And when you have a fractional, what that takes away is it takes that.

Ben Wolf:

As it takes that mask away, it takes that mask away from people

Ben Wolf:

issues and takes that mask away from process and metrics issues.

Ben Wolf:

And when a fractional comes in, they're not there full time.

Ben Wolf:

They're not there to babysit.

Ben Wolf:

It's true.

Ben Wolf:

They can't babysit.

Ben Wolf:

So what they have to do is they set up meeting cadences with the relevant people

Ben Wolf:

that they supervise or the teams that they supervise, or in the case of a COO with

Ben Wolf:

the leadership team that they supervise.

Ben Wolf:

And they set up measurables to which those people are responsible.

Ben Wolf:

I set up, accountability around projects or goals or milestones, and they

Ben Wolf:

review those at that weekly cadence.

Ben Wolf:

And if stuff is not happening in between, there's nothing to cover

Ben Wolf:

it up, like the numbers are there or the milestones are met or they're not

Ben Wolf:

met or like people either doing what they're supposed to be doing or they're

Ben Wolf:

not doing it and you're not there to always save them when it doesn't work.

Ben Wolf:

When people aren't working.

Ben Wolf:

And so just brings to the forefront all these issues that

Ben Wolf:

may have been masked before that.

Ben Wolf:

and so part of the answer to your question is how do you do

Ben Wolf:

it when it's only part time?

Ben Wolf:

And the answer is through measurables through meeting

Ben Wolf:

cadences through one on ones.

Ben Wolf:

But, setting it up at a cadence, not like constant, chipping

Ben Wolf:

10 20 questions a day, right?

Ben Wolf:

But Setting that up at a healthy cadence, which honestly, actually,

Ben Wolf:

that really is what you should be doing even in full time.

Ben Wolf:

cause you're, you as a manager or leader are going to be much better

Ben Wolf:

used to yourself and your team, not to be answering 50 questions a day

Ben Wolf:

or supervising, every single proposal that goes out and every single detail.

Ben Wolf:

But, but if you're freed up from that by having good processes, good

Ben Wolf:

systems and the right people, then you could also add much more value to the

Ben Wolf:

business, even in a full time role, but certainly in fractional, like you're

Ben Wolf:

only there for the leadership part of it.

Ben Wolf:

So you are, and I think that's an important aspect.

Ben Wolf:

I think that underlies or the question when people have a hard time getting their

Ben Wolf:

head around, which is understandable how you can have an executive, a leader level.

Ben Wolf:

That's not full time.

Tim Winders:

What's interesting, I like the parenting, analogy that you use

Tim Winders:

because I was sitting here thinking, as you were saying, I was thinking about

Tim Winders:

organizations I've worked with or for and it does seem as if often the leadership,

Tim Winders:

we'll just say leadership, sometimes it's a founder, sometimes it's You know,

Tim Winders:

there's also this no man's land for a lot of companies, and I think you deal with

Tim Winders:

it, you see it, there's this place where people say, if we just have more money

Tim Winders:

and resources, we could just hire all the people we need and things will be great.

Tim Winders:

I don't know that I agree with that.

Tim Winders:

I think there needs to be a progression and the progression

Tim Winders:

needs to be, and I'm spending time right here with my granddaughter.

Tim Winders:

So they're one in four.

Tim Winders:

And I think a lot of people treat their business.

Tim Winders:

Someone treat their lives this way, as if they're dealing with babies and toddlers

Tim Winders:

when they're 21 years old and they really need to be treating them with a little

Tim Winders:

bit of just accountability, let them go do their own thing, check in, like you were

Tim Winders:

talking about process systems and things.

Tim Winders:

and I think that's a culture thing.

Tim Winders:

In fact, I think you talk about it in the book some, that there is important,

Tim Winders:

it is very important to have a culture that, And have a fractional leader and

Tim Winders:

that is open to it because you also need to have a team and a group of people that

Tim Winders:

are okay with someone coming in and out.

Tim Winders:

let's just use an example.

Tim Winders:

One day a week.

Tim Winders:

Is that seems like a good rhythm, Is that correct?

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, very often.

Tim Winders:

Yeah.

Tim Winders:

So they come in one day a week.

Tim Winders:

But so there needs to be the culture that's there that can handle it.

Tim Winders:

Talk a little bit about, you already mentioned the helicopter parent.

Tim Winders:

what type of a culture and a business would be ripe for

Tim Winders:

something like a fractional leader?

Ben Wolf:

I'll speak more to the business owner.

Ben Wolf:

because that's really the most relevant question when it comes to what culture

Ben Wolf:

is open to it, because if the business owner is, has got the right attitude

Ben Wolf:

and he, he wants to help and is, open to growth and learning and wants to

Ben Wolf:

do things better, because that's why they're bringing somebody in, right?

Ben Wolf:

Because they want something different than what they have.

Ben Wolf:

And.

Ben Wolf:

if they're behind it, if they have got a good attitude, then even if everybody else

Ben Wolf:

in the organization doesn't, it may take a while, but you'll eventually get there.

Ben Wolf:

You may have to replace most of the company, but you'll eventually get there.

Ben Wolf:

You'll eventually be successful.

Ben Wolf:

so it's really, and even if the team has got great attitude and everything, but if

Ben Wolf:

the business owner is not open minded and is not really committed to making the hard

Ben Wolf:

decisions to, Actually achieve the success that they ostensibly want, then you're not

Ben Wolf:

going to be successful, even with a great team and a great culture among the leaders

Ben Wolf:

and managers or for frontline employees.

Ben Wolf:

So there's more about the business owner and if the business

Ben Wolf:

owner is, has a certain level.

Ben Wolf:

Obviously, they have a certain level of expertise and a certain level

Ben Wolf:

of genius to have built what they build and done what they've done.

Ben Wolf:

But they have to together with that also have a level of humility and a level of

Ben Wolf:

frustration with how things are going and really a desire to want to know and do

Ben Wolf:

a better way and be open minded to that.

Ben Wolf:

I've had calls with potential clients where we get on the phone and they spend,

Ben Wolf:

or zoom and we get on the Call and hear on and on what a great team they have,

Ben Wolf:

what a great product they have, what great customers they have, what great

Ben Wolf:

processes they have, how great they are.

Ben Wolf:

And we're just like, okay, what, like, why are we on the phone then?

Tim Winders:

need, you don't need anybody.

Ben Wolf:

you don't need it.

Ben Wolf:

it sounds like you're doing good.

Ben Wolf:

No, it's always good, to tweak and you can always grow and there's

Ben Wolf:

always room for improvement.

Ben Wolf:

That sort of engagement is not going to work.

Ben Wolf:

such a person is not going to be successful with a fractional

Ben Wolf:

executive, or many things just cause they think they know it all.

Ben Wolf:

the, when it comes to having to make tough decisions or.

Ben Wolf:

evolve and change to the new reality that they're either in or that they want

Ben Wolf:

to be in, to set that up for success.

Ben Wolf:

They're not going to be willing to do it.

Ben Wolf:

and then ultimately they're not going to be successful in it.

Ben Wolf:

And they're going to probably blame you for not being successful since they had

Ben Wolf:

hired you if they would have hired you.

Ben Wolf:

so I would say it's more about the business owners, desire,

Ben Wolf:

frustration with how things are going, and desire for a better way.

Ben Wolf:

and if that's there, and there's a more or less a core values fit between,

Ben Wolf:

between the fractional executive and the business owner, that I think that you

Ben Wolf:

can overcome almost any other obstacle

Tim Winders:

Yeah.

Tim Winders:

That's interesting.

Tim Winders:

I, as you were saying that I was sitting here and thinking that

Tim Winders:

it's the same thing with me.

Tim Winders:

I call myself a coach at times.

Tim Winders:

I'm not even sure that's a good term.

Tim Winders:

I've tried to use the term strategic coach before, cause I'm more strategy and all.

Tim Winders:

And I do you talk about it in the book.

Tim Winders:

I actually find myself being part of the leadership team.

Tim Winders:

I'm Because I don't like that term consultant you talk about drive by

Tim Winders:

consultants I do think there's a time and place for consultants though

Tim Winders:

Some people need those but one of the things you do I Maybe I want to

Tim Winders:

divide up our conversation here over the next few minutes with two areas.

Tim Winders:

I want to talk about the business owner that might be considering or thinking or

Tim Winders:

might need to consider or think about it.

Tim Winders:

and what I was thinking about earlier is people that say we could use some help.

Tim Winders:

That's really the foundation for when people talk to me

Tim Winders:

and they probably talk to you.

Tim Winders:

It's you know what?

Tim Winders:

We're not perfect.

Tim Winders:

We need help.

Tim Winders:

And, and that's, I think valuable to come to that.

Tim Winders:

But let's talk about the business and just, the, I don't know if it's

Tim Winders:

levels, I don't know if it's stages that they go through that might

Tim Winders:

lead them to say, we could use this, or maybe we need to consider it.

Tim Winders:

I've actually got a client that I thought about when I was reading

Tim Winders:

the book, I'm going, they might.

Tim Winders:

Could use one in the area of sales.

Tim Winders:

we've been struggling with some things in our sales team recently let someone go,

Tim Winders:

I'm going, we actually could use, I'll call it a hired gun, but we could use

Tim Winders:

a fractional, salesperson that can come in, but go through some of those stages

Tim Winders:

and talk about stages that people might go through that might end up connecting

Tim Winders:

them to you or to a fractional person.

Ben Wolf:

stage would be that, when you just realize that you don't have.

Ben Wolf:

You don't have the knowledge or experience on your team for a particular role in the

Ben Wolf:

business, for a particular function of the business to get it where it needs to go.

Ben Wolf:

the sales example is great.

Ben Wolf:

you're, you tried this, you tried that, you tried experiments, you try taking

Ben Wolf:

a course or while learning and reading.

Ben Wolf:

And you just realize, like one of the books behind me for those watching on

Ben Wolf:

the video is called who not how, right?

Ben Wolf:

Which is.

Ben Wolf:

That, sometimes it's not the best use of your own time and energy to just learn

Ben Wolf:

a whole new thing from the ground up.

Ben Wolf:

Like sometimes, it's a better use of your energy to focus your energy on

Ben Wolf:

what you're love doing and are great at, because that's going to be, that's

Ben Wolf:

going to be where you can add hundreds of thousands, if not millions of

Ben Wolf:

dollars in value to your business is by focusing on what you're great at

Ben Wolf:

instead of taking away time from that.

Ben Wolf:

To learn everything about sales and try to be the sales leader yourself,

Ben Wolf:

bring in for eight, 10, 12, 000, whatever per month, a fractional sales

Ben Wolf:

leader to, to, who's done it before, who's built sales organizations, who

Ben Wolf:

knows about metrics and training and systems and CRMs and everything else.

Ben Wolf:

And it's like they're doing it in their sleep.

Ben Wolf:

they've done it a million times before, and.

Ben Wolf:

And you could just have all the benefit of that without having to reinvent the wheel.

Ben Wolf:

that's a, it's a good example of that.

Ben Wolf:

same thing on the CFO side.

Ben Wolf:

Again, very often when you have C, the CFO is somebody that just grew

Ben Wolf:

up in the organization and figured out how to use QuickBooks and how

Ben Wolf:

to run the numbers and everything.

Ben Wolf:

And they're not really functioning as a CFO.

Ben Wolf:

they're more of a money manager.

Ben Wolf:

They take care of AR, AP.

Ben Wolf:

bookkeeping, reconciliations, but they're not, but you're not having that financial

Ben Wolf:

leadership of, that you really need.

Ben Wolf:

And so when you get to a scale where you start to need that, you need that extra

Ben Wolf:

insight, you're throwing away tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands

Ben Wolf:

of dollars a year on waste or missing out on opportunities, or not seeing threats

Ben Wolf:

coming or not building relationships with your bank, because you just don't

Ben Wolf:

have a real financial leader that knows what an organization of your Maturity

Ben Wolf:

really needs to have to be healthy and successful and not put itself at risk.

Ben Wolf:

And so bringing that CFO has done it before again, could

Ben Wolf:

be 5, whatever per month.

Ben Wolf:

You can have a CFO, like a real CFO who's done this for multiple businesses,

Ben Wolf:

on your team, as your financial leader.

Ben Wolf:

It's a great thing.

Ben Wolf:

You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Ben Wolf:

You don't have to figure it out yourself.

Ben Wolf:

And, and that person who's good at the day to day of finance, they

Ben Wolf:

could run the day to day of finance.

Ben Wolf:

That's perfect.

Ben Wolf:

Pair up that person with the CFO.

Ben Wolf:

It's a perfect marriage.

Ben Wolf:

it's something with operations and with the COO side where we are, where we

Ben Wolf:

lead the leadership teams and we hire a lot of these other roles, whether

Ben Wolf:

full time or fractional, we're putting the right people in those roles.

Ben Wolf:

And so we're at the nexus of it all in the COO role.

Ben Wolf:

And again, it's very often the business owner has to fulfill that COO

Ben Wolf:

role, in the absence of anyone else.

Ben Wolf:

And they're, they may be great at product development, or maybe they're

Ben Wolf:

great at sales or they're great at, whatever they're great at, and

Ben Wolf:

should spend their time focused on.

Ben Wolf:

But then the day to day to the business, when you grow beyond a certain point of

Ben Wolf:

20, 30, 50 people, and you just, it just stops working, it's too complicated.

Ben Wolf:

You start getting into problems.

Ben Wolf:

You try things and they're not working.

Ben Wolf:

You try one thing, you try another thing, you're not working.

Ben Wolf:

You need someone that's built a business like yours before someone who's done

Ben Wolf:

this before, and say, then you could focus on what you do love doing, what

Ben Wolf:

you are great at and bring in an outside COO that's done this before to help lead

Ben Wolf:

your leadership team, help elevate those people so they could be the right people.

Ben Wolf:

And if they're not, I'll probably replace them with the right people.

Ben Wolf:

and.

Ben Wolf:

Ultimately, get your team to be a self managing team, right?

Ben Wolf:

So that you can be free to be the visionary, be the idea guy or gal,

Ben Wolf:

or be the relationship guy or gal, or the culture warrior within your

Ben Wolf:

business or the thought leader in your industry or whatever it is that

Ben Wolf:

you're, that your superpower is.

Ben Wolf:

It's about time doing that and have a leadership team that Actually comes with

Ben Wolf:

batteries included, you're not pushing and pulling to get everything done because

Ben Wolf:

they won't do it without you pushing and pulling and prodding all the time.

Ben Wolf:

I guess somebody else who's an expert in, in, in doing that or in setting up a

Ben Wolf:

group of people who don't need that done.

Tim Winders:

One of the things I love about it, I love testing things.

Tim Winders:

And to me, it seems like a good way to.

Tim Winders:

Test out some stuff.

Tim Winders:

Let's see what our culture is like and all that but that's not it's not the I

Tim Winders:

don't want to go Down that road right now.

Tim Winders:

I want to ask a question that I'm sure you've heard this because I hear this

Tim Winders:

all the time and i'm gonna ask it and then i'm gonna let you say how you would

Tim Winders:

respond to it or and maybe you would respond to it differently because we're

Tim Winders:

in this nice cool interview format and you're not actually You know closing a

Tim Winders:

sale or talking to anyone about it You know, you're having this conversation

Tim Winders:

and I say something to the effect of Ben, but our business is different.

Tim Winders:

We do it differently here.

Tim Winders:

We've got our own this or that, or our product is different or whatever.

Tim Winders:

And I know you've heard that I've heard it.

Tim Winders:

First of all, this might be the cool thing.

Tim Winders:

What goes through your mind when you hear somebody say that not what comes

Tim Winders:

out of your mouth, but what goes through your mind when someone says, but Ben.

Tim Winders:

Our business is different.

Ben Wolf:

all right.

Ben Wolf:

Obviously in the mind that goes through the concept of terminal

Ben Wolf:

uniqueness, 80 percent of businesses are the same, regardless of whether

Ben Wolf:

it's manufacturing or SAS companies, or retail or professional services,

Ben Wolf:

like 90 percent of running a business.

Ben Wolf:

when in right structure and vision and accountability and metrics.

Ben Wolf:

Now, what those what that vision is, what those metrics are, what that

Ben Wolf:

kind of abilities are specifically for that will be different.

Ben Wolf:

But the fact that there are those things and we just need to name

Ben Wolf:

whatever they are at each unique business is where the different.

Ben Wolf:

Differences come in and there, there are unique things.

Ben Wolf:

Of course, 20 percent of businesses are different.

Ben Wolf:

And, and so there are unique things that are different in your business

Ben Wolf:

than anybody else's, or your customer, your product, or your clients and

Ben Wolf:

customers than any other business.

Ben Wolf:

But what I say out loud to the, to answer that question is that what a fractional

Ben Wolf:

If they're good and like my team is adept at is marrying together their experience

Ben Wolf:

running businesses and managing teams and setting vision and driving execution

Ben Wolf:

towards whatever the unique visions of each of those businesses are most

Ben Wolf:

of that is the same and similar and marrying that experience together with

Ben Wolf:

learning from you guys, learning from the business owner and the other members

Ben Wolf:

of the team, the unique things of their business and Not, usurping or replacing

Ben Wolf:

your knowledge of your customers, your product and your team with ours, because

Ben Wolf:

it is going to be unique in some ways.

Ben Wolf:

And so marry you know, when we would even after a year, even after full time for

Ben Wolf:

a year, we wouldn't understand all the nuances of the business and your customers

Ben Wolf:

and your product the way you know it.

Ben Wolf:

We would never accomplish anything if we had to understand

Ben Wolf:

it to the same extent you do.

Ben Wolf:

So what we do is we marry together that utilization of the wisdom in you and

Ben Wolf:

your leadership team and marrying that together with our experience about what

Ben Wolf:

works and what doesn't work and how you have to build a business and what things

Ben Wolf:

are important so we're not reinventing wheels and marry those two things

Ben Wolf:

together and then drive execution on it.

Ben Wolf:

And that's essentially how we do it and why we're able to start making changes in

Ben Wolf:

business and making an impact within the first few weeks, even though, we don't

Ben Wolf:

know everything about the business within that amount of time, but we don't need

Ben Wolf:

to, we marry together your experience and your knowledge with our background

Ben Wolf:

and our experience connected to together.

Tim Winders:

So another thing being someone who lives a little

Tim Winders:

bit of a different lifestyle, we get the question all the time.

Tim Winders:

Why would you, live in a motor coach and travel and because the fractional

Tim Winders:

leader is a little bit different than tradition, we'll call it.

Tim Winders:

I'll ask you this way, this is something that as I was reading through the portion

Tim Winders:

of the book I was deeply reading, not scanning, I was thinking what I really

Tim Winders:

wanted to ask you was, especially because you see a number of them, tell me what

Tim Winders:

you can about the mindset, not the technical skills or the skills or even

Tim Winders:

the background of a fractional leader.

Tim Winders:

But tell me about the mindset of someone who has an interest in being

Tim Winders:

a fractional leader because that, that to me, that seems fascinating.

Tim Winders:

and if you say, no, it's not that fascinating, we'll move on.

Tim Winders:

But to me, it seems fascinating to take this group of people that's, that

Tim Winders:

are saying, I have either done certain things in my life and I want to move

Tim Winders:

forward and do it with three, four, five.

Tim Winders:

Companies or whatever and work here one day here one day maybe all virtually

Tim Winders:

but still So does that is that an okay question to ask about the mindset and

Tim Winders:

is that something you can speak to?

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, sure.

Ben Wolf:

I would say that there's the people who go into this, who do this does three main

Ben Wolf:

benefits that they want from it or that they feel drawn to, which I call more

Ben Wolf:

fun, more flexibility and more money.

Ben Wolf:

So it's more fun for them, at least, again, everyone has different interests,

Ben Wolf:

but more fun for them because they, get to work with different companies every day.

Ben Wolf:

There's more variety because they're fractional, not full time.

Ben Wolf:

They get pulled in a lot less into the boring parts and the administrative stuff.

Ben Wolf:

And they really get to operate much more at a higher level with the

Ben Wolf:

businesses that they work with, and they get to make a major impact.

Ben Wolf:

Work with them for 12 or nine or 12 or 18 months, and then move on

Ben Wolf:

to the next major challenge, right?

Ben Wolf:

They see major change that they were able to drive, feel a

Ben Wolf:

lot of satisfaction from that.

Ben Wolf:

So it's more challenging, more variety.

Ben Wolf:

So it's more fun in that sense, more flexibility because you could really

Ben Wolf:

make a lot more in three days a week and fractional work than you can in

Ben Wolf:

full time of a full time executive role.

Ben Wolf:

And So you, and let's say in just three days a week of client work, so

Ben Wolf:

you can have that more flexibility, during those other two days a week, so

Ben Wolf:

to speak, of whether it's driving your kids, driving your kids to sports games

Ben Wolf:

out of town on the weekend or whatever, taking long weekends or, Conference

Ben Wolf:

or whatever, just, you could use that time or, doing business development

Ben Wolf:

and internal administrative work, but it's just, it's more flexibility.

Ben Wolf:

so people like some people like that flexibility in the, and,

Ben Wolf:

the last thing is more money.

Ben Wolf:

Like I said, you could make more in about 3 days a week of client

Ben Wolf:

work than you can full time in an executive, for most executives.

Ben Wolf:

you can make more money.

Ben Wolf:

And so people like that too.

Ben Wolf:

And that's what attracts people to it.

Ben Wolf:

I think there's a perception among some that fractional executives are

Ben Wolf:

people that like lost their corporate jobs and can't get another one.

Ben Wolf:

And so they just put themselves out as fractional.

Ben Wolf:

And there are people like that out there.

Ben Wolf:

And, they may say fractional and really they're just.

Ben Wolf:

job seekers, and they're hoping to do a rent to own situation, right?

Ben Wolf:

They're hoping it like works out and that they'll get hired

Ben Wolf:

at whoever their client is.

Ben Wolf:

so there are those out there like that, but the people who really

Ben Wolf:

want to be fractional leaders, the people I wrote my book about, were

Ben Wolf:

those who really want to do this.

Ben Wolf:

And if, I've been offered full time jobs.

Ben Wolf:

A lot of people I know have offered full time jobs.

Ben Wolf:

You're like, why in God's green earth would I ever give this up

Ben Wolf:

to like work full time again?

Ben Wolf:

Like I wouldn't.

Ben Wolf:

Never do that.

Ben Wolf:

So that's, it's almost like laughable when you, like, when you

Ben Wolf:

think people offer a full time job.

Ben Wolf:

It's thanks, but no, thanks.

Tim Winders:

I've heard the same thing about you know Someone who's like a

Tim Winders:

coach or an executive coach like me.

Tim Winders:

It's like oh can't you know lost your gig lost your job, whatever and No, but one

Tim Winders:

of the things and I think you skirted it on some of the things you just brought

Tim Winders:

up in those three items one of the things that I love that To me would be

Tim Winders:

super appealing about being a fractional leader is I think the word diversity

Tim Winders:

might be part of it, but the ability to see a lot of examples and sample a lot

Tim Winders:

more stuff, because one of the things that I feel like some of the biggest

Tim Winders:

value that I bring in with a client.

Tim Winders:

Is not the fact that I had companies and, we lost them, even though that is actually

Tim Winders:

part of my story, but the fact that I'm working with eight to 10 at one point, and

Tim Winders:

I'm learning from every one of them, and I'm taking from one, not Trade secrets,

Tim Winders:

not, nothing like that, but I'm, just taking things that worked here and saying,

Tim Winders:

this actually could work here also.

Tim Winders:

and you know what, I actually find that I enjoy interacting with

Tim Winders:

diverse, I don't even know if it's companies, people, leadership styles,

Tim Winders:

cultures, different things like that.

Tim Winders:

That's part of it too, isn't it?

Ben Wolf:

yeah, it's definitely an appeal.

Ben Wolf:

You have, we have the same benefit, obviously, and fractional

Ben Wolf:

executives have the same benefit.

Ben Wolf:

And we, with my firm, Wolf's Edge Integrators, we try to

Ben Wolf:

multiply that by having you.

Ben Wolf:

All of our team members are meeting every week and talking over a sticky

Ben Wolf:

client issues with each other.

Ben Wolf:

So we have a brain trust, of fractional COOs.

Ben Wolf:

They're all benefiting from each other.

Ben Wolf:

So we got one challenge and we'll, we'll come back to our client

Ben Wolf:

with eight different ideas and other things that have been done.

Ben Wolf:

And other companies, not just from our own experience, but from our

Ben Wolf:

colleagues experience, which is nice.

Tim Winders:

Nice.

Tim Winders:

Could I pay a couple bucks and just be a part of that?

Tim Winders:

Brain trust.

Tim Winders:

Interesting thought there.

Tim Winders:

so a couple things I want to wrap up and talk a little bit more about the

Tim Winders:

book, but before I do, there's a couple of learning points I want us to get

Tim Winders:

from you because I always love when I interact with people, it goes back to

Tim Winders:

what I just brought up, interact with people that get to see a lot of examples.

Tim Winders:

And I know you see a lot of things from companies, company leadership,

Tim Winders:

businesses, and organizations.

Tim Winders:

And then you also see a good bit, from the leaders and, your

Tim Winders:

fractional leaders that you have.

Tim Winders:

I would like for us, we've got a few minutes left here before we start

Tim Winders:

wrapping up, talking about the book as we finish up, but tell me...

Tim Winders:

A couple of things for anybody listening that are like a best

Tim Winders:

practice or a tip or something that you've picked up just from companies.

Tim Winders:

And I guess if you want to say hire a fractional leader, that would be okay.

Tim Winders:

It would be a little bit lighter than I'm looking for here.

Tim Winders:

I'm looking for something that you have learned from dealing with all the

Tim Winders:

organizations and then maybe something from all the fractional leaders.

Tim Winders:

And then, and then we'll, mention a few things about the

Tim Winders:

book before we finish up here.

Ben Wolf:

maybe what I'll share is this, one of the, you know, for people that want

Ben Wolf:

to understand what, let's say a fractional COO would be doing in their business

Ben Wolf:

and, but besides hiring one, like, how could you do some of that stuff yourself?

Ben Wolf:

What are we doing in our businesses with our clients?

Ben Wolf:

And one of the things we do, especially in the first quarter is we put

Ben Wolf:

together, we get a, we get a, A sense of what's going on, what all the

Ben Wolf:

issues are, what's the 1000 potential priorities and issues and challenges

Ben Wolf:

and all the ideas that are vying for attention and looking for priority.

Ben Wolf:

And we put together a road map during that 1st quarter of what is the actual path?

Ben Wolf:

Look like you, you say, we get clear from them what they want to

Ben Wolf:

accomplish, where they want to get to.

Ben Wolf:

And then we look, we get a clear understanding of what all the

Ben Wolf:

issues are and all the potential options and priorities are.

Ben Wolf:

And then we come up with, okay, based on our experience, what's the pathway?

Ben Wolf:

What's the.

Ben Wolf:

Roadmap to get from where you are to that destination that you want to get to.

Ben Wolf:

So we put together a roadmap template that people can use themselves

Ben Wolf:

to apply to their own business.

Ben Wolf:

If you go to WolfSedgeIntegrators.

Ben Wolf:

com forward slash resources.

Ben Wolf:

There's a roadmap there that you can download.

Ben Wolf:

It's an Excel format.

Ben Wolf:

it gives you some, ideas on a number of stages and, so you

Ben Wolf:

could fill in what applies to you.

Ben Wolf:

There's a 10 minute video instructions on how to use the roadmap for yourself.

Ben Wolf:

so that's, wolvesedgeintegrators.

Ben Wolf:

com forward slash resources.

Ben Wolf:

You can download there a roadmap that you could use yourself.

Ben Wolf:

that's one resource or tip.

Ben Wolf:

I think that it can be useful.

Ben Wolf:

Stop

Tim Winders:

Very good.

Tim Winders:

Very good.

Tim Winders:

Anything from just a leadership standpoint that you've seen from

Tim Winders:

dealing with leaders that are fractional leaders that are business owners,

Tim Winders:

anything that comes to mind that you can share this big leadership tip.

Ben Wolf:

compromising on your dreams.

Ben Wolf:

You were.

Ben Wolf:

You are like, why are you not firing the people who are not

Ben Wolf:

performing who you love, right?

Ben Wolf:

Why are you not holding people accountable for the results

Ben Wolf:

that they're supposed to get?

Ben Wolf:

Because you love them and because you're a nice guy or you're a nice gal, right?

Ben Wolf:

But presumably you're in whatever the business your business is because you

Ben Wolf:

want to make an impact in the world You have bigger dreams for yourself for your

Ben Wolf:

children for your grandchildren for your community for your customers, you have

Ben Wolf:

some bigger dreams for yourself and you're enslaving yourself to mediocrity into

Ben Wolf:

a life of babysitting, by not, by not taking your own dreams more seriously.

Ben Wolf:

And so I guess I would just say, stop being so nice because you are.

Ben Wolf:

Because your niceness sometimes is really cruelty because you're robbing

Ben Wolf:

yourself and your spouse and your children and the world and your

Ben Wolf:

customers of whatever your mission and your dreams are for your business.

Ben Wolf:

And, for the short term avoidance of hard conversations and hard decisions

Ben Wolf:

because you're such a nice person.

Tim Winders:

Stop being so nice.

Tim Winders:

You heard it

Ben Wolf:

Stop being so nice and take your dreams seriously.

Ben Wolf:

Make hard decisions.

Tim Winders:

Yeah, no, I think it's a, yeah, I like that.

Tim Winders:

Be mature, have mature conversations, mature decisions.

Tim Winders:

I like that.

Tim Winders:

The book is fractional leadership, landing executive talent.

Tim Winders:

You thought was out of reach.

Tim Winders:

Then who should get ahold of this book?

Tim Winders:

I enjoyed the heck out of it.

Tim Winders:

I thought it was a great read, but I'd love for you to tell us who should go

Tim Winders:

get it and then maybe lead into where they could find it and things like that.

Tim Winders:

And we'll gather.

Tim Winders:

A few more questions before we wrap up here.

Ben Wolf:

The book is for well, it's written for business owners.

Ben Wolf:

So first and foremost, anybody with a business If you've got some kind of

Ben Wolf:

gap on your leadership team, right?

Ben Wolf:

you or somebody else is sitting in multiple seats or you have somebody

Ben Wolf:

on the leadership team or you have some, no, nobody that's filling certain

Ben Wolf:

seats, important functions of your business, or you've got the wrong person

Ben Wolf:

potentially, or an underperforming person in certain roles in their business.

Ben Wolf:

that's, you should read it.

Ben Wolf:

it's, using someone fractionally, not necessarily needing somebody for you.

Ben Wolf:

Maybe full time will work, but, might not.

Ben Wolf:

And so it's worth learning about, whether you can fill that gap or replace

Ben Wolf:

that underperforming person with.

Ben Wolf:

or replace yourself.

Ben Wolf:

If you're that underperforming person, in a certain role in the

Ben Wolf:

business, if you're sitting in two or three seats and, potentially the

Ben Wolf:

fractional to explore it that way.

Ben Wolf:

I have been told by a lot of fractional executives, whether part

Ben Wolf:

of firms or solo practitioners.

Ben Wolf:

That they've got, that even though the business owners are the target audience,

Ben Wolf:

so to speak, of the book, but that's who it's officially written to, but that

Ben Wolf:

they've gotten a lot of value from it and understanding the fractional role better

Ben Wolf:

or understanding if they want to go into a fractional role or if they're already

Ben Wolf:

in it to get a better understanding of it.

Ben Wolf:

Better understanding of it or to get terms and ideas and ways of explaining things.

Ben Wolf:

Maybe that you struggled with explaining when people asked you questions.

Ben Wolf:

I've been told a lot that it was very helpful in giving people words

Ben Wolf:

to explain concepts that they knew, but had a difficult time explaining.

Tim Winders:

Okay.

Tim Winders:

I can find it, I guess, wherever books are available and

Ben Wolf:

Yeah.

Ben Wolf:

it's look, Amazon, it's audible, Kindle, a paperback hardcover,

Ben Wolf:

whatever format you want it.

Ben Wolf:

It's, it's available.

Tim Winders:

Sure.

Tim Winders:

Tell us about the podcast.

Tim Winders:

Win win.

Tim Winders:

Is that the name?

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, win win, the win win podcast, our theme is anything that

Ben Wolf:

gives value for small and mid sized business owners, that's really our

Ben Wolf:

theme, so it's a wide variety of things that would give value to those kind

Ben Wolf:

of business owners, it's not really focused on personal growth, except as

Ben Wolf:

it applies to business owners, it's not really focused on things that would be

Ben Wolf:

only applicable to solo practitioners or people in large corporate environments.

Ben Wolf:

It's really small and mid sized business owners or leaders.

Ben Wolf:

That's who it's applicable for anything that we give value for them.

Ben Wolf:

And we had Chris Voss recently from never split the difference on the show.

Ben Wolf:

and Marcus Sheridan from they ask you answer, a lot of really good people.

Tim Winders:

Yeah, I think I listened to some of that Chris Foss.

Tim Winders:

That was really good.

Tim Winders:

I actually watched it on YouTube.

Tim Winders:

So y'all have YouTube just like we do and we're calling these podcasts, but now

Tim Winders:

they're just There's content out there.

Tim Winders:

If someone just wanted to connect with you Ben, where do you want to direct them?

Tim Winders:

Where should they go if they just want to get with you either?

Tim Winders:

I don't know if you want to go to linkedin website, whatever just tell us that

Ben Wolf:

LinkedIn works.

Ben Wolf:

Yeah, just let LinkedIn.

Ben Wolf:

LinkedIn is perfect.

Ben Wolf:

If it's for me, if it's anything about WolfSedgeIntegrators.

Ben Wolf:

com, there's a lot of good information there.

Ben Wolf:

A lot of FAQs, videos, long blogs and videos that just

Ben Wolf:

answer your major questions.

Ben Wolf:

but, but if it's to connect with me, LinkedIn is the best.

Tim Winders:

Excellent.

Tim Winders:

Ben, we're Seek, Go, Create, those three words that we mashed

Tim Winders:

together for this podcast title.

Tim Winders:

I'm going to let you pick one of those as my last question, Seek, Go, or Create.

Tim Winders:

Which word, I don't know, means more to you, resonates with you

Tim Winders:

more than the other two, and why?

Ben Wolf:

I don't know if everybody says this, but it's

Ben Wolf:

create, it's, building big things.

Ben Wolf:

that's what I enjoy is, is building things, building teams,

Ben Wolf:

building my company, building other people's companies,

Ben Wolf:

creation's what resonates with me.

Tim Winders:

Very good.

Tim Winders:

Not everyone says that.

Tim Winders:

It's actually...

Tim Winders:

Pretty evenly divided.

Tim Winders:

It really is.

Tim Winders:

Ben Wolf, thanks for joining us on Seek, Go Create.

Tim Winders:

This has been a great conversation.

Tim Winders:

Loved the conversation about fractional leadership, and I highly recommend

Tim Winders:

if you've, if you're listening in, go get the book, Fractional Leadership,

Tim Winders:

especially if you don't know much about it or want to know more, it is a great

Tim Winders:

read and it's perfect to get educated and understand what it is and how it

Tim Winders:

might benefit you and your organization, if you lead an organization, and then

Tim Winders:

also check out Win Win, the podcast.

Tim Winders:

Think that would be a great place to jump right when you're finishing

Tim Winders:

up here, because you're already on your podcast player and you can go

Tim Winders:

over, I think it's great compliment.

Tim Winders:

I listened to some of the things there and it is a great compliment

Tim Winders:

to what we're doing here.

Tim Winders:

So thanks for joining us.

Tim Winders:

We have new episodes every Monday until next time here at seek,

Tim Winders:

go create, continue being all that you were created to be.

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Seek Go Create
Seek Go Create
Redefining Success in Leadership, Business & Ministry

About your host

Profile picture for Tim Winders

Tim Winders

Tim Winders is a faith driven executive coach and author with over 40 years of experience in leadership, business, and ministry. Through his personal journey of redefining success, he has gained valuable insights on how to align beliefs with work and lead with purpose. He is committed to helping others do the same, running a coaching business that helps leaders, leadership teams, business owners, and entrepreneurs to align their beliefs with their work and redefine success.

In addition to his coaching business, Tim is also the host of the SeekGoCreate podcast and author of the book Coach: A Story of Success Redefined, which provides guidance for those looking to redefine success and align their beliefs with their work. With his extensive background, unique perspective and strengths in strategic thinking, relationship building, and problem-solving, Tim is well-suited to help clients navigate through difficult times and achieve their goals.