Finding Faith in Failure: A Real Estate Entrepreneur's Path to Renewal and Resilience with Mike Morawski

Mike Morawski: 00:00:00

don't let these people beat you.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:02

All we want to do is take from you.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:03

Everything you've ever known, everything that you've ever had.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:06

They can take your business, your apartments, they can destroy your

Mike Morawski: 00:00:10

family, but what they can't take is who you are and what you're made of.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:14

They can't take your passion.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:15

They can't take your desire and they can't take your knowledge because

Mike Morawski: 00:00:19

you can go get all that back.

Mike Morawski: 00:00:21

He goes, you go build another a hundred million dollar company.

Tim Winders: 00:00:41

Welcome to Seek, Go Create.

Tim Winders: 00:00:43

This is your host, Tim Winders.

Tim Winders: 00:00:44

I'm an executive coach.

Tim Winders: 00:00:46

Work with leaders and leadership teams.

Tim Winders: 00:00:48

I am currently in the passenger seat of the RV in, uh, Kind of in

Tim Winders: 00:00:53

the Black Hills of South Dakota, just talking with our guest.

Tim Winders: 00:00:55

he's a biker and, Sturgis week is going on for those that are aware.

Tim Winders: 00:01:00

500, pile in and around us here in the RV, we've got some motorcycles.

Tim Winders: 00:01:07

So you may hear that low rumble of a Harley Davidson in the background

Tim Winders: 00:01:12

during this podcast, but that's okay.

Tim Winders: 00:01:14

We're here.

Tim Winders: 00:01:15

We're here to have some fun.

Tim Winders: 00:01:16

I've got a great guest.

Tim Winders: 00:01:18

We're going to be talking about some real estate success and redefining success.

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What that means.

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Got somebody that's got a lot of experience.

Tim Winders: 00:01:26

And so I'm looking forward to it.

Tim Winders: 00:01:28

Let's jump right in.

Tim Winders: 00:01:29

I've got Mike Murawski.

Tim Winders: 00:01:30

He helps busy professionals create passive income and grow generational wealth.

Tim Winders: 00:01:36

He's a trainer and coach for real estate investors.

Tim Winders: 00:01:38

public speaker, and he's the host of the insider secrets podcast.

Tim Winders: 00:01:43

He's also an author.

Tim Winders: 00:01:44

He's got a lot of things going on.

Tim Winders: 00:01:45

He's got 30 plus years of real estate experience.

Tim Winders: 00:01:50

And listen to this.

Tim Winders: 00:01:51

He's got over, I think he's controlled roughly 285 million in real estate

Tim Winders: 00:01:55

and real estate transactions.

Tim Winders: 00:01:56

Mike, welcome to seek, go create.

Mike Morawski: 00:01:59

Thanks, Tim.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:00

Appreciate being here and super excited after our initial conversation here.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:04

So

Tim Winders: 00:02:05

Yeah, I am too.

Tim Winders: 00:02:06

And maybe, and I know you won't, it won't bother you one bit if you hear

Tim Winders: 00:02:08

that little boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom rumble in the background, will

Mike Morawski: 00:02:11

I may break out in a sweat or something, but

Tim Winders: 00:02:14

I see on your shelf behind you got a couple

Tim Winders: 00:02:16

of motorcycles on the shelf for those that are watching the video.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:20

yeah,

Tim Winders: 00:02:21

Cycler, good.

Tim Winders: 00:02:22

Very cool.

Tim Winders: 00:02:23

listen, let's, let's jump right in.

Tim Winders: 00:02:24

We, we have just met.

Tim Winders: 00:02:26

But, let's just say you bump into somebody out and about on an airplane or something

Tim Winders: 00:02:30

like that, and they ask you what you do.

Tim Winders: 00:02:33

What's your response?

Mike Morawski: 00:02:34

yeah, I'm a huge networker too.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:36

So this is a great question.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:37

I, I think everybody needs to know their elevator pitch, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:02:41

I'm the chief investment officer for a multifamily hedge fund.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:45

We buy large apartment complexes in specific markets.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:49

Partner with people like yourself and sharing the profits.

Mike Morawski: 00:02:53

So that's something you'd be interested in.

Tim Winders: 00:02:56

I love the question there at the end.

Tim Winders: 00:02:58

It's man, let's decide if we need to keep talking or not.

Tim Winders: 00:03:01

that was a great model for people listening in of a great elevator pitch.

Tim Winders: 00:03:06

I bet you've said that a few times

Mike Morawski: 00:03:09

I have said that a few times.

Tim Winders: 00:03:11

you mentioned you're a networker.

Tim Winders: 00:03:12

Tell me, let's go and dive into a little bit here.

Tim Winders: 00:03:14

Networking.

Tim Winders: 00:03:16

Is it something that you've always done?

Tim Winders: 00:03:17

Did you teach yourself or are you, is it just a natural or what is that?

Tim Winders: 00:03:22

What does that look like for you?

Mike Morawski: 00:03:25

Yeah.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:25

I think truly, I think I'm an introvert.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:28

I've never been a guy to go up to a girl in a bar and try and pick up a girl.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:34

I've always had that trepidation, that little bit of fear, but.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:38

I love to go to these networking events and just meet people

Mike Morawski: 00:03:42

and walk up to people.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:43

and what I really liked Tim is I like when I'm speaking at an

Mike Morawski: 00:03:46

event and I work the room before I speak and they'll have a picture.

Mike Morawski: 00:03:52

Like I was just at an event this week that I was speaking at, it was a luncheon

Mike Morawski: 00:03:57

and they had a picture of me and a little blurb on the screen and I'm talking

Mike Morawski: 00:04:03

to somebody and they went, Like this.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:05

anyway, hey, you're the speaker.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:08

I love that, but yeah, it's just, it's an icebreaker.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:12

and the people I really love to network with are the ones where you

Mike Morawski: 00:04:16

look at them across the room and they got their face buried in a phone.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:20

and they're supposed to be at a networking event meeting each other.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:22

And those are the people I always walk up to.

Mike Morawski: 00:04:25

Hey, hate to interrupt you, but

Tim Winders: 00:04:29

Yeah, the interesting thing about that, my wife and

Tim Winders: 00:04:31

I are fascinated by that too.

Tim Winders: 00:04:32

We've got, we're recording this on a Friday.

Tim Winders: 00:04:35

We've got a date night.

Tim Winders: 00:04:36

We're going out tonight and we'll go places and you see people, actually

Tim Winders: 00:04:40

we start to see people our age.

Tim Winders: 00:04:41

You and I would be more in the mature category, I believe.

Tim Winders: 00:04:44

we're both in that boomer generation.

Tim Winders: 00:04:46

I'm on the very end of it and it's fascinating to go out.

Tim Winders: 00:04:50

See two people on what they might be calling a date.

Tim Winders: 00:04:53

Like you just mentioned networking where they're supposed to be

Tim Winders: 00:04:55

getting around other people, but yet they're both on their phones.

Tim Winders: 00:04:59

And, I don't know that kind of bothers me a little bit.

Tim Winders: 00:05:01

What's your thoughts when you see that?

Mike Morawski: 00:05:03

Yeah, I'm a big people watcher too, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:05:05

So I do the same thing.

Mike Morawski: 00:05:06

I'll see people, they'll sit there all night having dinner with each other

Mike Morawski: 00:05:10

and don't say two words to each other.

Mike Morawski: 00:05:13

And it's really, where is that at?

Mike Morawski: 00:05:16

and I'm not trying to be critical, I think part of that is that, I have this

Mike Morawski: 00:05:19

relationship with Jesus today in my life.

Mike Morawski: 00:05:22

And, I've learned over the years that You know, this kind of thing

Mike Morawski: 00:05:27

that we're doing right now, Tim, is more important than anything else,

Tim Winders: 00:05:32

Yeah, I agree.

Tim Winders: 00:05:32

It's that heart piece.

Tim Winders: 00:05:34

and I think these devices are great tools.

Tim Winders: 00:05:36

I know you probably use the heck out of them in your business.

Tim Winders: 00:05:39

I do in my business, we're on one of these tools right now.

Tim Winders: 00:05:43

And it's allowing people to listen in on these tools, but I think

Tim Winders: 00:05:47

some people become slaves to them instead of making them a slave to us.

Tim Winders: 00:05:51

I don't, I've got this, maybe this Holy Spirit, but I want to dig a little bit

Tim Winders: 00:05:55

more on this networking because I had this thought because I do notice some

Tim Winders: 00:06:00

people that are really, really good at it.

Tim Winders: 00:06:03

I think some people do it.

Tim Winders: 00:06:06

For various reasons and all that.

Tim Winders: 00:06:08

But what, when you're networking, do you have a motive or an agenda or something

Tim Winders: 00:06:14

going through your mind as you're, I hate to say working a room that sounds

Tim Winders: 00:06:18

manipulative, but you're, you go in a room that's got 20, 30, 50 people in it.

Tim Winders: 00:06:23

And, you were obviously teaching and speaking.

Tim Winders: 00:06:25

So you had a purpose to be there, but what is, what's your general

Tim Winders: 00:06:29

thought when you go into a situation like that about other people?

Mike Morawski: 00:06:33

Yeah, great.

Mike Morawski: 00:06:34

that's a great question.

Mike Morawski: 00:06:35

one of my companies is my core intentions, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:06:38

I think we have to be intentional about everything we do.

Mike Morawski: 00:06:40

So if I'm in an event that I'm speaking at, my intention is to

Mike Morawski: 00:06:45

know the room before I get on stage.

Mike Morawski: 00:06:47

I want to know my audience.

Mike Morawski: 00:06:49

So I want to tailor my talk a little bit to who's there and, how detailed can I

Mike Morawski: 00:06:55

get or how broad do I have to be right?

Mike Morawski: 00:06:58

the other aspect is, Tony Robbins, said at one time I had heard him say

Mike Morawski: 00:07:05

that you're only one person away.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:08

and take that in any context.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:10

you may be, maybe, you know about the six laws of separation,

Mike Morawski: 00:07:14

six degrees of separation.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:16

You are only six people away from anybody you wanna meet in the world.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:21

so how do you get to that person, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:07:23

You only get there because, You learn about this person.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:28

I'm a big, tell me about yourself.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:31

I don't, there's that old joke, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:07:33

Enough about me.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:34

What else do you want to know about me?

Mike Morawski: 00:07:36

I'm not like that at all.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:38

I want to know about you.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:39

And I truly want to know about you.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:41

I want to know what makes you tick, what you're, where your heart's at.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:45

and see if there's a connection.

Mike Morawski: 00:07:47

Tim, you and I got on this, we had never met before and there was, we

Mike Morawski: 00:07:51

could, I could tell there's going to be an instant connection between us,

Tim Winders: 00:07:55

So Mike, have you always been that way or have you developed?

Tim Winders: 00:07:58

Here's the reason why I asked that I was pretty hard charger.

Tim Winders: 00:08:01

I grew up into the business world in the eighties, which was

Tim Winders: 00:08:04

go, go, go money, money, money.

Tim Winders: 00:08:06

And I had a lot of that was baked in me.

Tim Winders: 00:08:08

And so when I started doing some business in the late eighties,

Tim Winders: 00:08:12

early nineties, I did a network marketing for a little while.

Tim Winders: 00:08:15

That's actually where I got saved.

Tim Winders: 00:08:17

So I don't say anything negative about it, but.

Tim Winders: 00:08:20

I recognized as I networked that often, and I was pretty good at it

Tim Winders: 00:08:25

because I'm outgoing and all that, but often I looked at people as if they

Tim Winders: 00:08:30

had a dollar sign on their foreheads.

Tim Winders: 00:08:33

And I'm not saying, I'm not saying that because I'm proud of it, I've

Tim Winders: 00:08:35

recognized it and I wasn't looking at them for their potential or,

Tim Winders: 00:08:41

what can I do for them as much?

Tim Winders: 00:08:42

It might have been a little bit more trying to impress versus inspire,

Tim Winders: 00:08:46

trying to sell instead of share.

Tim Winders: 00:08:48

And those are some things that I've had to come to terms with.

Tim Winders: 00:08:51

But what's your, have you always.

Tim Winders: 00:08:54

Been in the role you're in now, or have you matured into it?

Tim Winders: 00:08:56

Have you learned, did you make some mistakes along the way?

Tim Winders: 00:08:59

I think this is valuable conversation for people because it's powerful.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:03

Yeah.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:04

Listen, I've made my share of mistakes, some small, some big, no doubt about that.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:09

but just like you said, I've been in real estate 30 years and when I went in

Mike Morawski: 00:09:13

the business, I was on the sales side.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:15

So as a residential sales agent, Tim, my first nine months in

Mike Morawski: 00:09:19

the business, I did 78 deals.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:22

I was remaxed rookie of the year.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:24

And, here's what happened though.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:26

It was churn and burn.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:28

I knew, so I was in the business for 15 years and I knew that every time

Mike Morawski: 00:09:34

I picked up the telephone, I made 20.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:36

Every time I dialed the telephone, I made 20, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:09:40

I made 20, 000 phone calls a year.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:43

Your listeners can do the math on that.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:46

And, it was churn and burn.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:48

It took me three years before somebody said, do you have a database?

Mike Morawski: 00:09:52

I'm like a what, I didn't keep track of anybody.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:55

I didn't know anybody.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:56

I didn't.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:57

And, so here's where it made sense to me.

Mike Morawski: 00:09:59

I'm in the grocery store one day and I see a client that I had a year and a half, two

Mike Morawski: 00:10:05

years before she says, Oh, you're going to have to come by the new house for dinner.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:11

We just moved.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:12

I'm like, what?

Mike Morawski: 00:10:13

I go, you just bought your house?

Mike Morawski: 00:10:15

She goes, yeah, we looked for you.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:16

We couldn't find you, but we bought a bigger house, and sold

Mike Morawski: 00:10:21

the house that we bought with you.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:24

And I was like, Then I had to figure out, how does that never happen again?

Mike Morawski: 00:10:29

Because I just lost.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:31

About 700, 000 worth of business, but it was a learning experience.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:37

But like you said, man, early on people had a dollar sign on them.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:42

It was, I was probably in the business five years before I really started

Mike Morawski: 00:10:46

to build relationships with people.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:48

And then when I went the apartment business, that's when I really started to.

Mike Morawski: 00:10:54

To see more and more that I needed to have deeper relationships with people.

Tim Winders: 00:10:59

Yeah, because you don't, we'll get to that later.

Tim Winders: 00:11:02

I want to talk about some other things before we get into the multifamily aspect,

Tim Winders: 00:11:05

but that's not a churn and burn business.

Tim Winders: 00:11:08

some, you know, the real estate is transactional for a lot of people.

Tim Winders: 00:11:12

And even we did single family homes and I was turning a lot of that early on,

Tim Winders: 00:11:17

but the multifamily, those are bigger kind of longer legged transactions.

Tim Winders: 00:11:21

And you've got to be comfortable with all the parties involved.

Tim Winders: 00:11:25

Correct.

Mike Morawski: 00:11:26

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Tim Winders: 00:11:27

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:11:28

follow up question.

Tim Winders: 00:11:28

I'm loving this conversation on networking because there's a piece I want to

Tim Winders: 00:11:31

mention something to the audience.

Tim Winders: 00:11:33

There was a conversation on an episode that probably if you back up a few, if

Tim Winders: 00:11:38

you're listening in here with a Mark Slabaugh that we had this conversation

Tim Winders: 00:11:41

where he said something to the effect of.

Tim Winders: 00:11:44

You're not going to make significant change in your life.

Tim Winders: 00:11:46

If you're hanging out with the same group of people you've always hung

Tim Winders: 00:11:49

out with, he said, you've got to change your network to make changes.

Tim Winders: 00:11:52

And to me, this relates to that.

Tim Winders: 00:11:53

You to continue moving forward and growing.

Tim Winders: 00:11:57

You have to grow, but yet it's not just that churn and burn.

Tim Winders: 00:12:00

So the follow up question I've got for you, because you mentioned

Tim Winders: 00:12:03

you're a follower of Jesus early on, where were you at spiritually

Tim Winders: 00:12:07

early on, because I had been saved.

Tim Winders: 00:12:10

but that transformation process was still going on.

Tim Winders: 00:12:14

I still had two feet in the world system and, I was just dipping my

Tim Winders: 00:12:17

hand barely into that baptismal pool to get reborn and all of that.

Tim Winders: 00:12:22

I don't think my heart had been transformed to look at

Tim Winders: 00:12:25

people the way I needed to.

Tim Winders: 00:12:27

Where were you at spiritually?

Tim Winders: 00:12:28

And maybe this will be a good time to back up and see, your

Tim Winders: 00:12:31

spiritual background and all.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:33

you're asking some tough questions today, Tim.

Tim Winders: 00:12:36

Oh yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:12:37

Come on now.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:38

so I got baptized and sobered up in 1983.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:44

I went into real estate in 1991.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:46

So let me just, date this a little bit.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:50

But I was a pocket Christian.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:53

So what I mean by that is I pulled God out of my pocket when

Mike Morawski: 00:12:56

I was in a jam and I needed help.

Mike Morawski: 00:12:59

Help me out of this.

Mike Morawski: 00:13:01

it's like you're getting pulled over by the police for a speeding ticket and you

Mike Morawski: 00:13:04

go, Oh my God, Jesus, please help me.

Mike Morawski: 00:13:06

but it wasn't till a number of years later that I really, had decided

Mike Morawski: 00:13:14

to build a relationship with Jesus.

Tim Winders: 00:13:18

And then that probably started spilling over into how

Tim Winders: 00:13:23

you perceived other people.

Tim Winders: 00:13:24

It did for me.

Tim Winders: 00:13:25

I think you probably started, I'll use the term your heart started softening to

Tim Winders: 00:13:29

other people versus looking in the mirror.

Tim Winders: 00:13:32

Thinking about it's all about you.

Tim Winders: 00:13:34

is that kind of your

Mike Morawski: 00:13:36

100%.

Mike Morawski: 00:13:37

100%.

Mike Morawski: 00:13:37

Yeah,

Tim Winders: 00:13:38

so fascinating.

Tim Winders: 00:13:39

So 1983 seems like a real pivot.

Tim Winders: 00:13:43

we talk about redefining success here on seek, go create.

Tim Winders: 00:13:47

Obviously we've all been through it.

Tim Winders: 00:13:49

I think people that say they haven't gone through significant

Tim Winders: 00:13:51

change, catalytic events.

Tim Winders: 00:13:53

I really would like to know more about them.

Tim Winders: 00:13:55

Cause I don't see how that can happen in this world we're in, but,

Tim Winders: 00:13:58

But you're in, are you in Chicago?

Tim Winders: 00:14:00

Is that right?

Mike Morawski: 00:14:01

I am.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:01

Yeah, I live in Chicago.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:02

I've been here my whole life.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:03

I'm about ready to hang up my snow shovel, though.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:06

I'll tell you then, Scottsdale and Vegas are looking pretty good.

Tim Winders: 00:14:10

it's a beautiful day here where we are.

Tim Winders: 00:14:11

And my wife and I were just booking our winter travel.

Tim Winders: 00:14:14

And we're thinking about Arizona is where we're looking down like

Tim Winders: 00:14:17

Casa Grande or something like that.

Tim Winders: 00:14:19

So we were excited about looking at that, that area.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:22

Grande is a beautiful area.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:24

We're actually building a development there.

Tim Winders: 00:14:26

Oh, nice.

Tim Winders: 00:14:27

Very good.

Tim Winders: 00:14:28

tell me more.

Tim Winders: 00:14:29

Let's go ahead and let's dive into a little bit of the redefining success.

Tim Winders: 00:14:33

Sounds like 83 was a big year and 91 was a big year, whichever one you want

Tim Winders: 00:14:38

to choose, but, just tell a little bit more about the redefinition or the

Tim Winders: 00:14:43

transition, whatever occurred there.

Tim Winders: 00:14:45

And I'll just let you share whatever you feel, knowing that

Tim Winders: 00:14:48

our audience can handle the deeper stuff too, if you want to go there.

Mike Morawski: 00:14:53

Yeah, listen, 83, I was in the construction business, new

Mike Morawski: 00:14:57

entrepreneur or newer entrepreneur doing everything, hiring, firing,

Mike Morawski: 00:15:02

bookkeeping, marketing, sales and still banging nails in the field, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:15:07

And I went from one, one helper working with me to having 25 employees and

Mike Morawski: 00:15:14

trucks and heavy equipment, 1990 and 83 was a pivotal year in my life.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:21

My dad got murdered.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:23

I became a Christian.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:25

and I sobered up.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:26

it wasn't, and it didn't all happen in that order.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:28

I sobered up, I became a Christian and my dad got murdered in that

Mike Morawski: 00:15:32

order, but in 91, I was burned out.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:36

I woke up one morning and I looked at my wife at the time and I said, I'm done.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:41

I can't do this anymore.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:43

I, luckily I had somebody knocking at my door to buy my company.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:46

So we sold the company and said, let's take a year off.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:50

any good entrepreneur never takes time off, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:15:53

You're always spinning, doing something.

Mike Morawski: 00:15:56

We went and bought a couple of two flats and, And, house hacked

Mike Morawski: 00:16:00

them and house hacked them long before house hacking was sexy.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:04

and people do it all the time now, but back then people

Mike Morawski: 00:16:07

thought, what are you crazy?

Mike Morawski: 00:16:08

What are you doing?

Mike Morawski: 00:16:09

So it was a different environment.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:12

But I learned an important lesson.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:14

So Jim Rohn, I, been following Jim Rohn and Zig Ziglar at that time.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:18

And Jim Rohn said, success leaves clues.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:22

And I always grabbed, gravitated to that.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:24

So I met this real estate agent who was extremely successful, said,

Mike Morawski: 00:16:28

Hey, I want to go into business.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:30

He said, I think you'd be great at it.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:32

put me, help me, get in the business.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:36

Made me a cassette tape of the fundamentals of the

Mike Morawski: 00:16:38

way he built his business.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:40

And I went and duplicated exactly what he did, and that's where

Mike Morawski: 00:16:44

I sold 78 houses that year.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:46

I went on to build a team selling between a hundred and 130 houses a year.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:52

And we did that for about 12 years.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:55

were there pivotal points?

Mike Morawski: 00:16:56

Yeah, I think there were pivotal points along the way.

Mike Morawski: 00:16:59

I got divorced from my first wife.

Mike Morawski: 00:17:01

and, really focused more on my career than I was focusing on when I was

Mike Morawski: 00:17:06

married and, building a business and again, still turning and burning, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:17:12

I hadn't gotten to that point in my life yet where relationship mattered.

Tim Winders: 00:17:17

So it seems as if, and I would guess knowing, the generation that

Tim Winders: 00:17:21

you come from and the way you've talked so far that you would be one of these folks,

Tim Winders: 00:17:26

we would consider a very hard worker.

Tim Winders: 00:17:30

I'm guessing that you're a guy that it's probably hard for somebody to outwork you.

Tim Winders: 00:17:35

Would that be correct?

Mike Morawski: 00:17:38

Yeah, you, you could say that, Tim.

Mike Morawski: 00:17:42

might have sobered up, but I did not from work.

Tim Winders: 00:17:45

All right.

Tim Winders: 00:17:45

so here's my follow up to that, just to get you thinking a little bit more, I've

Tim Winders: 00:17:50

noticed that about myself similarly.

Tim Winders: 00:17:53

And I say this is, I'll make a statement and then I'll just let you respond to

Tim Winders: 00:17:58

it in whatever direction you want to go.

Tim Winders: 00:18:00

I have found that often our superpower when it's overused

Tim Winders: 00:18:06

or misused, misused kryptonite.

Tim Winders: 00:18:09

And so someone who is categorized as a hard worker.

Tim Winders: 00:18:15

I would love for you to share whatever, and there's no right or

Tim Winders: 00:18:18

wrong here, but share what are some ways that has really helped you?

Tim Winders: 00:18:23

And what are some ways that may have been a hindrance or a kryptonite?

Tim Winders: 00:18:26

Because sometimes we could just try to work our tails off when we should

Tim Winders: 00:18:31

be sitting back thinking or pausing or allowing the Lord to do something.

Tim Winders: 00:18:36

I've noticed that for me.

Tim Winders: 00:18:37

I don't know if you have it, you could say, no, Tim, I just worked

Tim Winders: 00:18:40

my way through it and I'm good.

Tim Winders: 00:18:41

But, what are your thoughts when I say that?

Mike Morawski: 00:18:44

the initial thought that comes to mind that is because I'm

Mike Morawski: 00:18:48

such a worker, because I'm so focused, because I'm such an entrepreneur.

Mike Morawski: 00:18:53

and an overachiever, I've damaged marriages and I've damaged relationships

Mike Morawski: 00:18:59

with children as a result of that.

Mike Morawski: 00:19:02

and some of which are irreparable, which is really sad.

Mike Morawski: 00:19:07

But I also feel that I've left an example for my children of work ethic, because if

Mike Morawski: 00:19:15

you look at some of the, people out there today, they're just a lot of laziness.

Mike Morawski: 00:19:22

and, there is a middle of the road you got, you know, that where you could

Mike Morawski: 00:19:26

be, where you could live, where you can operate, there is a middle of the road.

Mike Morawski: 00:19:30

I don't necessarily know that I found it, but, there, there's a message in there if

Mike Morawski: 00:19:36

somebody wants to listen to that again.

Tim Winders: 00:19:38

Yeah, and I know what it is and the reason why is

Tim Winders: 00:19:40

I've struggled with that myself.

Tim Winders: 00:19:43

I fortunately do still have, I'm about to be married 35 years and

Tim Winders: 00:19:46

have, the two children, but I do think that my work ethic has made

Tim Winders: 00:19:53

the relationship tougher with them.

Tim Winders: 00:19:55

Maybe.

Tim Winders: 00:19:55

I don't know if that's the right term.

Tim Winders: 00:19:57

And there were some generational things going on.

Tim Winders: 00:19:59

you and I are roughly from the same generation and I

Tim Winders: 00:20:02

want to make sure I say this.

Tim Winders: 00:20:04

I don't think we're right.

Tim Winders: 00:20:06

Or wrong.

Tim Winders: 00:20:07

There's some generations after us that they are approaching work

Tim Winders: 00:20:10

and life differently than us.

Tim Winders: 00:20:12

And maybe in some ways we could learn from them.

Tim Winders: 00:20:15

I don't know, but I do find, and I went to Bible school.

Tim Winders: 00:20:19

I'm going to ask you about Bible school here shortly, because I

Tim Winders: 00:20:20

know you went to Bible school.

Tim Winders: 00:20:22

It's, it was very interesting when I was in Bible school, there was this

Tim Winders: 00:20:24

group of people that they were busting their tail, trying to, get God's

Tim Winders: 00:20:28

attention, do impact for the Lord, all that kind of stuff, which is great.

Tim Winders: 00:20:32

And then there was these people that were just sitting around waiting.

Tim Winders: 00:20:36

And I couldn't relate to the sitting around waiting, but I

Tim Winders: 00:20:41

do think I should sit around and wait a little bit more on that.

Tim Winders: 00:20:44

anyway, and I don't know how to reconcile that.

Tim Winders: 00:20:46

Some people probably just need to be hustling a little bit more and some of us

Tim Winders: 00:20:50

probably need to hustle a little bit less.

Tim Winders: 00:20:52

maybe that's the great tension that we have.

Tim Winders: 00:20:54

So at what point did you go to Bible school?

Tim Winders: 00:20:57

I saw Bible school somewhere on your resume.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:00

Yeah, I went to Bible school in

Mike Morawski: 00:21:04

20, between 2014 and 20.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:06

18.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:08

So 2014, 2018, you probably want to catch up before that.

Tim Winders: 00:21:15

Yeah, probably do.

Tim Winders: 00:21:17

That's oddly enough.

Tim Winders: 00:21:18

That's when I was in Bible school, 15 to 17, 18.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:22

Wow.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:23

Okay.

Mike Morawski: 00:21:23

That's cool.

Tim Winders: 00:21:24

let's back up a little bit.

Tim Winders: 00:21:25

Cause obviously I think there were some stages along in your life here.

Tim Winders: 00:21:29

talk about, at some point along the way you were going through this churn

Tim Winders: 00:21:34

of all of your real estate and it was, which is, I love the transition

Tim Winders: 00:21:39

because to me that's very transactional.

Tim Winders: 00:21:41

you are a real estate agent, so you, the relationships needed to be

Tim Winders: 00:21:44

better, obviously, but pretty much you go to a closing, get a check,

Tim Winders: 00:21:48

you walk away and you're done, you move on, you do the next one.

Tim Winders: 00:21:51

At some point, something clicked in your mind.

Tim Winders: 00:21:54

And I don't want to say, I don't want to put words in your mouth, like you started

Tim Winders: 00:21:57

thinking more long term or you started thinking differently about transaction.

Tim Winders: 00:22:00

I don't know what it was, but where did something click along the way with this

Tim Winders: 00:22:04

real estate journey that you went on?

Mike Morawski: 00:22:06

Yeah.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:06

Great question.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:07

So 2005, I saw the markets changing and wasn't real sure what was going to happen.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:13

I've always kind of, you know, I I've been the kind of guy that

Mike Morawski: 00:22:17

here, I'll give you an example.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:18

One, a friend of mine and I, are driving from where we live outside

Mike Morawski: 00:22:24

of Chicago to the lakes one weekend.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:28

And I said to him, I go, man, that corner right there would

Mike Morawski: 00:22:30

be great for a white hen.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:32

You may remember white hen, they were little, store pantries, like

Mike Morawski: 00:22:36

7 11s, but a different version.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:39

He goes, no, you're crazy, they'll never build one there.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:42

The next weekend, we're driving to the lake again, there's a sign on the corner

Mike Morawski: 00:22:46

that says, coming soon, white hen.

Mike Morawski: 00:22:49

That's the kind of guy and I predestined this stuff,

Tim Winders: 00:22:52

were a prophet.

Tim Winders: 00:22:53

You were a prophet before you even knew it, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:22:56

So I, so 2005, I see the market starting to soften and I

Mike Morawski: 00:23:01

knew that things were going to change.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:02

I didn't know what was going to happen or where the market was going to go.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:06

I had always wanted to be in the apartment business.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:09

there's a couple of big syndicators here in Chicago and a syndicator is

Mike Morawski: 00:23:13

just a fancy word for somebody who raises private capital, marries it

Mike Morawski: 00:23:18

with real estate, runs and operates that deal, stays in the middle.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:22

and I, that's what I knew at the time about it.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:27

And so 2005, I said, Hey, I'm going to go in the apartment business.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:32

So I started an apartment, I went and syndicated my first apartment

Mike Morawski: 00:23:36

deal in 2005 and Tim over the next 30 months, I scaled a business

Mike Morawski: 00:23:43

to 4, 000 units in five markets.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:46

I built a property management company managing 7, 500 units.

Mike Morawski: 00:23:51

I built a hundred million dollar company in a 30 month period between 2005 and,

Tim Winders: 00:23:58

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:23:58

and then what happened?

Mike Morawski: 00:24:00

2008.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:00

Yeah, I'm an overachiever.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:01

2008 happened.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:03

the residential world went upside down and I thought it's residential.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:09

People are still going to need a place to live.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:11

They're going to need apartments.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:13

We were buying apartments in markets that have one type of employment,

Mike Morawski: 00:24:19

one employer in town, tertiary markets that didn't make sense.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:25

And when 2008 happened shortly after the commercial crisis

Mike Morawski: 00:24:29

happened and we went upside down.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:32

So Tim, I had grown way too fast.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:35

I was very unstable.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:36

I tell the people I coach and train today that take your time.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:41

It's a marathon.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:42

It's not a sprint.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:44

I owned 60 million worth of real estate at 85% loan to value.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:50

I don't know who was worse.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:51

Me for taking the money or the banks for giving it to me.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:55

I didn't pay attention to the details.

Mike Morawski: 00:24:58

So I didn't watch those KPIs, those key performance indicators.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:03

like I watch them today.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:05

I, was over under capitalized to run my business.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:09

I hired a hundred people.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:10

I had a payroll that was a million dollars a year.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:13

it, it just, it didn't make sense.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:16

We started to come off the rails and I probably at the time I had 38 companies,

Mike Morawski: 00:25:21

but at the time I decided, I had 12 companies that should've, I should've

Mike Morawski: 00:25:26

just let them go to foreclosure, let a few of my investors get hurt.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:30

But I tried to save everybody.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:32

I'm the oldest born.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:33

I'm the hero.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:35

I want to make everybody good.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:37

I don't want to give anybody bad news.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:40

I thought, at the time, Tim, I thought this is just a recession.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:44

This is going to last 17 or 18 months.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:46

The markets are going to bounce back.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:48

There'll be a 10% correction, just like the past couple of recessions.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:52

But that's not what happened lasted seven or eight years of

Mike Morawski: 00:25:56

40% correction in the market.

Mike Morawski: 00:25:58

You can't weather that storm.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:00

So I'd gone to my accountant and my attorney and said, Hey, what do we do?

Mike Morawski: 00:26:05

I came up with a plan that I was going to move money from my profitable

Mike Morawski: 00:26:08

companies to my non profitable companies.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:11

My accountant and my attorney both said it was okay to do that.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:14

Just leave a paper trail when the markets bounce back, put the money back.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:19

that was fine, except I didn't tell my investors I was doing it.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:24

for non-disclosure, and we're in a business that you are

Mike Morawski: 00:26:27

held at a much higher standard.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:29

You're scrutinized at every step of the way.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:33

I didn't tell my investors, so I wound up being charged on wire fraud

Mike Morawski: 00:26:37

and mail fraud charges, and I got sentenced to 10 years in federal prison.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:42

And in 2000, 13, I lost everything and went to prison.

Tim Winders: 00:26:47

So many questions I've got.

Mike Morawski: 00:26:50

I bet.

Tim Winders: 00:26:51

What's interesting is 2013 when it's, when we lost everything

Tim Winders: 00:26:55

bankruptcy was a year before that we moved out of our big old home and

Tim Winders: 00:26:59

lived in a Honda van for a while.

Tim Winders: 00:27:01

So it was, I don't want to make light of prison, but it was our own little prison.

Tim Winders: 00:27:05

I think everybody went to their prisons.

Tim Winders: 00:27:07

first thing I'm going to, I'm going to go there a little bit more, but

Tim Winders: 00:27:09

I want to back up to that 08 and the mindset that you had heading into it.

Tim Winders: 00:27:16

Hard worker, probably in your mind, you could work your way out of

Tim Winders: 00:27:19

any situation, but you also had a spiritual background where you had

Tim Winders: 00:27:25

given parts of your life to Jesus.

Tim Winders: 00:27:28

Maybe not all of it.

Tim Winders: 00:27:30

Spiritually, what were you thinking during that time?

Tim Winders: 00:27:34

let me tell you where I was and then you could respond with where you, I

Tim Winders: 00:27:37

thought number one, that it was going to be about 12 to 18 months also.

Tim Winders: 00:27:42

I didn't realize the government was going to get that involved and it

Tim Winders: 00:27:45

would prolong and a lot of stuff there.

Tim Winders: 00:27:47

we don't need to go down that road, but I really did think that the

Tim Winders: 00:27:50

Lord, I was one of his favorites.

Tim Winders: 00:27:53

And you know what he did it just didn't look like what I thought But what were

Tim Winders: 00:27:59

you what was going on spiritually for you then, where were you at with the lord?

Tim Winders: 00:28:03

I know you mentioned earlier.

Tim Winders: 00:28:04

I use the term atm machine you get in trouble You get pulled over you go to

Tim Winders: 00:28:08

him because obviously when you all of a sudden start realizing that there's

Tim Winders: 00:28:11

wire fraud There's stuff like that going on You're probably not as cool hand

Tim Winders: 00:28:17

luke as you Typically are I could tell you've got a good little poker face and

Tim Winders: 00:28:21

all that what was going on the inside

Mike Morawski: 00:28:23

I was a mess.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:25

I was a wreck.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:26

my, my wife, I started drinking.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:31

prior to that.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:32

And I was so messed up in my started.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:36

I should say, started drinking again.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:37

So we're both sober going to program working, working a 12 step program,

Mike Morawski: 00:28:43

involved in the church, serving a church.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:46

Great relationship with Jesus.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:49

My business started to go sideways.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:51

I never talked to my wife about business.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:53

So she didn't know anything.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:55

Once in a while, I'd say, Hey, we bought another apartment complex.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:58

I raised some money.

Mike Morawski: 00:28:58

I met this really interesting investor, but I never told her anything.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:02

Hindsight says that was a good thing now.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:05

But at the time wasn't a good thing.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:07

I, had, all this stuff going on.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:10

And then she started drinking.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:12

I thought she was having an affair.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:14

I thought.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:15

at least she's not having an affair, And, so I didn't do

Mike Morawski: 00:29:18

anything about that piece of it.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:20

And I, I started drinking then like a year later.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:25

And cause I had figured my life's a mess.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:28

It's off the rails.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:29

I'm losing everything who cares anymore.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:32

I had no relationship, other than the fact, I think my saying at the

Mike Morawski: 00:29:37

time, Tim was, how the hell could you do this to me after all these years

Mike Morawski: 00:29:42

of following you, seeking you trying to, how could you let this happen?

Mike Morawski: 00:29:46

I had two missions in life at the time.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:49

One was to.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:50

provide safe and secure housing for my tenants thinking I

Mike Morawski: 00:29:54

was doing a great thing.

Mike Morawski: 00:29:55

And the second was that I wanted to employ a thousand people because I wanted

Mike Morawski: 00:30:00

people to work for a great company.

Mike Morawski: 00:30:01

I wanted to be the best company in the country to work for.

Mike Morawski: 00:30:05

I wanted to, and I always thought with those two missions, how do you go wrong?

Mike Morawski: 00:30:09

How does this come off the rails?

Mike Morawski: 00:30:12

yeah, there was no relationship.

Tim Winders: 00:30:15

So I want to move on, but before we do.

Tim Winders: 00:30:20

I know I can guarantee you've been asked this before, but I'm going to

Tim Winders: 00:30:26

put a little bit of a twist to it.

Tim Winders: 00:30:30

I think you mentioned a few things that you probably should have done.

Tim Winders: 00:30:32

Could have, should have, would have, we could do armchair quarterback,

Tim Winders: 00:30:35

have more reserves, different things like that, obviously communicate with

Tim Winders: 00:30:39

your investors, those types of things.

Tim Winders: 00:30:41

But is there anything that you would have done differently?

Tim Winders: 00:30:45

And I want to say this personally.

Tim Winders: 00:30:48

In your quiet time, in your time that, not working differently or structuring

Tim Winders: 00:30:55

differently, but anything that you would have different, because I've

Tim Winders: 00:30:58

got a very clear answer for me, but anything for you that you just, if

Tim Winders: 00:31:04

you could go back and say, this is something I would have done differently.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:09

two things.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:11

One is I would have had a better quiet time and I would have

Mike Morawski: 00:31:14

listened because I didn't listen.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:16

I didn't listen to God and I didn't listen to the people around me.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:21

and I'll give you an example real quick.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:23

So 2008, I'm closing the biggest deal at the time we had

Mike Morawski: 00:31:27

closed about 280 some units.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:31

I'm in a closing room at a title company in Cincinnati, deal's not closing,

Mike Morawski: 00:31:37

my office isn't wiring the money.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:39

All day I'm there, 11 o'clock in the morning, finally 5 o'clock

Mike Morawski: 00:31:42

in the afternoon, my partner gets on the phone, he says, I

Mike Morawski: 00:31:46

don't know how to tell you this.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:49

don't know how to tell me what, where's my 500, 000.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:52

It was, I had to move the money from an escrow account this

Mike Morawski: 00:31:55

week into a business account.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:57

And I said, whoa, hold it timeout.

Mike Morawski: 00:31:59

I said, you knew we weren't supposed to do that.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:01

So now I'm just circle back for a minute.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:04

Remember I said a minute ago, I never told my wife anything about business.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:07

So this is Wednesday.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:10

I wind up dry closing that deal, which means just means

Mike Morawski: 00:32:13

we signed all the paperwork.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:14

I said, I'll have it funded by Tuesday.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:16

I go home over the weekend.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:17

I sold my partner's equity in that deal and, raised the rest of the capital.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:23

I needed to get the deal funded by Tuesday.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:27

Important point right here, Friday night, I go to dinner with my partner

Mike Morawski: 00:32:31

and his wife and my wife and my partner.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:34

And I aren't really getting along.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:36

and on the way home from dinner, my wife says to me, I don't trust him.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:42

And I go, I think I'm being a good husband at this point.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:46

And I go, Hey honey, I got this under control.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:49

Don't worry about it.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:51

When I should have said, tell me more.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:53

What do you mean?

Mike Morawski: 00:32:55

Fast forward about five days.

Mike Morawski: 00:32:57

I'm at lunch with my outside legal counsel.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:00

So we had an in house legal counsel and then I had an outside attorney.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:06

About five days later, I'm at lunch on Wednesday afternoon, the

Mike Morawski: 00:33:09

next week with my attorney, we leave lunch and he's a big guy.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:14

he played football and, he's walking in the parking lot.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:19

He puts his arm around me and he says, I want you to know something.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:23

I said, what?

Mike Morawski: 00:33:24

He goes, I do not trust your partner and I don't like what's going on.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:30

So two incidents within five days of each other, that was a red flag.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:36

And I said, I got this under control.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:39

Don't worry about it.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:40

I wasn't listening to God and I wasn't listening to the people around me.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:45

that's my fifth biggest mistake that I made during that time.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:49

If I could rewind the clock, I wouldn't have picked that guy to be my partner.

Mike Morawski: 00:33:55

and I would have listened to my wife and would have listened to

Mike Morawski: 00:33:59

the key individuals around me.

Tim Winders: 00:34:04

And, often God is probably using those people

Tim Winders: 00:34:06

around us to, to speak to us.

Tim Winders: 00:34:09

And I think that's the big test of how soft our hearts are.

Tim Winders: 00:34:13

If our hearts are hard, man, it's all about us.

Tim Winders: 00:34:16

That's what I noticed with myself.

Tim Winders: 00:34:18

so in 13, you go to prison.

Tim Winders: 00:34:21

And then you mentioned earlier between 14 and 18, you were in Bible school, kind of

Tim Winders: 00:34:26

bridge those gaps for me, bridge prison to Bible school and share whatever you think

Tim Winders: 00:34:31

you might need to share about prison.

Tim Winders: 00:34:33

People probably going, man, ask what prison was like, but, if you

Tim Winders: 00:34:37

want to share whatever that was, I

Mike Morawski: 00:34:39

Prison sucked.

Tim Winders: 00:34:41

I wouldn't think it's great,

Mike Morawski: 00:34:43

So I,

Tim Winders: 00:34:44

obviously you didn't serve 10 years

Mike Morawski: 00:34:47

no, almost eight.

Mike Morawski: 00:34:48

but, so here's what happened.

Mike Morawski: 00:34:50

I went to prison and, I thought my life was over and I always tell

Mike Morawski: 00:34:54

people, I say, I never flew private.

Mike Morawski: 00:34:56

I didn't have a big house.

Mike Morawski: 00:34:57

I didn't have a boat.

Mike Morawski: 00:34:58

We didn't have a fancy car.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:00

I was the neighborhood baseball coach.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:02

I was home every night for dinner.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:04

And I got ripped from that to live in a 12 by 12 room with three men.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:07

I didn't know, nor did I like wondering what the hell happened in my life.

Tim Winders: 00:35:12

at what age and when you were 50, mid fifties.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:15

53.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:17

And I, I'm in prison about three weeks and my wife divorces me and it

Mike Morawski: 00:35:22

wrecked me and now I'm like, okay, now what, how do I get through this?

Mike Morawski: 00:35:28

and I'm mad at God, by the way, at this point now I'm pissed.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:32

and I walk into gym one day and probably I'm probably in about six

Mike Morawski: 00:35:37

weeks and I walk into gym one day and I always tell I say, you know what?

Mike Morawski: 00:35:41

I was just window shopping.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:42

I wasn't looking to pick up a weight.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:44

I wasn't ready to work out.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:45

I had gone from running marathons to being 35 overweight.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:49

Absolutely hated myself.

Mike Morawski: 00:35:51

Tim, frankly, I wanted to kill myself, but I was too afraid to, And, this

Mike Morawski: 00:35:56

guy walks up to me, young kid, younger than me, 25 years younger than, and,

Mike Morawski: 00:36:01

probably 20 years younger than me.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:03

And he says, look, don't let these people beat you.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:06

All we want to do is take from you.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:08

Everything you've ever known, everything that you've ever had.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:11

They can take your business, your apartments, they can destroy your

Mike Morawski: 00:36:14

family, but what they can't take is who you are and what you're made of.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:18

What they can't take is what's up here.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:21

And what's in here.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:22

They can't take your passion.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:23

They can't take your desire and they can't take your knowledge because

Mike Morawski: 00:36:27

you can go get all that back.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:29

He goes, you go build another a hundred million dollar company.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:32

It won't be a problem for you.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:36

And I don't know what it was, but.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:37

the switch flip.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:39

And it was, I think that, and this is why I tell my story a couple reasons.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:45

We all have these defining moments in our life and what do we do with them, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:36:50

How do we, do we, do we go this way or this way?

Mike Morawski: 00:36:53

I tell my story 'cause I wanna bring hope and inspiration.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:56

I don't want people, people are trapped.

Mike Morawski: 00:36:58

You said it, you were in that Honda in a prison, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:37:01

I think we're trapped in a prison in our minds, and unless we get out of

Mike Morawski: 00:37:05

there, I might have been behind a wall, people are trapped from addiction,

Mike Morawski: 00:37:10

from abuse, from childhood trauma.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:13

You know what?

Mike Morawski: 00:37:14

You can get over it.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:15

Go on.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:17

So this kid, this guy says, come to my class, start working out,

Mike Morawski: 00:37:21

you'll start to feel better.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:23

And I said, okay, don't ask me why.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:28

But the next day I show up at this guy's class and I'm working out and I

Mike Morawski: 00:37:31

start working out and I start losing weight and I start feeling better.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:35

I, all of a sudden I start writing.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:37

I wound up writing two books.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:39

I wrote a book called exit plan, your complete guide to multifamily

Mike Morawski: 00:37:42

investing and why you need an exit plan.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:45

My second book just came out on property management.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:48

I wrote an ethics course.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:49

I taught real estate investing, property management and ethics

Mike Morawski: 00:37:53

in prison for six years.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:55

I went to college.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:56

I got a bachelor's degree in theology.

Mike Morawski: 00:37:59

I was on an outreach program.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:01

I, went into the community, told my story to small business

Mike Morawski: 00:38:04

owners, local college students.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:06

I met a professor from the University of Minnesota.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:09

He and I co authored a paper together that got published in the Business Journal

Mike Morawski: 00:38:14

of Ethics that gets taught today at the collegiate level for forensic accounting

Mike Morawski: 00:38:19

and sales and marketing classes.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:21

I came home, thought I was going to just go into coaching and training business and

Mike Morawski: 00:38:26

that would be my new life, my new design.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:29

but what I, I started underwriting again because I needed to figure that out

Mike Morawski: 00:38:33

so I could teach people how to do it.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:36

And I find a deal in Florida and I go to a couple of my coaching

Mike Morawski: 00:38:39

clients and we partner on a deal.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:42

along the way, my securities attorney says, Hey, I think I

Mike Morawski: 00:38:45

can get you approved by the sec.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:49

And I'm thinking there's no way this isn't going to happen.

Mike Morawski: 00:38:52

And three months later, she comes back with a written approval from the sec

Mike Morawski: 00:38:56

that I can be an issuer of securities, a sponsor of deals, raise capital again.

Mike Morawski: 00:39:02

And, it's funny how life is.

Mike Morawski: 00:39:04

Come full circle.

Tim Winders: 00:39:06

Yeah, and I want to pause there to make sure because as you were

Tim Winders: 00:39:10

talking about going to prison for what you went for, I'm actually trying to connect

Tim Winders: 00:39:16

the dots between what you're doing now, which is you're raising funds and putting

Tim Winders: 00:39:21

syndications and all that together.

Tim Winders: 00:39:22

And I'm going, how does that happen?

Tim Winders: 00:39:24

That is, that's somewhat miraculous.

Tim Winders: 00:39:27

I don't know all the details of that, but that doesn't happen

Tim Winders: 00:39:30

to just everyone, does it?

Mike Morawski: 00:39:32

No, not at all.

Tim Winders: 00:39:34

Yeah, because usually you, you make that mistake and there's not

Tim Winders: 00:39:38

a second chance to go back because you, I think you'd already even reconciled.

Tim Winders: 00:39:42

You're probably going to coach train, probably not be

Tim Winders: 00:39:45

the deal maker again, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:39:47

Yeah.

Mike Morawski: 00:39:47

I actually thought, I actually didn't think I'd ever raised capital again.

Mike Morawski: 00:39:51

And it's funny cause what happened was I was actually on a podcast

Mike Morawski: 00:39:55

one day, it was a lunchtime event or about 150 people on this event.

Mike Morawski: 00:39:59

And somebody says, Hey, are you raising capital?

Mike Morawski: 00:40:02

I said, no, they said, why not?

Mike Morawski: 00:40:04

I wouldn't want to put my money with anybody other than you because

Mike Morawski: 00:40:08

you've already made the mistakes.

Mike Morawski: 00:40:10

You know what to watch out for.

Mike Morawski: 00:40:12

And I went, wow, that's interesting.

Mike Morawski: 00:40:16

So

Tim Winders: 00:40:17

It is interesting.

Tim Winders: 00:40:18

And I find that, all right, this is, I keep wanting to dig into real estate,

Tim Winders: 00:40:25

but I think this is more important, Mike.

Tim Winders: 00:40:29

I dealt with quite a bit of shame, but I never admitted it for a while.

Tim Winders: 00:40:34

And I think that shame kept me from communicating, doing

Tim Winders: 00:40:39

things like this, just sharing the story and things like that.

Tim Winders: 00:40:43

Did you experience that?

Tim Winders: 00:40:45

What did it look like?

Tim Winders: 00:40:46

And then how, if you did you overcome all of that?

Tim Winders: 00:40:50

Because, you know, at some point you just kind of feel like we need to go

Tim Winders: 00:40:54

hide under a rock because I don't know.

Mike Morawski: 00:40:58

I hate, I hated myself.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:01

I couldn't believe that I did this to myself, to my family, that, listen, I came

Mike Morawski: 00:41:07

from nothing built this great success.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:10

I had a couple of smaller successes along the way, but built this

Mike Morawski: 00:41:14

hundred million dollar company.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:16

And just got wiped out, Hey, Tim, if the market would have corrected 10% or

Mike Morawski: 00:41:21

bounce back or there'd been a little glitch, it would have been different,

Mike Morawski: 00:41:25

but this was a 40% correction.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:28

We were in markets that you had, employment, in the area was

Mike Morawski: 00:41:32

transportation and distribute and small parts manufacturing businesses.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:38

They got wiped out.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:40

People got, our occupancy in apartments dropped 30%.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:44

You can't mitigate that storm, but here's I think here's where you wanted to go.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:50

so I'm sitting in the chapel at church one night and prison's

Mike Morawski: 00:41:55

not a great a place that you cry.

Mike Morawski: 00:41:58

But I cried for 18 months every day.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:02

They would find me in the chapel, in the balcony, in a fetal position,

Mike Morawski: 00:42:06

not being able to, function.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:10

there were a couple of times that guys had to carry me back to my dorm.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:14

for count, it was bad.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:17

I met a guy though, best friend, good friend of mine today.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:22

And I went up to him, I went up to him after Chapel one

Mike Morawski: 00:42:27

night and I said, can we talk?

Mike Morawski: 00:42:30

And, we talked for a few minutes.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:32

He goes, look, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you two books.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:35

I want you to read five chapters out of those two books.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:38

if.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:39

After you read those, if anything resonates, come back and see me.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:44

One book was by Henry Cloud.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:46

It was, it was called, How People Think or How People Change or something like that.

Mike Morawski: 00:42:52

and I read that, I, and then the other book, I don't remember what the other

Mike Morawski: 00:42:55

book was, but I read that and went back to him and he goes, You read those?

Mike Morawski: 00:43:01

He goes, nobody I give those to ever reads them.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:04

I read them.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:06

And he and I were inseparable for 18 months.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:10

And he taught me how to let Jesus love me.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:15

And, that's what changed.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:16

That's what changed me.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:17

It changed my heart.

Mike Morawski: 00:43:18

It changed who I am.

Tim Winders: 00:43:20

so the difference, the contrast between Mike

Tim Winders: 00:43:26

pre 2013 and then Mike today.

Tim Winders: 00:43:28

listen, I have no doubt your hard charger, all of that.

Tim Winders: 00:43:33

But there is a.

Tim Winders: 00:43:35

There's a softness.

Tim Winders: 00:43:37

There's an openness.

Tim Winders: 00:43:39

There's, you and I, when we first clicked on, I think both of us felt

Tim Winders: 00:43:43

like we were long lost friends.

Tim Winders: 00:43:44

we could have, hung out together and all of that.

Tim Winders: 00:43:47

I'm guessing that wasn't quite, I'm sure you were a nice guy.

Tim Winders: 00:43:50

I'm not saying anything, but is that a contrast from the way you were previous?

Tim Winders: 00:43:55

what are some other things that are, Differences in, I'll just say your heart.

Tim Winders: 00:44:00

I don't even know if that's the right term today versus then.

Tim Winders: 00:44:04

And then I do want to know, I do want you to know we're about to go

Tim Winders: 00:44:06

into what are the differences in the way you're doing business now versus

Tim Winders: 00:44:10

the way you were doing business.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:12

that's probably a good segue.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:13

So I have a friend who's been in the apartment business for years.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:16

He actually used to work for me we fired him and he went on to do, over

Mike Morawski: 00:44:22

a hundred thousand units, between then and now, done really well in

Mike Morawski: 00:44:27

the business and we're great friends today, he's my biggest cheerleader

Mike Morawski: 00:44:30

in the world, he says, I'm going to be the Michael Milken of multifamily.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:35

and, but here's what he'll tell you.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:38

He'll tell you that then I was a dick today.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:45

You couldn't find somebody nicer.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:48

So was there a contrast?

Mike Morawski: 00:44:50

Absolutely.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:51

I thought it was about money.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:52

I thought I had the world by the short hairs.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:55

I, and you know what, I didn't care about people.

Mike Morawski: 00:44:59

I really didn't as much as I said, I did.

Mike Morawski: 00:45:01

I didn't, today I care, I hope you don't flat tire in the RV.

Mike Morawski: 00:45:06

I care about you today, right?

Tim Winders: 00:45:07

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:45:08

the cool thing is let's circle back to our beginning conversations.

Tim Winders: 00:45:11

I feel like the Lord guided me, we talked about networking.

Tim Winders: 00:45:15

I'm guessing you networked and went out and met people

Tim Winders: 00:45:17

like we talked about earlier.

Tim Winders: 00:45:19

But to me, what just clicked in my head is you're now out ministering to people.

Tim Winders: 00:45:25

You just have this vehicle of real estate that allows you to interact with

Tim Winders: 00:45:29

large numbers or number of people, but you're just looking for what you could

Tim Winders: 00:45:34

do to love on people, to help people minister, maybe say a strong word to

Tim Winders: 00:45:39

them if they need it, is that correct?

Mike Morawski: 00:45:41

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Tim Winders: 00:45:43

Yes,

Mike Morawski: 00:45:45

Today it's about how do I help you?

Mike Morawski: 00:45:46

How do I help you grow?

Mike Morawski: 00:45:47

What do you need to know?

Tim Winders: 00:45:49

sure.

Tim Winders: 00:45:49

So you've got all these skills in real estate.

Tim Winders: 00:45:51

You obviously, I think that the Lord did not want to remove you from that because

Tim Winders: 00:45:56

the doors opened up to go back into it.

Tim Winders: 00:45:59

How are you approaching that differently today?

Tim Winders: 00:46:03

Then you were in, let's say pre 08, because I think the years, if

Tim Winders: 00:46:07

there are anything like mine, the years you had from 08 to 13 were

Tim Winders: 00:46:12

the dark, the real dark years.

Tim Winders: 00:46:14

my guts were turning and all of that.

Tim Winders: 00:46:16

It sounds like yours probably were too.

Tim Winders: 00:46:17

So let's go the way you were doing business, anything you want to

Tim Winders: 00:46:20

share pre 08 to the way you're doing business now, what are some

Tim Winders: 00:46:24

things you're doing different?

Mike Morawski: 00:46:27

if you listened to those five mistakes I made, I grew too fast,

Mike Morawski: 00:46:31

I was over leveraged, undercapitalized, didn't pay attention to the details,

Mike Morawski: 00:46:35

and I didn't listen to people around me, what I'm doing different today is I'm

Mike Morawski: 00:46:40

more conservative in my underwriting, I'm putting more eyeballs on that.

Mike Morawski: 00:46:45

I'm making, more strategic decisions, 2007, I closed 17 deals for 2200 units.

Mike Morawski: 00:46:54

It was stupid, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:46:56

You don't need to do that.

Mike Morawski: 00:46:58

matter of fact, there's been a couple of multifamily people who have just

Mike Morawski: 00:47:02

imploded recently in the changing market because of that effect.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:08

large 3000 property portfolios and, so today I'm much more conservative in

Mike Morawski: 00:47:15

my underwriting and double checking, triple checking, as a carpenter,

Mike Morawski: 00:47:19

they say you measure twice cut once.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:23

Yeah, so that's what I'm doing today.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:25

I'm paying attention to the details.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:27

I'm more involved in the asset management.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:30

I'm not just relying on other people.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:33

and I'm much more transparent.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:36

I tell my story every chance I get, I want people to know who I am, what they're,

Mike Morawski: 00:47:41

who they're getting in partnership with.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:44

And I have no problem today telling somebody I can't do business with you

Mike Morawski: 00:47:48

or don't want to do business with you.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:50

And if somebody says that to me, I get, I'm okay.

Mike Morawski: 00:47:55

where I might not have been before.

Tim Winders: 00:47:57

Hey, one thing, Mike, you mentioned earlier, you

Tim Winders: 00:47:58

mentioned this transaction that was in 2008 that, you closed it dry.

Tim Winders: 00:48:05

It wasn't funded.

Tim Winders: 00:48:06

You were going through some things and it seems to me like that deal.

Tim Winders: 00:48:12

You were hammering it through and by God, you were going to make that deal work.

Tim Winders: 00:48:17

I had some condos we purchased on the water down in Florida

Tim Winders: 00:48:21

that I always joke with people.

Tim Winders: 00:48:22

I could tell you when the absolute peak of the real estate market was.

Tim Winders: 00:48:26

It was when we closed those we shouldn't have, but we did it anyway.

Tim Winders: 00:48:29

That was the absolute peak of the market in that area.

Tim Winders: 00:48:34

But it seemed like You were just driving deals through regardless, and now you

Tim Winders: 00:48:42

are maybe looking for clues or you're maybe going back to quiet time you

Tim Winders: 00:48:46

mentioned, you're, you missed some quiet time is as far as a personal thing.

Tim Winders: 00:48:50

What are the things now that lets you know?

Tim Winders: 00:48:55

To back off or this isn't a deal.

Tim Winders: 00:48:57

And I know all the analysis.

Tim Winders: 00:48:59

I'm almost not looking for the practical.

Tim Winders: 00:49:00

I know the numbers and all that, but there are probably deals today that

Tim Winders: 00:49:04

come across your desk that in Oh eight before you would have hammered

Tim Winders: 00:49:06

them through, is that correct?

Mike Morawski: 00:49:08

yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:49:11

so is there, I guess I'm trying to tie together some practical

Tim Winders: 00:49:13

and spiritual, and if I'm making things try to match that they shouldn't,

Tim Winders: 00:49:17

but the Lord told me to pause more.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:21

here's the thing though, we're in an environment right

Mike Morawski: 00:49:23

now where it's hard to get, it can be harder to get deals done and you

Mike Morawski: 00:49:28

gotta work a little bit harder and you have to push a little bit more and

Mike Morawski: 00:49:31

you have to ask some harder questions.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:34

It doesn't mean the deal's bad.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:36

It just means it's a harder environment right now to get anything done in.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:40

It doesn't mean that I shouldn't do that deal, but back then there were

Mike Morawski: 00:49:45

a couple of deals that I should have said, Oh, nevermind, let's not do it.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:49

Because the environment was so good and so robust and the deal

Mike Morawski: 00:49:53

was still really hard to get done.

Mike Morawski: 00:49:57

there's, am I making sense in that?

Tim Winders: 00:50:00

Yes,

Mike Morawski: 00:50:01

like right now it's harder to get deals done regardless of the deal.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:06

but that doesn't mean it's not a good deal or you shouldn't do it.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:09

Like I'm doing a deal right now that it's just tougher to raise money today.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:13

people are, my credit card, that's up or, we're not ready to invest,

Mike Morawski: 00:50:17

we're not sure what's going to happen.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:19

We're scared.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:19

We're nervous.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:20

Don't be nervous.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:21

this is the time to be in front of the next bull run.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:25

This is the time to position yourself.

Mike Morawski: 00:50:27

We're going to come out of this and we're going to come out of it

Mike Morawski: 00:50:29

pretty quick and you're going to say, darn, I should have gotten

Mike Morawski: 00:50:33

involved, but this will be a retrans, transference of wealth in this country.

Tim Winders: 00:50:38

or that's a good transition because before we finish

Tim Winders: 00:50:41

up here, we've got a few minutes left.

Tim Winders: 00:50:42

I wanted to ask from your unique perspective, what are you seeing related

Tim Winders: 00:50:49

to the economy and all that's going on?

Tim Winders: 00:50:51

We, I love talking to people that have lived through a few cycles.

Tim Winders: 00:50:57

Because I think we have unique perspective both, both macro cycles and micro,

Tim Winders: 00:51:01

both personally, you've gone through cycles, but also at the big level.

Tim Winders: 00:51:04

what are you seeing?

Tim Winders: 00:51:05

What are you saying?

Tim Winders: 00:51:06

what are you thinking about?

Tim Winders: 00:51:08

what's going on?

Tim Winders: 00:51:09

We don't have crystal balls, but we've been through some of this stuff.

Tim Winders: 00:51:11

So what is, what's Mike looking at right now with all of that?

Mike Morawski: 00:51:16

Yeah.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:16

So I, I see some.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:19

similarities to two thousand seven, eight, nine, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:51:25

But different.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:26

So if you look back in 2007 and eight.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:29

They were financing residential real estate at 125% of value and

Mike Morawski: 00:51:37

you could walk into a bank and get a loan for 80% of that 125% and 20%.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:45

So now you bought that 125% of value house.

Mike Morawski: 00:51:51

For no money down, which at the time was a great thing because they thought

Mike Morawski: 00:51:57

that the appreciation would continue.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:00

we all know what happened, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:52:01

All that bad paper, because it wasn't just good borrowers, but it was

Mike Morawski: 00:52:06

mediocre borrowers that were doing that.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:09

the joke used to be that if you could fog a mirror, you could get a loan, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:52:14

But, and then look what happened.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:16

but today you have a lot of equity in houses and you've

Mike Morawski: 00:52:20

got interest rates at 3%.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:22

People don't have to move.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:24

You don't have the foreclosure problem that we had in 2008, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:52:29

So although the market has slowed down, I think it's going to be a soft landing.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:34

I think the feds are trying to create something difficult,

Mike Morawski: 00:52:39

by raising interest rates.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:40

And even though they're raising interest rates, we're still not

Mike Morawski: 00:52:44

seeing the shortage in the workforce.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:47

employment is good, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:52:49

Still.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:50

So honestly, I don't know why people are just not doing it.

Mike Morawski: 00:52:58

there is a disconnect in the bid ask spread though, from what sellers

Mike Morawski: 00:53:02

want and sellers are still living in 2020 and 2021, you got to get out

Mike Morawski: 00:53:07

of that mode and come into reality.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:10

Pricing has to start to get down where, cap rates are.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:16

Or, for the pricing for cap rates, you can't be, you can't be selling deals

Mike Morawski: 00:53:21

today projected on tomorrow's value and don't be buying them at that either,

Mike Morawski: 00:53:28

make sure you're buying deals on exist.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:34

from a market standpoint, I, I think the feds will raise

Mike Morawski: 00:53:37

the rates a couple more times.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:39

I think they're gonna, continue to try and slow down what they're not able

Mike Morawski: 00:53:43

to haven't been able to slow down.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:45

and I think the market is going to bounce through this.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:49

we're going into an election year and, in the next couple of weeks.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:52

16 months, and, we're going to, we're going to cycle out of it.

Mike Morawski: 00:53:57

And I think we're going to come back bigger and better than

Mike Morawski: 00:53:59

ever, like we typically do.

Tim Winders: 00:54:04

and you could either take this for, the big picture economy or

Tim Winders: 00:54:07

even in the multifamily arena, what are some things that concern you?

Tim Winders: 00:54:13

Maybe about what you're seeing and then what are some things that excite you and I

Tim Winders: 00:54:16

love to ask questions like that for people that are of the age like you, you're in

Tim Winders: 00:54:20

your mid 60s now and, I love to ask what excites you, but what also concerns you,

Tim Winders: 00:54:25

I'm just, I don't think you wake up in the middle of the night and cold sweats

Tim Winders: 00:54:28

or anything like maybe you did a few years back, but, uh, what, what are you kind of

Tim Winders: 00:54:32

like going, we need to keep our eye on,

Mike Morawski: 00:54:37

I'm really tired of the, childish behavior in Washington.

Mike Morawski: 00:54:44

And I believe that if the Democrats and the Republicans

Mike Morawski: 00:54:50

can't make decisions together.

Mike Morawski: 00:54:53

Like they used to be able to do that.

Mike Morawski: 00:54:56

There's all this egg throwing at each other.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:00

We don't get, we don't get any better.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:02

so I'm concerned of that, that it's childish behavior.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:08

You're going to have this guy that's going to go run for office.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:11

You're going to have this guy or a woman that's going to go run for

Mike Morawski: 00:55:14

office and they're going to yell at each other and throw things

Mike Morawski: 00:55:19

at each other, rather than say.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:21

Hey, listen, if you, if I do this and you do this and we can work together,

Mike Morawski: 00:55:25

that's the thing that scares me.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:26

I don't know that this, that we can politically ever get back on track.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:30

I don't, that's the biggest thing that concerns me.

Mike Morawski: 00:55:33

And until we really do, I think that we'll grow, but it's just not going

Mike Morawski: 00:55:38

to be like we have in the past.

Tim Winders: 00:55:40

probably grow in spite of that.

Tim Winders: 00:55:42

And truthfully, they act like a, and I don't care which side people are on.

Tim Winders: 00:55:45

It doesn't matter.

Tim Winders: 00:55:45

Some people act like one side's better than the other.

Tim Winders: 00:55:48

No, I see a bunch of third graders that can't really make decisions, do things.

Tim Winders: 00:55:53

And so we entrepreneurs, business people are doing what we're doing

Tim Winders: 00:55:57

in spite of it, which means we take control as best we can.

Tim Winders: 00:56:02

So what excites you?

Mike Morawski: 00:56:03

Yeah, what excites me is that I am free.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:07

I'm out.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:07

I have the ability to go and build a future.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:11

it excites me the opportunity out there because as many people,

Mike Morawski: 00:56:16

you know, I mentioned earlier about the rhetoric, right?

Mike Morawski: 00:56:18

People are saying, Oh, don't do anything.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:20

It's a bad time because people have pulled back.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:23

That opens doors for more opportunity.

Mike Morawski: 00:56:26

So I'm seeking and looking for more opportunity and there's great deals

Mike Morawski: 00:56:31

out there, that we have, we've got a couple under contract right now that,

Mike Morawski: 00:56:36

we're marching towards closing on because the opportunity was so good.

Tim Winders: 00:56:42

Yeah, that's good.

Tim Winders: 00:56:43

one thing I know you've got is you've got a lot of resources for people.

Tim Winders: 00:56:47

we had great conversation.

Tim Winders: 00:56:49

We didn't do a deep dive into all the nuts and bolts of multifamily.

Tim Winders: 00:56:54

I think that's good.

Tim Winders: 00:56:55

I love the conversation we have because I think people got to learn about who Mike

Tim Winders: 00:56:59

is and probably a lot of people going, I want to do some work with that guy.

Tim Winders: 00:57:03

If someone just wants to connect, get more info on multifamily, I know you've got

Tim Winders: 00:57:07

podcast or training or possibly even in.

Tim Winders: 00:57:11

Invest, share now with us where all they can find you, what all you've got

Tim Winders: 00:57:16

available and we'll include things in the notes, but just go ahead and let people

Tim Winders: 00:57:20

know where, what all you've got available

Mike Morawski: 00:57:24

So we already know we've established the fact I love the network.

Mike Morawski: 00:57:28

And so I try to put a little bit out there for everybody, wherever you hang out on

Mike Morawski: 00:57:33

social media, whether it's YouTube, go and subscribe to my YouTube channel, whether

Mike Morawski: 00:57:38

it's Facebook, cause you're our age.

Mike Morawski: 00:57:40

Go to my, immunity at multifamily unplug.

Mike Morawski: 00:57:44

I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, tick tock, I'm always trying to put something

Mike Morawski: 00:57:50

out that will be beneficial, educational, inspiring, something that's going to

Mike Morawski: 00:57:55

help somebody, My goal is it, Tim, if you're having a bad day and you're just

Mike Morawski: 00:58:00

a little down and I could put something out to make you laugh or to make you

Mike Morawski: 00:58:04

inspired, I did my job today, anywhere on social media, you could go to my

Mike Morawski: 00:58:10

website, at Mike Murawski dot com and check out coaching, check out my books,

Mike Morawski: 00:58:16

whatever, you need, send me an email, call me, whatever, if you want to network.

Mike Morawski: 00:58:22

You've got questions.

Mike Morawski: 00:58:23

I'm here.

Tim Winders: 00:58:25

and podcast, right?

Tim Winders: 00:58:26

Insider secrets.

Tim Winders: 00:58:27

Is that right?

Mike Morawski: 00:58:28

Yeah, I actually have two podcasts.

Mike Morawski: 00:58:30

I have a insider secrets and multifamily unplug, which is a video cast.

Mike Morawski: 00:58:38

But Insider Secrets is a podcast on Apple and Spotify.

Tim Winders: 00:58:42

Yeah, good.

Tim Winders: 00:58:43

So some people are probably catching this on YouTube.

Tim Winders: 00:58:45

Some are doing it on podcasts.

Tim Winders: 00:58:46

They could jump to those there.

Tim Winders: 00:58:49

And that's for people that really want to do a deeper

Tim Winders: 00:58:51

dive into multifamily, correct?

Mike Morawski: 00:58:54

Absolutely.

Tim Winders: 00:58:55

Very good, Mike.

Tim Winders: 00:58:56

Thanks for that.

Tim Winders: 00:58:56

And we'll include links for everything.

Tim Winders: 00:58:58

I recommend people go check all that out.

Tim Winders: 00:59:00

We are seek go create.

Tim Winders: 00:59:02

Those are the three names that are in our title.

Tim Winders: 00:59:04

I'm gonna let you pick one of those words over the other two.

Tim Winders: 00:59:07

That just means more resonates more with you now at this time,

Tim Winders: 00:59:10

which word do you choose and why?

Mike Morawski: 00:59:14

I think that, we're all seeking something and, the more

Mike Morawski: 00:59:19

you seek, the more doors that open up and then ultimately, take some action

Tim Winders: 00:59:26

Excellent.

Mike Morawski: 00:59:26

or go create.

Tim Winders: 00:59:28

Excellent.

Tim Winders: 00:59:29

Mike, thanks for this conversation, man.

Tim Winders: 00:59:31

I have truly loved this conversation for so many reasons and enjoyed

Tim Winders: 00:59:37

that we're able to get to a deeper level and just connect.

Tim Winders: 00:59:40

I loved the networking opportunity over the last hour.

Tim Winders: 00:59:44

If you're listening in.

Tim Winders: 00:59:45

Go check out podcasts, go check out his resources.

Tim Winders: 00:59:48

I highly recommend you're probably listening to a podcast.

Tim Winders: 00:59:50

Now just jump over and listen in.

Tim Winders: 00:59:52

I think you'll get a little bit more of a Mike Murawski and all

Tim Winders: 00:59:55

that he's doing and probably learn some things about multifamily.

Tim Winders: 00:59:59

If you don't already know some things about that, I think that'll be beneficial.

Tim Winders: 01:00:02

And one other thing too.

Tim Winders: 01:00:05

We went through a lot of deep conversation here, and I always like to ask, someone

Tim Winders: 01:00:11

if you've listened to this point, you know, someone that needs to hear some

Tim Winders: 01:00:16

of the messages that Mike mentioned in his story that may have spent some

Tim Winders: 01:00:21

time in prison may have gone through some of the ups and downs that he did.

Tim Winders: 01:00:24

Share this episode with them.

Tim Winders: 01:00:27

That's one of the, one of the best ways that people get exposed to

Tim Winders: 01:00:30

messages and podcasts like this.

Tim Winders: 01:00:32

So please share that.

Tim Winders: 01:00:34

I appreciate you listening in.

Tim Winders: 01:00:35

I appreciate Mike taking the time.

Tim Winders: 01:00:37

We have new episodes every Monday until next time continue being