Finding Purpose Behind Bars: The Miracles and Transformation of RJ Johnson

Speaker: 00:00:00

In order to truly deal with your own mess, in order to truly

Speaker: 00:00:03

deal with your distortions and the things that are going on in

Speaker: 00:00:07

my life, you have to get to a mindset of

Speaker: 00:00:11

taking responsibility, taking ownership,

Speaker: 00:00:15

not playing the victim.

Speaker: 00:00:29

Do you ever wonder if God is really working all things

Speaker: 00:00:32

for your good? You know that scripture we all quote from Romans 8 when things

Speaker: 00:00:36

do not look good in our lives? Today on seek, go create, we

Speaker: 00:00:40

welcome RJ Johnson, a man whose journey is a

Speaker: 00:00:43

testament to this scripture. RJ, the author of God

Speaker: 00:00:47

Doesn't Waste a Thing under the pen name Luke Chants, Cheers the

Speaker: 00:00:51

miracles he's witnessed and experienced during his 7 years in prison that

Speaker: 00:00:55

he served out of a 20 year sentence. Through

Speaker: 00:00:58

his NotMyWill Ministries, RJ is on a mission to deliver hope

Speaker: 00:01:02

to the church behind bars and educate the community about

Speaker: 00:01:06

the ongoing miracles Performed by god. He

Speaker: 00:01:09

challenges us to look beyond the walls of prison and see the hearts

Speaker: 00:01:13

yearning for redemption and love.

Speaker: 00:01:16

RJ, welcome to SeatGoCreate.

Speaker: 00:01:20

My true pleasure to be here, Tim. Thank you for the invite. This

Speaker: 00:01:24

is something I've had on a bucket list since I met you, so let's do

Speaker: 00:01:28

this, bro. Cool. Gonna have fun. I wanna start with my

Speaker: 00:01:31

Question that I ask. I don't know if I ask you this, we met a

Speaker: 00:01:34

little less than a month ago. We were introduced by a good buddy of mine,

Speaker: 00:01:36

Caleb, at a networking event up in Denver, And I

Speaker: 00:01:40

usually will ask what you do. So, if I bump

Speaker: 00:01:44

into you somewhere, I don't know if I asked that or not when we met,

Speaker: 00:01:47

but If somebody asks you what you do, what do you usually tell people?

Speaker: 00:01:51

And I, a mentor of mine often says that in most of our

Speaker: 00:01:55

lives, we have a purpose and a paycheck. And so

Speaker: 00:01:59

what I do for my paycheck right now is I do sales for

Speaker: 00:02:03

an unbelievable IT company called Uncommon Solutions, get to meet a

Speaker: 00:02:07

lot of great people and introduce them to a really great company. The

Speaker: 00:02:10

passion, purpose is what you said in my intro.

Speaker: 00:02:14

I I try to connect hearts out in the community with

Speaker: 00:02:17

hearts and souls inside of a prison. So what do I

Speaker: 00:02:21

do? I try to share Joy, I try to spread love and

Speaker: 00:02:25

hope because I was the recipient of

Speaker: 00:02:28

love, hope, grace, mercy when

Speaker: 00:02:32

I felt alone, isolated, and, like, I didn't deserve any of

Speaker: 00:02:35

those. So I try to align the holy spirit as

Speaker: 00:02:39

often as I can. The reason that's a good answer to the question, you and

Speaker: 00:02:43

I were talking about this a little bit before we hit record. It's sometimes

Speaker: 00:02:47

a very superficial question. What do you do? I'm in sales. And we give

Speaker: 00:02:50

a title. I know where your heart is. You were giving me a

Speaker: 00:02:54

little more of identity type things Right out of

Speaker: 00:02:58

the gate there, which I like. I I like that a lot. Yeah. You and

Speaker: 00:03:01

I connected and connected really well, and one of the things that

Speaker: 00:03:05

we do here at Seek, go create as we love

Speaker: 00:03:09

stories about redefining success

Speaker: 00:03:13

because In our culture, in our society, in our world, there is

Speaker: 00:03:16

this thought, this perception, this idea of success,

Speaker: 00:03:20

and sometimes people Will go through life and maybe they never have

Speaker: 00:03:24

questions about it and all that, but some of us go through these

Speaker: 00:03:27

experiences where We are forced to

Speaker: 00:03:31

redefine or rethink it, and I believe your story

Speaker: 00:03:35

that I've heard, and I haven't heard a lot of them, looking forward to this

Speaker: 00:03:37

conversation, really personifies that. Alright. So when

Speaker: 00:03:41

I start off and I say that somebody spent time in prison,

Speaker: 00:03:45

someone is gonna Immediately wanna know, okay, we need to know

Speaker: 00:03:49

a little bit more about that before we start talking about all the ministry and

Speaker: 00:03:52

stuff that's going on. So Sure. Let's just give a

Speaker: 00:03:56

real quick kind of what happened and how that came

Speaker: 00:04:00

to be, whatever you wanna share there, And then we'll we'll

Speaker: 00:04:04

talk about the all things, scripture from Romans

Speaker: 00:04:07

8 that that we started off with.

Speaker: 00:04:11

That's really funny that you don't know yet how impactful and

Speaker: 00:04:15

how pivotal of a moment in my life, Romans 8/28 was. You'll get a good,

Speaker: 00:04:18

good chuckle out of it if we happen to wander down that road. But

Speaker: 00:04:22

how I landed inside of a prison serving 7

Speaker: 00:04:26

years, thankfully, only 7 out of a 20 year sentence

Speaker: 00:04:29

was in 2012, I made the decision to

Speaker: 00:04:33

sexually assault a high school student of mine, and

Speaker: 00:04:37

that is the catalyst for which coming to know the Lord,

Speaker: 00:04:41

mhmm, going through a whole lot of

Speaker: 00:04:45

transgressions, heartache, tragedy,

Speaker: 00:04:49

isolation, loneliness, like all the verbs,

Speaker: 00:04:52

good, bad, ugly, scary, Death threats.

Speaker: 00:04:57

All of that stuff fell upon me because of my choice.

Speaker: 00:05:00

That I made Circumstances come from

Speaker: 00:05:04

my decisions. And that's what got me

Speaker: 00:05:08

to where, Thankfully, all things work

Speaker: 00:05:12

together for good, even when you don't see it, certainly when you don't believe it

Speaker: 00:05:16

or feel it, he's still working those things out. Alright, RJ, I

Speaker: 00:05:19

want, I'm doing this question for the listener. I've talked to you more, but

Speaker: 00:05:23

for the listener, there are some people that were

Speaker: 00:05:27

extremely repulsed And turned off immediately when they

Speaker: 00:05:30

heard you sexually assaulted a student. I want you to real

Speaker: 00:05:34

quickly tell the listener why they need to keep listening

Speaker: 00:05:38

To this conversation. Yeah, it

Speaker: 00:05:41

is a horrible act. It was an absolutely

Speaker: 00:05:46

The legal assaultive wrong thing. And

Speaker: 00:05:50

all sin is I hope the listener can hang in there and get past some

Speaker: 00:05:54

of their personal views of it. I'm not proud of it. I there's

Speaker: 00:05:58

it's not like I'm standing here today trying to glorify that at all. It

Speaker: 00:06:01

hurt a lot of people. But If you can hang

Speaker: 00:06:05

in, hopefully, you'll get the whole gist of what my mission and

Speaker: 00:06:09

my purpose is now, which is to Share

Speaker: 00:06:13

that God is in the miracle business, and he will show up

Speaker: 00:06:17

in the thing that usually most people

Speaker: 00:06:20

say keeps us held back or keeps us knocked down

Speaker: 00:06:24

or keeps us living in shame or keeps us being afraid. That's the

Speaker: 00:06:28

reason I hope you stay and listen. If you have to walk away, if you

Speaker: 00:06:31

have something too close to it and your the history or someone in your

Speaker: 00:06:34

family's got it's a little too close to home.

Speaker: 00:06:38

I honor that seek some help reach out. My goal here is

Speaker: 00:06:42

not to traumatize or trigger anyone. It's to point

Speaker: 00:06:46

all of this back to Jesus in that There's redemption.

Speaker: 00:06:50

There's grace. There's love and there's always

Speaker: 00:06:54

hope. Yeah. And there there's A book in ministry and all at the

Speaker: 00:06:58

end of this, God doesn't waste a thing. I guess one thing I'd like

Speaker: 00:07:02

to do maybe is to just for a little more Context, and

Speaker: 00:07:05

you can share what you want to about the any

Speaker: 00:07:09

other circumstances That's because one

Speaker: 00:07:13

of the things that I know is that

Speaker: 00:07:16

people listening in myself, others are always at

Speaker: 00:07:20

various levels of mindset. And you mentioned sin and people

Speaker: 00:07:24

are all at various levels of

Speaker: 00:07:27

sin, just, you know, reaching its Tentacles into our lives. And

Speaker: 00:07:31

so I would really like to, again, we're all about the

Speaker: 00:07:35

redefining success here and You were,

Speaker: 00:07:39

had an appearance of success. Had I known you years

Speaker: 00:07:43

ago? I probably would have looked at you and thought

Speaker: 00:07:46

Pretty cool guy, got a lot going on and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker: 00:07:50

And so whatever your and and I know you shared a lot of your story

Speaker: 00:07:54

here. We don't wanna go into a ton of things, but What can you share

Speaker: 00:07:56

about those circumstances so that we can understand the mindset of RJ

Speaker: 00:08:00

then, and now we can certainly get get your mindset now?

Speaker: 00:08:06

I think the simplest way, the biggest difference is my

Speaker: 00:08:09

mindset then, 1, I had no

Speaker: 00:08:13

identity Certainly in the Lord, but my

Speaker: 00:08:17

identity was wrapped up solely in what I believed.

Speaker: 00:08:21

People thought felt and said about me.

Speaker: 00:08:25

And from that bread, a life of entitlement, a life of

Speaker: 00:08:29

manipulation, and a life of massive attention

Speaker: 00:08:32

seeking. Every single thing was about me. How can I benefit? How can

Speaker: 00:08:36

I receive A good

Speaker: 00:08:39

feeling? And it was a very selfish life

Speaker: 00:08:43

now. Lord willing. You can see that you can hear that people

Speaker: 00:08:47

who know me can validate that and say that I

Speaker: 00:08:50

choose now to live 1 for God and 2 for the person in front of

Speaker: 00:08:53

me, giving them attention, giving them the honor and

Speaker: 00:08:57

respect that they deserve and trying to always push into

Speaker: 00:09:02

love even when it's hard. So what was your spiritual life growing

Speaker: 00:09:05

up? Did you have 1? Yeah.

Speaker: 00:09:09

What was it? Nonexistent. But I do think we

Speaker: 00:09:13

We make stuff our idols and our gods, and we have choices

Speaker: 00:09:17

related to that. So maybe the better question is you already mentioned You're self

Speaker: 00:09:21

serving and things like that, but, what was your idols and your

Speaker: 00:09:24

gods growing up?

Speaker: 00:09:28

Popularity, attention,

Speaker: 00:09:33

things I could control. I probably made some sort of an idol. When you

Speaker: 00:09:37

don't really know where to place your eyes, When you don't know what

Speaker: 00:09:41

to set your beliefs on until I firmly plant your feet

Speaker: 00:09:44

into something, you just kind of grasp for things that

Speaker: 00:09:48

make you feel Good and comfortable in the moment.

Speaker: 00:09:53

And I did that a lot with organizing

Speaker: 00:09:57

with trying to be the center of attention with constantly saying yes and

Speaker: 00:10:00

appeasing those people who are around me. I didn't wanna deal with my

Speaker: 00:10:04

own insecurities and my own lack of self worth,

Speaker: 00:10:08

but I was constantly involved in a big group of

Speaker: 00:10:12

friends. And the beauty of hindsight being able to look

Speaker: 00:10:16

back now on that, you wouldn't have looked at my life and thought that's an

Speaker: 00:10:19

unloved kid. I have amazing parents. They're both very loving still to this

Speaker: 00:10:23

day. You wouldn't look and say that guy has

Speaker: 00:10:27

no ability to communicate in public. I was very social.

Speaker: 00:10:31

But deep down, it's what was I seeking? I was seeking

Speaker: 00:10:34

for the next friend, the friend to laugh at my joke, the friend to come

Speaker: 00:10:38

over. I was seeking for something to fill that hole, which

Speaker: 00:10:42

was basically, like, who am I, and what am I supposed to

Speaker: 00:10:46

do? And so If you're constantly around friends and

Speaker: 00:10:50

noise and activities and attention, you don't have

Speaker: 00:10:53

to deal with your own insecurities, your

Speaker: 00:10:57

own truth. The the question that most people ask and

Speaker: 00:11:01

hopefully are listening to here today is, like, what am I called to

Speaker: 00:11:05

do? What is my purpose right now within this

Speaker: 00:11:08

environment? I think what's interesting is a lot

Speaker: 00:11:11

of, My guess is you were because just for meeting you, you seem like

Speaker: 00:11:15

were you an athlete in school and all that? Yep. Athlete, probably a pretty

Speaker: 00:11:19

good athlete. Chunky one. Probably, you could tell me if I'm right

Speaker: 00:11:23

around, probably part of the cool kids growing up and stuff like that. Would

Speaker: 00:11:26

that be right? Yep. Yep. And you used the

Speaker: 00:11:30

word earlier entitled. So I I've noticed this some about

Speaker: 00:11:34

myself. I might have been

Speaker: 00:11:38

included in that group growing up and things like that,

Speaker: 00:11:41

and there there does start to creep in this thought of

Speaker: 00:11:46

That maybe I get to

Speaker: 00:11:50

do things that others don't. I can Get away with

Speaker: 00:11:54

things, different things like that. And I do

Speaker: 00:11:58

notice, and this is a man problem mostly, I guess, women deal with it, but

Speaker: 00:12:01

we're both men, so we're gonna have to talk like men, is that,

Speaker: 00:12:05

when it starts coming into how we deal with

Speaker: 00:12:09

women, primarily the opposite sex and porn and

Speaker: 00:12:12

different things like that, we start thinking

Speaker: 00:12:16

that certain things don't apply to us. And

Speaker: 00:12:20

I'm guessing that that was part of the seed that kind of led to

Speaker: 00:12:23

your transgression and some of the issues. Correct?

Speaker: 00:12:27

Yeah. That's very accurate when you're not in the mindset

Speaker: 00:12:31

to use words like honor and

Speaker: 00:12:35

Support and love you try to find.

Speaker: 00:12:40

Value in anything that's around you at the expense

Speaker: 00:12:44

of who it hurts, what it does to that person,

Speaker: 00:12:48

what it does to that community. And.

Speaker: 00:12:52

Pornography is such a massive problem in society. It's

Speaker: 00:12:55

often preached from the pulpit, but it's very rarely

Speaker: 00:12:59

shared or confessed from out in the seats. Because, like your question

Speaker: 00:13:03

asked earlier, what if someone is listening right now and they immediately got turned off?

Speaker: 00:13:07

It's one of the few crimes that is completely done in

Speaker: 00:13:11

secret. And that's

Speaker: 00:13:15

Not trying to get too philosophical here, but if you can

Speaker: 00:13:18

keep something secret, that means you don't have to truly deal with it and

Speaker: 00:13:22

certainly confess it or speak it to your brothers or sisters.

Speaker: 00:13:28

And that is an issue growing up, and it's

Speaker: 00:13:33

It may start off as what you believe in a scent and,

Speaker: 00:13:37

it's just a little bit of an issue. I learned in treatment that

Speaker: 00:13:40

there's a thing called problem. What problem? Oh, that thing?

Speaker: 00:13:44

Yeah. That's not a problem for me. That's a bad

Speaker: 00:13:48

place to be in. There's a lot of distortions that live out of that and

Speaker: 00:13:51

a lot of unhealthy, dangerous, assaultive decisions that come from

Speaker: 00:13:55

that mindset. And

Speaker: 00:14:00

one of the things, let me go here for the quote, for

Speaker: 00:14:04

A period of time, because I think this is something I've observed in

Speaker: 00:14:08

myself and others and especially leaders that we

Speaker: 00:14:11

see In our culture and society today

Speaker: 00:14:15

is there's a lot of stuff going on in secret. There's a lot

Speaker: 00:14:19

of stuff there. And I think a lot of

Speaker: 00:14:23

people feel like it's okay until

Speaker: 00:14:27

they get caught. And and then,

Speaker: 00:14:31

RJ, we see these kinda odd things go on. Sometimes we have these people

Speaker: 00:14:34

who give these canned speeches of apology,

Speaker: 00:14:39

whatever, and a lot of this is in the political realm and things like that.

Speaker: 00:14:42

But I am sure that there are phases

Speaker: 00:14:46

to That process.

Speaker: 00:14:50

And so here's the question that I have for you. I mean, I think there's,

Speaker: 00:14:55

the I got caught, and then there's the,

Speaker: 00:14:59

oh, there could be repercussions, and then there's the,

Speaker: 00:15:03

What am I gonna do to limit the damage? I'm walking through different things

Speaker: 00:15:07

just to give you some things you could pull from. And then

Speaker: 00:15:10

and I'm not sure that everybody gets to this place. There is what we would

Speaker: 00:15:14

term in our spiritual walk a repentance, an actual

Speaker: 00:15:18

turning away from Something walk

Speaker: 00:15:22

me through again, I told you when we started, I'd like to get into your

Speaker: 00:15:25

mindset here about where you went through

Speaker: 00:15:28

That process, because

Speaker: 00:15:32

when you got caught, when it was found out, were was it like,

Speaker: 00:15:37

Oh, no. I'm repenting, or was there all of a sudden

Speaker: 00:15:40

bars you hear the sound of the bars closing aside

Speaker: 00:15:44

now, or is it Still working through it. What what work through a

Speaker: 00:15:48

little bit of those phases because I think that

Speaker: 00:15:52

entitlement that we talked about earlier, RJ, I think The

Speaker: 00:15:56

way we think about ourselves and things like that. I think it

Speaker: 00:15:59

impacts how quickly we maybe repent. I

Speaker: 00:16:03

don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, it's a super

Speaker: 00:16:07

deep question. When I have not been asked the quick answer.

Speaker: 00:16:11

As I look at the clock to see how quick actually this will be is

Speaker: 00:16:15

didn't know I didn't know the word repentance for a

Speaker: 00:16:19

long time, so that certainly didn't filter into any part of

Speaker: 00:16:22

my vocabulary or my mindset. But I've

Speaker: 00:16:26

learned since then that In order

Speaker: 00:16:30

to truly deal with your own mess, in order to truly deal with

Speaker: 00:16:33

your distortions and the things that are going on in my

Speaker: 00:16:37

life, You have to get to a mindset of taking

Speaker: 00:16:41

responsibility, taking ownership,

Speaker: 00:16:45

not playing the victim, not saying this

Speaker: 00:16:49

happened, but I would like to have nothing but good things

Speaker: 00:16:53

come my way. And so I'm trying to Choose my words to where it's not

Speaker: 00:16:56

so and people who are listening can hear this. It's

Speaker: 00:17:00

I found so often that People wanna be judged off of their

Speaker: 00:17:04

best intentions, but they wanna judge others

Speaker: 00:17:07

by their worst moments. And so

Speaker: 00:17:11

doing that for myself even, like, going through and making a list

Speaker: 00:17:15

of all the things that I did that were good and all the things that

Speaker: 00:17:18

I did that were trying to help others, Like, that's what you should be judging

Speaker: 00:17:22

me off of. Because if we get into the parts

Speaker: 00:17:26

that were really difficult inside of prison for me, A lot of it was when

Speaker: 00:17:29

I was getting people coming at me, judging me,

Speaker: 00:17:34

threatening me, asking me questions. Well, Tim, I

Speaker: 00:17:38

for the 1st 18, 24 months,

Speaker: 00:17:42

if not longer, I wanted

Speaker: 00:17:46

0 things to do with telling the truth

Speaker: 00:17:49

to random people who came across my path. It wasn't

Speaker: 00:17:53

until I ran into a couple of my mentors that said one of the

Speaker: 00:17:57

most powerful things ever to me. And know what, Tim? I didn't even respond to

Speaker: 00:18:00

it how I was supposed to for another 2 years. And

Speaker: 00:18:04

he said, RJ, the power is in the

Speaker: 00:18:08

secret. You keeping this a

Speaker: 00:18:12

secret is feeding into the fear of what will actually happen if

Speaker: 00:18:15

you're honest, if you take responsibility, if you choose

Speaker: 00:18:20

to give this to God And let him work this

Speaker: 00:18:23

out. You're choosing. I

Speaker: 00:18:27

don't trust that. I trust him with all these other things, but I don't trust

Speaker: 00:18:30

him. With sharing my truth, which is feeding right

Speaker: 00:18:34

into to Satan saying, yeah, go ahead. See what happens. Tell the

Speaker: 00:18:38

truth. Watch how these people turn on you. Watch how they

Speaker: 00:18:41

try to kill you again. Watch how every person that you think loves

Speaker: 00:18:45

you runs away. And

Speaker: 00:18:49

so it was a long walk and it wasn't until I

Speaker: 00:18:53

was truly able to sit back. Look at my

Speaker: 00:18:57

decisions, my choices,

Speaker: 00:19:01

my distortions, and start

Speaker: 00:19:04

aligning it with what do I say about

Speaker: 00:19:08

myself versus what does God say about me?

Speaker: 00:19:11

That's when you can start to deal with repentance.

Speaker: 00:19:15

For me, that's when I could start to deal with

Speaker: 00:19:19

Feelings versus truth. And

Speaker: 00:19:23

Chaplain, Matt always does this Feelings

Speaker: 00:19:26

do this. They go back and forth constantly.

Speaker: 00:19:30

The truth, the Bible, what God says is here. It doesn't

Speaker: 00:19:34

change. So you take that feeling and you bring it to truth.

Speaker: 00:19:37

The feeling, if I actually tell Tim today, here

Speaker: 00:19:41

in 2023, What I actually did, he's

Speaker: 00:19:45

gonna turn his podcast off and we're gonna lose a friendship. The truth

Speaker: 00:19:48

is I am loved. I'm covered. And God

Speaker: 00:19:52

has only good things for me. He's gonna bring great things into my path.

Speaker: 00:19:57

That was impactful, but it still wasn't like life's easy. No

Speaker: 00:20:01

more feelings issues. It it's been a walk, man, and it's

Speaker: 00:20:04

taken a lot of great friends to come alongside and be

Speaker: 00:20:08

like, What's that what's that feeling we're living in right now?

Speaker: 00:20:13

What is the truth about your situation? And how

Speaker: 00:20:16

can we deal with that and align that to

Speaker: 00:20:20

God's word? Yeah. The interesting thing is

Speaker: 00:20:25

When you walk through that, that, if I tell Tim what happened,

Speaker: 00:20:29

but yet that's That journey is

Speaker: 00:20:33

what attracted me for us to have this conversation,

Speaker: 00:20:36

and it opened that We're at a networking event about business. And

Speaker: 00:20:41

After 2 questions, we're talking about me sexually assaulting

Speaker: 00:20:44

someone. And I made the decision, like,

Speaker: 00:20:48

year 6a half, 6.75

Speaker: 00:20:51

that I'm going to choose to live focusing on 3

Speaker: 00:20:55

words. Yeah. Being transparent, being vulnerable

Speaker: 00:20:59

and being intentional. Well, that mean gonna have to lay out your truth and

Speaker: 00:21:02

trust that what's gonna happen is gonna happen. Yeah. I I wanna

Speaker: 00:21:06

say something right here because I actually am seeing the video, and I actually

Speaker: 00:21:10

saw myself smiling when you brought

Speaker: 00:21:13

up Sexually assaulting. And I wanna tell people that we are in no

Speaker: 00:21:17

way attempting to be insensitive to

Speaker: 00:21:21

the crime, and we'll call it that. We're attempting

Speaker: 00:21:24

To have conversation about,

Speaker: 00:21:28

the person that initiated the crime and what they can

Speaker: 00:21:32

do to get to a place that's beyond that and

Speaker: 00:21:36

miracles. We're gonna talk about that here shortly. But, RJ, one

Speaker: 00:21:40

other one other Quick thing, and then we'll move along and fast forward and get

Speaker: 00:21:43

you into prison so that we can talk about some things that happened there. And,

Speaker: 00:21:47

again, my please, my sense of humor. People that listen in know I

Speaker: 00:21:51

am in no way making light of the situation. I'm actually

Speaker: 00:21:54

attempting to soften a very sit serious situation, so

Speaker: 00:21:58

please give me a little bit of grace. My my regular

Speaker: 00:22:01

listeners, I think, will will definitely do that. But,

Speaker: 00:22:05

RJ, Elisa, I think Kubler Ross, In going through the stages of

Speaker: 00:22:09

grief, and you may have done this when you went through therapy and things like

Speaker: 00:22:11

that, talks about the different stages, denial, and then

Speaker: 00:22:15

there's Different things like that. My guess is

Speaker: 00:22:19

and, you know, you can kinda say yay or nay. My guess is is

Speaker: 00:22:23

when this initially, came to a

Speaker: 00:22:26

head that you possibly blamed

Speaker: 00:22:30

others, you know, your Your spouse, the

Speaker: 00:22:33

victim, and all that. And then I wanna bring that up here for a specific

Speaker: 00:22:37

reason. So is that was that in the realm when you first

Speaker: 00:22:41

Got caught, I'll say. Is that okay to say?

Speaker: 00:22:46

Yeah. I don't have the words to explain, like,

Speaker: 00:22:49

The amount of fear that was washing over me of what my choices are

Speaker: 00:22:53

gonna actually lead to leads to a ton of wrong,

Speaker: 00:22:57

negative, unhealthy thinking. Anybody other than

Speaker: 00:23:01

myself, I want to point to and try to

Speaker: 00:23:05

act like they had a role to play in it. But the bottom line

Speaker: 00:23:08

is it was me, and that's that's a pretty crappy place to

Speaker: 00:23:12

be when you're scrounging for anything. But the

Speaker: 00:23:16

only thing you can deal with when you're in an 8 by 8 cell and

Speaker: 00:23:19

the 1st time those bars close is, oh,

Speaker: 00:23:23

I'm here because of what I chose to do

Speaker: 00:23:26

nobody else. You don't land there right away. If

Speaker: 00:23:30

someone does that right away, amen. Power to you. You're gonna, You're an

Speaker: 00:23:34

awfully long ways further than I was day 1. So

Speaker: 00:23:39

let's move along here and

Speaker: 00:23:43

Transgression crime occurred. You are caught,

Speaker: 00:23:46

you go to prison and You're in

Speaker: 00:23:50

the you're in the prison system, and there there are a

Speaker: 00:23:54

lot of people listening in. We've actually interviewed about 3 or 4 people that have

Speaker: 00:23:58

In the prison, interviewed one that I'm might even link to this. It's a

Speaker: 00:24:01

fascinating conversation with Kwan Hung that actually shot and

Speaker: 00:24:05

killed someone And went through the prison system and then was released, and

Speaker: 00:24:09

so fascinating story with some

Speaker: 00:24:12

similar themes that's very interesting. But

Speaker: 00:24:16

So you're in the prison system, and, definitely not

Speaker: 00:24:20

a fun thing, I'm sure. So what do you wanna what do you

Speaker: 00:24:24

wanna tell about that that really have no idea what

Speaker: 00:24:27

you're talking about when you talk about being behind bars.

Speaker: 00:24:31

Yeah. It there were some really bad times. Like, I'm, again, not making

Speaker: 00:24:35

light of it. Brutal truths, and there are some terrible evenings.

Speaker: 00:24:39

I often say I I don't wanna spend another night in prison, but I am

Speaker: 00:24:43

always excited to go back in. And one of

Speaker: 00:24:46

the most real moments, themes in

Speaker: 00:24:50

my life was almost

Speaker: 00:24:54

without fail. Anybody I speak to in there, if you ask him, like, what was

Speaker: 00:24:58

your life like before this, you start mentioning or naming

Speaker: 00:25:01

things, items in your life. I had a big house. I had

Speaker: 00:25:05

multiple cars. I made this much money. My wife was there. My

Speaker: 00:25:09

career was this. My friend circle. When you go to prison,

Speaker: 00:25:13

Everybody's put on a level playing field. You get the same

Speaker: 00:25:17

3 in Colorado, green shirts and green pants, a

Speaker: 00:25:20

few white undershirts. You get the same garbage y boots,

Speaker: 00:25:25

the same food, and the same pay until you kinda get further

Speaker: 00:25:28

in your sentence, and you can get different jobs. When everything is level.

Speaker: 00:25:32

That's why they take your name, your number.

Speaker: 00:25:36

Now it's pretty apparent, like, we've gotta do some identity

Speaker: 00:25:40

work. We've got to figure out who are we when there are

Speaker: 00:25:45

no jobs or accolades or rounds of applause or coaching

Speaker: 00:25:49

wins or 6,000 square feet, or

Speaker: 00:25:53

who are you now? And what are you gonna do?

Speaker: 00:25:58

And Tim I've had Hands down the best

Speaker: 00:26:01

times in my life in prison when I was working as

Speaker: 00:26:05

a prison chaplain's assistant for 87¢ a day.

Speaker: 00:26:09

It's quite a ways into the story. It took me a minute to get there.

Speaker: 00:26:14

But my purpose was so clear to me to

Speaker: 00:26:17

love the person who came through the door to not focus on

Speaker: 00:26:21

me to without a doubt focus on.

Speaker: 00:26:25

And I call it in the book, Me 3, God first, the person in

Speaker: 00:26:29

front of me, 2nd, Me 3, I'm 3rd.

Speaker: 00:26:32

That lines up with a lot of joy that lines up

Speaker: 00:26:36

with what God's called us to do.

Speaker: 00:26:40

To be there for your brother's iron sharpens iron, what you're doing right now. It's

Speaker: 00:26:43

what you do every day with your podcast. You help people

Speaker: 00:26:47

seek who they are. Go and find

Speaker: 00:26:50

who your identity is and who says it is about you. Then

Speaker: 00:26:54

create an amazing life for those around you. I love it. I love the idea

Speaker: 00:26:58

of what you do. And so in prison to go there, my

Speaker: 00:27:01

first 3 days. I had a group of

Speaker: 00:27:05

Nazis try to kill me because of what my crime was. They found out, they

Speaker: 00:27:08

said you're not welcome in this room. And my choice was

Speaker: 00:27:12

to deal with option a fight.

Speaker: 00:27:16

All the time until I quit or die

Speaker: 00:27:19

or b go run and tell the cops I can't deal with this. It's called

Speaker: 00:27:23

checking in. Did that within the 1st 3 days,

Speaker: 00:27:26

man. And I got 240 months left.

Speaker: 00:27:30

I get to another prison and I make it 6 months

Speaker: 00:27:34

before my crime comes out once again.

Speaker: 00:27:38

And this time I was pulled out of my cell

Speaker: 00:27:42

and I later learned this under an hour before

Speaker: 00:27:46

An actual murder attempt was going to take place.

Speaker: 00:27:50

And I've done nothing to these guys other than I chose to do what

Speaker: 00:27:53

I did in 2012. And in

Speaker: 00:27:57

prison, there's an ironically weird hierarchy

Speaker: 00:28:01

of, at least I'm better than that guy,

Speaker: 00:28:05

which keeps you from wanting to share your truth when even when

Speaker: 00:28:08

people find out what you've done ish, they wanna kill

Speaker: 00:28:12

you. No. That's not okay. That's not ideal,

Speaker: 00:28:15

but the book's called God Doesn't Waste a Thing. I didn't know God.

Speaker: 00:28:19

I had no idea. I was that selfish person. Like, why are you guys doing

Speaker: 00:28:23

this stuff to me? I didn't do anything to you. Blaming

Speaker: 00:28:27

other people. Being the victim. Will God, even

Speaker: 00:28:30

if you don't ever say the name God, he's still working

Speaker: 00:28:34

and loving and creating an Unbelievable masterpiece

Speaker: 00:28:38

for your life to play itself into. And that was what was

Speaker: 00:28:42

cool was those 2 murder attempts. Not

Speaker: 00:28:46

fun. Terrible for me. Terrible for my family is what

Speaker: 00:28:49

God used to get me to the prison where I met

Speaker: 00:28:53

Mentors of my life gave my life to Lord and found my purpose.

Speaker: 00:28:58

And that's where a lot of these miracles show up where it's,

Speaker: 00:29:02

this is the coolest thing ever, Tim. Not happy

Speaker: 00:29:06

for what I did to get here, but I'm here.

Speaker: 00:29:10

And what can we do to love and share and encourage

Speaker: 00:29:13

those right now in the middle of this Pain in

Speaker: 00:29:17

the middle of this shame, in the middle of this tragedy.

Speaker: 00:29:22

That's the really cool part. I just shared that this morning at a at a

Speaker: 00:29:25

men's group of most people. If we can just fix this one thing about

Speaker: 00:29:29

my life, then I'll be able to do something. God shows

Speaker: 00:29:33

up In that thing.

Speaker: 00:29:37

And begin to see create his masterpiece. God showed up in the prison. It

Speaker: 00:29:40

wasn't When I get out of here, we'll start to paint a beautiful future.

Speaker: 00:29:44

No. No. It was in the darkness where he shows

Speaker: 00:29:48

up. He's in the fire. He's there. Right. RJ, what is

Speaker: 00:29:51

up with the pecking order

Speaker: 00:29:56

for crime, or I'll even go I'll jump out To

Speaker: 00:29:59

church world. What is up with the pecking order for sin?

Speaker: 00:30:03

What, why is it that, and maybe we can contrast

Speaker: 00:30:07

those 2, because it's, It's interesting that came to my mind as when I was

Speaker: 00:30:11

about to ask you, why is it that a group of Nazis that if we

Speaker: 00:30:14

saw their rap sheets and what they were there for, but

Speaker: 00:30:18

yet, And listen, again, we're not making light of any

Speaker: 00:30:22

crime, but Yep. What is up with that pecking order,

Speaker: 00:30:26

And why is it that even as Christians, many people that are in religious

Speaker: 00:30:29

circles, why is it that they will say

Speaker: 00:30:33

that this sin holds a worse

Speaker: 00:30:37

penalty or whatever than other when it's all

Speaker: 00:30:41

sin. What are your thoughts? Maturity

Speaker: 00:30:45

is required to get to what you just said at the end.

Speaker: 00:30:49

You must get to a place where you recognize that he went to that

Speaker: 00:30:53

cross for all sin. Not for some,

Speaker: 00:30:57

all. He died for

Speaker: 00:31:01

the smallest sin to the largest sin. I do not

Speaker: 00:31:05

like the word religion because it does that. It starts to

Speaker: 00:31:08

compare and separate relationship, I say

Speaker: 00:31:12

I'm a Christ follower. To be able to parallel the 2, like,

Speaker: 00:31:16

why is there this weird pecking order in prison? It's

Speaker: 00:31:20

because when you're in a position where the rest of

Speaker: 00:31:23

society has said, you are so awful, you're so dangerous,

Speaker: 00:31:27

disgusting, scary, not wanted unusable

Speaker: 00:31:31

devalued that we're going to throw you into a

Speaker: 00:31:34

compound behind multiple barbed wire fences, some kill

Speaker: 00:31:38

fences. How are you supposed to feel about yourself? That's

Speaker: 00:31:42

why the ministry that I've created is in place is to

Speaker: 00:31:46

let them know inside you have value. You

Speaker: 00:31:49

have a purpose. You are loved and you are

Speaker: 00:31:53

loved. If you don't have that mindset, if you're

Speaker: 00:31:57

still living, dealing every morning with your own shame and your

Speaker: 00:32:00

own guilt and feeling like, Well,

Speaker: 00:32:04

I don't want to deal with my crap because that's just

Speaker: 00:32:08

too scary and too real, and I'll have to come face to face with my

Speaker: 00:32:12

truth, and my identity. So I'm gonna instead at least I'm not

Speaker: 00:32:16

that guy. Church mindset. I may have my secret

Speaker: 00:32:20

sin over here, but at least I'm not coming in here hungover drunk

Speaker: 00:32:23

with 2 different shoes on. At least I'm not that.

Speaker: 00:32:27

In prison, it's that mindset. Murderers, well, at least I

Speaker: 00:32:30

didn't Hurt a child. Thieves. At least I

Speaker: 00:32:34

didn't sell drugs that killed someone. It's

Speaker: 00:32:37

hilariously. Stupid, Bro, we're all in this

Speaker: 00:32:41

together. None of us are walking out of the front door today. They're not giving

Speaker: 00:32:44

us keys, and they're not giving us any access to make a decision

Speaker: 00:32:48

other than what can we do in our circle right now, but yet

Speaker: 00:32:52

they feel I'm above that guy. I'm better than that. Pretty

Speaker: 00:32:56

stupid behind bars. And it's actually pretty Stupid on this side of the bars

Speaker: 00:33:00

also. Totally. People do that, but yet we

Speaker: 00:33:03

see people doing it other time. 1 other 1 other just

Speaker: 00:33:07

maybe Prison question before we get to, a

Speaker: 00:33:11

conversion that occurred. I wanna hear that story a little bit and dig on that.

Speaker: 00:33:15

But, I think when I've talked to people

Speaker: 00:33:19

that have been in situations like like behind bars,

Speaker: 00:33:24

and I also think about our modern culture with I can't point to

Speaker: 00:33:28

them. You know, we're on devices, and we've got all

Speaker: 00:33:31

these things coming at us. To me at

Speaker: 00:33:35

times, it seems as if and you said a little bit of it. You

Speaker: 00:33:39

gave some glimpses of it. There is some degree of

Speaker: 00:33:42

simplicity. You don't have a lot of choices.

Speaker: 00:33:46

You're boxed in literally, figuratively, a lot of ways.

Speaker: 00:33:50

So talk about the comparison between the world,

Speaker: 00:33:54

and I think this is causes challenges for people that come

Speaker: 00:33:58

out of those systems too, is that all of a sudden,

Speaker: 00:34:03

it's like there are choices. We were talking earlier about, you

Speaker: 00:34:06

know, How some men can be on their

Speaker: 00:34:10

phone, and there's so many temptations and all theirs, like,

Speaker: 00:34:13

probably didn't have that when you're behind bars. A little bit about that contrast

Speaker: 00:34:17

between the limited choices and now the unlimited

Speaker: 00:34:20

choices that one faces when they're outside of that environment.

Speaker: 00:34:25

Sure. And I am certainly no expert on eliminating

Speaker: 00:34:30

lust distractions,

Speaker: 00:34:33

sinful opportunity. I am as struggling as the man

Speaker: 00:34:37

beside me. But when it does get broken

Speaker: 00:34:40

down, once I was able to come and give my life to the Lord after

Speaker: 00:34:44

witnessing some of these miracles and truly feeling what

Speaker: 00:34:48

it is that God has earned

Speaker: 00:34:51

yearning for me to walk in. It breaks it

Speaker: 00:34:55

down to, is this, if I make this choice, is this going to be

Speaker: 00:34:58

honoring and uplifting and loving for God

Speaker: 00:35:02

and those around me? Or is this gonna be separating me from

Speaker: 00:35:06

the Lord, my family, My mom, my dad, my

Speaker: 00:35:10

nephew, my brother. And because of

Speaker: 00:35:14

that, like, that decision can still be equated in

Speaker: 00:35:18

society. Every single choice

Speaker: 00:35:21

has a reaction. Every intent

Speaker: 00:35:25

does not align with the impact that it's had.

Speaker: 00:35:30

That changed the way I tried to think about each and every day. And I

Speaker: 00:35:34

fell. I struggled, But it was cool because the more I

Speaker: 00:35:38

learned and walked and witnessed and

Speaker: 00:35:41

tasted and experienced the glory of God and his

Speaker: 00:35:45

It, great mercy and grace.

Speaker: 00:35:49

The more quickly I came out of my own quote unquote prison

Speaker: 00:35:53

cell. Like, I was in a prison, but I would go and

Speaker: 00:35:56

lock myself up because of a feeling I was having or a

Speaker: 00:36:00

reaction. It isn't until you're able to identify those

Speaker: 00:36:03

are not my truths. I'm gonna let myself out and go live in

Speaker: 00:36:07

the freedom, live in the glory, live in the victory. We

Speaker: 00:36:11

are more than conquerors. That's not day 1

Speaker: 00:36:15

of your walk with the Lord. It it's a growth process, For

Speaker: 00:36:18

sure. And so you're behind bars, you're

Speaker: 00:36:22

going through the process, you've got all of these things

Speaker: 00:36:26

occurring. Obviously, now that you look back on it, there were miracles occurring,

Speaker: 00:36:30

but at some point, either your heart was

Speaker: 00:36:34

softened or you interacted with someone or Something occurred is

Speaker: 00:36:38

probably a long process, but tell me about the point

Speaker: 00:36:42

where you now look to as the turning point

Speaker: 00:36:46

that you say that, and it may have been a longer process. It may not

Speaker: 00:36:49

have been a day, minute, second, but what happened

Speaker: 00:36:53

there, and and I think that's gonna lead us into the conversation of now

Speaker: 00:36:56

why you go back in. There was the multiple death threats,

Speaker: 00:37:00

and there were a few circumstances and situations. And

Speaker: 00:37:05

I said I was so blessed and joyful to be able to go to

Speaker: 00:37:08

territorial prison, the 2nd oldest prison in the entire United States. It

Speaker: 00:37:12

was when it was Louisiana Purchase Territorials Prison,

Speaker: 00:37:16

I didn't wanna go there because after the 2nd death threat,

Speaker: 00:37:20

I actually was begging the state of Colorado to put me in protective custody

Speaker: 00:37:24

for 20 years. I was stuck in a hole. They're trying to figure out what

Speaker: 00:37:28

to do with me, how hide me, how to keep me safe, and figure out

Speaker: 00:37:31

where can we possibly put this guy. He's clearly not being successful at these

Speaker: 00:37:35

prisons. During that, I grew a really big beard because they wouldn't give me

Speaker: 00:37:38

a razor. I went to a hearing and asked

Speaker: 00:37:42

them, will you hide me for the next nineteen and a half years? And the

Speaker: 00:37:46

lady who was in charge of this hearing looked

Speaker: 00:37:50

at my beard and says, your beard is a wonderful disguise.

Speaker: 00:37:53

And I notice here that you have a master's degree in education and math.

Speaker: 00:37:58

I'm like, why are we talking about facial hair and mathematics? Like,

Speaker: 00:38:01

people are trying to kill me, lady. Can I go hide? And she's like, I

Speaker: 00:38:05

think with this disguise. In your math

Speaker: 00:38:08

education, you could go to this prison and no one will know who you are

Speaker: 00:38:12

When my name is on my shirt, Tim, and I'm probably gonna

Speaker: 00:38:15

shave and you can go and help people get their

Speaker: 00:38:19

GED. That's the funny part of the title of the book. I

Speaker: 00:38:22

didn't get my way. Thank god. There's so many times in our lives where we're

Speaker: 00:38:26

like, god. This is what we need. This is what I know is best.

Speaker: 00:38:30

I didn't even know God, but at that moment, I'm telling these professionals,

Speaker: 00:38:34

I know what's best. Send me to the whole

Speaker: 00:38:37

until 2032, Tim. I asked to go sit alone until 2032.

Speaker: 00:38:42

It's 2023. I would still be sitting there if I got

Speaker: 00:38:46

what I wanted, but God doesn't waste a woman who made

Speaker: 00:38:49

a decision based off facial hair. So once I got to

Speaker: 00:38:53

territorial, Still don't know the Lord. I wander

Speaker: 00:38:57

into the chapel. I rattle off about an hour's worth of why

Speaker: 00:39:01

God is not real. And if he is, he's Certainly not just, and

Speaker: 00:39:05

he's not kind and probably a lot of really stupid words I can't or

Speaker: 00:39:08

wouldn't wanna repeat. And this chaplain had me turn to Job.

Speaker: 00:39:14

And this was the 1st time chapter

Speaker: 00:39:17

38, where basically God's like, you done talking job.

Speaker: 00:39:21

Let me have the microphone for a bit. Where were you when I

Speaker: 00:39:25

did? And he just explains his almighty

Speaker: 00:39:28

power. The way that he speaks things, I know existence and

Speaker: 00:39:32

something kind of clicked like, oh, it's not

Speaker: 00:39:36

about me. And that led to an introduction at Chaplain

Speaker: 00:39:40

Matt, who this shouldn't be glanced over.

Speaker: 00:39:43

Matt was a volunteer for 18, 19 years to go

Speaker: 00:39:47

into prisons and share the gospel. But more than that,

Speaker: 00:39:51

he was the 1st guy since being locked up that I sat down

Speaker: 00:39:55

with, told him the truth of what I've done.

Speaker: 00:39:59

He didn't judge. He didn't make me feel

Speaker: 00:40:03

worse. He didn't give me a 1,000 things I need

Speaker: 00:40:06

to do. He did nothing but listen,

Speaker: 00:40:11

ask great questions, listen again, And then he came back the next

Speaker: 00:40:15

day and the next day.

Speaker: 00:40:19

What would make a man do that, Tim? It's living

Speaker: 00:40:22

how God is calling us to live, love those in

Speaker: 00:40:26

prison. Love those despite their worst.

Speaker: 00:40:30

Behaviors love those in the middle of their

Speaker: 00:40:34

chaos. And so I'm witnessing the holy

Speaker: 00:40:37

spirit. I'm hearing the truth. I'm seeing the fruits of it. And

Speaker: 00:40:41

as I'm talking about this and taking responsibility for my

Speaker: 00:40:44

crime, finding freedom and the difference of shame

Speaker: 00:40:48

of, I am such a terrible person. To

Speaker: 00:40:52

guilt. I did such a terrible thing different.

Speaker: 00:40:55

I still have value. Being able to learn that

Speaker: 00:40:59

and experience that and have that mind shift of I went from

Speaker: 00:41:03

not even knowing the name God and wanting to be there. But thankfully,

Speaker: 00:41:07

a beard got me there to now I have a whole new purpose

Speaker: 00:41:10

for my life. I'm making 87¢ a day, like I

Speaker: 00:41:14

said earlier, And I'm super happy. I'm

Speaker: 00:41:18

excited every day to run down to the chapel to see what God is going

Speaker: 00:41:21

to bring to me and who is gonna walk in And how can I just

Speaker: 00:41:24

show up for them? But then I started watching these miracles happen

Speaker: 00:41:28

around me, Tim. Every Friday in the chapel,

Speaker: 00:41:32

the Muslims would have their service. I was responsible for setting up services for the

Speaker: 00:41:35

entire prison. So that's why it's funny when people in the community are like, I

Speaker: 00:41:38

don't go to that church because they don't believe in this thing.

Speaker: 00:41:43

In prison, Muslims, Asatru's, pagans,

Speaker: 00:41:46

Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists, Mormons,

Speaker: 00:41:51

the list goes on and on. All have to worship in the same

Speaker: 00:41:54

chapel. So their request was on Friday afternoons

Speaker: 00:41:58

that the Christians leave and we cover the cross.

Speaker: 00:42:02

Hard for me to do. I just understood what the

Speaker: 00:42:06

cross means. Like, it is it's It's very important to me, and I'm like, I

Speaker: 00:42:09

don't wanna cover this. But I had begun praying, and I could hear

Speaker: 00:42:13

the holy spirit say, I'm not on that cross.

Speaker: 00:42:17

And you can cover it all you want. I'm still in this building.

Speaker: 00:42:21

So what I was called to do was to love those around me. And for

Speaker: 00:42:24

me, that meant I'm not supposed to convince these Muslims to worship

Speaker: 00:42:28

my god and to worship my way. I'm supposed to create the most loving,

Speaker: 00:42:33

Comfortable and relaxing environment for them

Speaker: 00:42:37

to worship how they believe they should.

Speaker: 00:42:40

Which was a cool dichotomy from everything was supposed to be about

Speaker: 00:42:44

me. But here's the 1st real cool miracle. We would go down

Speaker: 00:42:48

every Friday to give them their privacy, and we'd go sing to the men who

Speaker: 00:42:51

are serving their prison sentences in the dementia pod, men who have

Speaker: 00:42:54

Alzheimer's, early onset dementia. And there was a man down

Speaker: 00:42:58

there named mister Green. He

Speaker: 00:43:02

was one of the most brilliant lawyers in the state of Colorado,

Speaker: 00:43:06

And he was one of the most brilliant prison lawyers when he was locked up,

Speaker: 00:43:10

but he had all but forgotten every single thing in

Speaker: 00:43:14

his life, but two things, How to rub his stomach and pat his

Speaker: 00:43:17

head. That's all he did all day. Tim for

Speaker: 00:43:21

3 years. This man never spoke a

Speaker: 00:43:25

word, nothing. And I would

Speaker: 00:43:28

go down there every Friday and I'd lean in. I'd be like, Hey Mister Green,

Speaker: 00:43:32

we're gonna sing again. Just wanna let you know I love you. Next

Speaker: 00:43:35

week. Same thing. Next week. Same thing. 1 of these weeks,

Speaker: 00:43:39

I leaned down and say the exact same thing. Mister Green, I love you, my

Speaker: 00:43:42

man. And the nurse goes, why do you do that? I go, why do I

Speaker: 00:43:45

do what? She goes, why do you talk to him? He doesn't know what you're

Speaker: 00:43:47

saying. He doesn't know his name, and he's certainly not gonna talk back to you.

Speaker: 00:43:51

There's nothing on up there. I said, I guess I just love him,

Speaker: 00:43:54

and we went and started singing. Tim in the middle of us

Speaker: 00:43:58

singing as we normally do, couple of chaplains, me and another guy who's serving his

Speaker: 00:44:02

life sentence, We start singing Amazing Grace

Speaker: 00:44:06

and out of the corner of my eye I see tears coming down mister Green's

Speaker: 00:44:10

face And he is singing out loud

Speaker: 00:44:14

every word to amazing grace.

Speaker: 00:44:17

Tim, I've been a Christian for less than 4 or 5 months.

Speaker: 00:44:21

I'm balling. He's balling. All of us are like,

Speaker: 00:44:25

this guy doesn't even talk. You said he doesn't

Speaker: 00:44:29

even know his name, but now he can recite every word to Amazing Grace.

Speaker: 00:44:33

And the coolest part of this, that nurse came up and was just

Speaker: 00:44:37

standing there watching with mouth wide open. And

Speaker: 00:44:40

afterwards, he never spoke again, went right

Speaker: 00:44:44

back to patting his head and rubbing his stomach and she looked at us and

Speaker: 00:44:47

said what was that. And I'm just a smart Alec I go

Speaker: 00:44:51

yeah what was it. Did you give him different carrots. Did you give him different

Speaker: 00:44:53

medicine? Is it just a lucky day? And she goes, no. Seriously,

Speaker: 00:44:57

what was that? And chaplain Matt goes, what do you think it is?

Speaker: 00:45:01

And she said, was that God? And he goes and this is the most

Speaker: 00:45:05

brilliant question ever, Tim. You can take it from him. He'll be honored. He looked

Speaker: 00:45:09

at her and said, yes. But the more important piece of that is,

Speaker: 00:45:13

what are you going to do with it? Tim, you can't

Speaker: 00:45:16

witness that miracle and then be like, well, that was a good day for mister

Speaker: 00:45:20

Green. You make a decision. Tim,

Speaker: 00:45:24

she accepted the Lord into her heart and life that day.

Speaker: 00:45:29

So why is the book called God Doesn't Waste A Thing? He didn't waste a

Speaker: 00:45:32

beard to get me there because that's what brought me to come to know the

Speaker: 00:45:35

Lord. He didn't waste over 3 years of silence for his first

Speaker: 00:45:39

words to change her eternal future.

Speaker: 00:45:43

And I have stories upon stories and I know we have not much time

Speaker: 00:45:47

of God showing up In these mighty miracles.

Speaker: 00:45:51

And that's my passion is people in the community, chalk it

Speaker: 00:45:55

up to good doctors and he's lucky and

Speaker: 00:45:58

he's rich. When you have, like I said,

Speaker: 00:46:02

the same clothes, the same outfit, the same food,

Speaker: 00:46:06

you can point right where it's supposed to be given praise to, and that's to

Speaker: 00:46:10

god. That's a I love the story of that because

Speaker: 00:46:14

I saw something Similar with my dad who

Speaker: 00:46:18

little less than a year ago passed away with dementia that he you know,

Speaker: 00:46:22

mentally, there were not things there, but yet Some music and

Speaker: 00:46:25

song and, some church things we're able to pierce through. And

Speaker: 00:46:30

the thing that I wanna ask here, RJ, is that

Speaker: 00:46:34

Sounds like within a few months, you went

Speaker: 00:46:39

from not knowing the lord

Speaker: 00:46:43

to knowing the lord and then serving

Speaker: 00:46:47

the lord. I think a lot of people move into the knowing the lord

Speaker: 00:46:51

and they never move into the lord. Or maybe they do in their own way,

Speaker: 00:46:54

and we can't see it. I'm not judging that, but a lot of people,

Speaker: 00:46:58

it's still about them, and they all of a sudden they don't really turn and

Speaker: 00:47:01

focus on others. Was that something that pastor or

Speaker: 00:47:04

chaplain Matt encouraged you to do? Did you do it automatically?

Speaker: 00:47:08

Was it just something snapped and you did it, Or you didn't have

Speaker: 00:47:12

anything else to do? You're in prison? Why not just set up chairs for the

Speaker: 00:47:15

Muslim servant? What was the catalyst that moved you

Speaker: 00:47:19

from not knowing the lord, knowing the Lord

Speaker: 00:47:23

and then doing work for them.

Speaker: 00:47:27

Teed up an opportunity for me to talk about one of the heroes in my

Speaker: 00:47:30

life. His name was Mike Freeman. He did 27 years

Speaker: 00:47:34

straight in prison. Used to be one of those hardcore white

Speaker: 00:47:37

boy Nazi problematic, hateful,

Speaker: 00:47:41

especially towards sex offenders. He became one of my best friends before he passed away

Speaker: 00:47:44

inside. And after about 2 years of me walking

Speaker: 00:47:49

and talking and learning and loving the Bible

Speaker: 00:47:52

and God and Jesus and understand the holy spirit.

Speaker: 00:47:57

So I wanna give chaplain Matt and chaplain Troy and chaplain Abner, all people who

Speaker: 00:48:00

are addressing the book, a lot of credit. Yeah. They encouraged me to love others,

Speaker: 00:48:05

But there was a specific night where Mike Freeman comes

Speaker: 00:48:09

and he goes, RJ, Who

Speaker: 00:48:12

do you say Jesus is?

Speaker: 00:48:16

And I'm like, oh, I got this because keep in mind

Speaker: 00:48:20

about 18 months to 2 years before, I didn't even know there was a new

Speaker: 00:48:23

and old testament. Like, I was not aware. So I'm like,

Speaker: 00:48:27

I got this answer. I go, easy. Jesus is my

Speaker: 00:48:31

savior. Boom. Mic drop. And he looked at me. He goes,

Speaker: 00:48:35

that's true. Is that all he is? And I was like,

Speaker: 00:48:39

I miss. What where'd I miss? I go, what do you talk about? He goes,

Speaker: 00:48:42

have you made Jesus your lord yet? Have you

Speaker: 00:48:46

made a Lordship decision? I go, what does that mean? He goes,

Speaker: 00:48:50

here's the simplest way I can explain it. He was,

Speaker: 00:48:54

when you claim and say

Speaker: 00:48:57

that Jesus is your savior, You

Speaker: 00:49:01

are going home. You are going to heaven. That impacts 1

Speaker: 00:49:05

person. You are saved. But when you choose

Speaker: 00:49:09

to identify him as your Lord, now you're choosing

Speaker: 00:49:13

to follow him, to listen to him, to love those

Speaker: 00:49:17

around you as if you were him. I'm not saying I'm

Speaker: 00:49:20

Jesus. I was trying to love those like Jesus would.

Speaker: 00:49:25

When you make him your Lord, that impacts everyone

Speaker: 00:49:28

around you. Save your decision. 1 person you're going to

Speaker: 00:49:32

heaven. Lordship decision, watch the entire

Speaker: 00:49:36

environment around you change. That was pivotal for me, and

Speaker: 00:49:40

he made it so simple. There wasn't some really ridiculous hard

Speaker: 00:49:43

15 scriptures to go read and do these 1500 things. And

Speaker: 00:49:47

it's that simple. Lord and

Speaker: 00:49:51

savior. That's when I began truly saying

Speaker: 00:49:54

Okay. How am I going to

Speaker: 00:49:58

Energize love transform support

Speaker: 00:50:03

share hope encourage All these men that around

Speaker: 00:50:06

me now and presently that are still

Speaker: 00:50:10

inside hearing from the guards. You're nothing but

Speaker: 00:50:13

a blank. You're worthless. You're in here because no one

Speaker: 00:50:17

loves you. Society can't even stand to look at you.

Speaker: 00:50:21

Those are all false. That's all false. You're exactly where

Speaker: 00:50:25

god has you for the moment, and let's find what your purpose is while you're

Speaker: 00:50:29

there. Did you start writing the book while you are behind

Speaker: 00:50:32

bars, or did you do that later? When did that process start?

Speaker: 00:50:37

I did that once I got out because I I would

Speaker: 00:50:40

have never used the phrase, God does a waste a thing. Because even in the

Speaker: 00:50:44

midst of experience these miracles. I wasn't like, I'm so

Speaker: 00:50:48

happy that I grew that beard, and she used that to bring me here because

Speaker: 00:50:51

now I've just gotta witness This miracle, I wasn't intelligent enough and I wasn't

Speaker: 00:50:55

mature enough to witness what was still going on. But

Speaker: 00:50:58

once I got out and was able to look back and, honestly, The

Speaker: 00:51:02

thing that released me 13 years early

Speaker: 00:51:06

was the exact same thing that almost got me

Speaker: 00:51:09

killed In the 2nd murder attempt, identical thing. It's

Speaker: 00:51:13

in the book. When I got put back in the media

Speaker: 00:51:18

And able to step back and go, like, why am I here? Oh,

Speaker: 00:51:22

it's like the story of Joseph, who I love

Speaker: 00:51:25

and can relate to everywhere he went. God was with him.

Speaker: 00:51:29

And at the very end, after his father had died and all of his brothers

Speaker: 00:51:32

are like, oh, no. We're in for it now. He's gonna

Speaker: 00:51:36

kill us because we chucked him in the pit and we sold him. And

Speaker: 00:51:40

Joseph looked at him and said, Bless you. What all

Speaker: 00:51:44

y'all intended for evil? God used for

Speaker: 00:51:47

good. That was the moment I'm like, I need to are putting

Speaker: 00:51:51

these things down in the book. Because so many people

Speaker: 00:51:55

in society. In prison in churches are in

Speaker: 00:51:59

the middle of their thing that they would say, this is evil.

Speaker: 00:52:03

People are spreading rumors about me. I'm in the middle of my sin. I'm sitting

Speaker: 00:52:06

in a prison cell. I'm about to get divorced. I just had a son who

Speaker: 00:52:10

just told me blank That's the

Speaker: 00:52:13

moment where God's like, I can play in this game right now.

Speaker: 00:52:18

If it looks impossible, God's gonna sub himself in.

Speaker: 00:52:22

That's when I started writing the book. So,

Speaker: 00:52:26

obviously, released early? Yep.

Speaker: 00:52:29

And 2020. Right in the middle of COVID. Right in the middle of COVID. What

Speaker: 00:52:33

was that like as you exited the prison

Speaker: 00:52:37

system. The weirdest part

Speaker: 00:52:40

that I don't often share is I got

Speaker: 00:52:44

released May 27, 2020, May

Speaker: 00:52:48

26th at 9 PM.

Speaker: 00:52:52

I was considered to be so dangerous that I had to stand for count

Speaker: 00:52:55

as normal. And I was only allowed to use a plastic spork

Speaker: 00:53:00

And I'm locking down in a cell, but somehow, Tim,

Speaker: 00:53:04

8 hours later, according to society In the

Speaker: 00:53:07

prison system, praise God. I got out, but now

Speaker: 00:53:12

I'm walking free. I'm going to Walmart. I can go to

Speaker: 00:53:15

Applebee's or I can go to Outback, and I can use a fork or a

Speaker: 00:53:18

knife. And I'm the same person,

Speaker: 00:53:22

but I'm not as dangerous or as scary.

Speaker: 00:53:26

It's the weirdest mindset of like 7 years.

Speaker: 00:53:30

I couldn't use anything, but a toothbrush this

Speaker: 00:53:33

big, because it can't be made into a shank. Now I

Speaker: 00:53:37

can go to ACE hardware and buy Garden shears

Speaker: 00:53:41

that are this long. There was a lot of

Speaker: 00:53:45

things that had changed. There was no Use your phone. Tap

Speaker: 00:53:48

to pay. There was no Uber and Lyft, and there now dudes are wearing

Speaker: 00:53:52

masks. Skin girls are wearing masks. It's Why did I come out

Speaker: 00:53:56

here to? It almost felt safer inside, but

Speaker: 00:54:01

it was a good and very pleasant struggle to reassimilate.

Speaker: 00:54:04

I always had great support. Like I said earlier, great family who's there

Speaker: 00:54:08

to always love and support, encourage me.

Speaker: 00:54:12

But there were definitely times where, like, my 1st trip to Walmart

Speaker: 00:54:16

was it didn't go well. Way too many people and people reaching

Speaker: 00:54:20

across and shoo shoo. I'm used to prison where the number one rule

Speaker: 00:54:23

is be respectful. You reach across someone in prison,

Speaker: 00:54:27

you might, if you're lucky, get a, hey. What are you doing? Most often, you're

Speaker: 00:54:31

gonna get a shove or a fight because you just disrespected

Speaker: 00:54:35

someone. Walmart's not the most respectable place, Tim.

Speaker: 00:54:38

I'm not super excited about my visits to Walmart and Costco. I did

Speaker: 00:54:42

this last week and things like that too. What about,

Speaker: 00:54:46

Well, alright. You're obviously your identity changed while you were

Speaker: 00:54:50

in prison. Was there any impact on your

Speaker: 00:54:54

identity as you Exited because of the change in the

Speaker: 00:54:57

surrounding circumstances, etcetera. You said some things just

Speaker: 00:55:01

then, but any Anything go on

Speaker: 00:55:05

with your identity when all of a sudden you're hardened

Speaker: 00:55:08

criminal, using a sport, and then all of a sudden now

Speaker: 00:55:12

Society considers you a okay. Here you go. Here's knives

Speaker: 00:55:15

and probably no weapons, I'm guessing, but, you know, here's here's

Speaker: 00:55:19

whatever here's whatever you can get that would be

Speaker: 00:55:23

any identity issues you you dealt with when you were

Speaker: 00:55:26

released? I can honestly say no because

Speaker: 00:55:30

of the

Speaker: 00:55:34

Hard. Times dive into the Bible and the hours

Speaker: 00:55:38

upon hours of sitting in that chapel. Like that was my job from 7

Speaker: 00:55:41

AM till 8 PM to be around chaplains and believers,

Speaker: 00:55:46

to really be able to pound in me and believe in my heart.

Speaker: 00:55:50

I am exactly what this Bible says about me. I was made

Speaker: 00:55:54

in the image of God. I don't wake up every morning, like,

Speaker: 00:55:57

I'm such an image of God today. I can't wait to go and share this

Speaker: 00:56:01

with everybody, but I wake up knowing the truth that

Speaker: 00:56:05

I chose to do something, but that doesn't get to define me for the

Speaker: 00:56:09

rest of my life. Others may choose to do that. I

Speaker: 00:56:12

still have issues with people in society, like not being able to

Speaker: 00:56:16

get past. Having to register or not being able

Speaker: 00:56:20

to hear I could read off

Speaker: 00:56:23

what the Powerball numbers are gonna be tomorrow night, and there'd be some people like,

Speaker: 00:56:26

I don't wanna hear a word you have to say. Because no matter what you

Speaker: 00:56:30

say, it's coming out of the mouths of a sex offender.

Speaker: 00:56:34

I don't get to choose how they respond to my truth. I don't get to

Speaker: 00:56:38

choose how they respond to my words. And if I love them,

Speaker: 00:56:42

all I can do is share and love and encourage.

Speaker: 00:56:46

And it's hard to like, let their

Speaker: 00:56:50

reaction go. And there's

Speaker: 00:56:53

been some not so great reunions, But there's

Speaker: 00:56:57

been some absolutely wonderful ones, and I

Speaker: 00:57:01

don't give this man enough credit. 1 of my Greatest

Speaker: 00:57:04

friends, mentors in my life. He's a couple years younger than me. His name's Brett.

Speaker: 00:57:08

He never lost support for

Speaker: 00:57:12

me. He never chose to judge me or shame

Speaker: 00:57:15

me. And when I got out of prison, he

Speaker: 00:57:19

introduced me to the majority of my great friends

Speaker: 00:57:22

right now who are in a men's group that I'm so honored and proud to

Speaker: 00:57:26

be a part of. Had he not done that, I don't know where

Speaker: 00:57:29

my life would be right now because what he chose to do was to say,

Speaker: 00:57:33

that's scary, Tim. If you think of your most inner circle,

Speaker: 00:57:37

Are you gonna walk in someone they don't know and be like, Hey. This guy

Speaker: 00:57:41

just got out of prison. This was the crime he did.

Speaker: 00:57:45

I love him, but how about you guys accept him in? He

Speaker: 00:57:49

and I had over 30 years of history,

Speaker: 00:57:53

But that group is walking and

Speaker: 00:57:56

talking and living and trying to follow the Lord. So they respond

Speaker: 00:58:00

in kind, like You are not what other people say

Speaker: 00:58:04

about you. You are what we believe the Bible says about

Speaker: 00:58:08

you. That's really impactful to have a friend like that.

Speaker: 00:58:12

Who's willing to not just be like, I love you in secret, but

Speaker: 00:58:16

to stand on a rooftop and be like, Hey, this guy, This is

Speaker: 00:58:19

my guy. And even though he chose to do what he

Speaker: 00:58:23

did, I love him. That's changed

Speaker: 00:58:27

my perspective of how I can Help all my friends who get

Speaker: 00:58:30

out. Not be like, I liked you inside, but now that I'm out here, I

Speaker: 00:58:34

got a I got an agenda. I got my own image to protect, so

Speaker: 00:58:38

I gotta push you away. Now I one of my best

Speaker: 00:58:41

friends is serving a life sentence for murder,

Speaker: 00:58:45

And he's probably the kindest nicest easily the

Speaker: 00:58:49

funniest person I've ever had in my life.

Speaker: 00:58:52

And the really cool part of the book, he edited

Speaker: 00:58:56

it and did better than most professionals ever could. And

Speaker: 00:59:00

actually heard that from the publisher. They're like, Who'd you have that at this? I

Speaker: 00:59:03

go, a guy serving life in prison. They're like, dude, he nailed

Speaker: 00:59:07

it. All the commas, all the punctuation, everything was grammatically. It

Speaker: 00:59:11

was so easy for us. I'm like, Praise God. That shows

Speaker: 00:59:15

a lot of maturity from your buddy

Speaker: 00:59:18

that he obviously is comfortable in who he is, That he would

Speaker: 00:59:22

introduce you and connect you. And I think

Speaker: 00:59:25

it's fascinating. I think there's a great lesson

Speaker: 00:59:30

In understanding Sabbath rest, being just where

Speaker: 00:59:33

we need to be as best we can regardless of

Speaker: 00:59:37

circumstances, what society, culture, Other people say about us

Speaker: 00:59:41

when you exited. That was very powerful. RJ

Speaker: 00:59:46

Society calls you a sex sex offender

Speaker: 00:59:50

society calls you a sex offender.

Speaker: 00:59:54

Scripture says that you're been

Speaker: 00:59:58

forgiven and washed of your sins.

Speaker: 01:00:02

Do you truly believe That you have been forgiven of the sins that you've

Speaker: 01:00:06

committed? Yes.

Speaker: 01:00:11

Like, I know you're probably wanting more context to that, but

Speaker: 01:00:14

Yes. No question.

Speaker: 01:00:19

And one of my favorite things to share with a lot of the guys to

Speaker: 01:00:22

don't know the Lord that are sitting in prison. Like, yeah, he can forgive

Speaker: 01:00:25

you because you didn't kill someone or you didn't do this to

Speaker: 01:00:29

50 people. Or If you remember

Speaker: 01:00:33

Jesus on the cross, he's got his 2 dudes beside

Speaker: 01:00:36

him and one's rattling off. Hey. If you're really who you think

Speaker: 01:00:40

you are, Why don't you get us off of here? At least yourself, bro.

Speaker: 01:00:44

And the other one was like, don't you understand what's going on here? And he

Speaker: 01:00:47

says, hey. I I'm confessing who you

Speaker: 01:00:51

are. You must be the lord. Romans 10/9. Believe with your heart and

Speaker: 01:00:55

confess with your mouth that he is lord. You will be saved.

Speaker: 01:00:58

Jesus doesn't look at him and say, Hey man, before I

Speaker: 01:01:02

forgive you and allow you to come in to paradise with me, what, what did

Speaker: 01:01:06

you do? What, sorry about that. Yep. Good

Speaker: 01:01:09

luck hanging here. He forgives

Speaker: 01:01:14

all sins. Paul,

Speaker: 01:01:18

amen. So I follow-up question.

Speaker: 01:01:21

This is a little bit of an audible. I usually would have a Question as

Speaker: 01:01:24

I wrap up. But RJ, I would love for

Speaker: 01:01:28

you to some people may be watching this via video. Some people may be

Speaker: 01:01:32

listening in on the audio, but I would love for you to just look

Speaker: 01:01:35

into your camera, speak into the mic to

Speaker: 01:01:39

anyone that I don't know if

Speaker: 01:01:43

they are where you were before

Speaker: 01:01:48

The crime or they may be in a situation that you were

Speaker: 01:01:52

during your incarceration before you met the lord. They

Speaker: 01:01:56

may be in a situation even after that. Whatever the holy spirit puts

Speaker: 01:01:59

on your heart, just take a minute and just speak directly

Speaker: 01:02:03

to someone That has listened in to this entire

Speaker: 01:02:07

conversation and minister something to them before

Speaker: 01:02:10

I put some, as much of a bow as I can on this on

Speaker: 01:02:14

this conversation. Thank you for that opportunity.

Speaker: 01:02:18

What I didn't share to whoever it is that's watching,

Speaker: 01:02:22

looking, listening, My story started with me

Speaker: 01:02:26

laying on the train tracks. Trying to kill myself.

Speaker: 01:02:32

Before I got sentenced to prison. I knew I was

Speaker: 01:02:36

gonna end up there and didn't think I could deal with that

Speaker: 01:02:40

circumstance. There were several tracks

Speaker: 01:02:44

that were at this location that I went and hid my car and laid on,

Speaker: 01:02:47

and it was late at night. And my dad drove trains his entire life,

Speaker: 01:02:51

And I know if you can't see 1, you can hear 1. And if you

Speaker: 01:02:53

can't hear 1, you can feel it. And so I felt the tracks and I

Speaker: 01:02:56

knew which track that train was coming on. I laid on it

Speaker: 01:03:00

Neck on the rail. Because I

Speaker: 01:03:03

felt alone. I felt isolated. I felt hopeless.

Speaker: 01:03:07

This was the only way out. Called mom, dad, brother, best

Speaker: 01:03:11

friend, and said, hey. I'm gonna kill myself. I did something I can't even deal

Speaker: 01:03:14

with. Love you. Bye. The track that I was on,

Speaker: 01:03:17

thankfully, was the wrong track. And the train went by beside

Speaker: 01:03:21

me. And I'm gonna land this plane, but this is really

Speaker: 01:03:25

important. I drove around the city of Denver for 4 hours

Speaker: 01:03:28

because I was afraid to go home. I was afraid thinking the cops are gonna

Speaker: 01:03:32

be there, and I'm gonna have to walk it the circumstance, this punishment.

Speaker: 01:03:35

When I about ran out of gas, I drove

Speaker: 01:03:39

home and my parents lived 5 hours

Speaker: 01:03:42

away from me. Four hours.

Speaker: 01:03:47

I walked in to my apartment and I

Speaker: 01:03:51

took the 1st step in thinking the cops are gonna be in there.

Speaker: 01:03:55

And sprinting out of my bedroom in the back was my

Speaker: 01:03:58

dad who was at home 4 and a half hours

Speaker: 01:04:02

ago or 4 hours when I called him and said I'm gonna kill myself, and

Speaker: 01:04:04

he's crying. And I'm not a believer, I didn't understand this until

Speaker: 01:04:08

I finished writing my book. I looked at him and I go, what are you

Speaker: 01:04:11

doing here? And he put his arms out,

Speaker: 01:04:15

and he said, I didn't know what else to do.

Speaker: 01:04:19

I said, dad, I called you and told you I was gonna kill myself. What

Speaker: 01:04:23

was your plan? He goes, I didn't have 1. I go, why'd you come here?

Speaker: 01:04:26

He and he said this. And in 2012, this didn't make any sense

Speaker: 01:04:30

to me. He said, I promised your mother and God

Speaker: 01:04:35

that I was gonna take care of you and your brother until the day that

Speaker: 01:04:38

I died. So when you called, I came.

Speaker: 01:04:43

I said what he goes, you called. I came. And his

Speaker: 01:04:46

arms were out. He didn't yell at me. He didn't tell me to apologize or

Speaker: 01:04:50

to do a 1,000 things. He put his arms out. And as a

Speaker: 01:04:53

30 year old, I ran into him and hugged him and fell asleep in his

Speaker: 01:04:56

arms scared, and they went to the police station the next day.

Speaker: 01:05:01

Here's the thing I'm telling the person listening.

Speaker: 01:05:05

That's the perfect representation of what

Speaker: 01:05:08

Jesus does. It's in the Bible called

Speaker: 01:05:12

the prodigal son story. We might be in the middle of our pain, in the

Speaker: 01:05:16

middle of your sin, in the middle of your fear, in the middle of your

Speaker: 01:05:18

circumstance that you cannot deal with and you're feeling alone, you're feeling

Speaker: 01:05:22

isolated, hopeless, scared, Full of fear.

Speaker: 01:05:27

God is already standing there with his arms out.

Speaker: 01:05:31

He's already come. All you need to do is

Speaker: 01:05:35

call. And go. And

Speaker: 01:05:38

that is the thing I can share the most in the middle of what

Speaker: 01:05:42

you're going through. He's already there. He's not

Speaker: 01:05:46

gonna waste it. Thank you, Tim, for letting me share that. Thank you,

Speaker: 01:05:50

RJ. RJ, where can people find god doesn't waste

Speaker: 01:05:53

a thing and give your ministry website and all if they wanna support

Speaker: 01:05:57

because you're going back into prisons, Yep. And you're able to go

Speaker: 01:06:01

back in there and share this message and minister there. Give

Speaker: 01:06:05

just a little bit of where people can find it. We'll include it down in

Speaker: 01:06:07

the notes, and then I'll wrap up. Awesome. Yeah.

Speaker: 01:06:11

Not my will ministries.com is the ministry website. You can see

Speaker: 01:06:15

some of my Testimony of couple of the places I've

Speaker: 01:06:19

spoken with and couple of the churches that I've stopped and shared

Speaker: 01:06:23

what the lord has done in my life. There's links to have me come and

Speaker: 01:06:26

speak at your men's group, at your church. I'd love to do that. I'd be

Speaker: 01:06:29

honored to be welcomed in anybody's community. You can find the

Speaker: 01:06:32

book on there. You can there's links to go to my publisher. There's links to

Speaker: 01:06:36

go to Amazon. Like you said, it's God Doesn't Waste a Thing by the pen

Speaker: 01:06:39

name, Luke Chance, which Chaplain Troy, his 2 sons'

Speaker: 01:06:42

names are Chance and Luke, so it was an awesome way for me to give

Speaker: 01:06:45

honor to him coming in and loving me when very few would.

Speaker: 01:06:49

A goal of mine is to continue supporting and going into those inside of prison.

Speaker: 01:06:53

So if you're feeling called or urged or led to learn more

Speaker: 01:06:56

about that, where if you're trying to find a really cool way to tithe or

Speaker: 01:07:00

donate or support, I'm not telling you to not give your money

Speaker: 01:07:04

to your local church or ministry or food bank. But

Speaker: 01:07:08

there's a lot of people who need to know that we love

Speaker: 01:07:12

them, that they're not forgotten And a donation can help

Speaker: 01:07:16

them communicate with their sons, daughters, wives, buy shampoo.

Speaker: 01:07:20

It's a worthy cause, and I would really ask that you pray about it. And

Speaker: 01:07:23

if you're interested, go to not my will ministries.com and reach out to me,

Speaker: 01:07:27

and look forward to doing prison ministry with you. Thanks,

Speaker: 01:07:31

RJ. We'll include everything down in the notes, or if you're watching this via video,

Speaker: 01:07:35

you can find it all there too. We are seek, go create here,

Speaker: 01:07:38

and, we have conversations That people don't have in

Speaker: 01:07:42

a lot of other places as you were, listening in and

Speaker: 01:07:46

viewing here. I appreciate RJ. I wanna honor you,

Speaker: 01:07:50

Not for what you did, but for your identity and who you are

Speaker: 01:07:54

and for your vulnerability in sharing that because I

Speaker: 01:07:58

think that's when our hearts are touched, and I believe that our journey

Speaker: 01:08:02

here on this Earth is to soften our hearts. You

Speaker: 01:08:05

definitely helped do that, and I know you continue to. So again,

Speaker: 01:08:09

we're see go create. We've got new episodes every Monday, And

Speaker: 01:08:13

until next time, continue being all that you were

Speaker: 01:08:16

created to