Personal Crisis to Courage For Life: Ann White’s Mission and Ministry

Ann White: 00:00:00

Today.

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I define courage is taking a necessary risk and trusting God with the outcome.

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So it has to be a necessary risk.

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It has to be something that you risk in order to have courage.

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You got to have a little bit of fear to have courage, right?

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A little bit of, you know, I'm not sure what's going to happen.

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You

Tim Winders: 00:00:30

Are you ready to discover how courage can transform your life?

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Welcome to this episode of Seek, Go Create the Leadership Journey,

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where we're joined by Anne White, founder and CEO of Courage for Life.

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Anne is not only an author and speaker, but also a visionary

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leader who has dedicated her life to empowering individuals through

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spiritual and emotional health.

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Anne is going to share her journey of creating courage for life.

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A ministry aimed at providing resources like the first all female

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voiced audio Bible and various study guides that help people, including

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thousands of incarcerated men and women, find their God given courage.

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With her recent publications with Tyndall House Publishers, Anne

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continues to equip believers to lead courageous lives through practical.

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Biblical applications and welcome to seek go create.

Ann White: 00:01:22

Thank you, Tim.

Tim Winders: 00:01:24

I should say welcome again, because we started this and I realized it

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didn't have the recorder on and I am okay with everyone knowing that I messed up.

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And, we had mentioned that, she's coming to us from the town I

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was born in Marietta, Georgia.

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So, anyway, very exciting to talk to you and.

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We just bump into each other.

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We're out and about somewhere on the square there at a nice restaurant

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there in Marietta, Georgia.

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And, and I ask you what you do, what's your answer when somebody asks you that?

Ann White: 00:01:53

I think the first one word answer I would give you Tim would be

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discipleship because the heartbeat of everything that we do and that I do in

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the ministry revolves around discipleship and just have a heartbeat, for people who

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have a desire to grow in their knowledge and understanding of God and his word.

Tim Winders: 00:02:15

All right.

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So that I'm veering off my questions right out of the gate because you brought

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up a word that it means a lot to me.

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I at times get excited about it.

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I at times get a little upset about it because it's thrown around

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a little bit in church world.

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But how do you define discipleship?

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to me, discipleship is a relationship where one believer and

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another believer joined together to help one another, maybe one sided more

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so on one side, there's a more mature believer that helps a younger believer.

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But even that mature believer needs to continue to be discipled because with the

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world in which we live, the distractions we come across every single day, we need.

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Somebody, in there with us in the trenches So it's coming together as believers and

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growing in our knowledge and understanding and our relationship with the Lord.

Ann White: 00:03:08

yeah, I'll let you continue.

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I was going to say, I don't like to be, I, it's going to come across

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critical of, some church structures.

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I think we talk about this word a lot, but being a leadership guy and all

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the things that I do, I don't really think in general, we, Talking we,

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maybe you can, you're going to drill down and give us some tools and some

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resources that'll help us with this.

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But I think we don't necessarily do a good job of that.

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Would you agree with that or disagree in

Ann White: 00:03:42

Yes.

Ann White: 00:03:43

In general, I would agree.

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And that was actually, we, you and I are on the same page with that.

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Cause that's exactly what I was getting ready to say.

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We don't necessarily do a great job with, especially in the churches.

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so often we are more focused on leading people to Christ,

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which is extremely important.

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We want to bring more people into the body of Christ.

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But if we don't equip them to stay there and to grow in their relationship,

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then we leave them floundering.

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That's something that I personally experienced.

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I was saved at 19 and really didn't get discipled.

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It was kind of like, okay, now what I knew I felt different.

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I felt the Holy spirit's presence.

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I felt that something was different within me.

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But I didn't have the tools.

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I wasn't equipped to know how to walk my journey out and, and continue

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to grow in that relationship.

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I really allowed myself to remain stagnant, for many, many years, really

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until my early forties, because I didn't have someone come alongside me

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at the time and say, Hey, let's talk.

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Let me show you how you can really get to know the Lord and how having a personal

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relationship with him can truly empower your life in ways that you may not

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even be able to imagine at this point.

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what did this is, this is good because it kind of gets into

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a little bit of your journey, which you know, I like to talk about what

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did that you use the word stagnant.

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What did that?

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stagnation from 19 to your early 40s.

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What were some of the results of that?

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What spun off or what happened in your life because you didn't have

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that discipleship role early on?

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Anything come to mind when I bring that up?

Ann White: 00:05:36

Absolutely.

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I would say that I continue to operate.

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In my fears instead of in my faith, I don't think there are any of us that

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escape our childhood without some scars.

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Some are our wounds are deeper than others.

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And so a lot of that baggage that I brought through my childhood and through

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my teenage years, turned into some.

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Insecurities and fears, fear of abandonment, fear of failure, fear of

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rejection, you can sit here and name all kind of fears that we can face on

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a daily basis, but if we don't have the tools to operate in faith over fear, Then

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we let those fear make our decisions.

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So if you go into a situation where you're offered an opportunity or God

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provides an open door for you to walk through an opportunity and you don't

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feel like you're qualified, you're going to let the fear of failure, keep you

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from even walking through that door.

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So for that 2021 years or more, I really, I think I limited myself and what God

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could accomplish in and through me because I wasn't letting go of that baggage.

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It also affects our marriages, how we raise our children, our

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friendships and relationships.

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So not only does it affect our relationship with the Lord,

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but this baggage that we carry around affects everything else.

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And so that's why I've dedicated, the rest of my life to helping people get rid of

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the obstacles, get rid of that baggage.

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Help us to figure out how we're going to overcome those insecurities,

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those boundary issues, those coping mechanisms that we really need to

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drop and instead replace them with a healthy relationship with the Lord and

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a healthy self identity and self esteem.

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Were you, during those 20 something years, were

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you around a church world?

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I, I really do dislike the word backslide because it's such an,

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anyway, I don't think it makes a lot of sense truthfully in many ways, but.

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Were you around a a community of church people?

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Were you doing, were you going through some of the motions and things

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that religion kind of tells us is you're doing okay, or you're, you're

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successful because you do blank.

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So what were you doing spiritually during that time might be a better way.

Tim Winders: 00:08:07

I,

Ann White: 00:08:10

answer because we did go to church.

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We may not go, you know, every Sunday, but we would go at

Ann White: 00:08:16

least a couple times a month.

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And, we had a great relationship with our church.

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You know, we would, we knew the pastor, well, knew his wife and, we were always

Ann White: 00:08:25

supportive and, and love the Lord.

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But we brought in, I would bring my Bible to church with me and.

Ann White: 00:08:33

When I would bring it in, you know, you're going to your church service, you

Ann White: 00:08:36

go into your Sunday school class, and they're going to teach on something, a

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topic, and you're going to go into church.

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They're going to generally teach on either a passage or a topic.

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And you're going to look at that passage and you're going to listen

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to the pastor and take some notes.

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And then you're going to close your Bible up, at least for me.

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That's what I think the majority of Americans do.

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And that's what I did for many years.

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And you leave church and you go, God, I feel really good after going to church.

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You know, you might be arguing with your kids or your husband on the way,

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but it's like, okay, we needed that.

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We needed to kind of calm the temperature down, just reset our minds.

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That's great.

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But then the.

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Bible goes back on the shelf and we go on with our lives

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until Sunday rolls back around.

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And I think that's where we miss out on that relationship.

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I know today, if I don't start my day in God's word, my day doesn't go as well.

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You know, I'm more apt to get frustrated or angry or, you know, just, down about

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something, but when I started in the right frame of mind and I start out in a

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spirit of thankfulness and, you know, just speaking to the Lord or reading his word

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and being encouraged, other things that may be bad or negative can just bounce

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off me a little easier during the day.

Ann White: 00:09:55

Amen.

Tim Winders: 00:09:58

the thing you described, your church experience, the, the

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words, warm, fuzzy glow came to mind when, when you were saying it.

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And, and I was similar.

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I've, I've I've.

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Sort of been on this odd two steps forward, maybe a half step back

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through two steps forward, half step back growth through a lot

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of channels and things like that.

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it is interesting that you talk about, I mean, the way I worded it,

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it's religion versus relationship.

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Religion is the thing that you, you even gave me the numbers.

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You said you would go to church about two out of four weeks, about half the time.

Tim Winders: 00:10:41

And you were supportive, which what that, what that tells me is

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you, you probably gave your money.

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What happened that caused you to develop a deeper relationship at the age of 40?

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Was it just you decided or was there an event in your life that

Tim Winders: 00:10:58

you said, I got to get my act together and connect with my creator.

Ann White: 00:11:03

Yes.

Ann White: 00:11:03

And that's usually what it takes.

Ann White: 00:11:05

It usually takes the Lord letting us get to the end of ourselves before we

Ann White: 00:11:11

go, okay, God, I do need you because if things are rolling along good and

Ann White: 00:11:16

our careers or families or marriages or whatever, everything's good.

Ann White: 00:11:21

We don't really need the Lord.

Ann White: 00:11:22

And that's a sad thing to say, but, we don't think much about him,

Ann White: 00:11:27

you know, cause everything's okay.

Ann White: 00:11:29

But when things get a little rough, and we start to hurt and we start to, you

Ann White: 00:11:34

know, Really deal with those insecurities.

Ann White: 00:11:37

So you ask what happened?

Ann White: 00:11:38

So I would say, in my twenties and thirties, I was raising a family,

Ann White: 00:11:43

you know, things were up and down.

Ann White: 00:11:45

Things were good and bad, but I was so focused and so busy.

Ann White: 00:11:49

I'm a jeweler by trade, so I'm, a gold and silver Smith.

Ann White: 00:11:52

So I'm an artist in that respect.

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And so I had my own studio that I was, you know, would work in.

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And put things in art galleries and so forth.

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And so then raising, two boys, that are just.

Ann White: 00:12:05

Full of energy, nonstop.

Ann White: 00:12:07

you know, so it was all about just keeping things going in that realm, but as they

Ann White: 00:12:14

got older and, you know, relationships always go through their bumps in the road.

Ann White: 00:12:19

And we were going through one, my husband and I, and I probably ran our 26

Ann White: 00:12:24

year of marriage, something like that.

Ann White: 00:12:26

And we're celebrating 38 this year, but it was just that time period, you know,

Ann White: 00:12:31

that you've been married for a long time.

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You're going to hit some rough spots, especially if you're not really kind

Ann White: 00:12:38

of together in close walking with the Lord, because, you know, you're

Ann White: 00:12:43

both going different directions.

Ann White: 00:12:44

So long story short, I kind of hit.

Ann White: 00:12:46

The end of myself, what I didn't realize that what was causing a lot of my

Ann White: 00:12:51

insecurities, a lot of my fears, a lot of my, hurt and self condemnation, those

Ann White: 00:12:57

kinds of things that were going on.

Ann White: 00:13:00

Was the baggage I was carrying around from childhood.

Ann White: 00:13:03

And so I talk about this in my book, courage for life.

Ann White: 00:13:06

I describe really kind of that boiling point.

Ann White: 00:13:10

And when it happened, I was actually in Israel with my oldest son.

Ann White: 00:13:15

And I talk about being there on our church trip and just breaking down and telling

Ann White: 00:13:21

the Lord I was ready to end my marriage.

Ann White: 00:13:24

I was ready to give up on everything, but I just said, God,

Ann White: 00:13:29

I don't know what to do anymore.

Ann White: 00:13:31

I finally just came to the end of myself and said, I've tried everything

Ann White: 00:13:35

I know to do to fix this person and fix this person and fix this situation.

Ann White: 00:13:42

And God finally just said, you know what?

Ann White: 00:13:44

I just want you to get honest.

Ann White: 00:13:47

I would walk through church at that point in time.

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By that time I was in my early forties.

Ann White: 00:13:52

I was actually teaching, God's word in church.

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So I was actually teaching an in depth sermon.

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I had began to study the Bible and that happens a lot of times.

Ann White: 00:14:02

God began to reveal a lot of things that needed to be dealt with.

Ann White: 00:14:06

So I hit rock bottom and I reached out.

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I just cried out to the Lord and God said, I just want you to come

Ann White: 00:14:14

clean and be transparent about the struggles that you have.

Ann White: 00:14:18

You know, don't walk through the church doors like you've been doing for 25 years

Ann White: 00:14:23

pretending that everything is perfect.

Ann White: 00:14:25

That we've got the perfect family.

Ann White: 00:14:26

We've got the perfect life.

Ann White: 00:14:28

You know, I'm a great little Bible teacher when in reality I was falling

Ann White: 00:14:34

apart at the seams and a lot of it had to do with things that I'd brought

Ann White: 00:14:39

in from my childhood and insecurities and shame based issues that I'd

Ann White: 00:14:45

brought in from my teenage years that happened prior to me being saved.

Tim Winders: 00:14:50

So one of the things, this is a common thing that we

Tim Winders: 00:14:56

kind of get to a place where we.

Tim Winders: 00:15:01

Either can't or won't, or two by four to the head, or

Tim Winders: 00:15:05

financial collapse, or health, I mean, you know, and the stories are, they're,

Tim Winders: 00:15:11

they're not great stories, but fortunately here we, we get the rest of the stories,

Tim Winders: 00:15:18

sort of, to quote Paul Harvey there.

Tim Winders: 00:15:21

What I'm curious about is let's go pre to the time I wrote down you were in

Tim Winders: 00:15:29

your 40s, 40, 41, something like that.

Tim Winders: 00:15:32

Let's go pre, tell me how you were defining and looking at success.

Tim Winders: 00:15:39

Sounds like you had a successful business and that is really cool

Tim Winders: 00:15:42

that you're a jeweler working with gold and silver and stuff like that.

Ann White: 00:15:45

all about reclaiming.

Tim Winders: 00:15:46

but, Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:15:48

and then to contrast that, I'm going to ask you to talk more about how you

Tim Winders: 00:15:52

define and look at success now and today.

Tim Winders: 00:15:55

So back up a little bit and tell me what success you skirted it a little bit there.

Tim Winders: 00:16:00

You know, you talked about, you know, we're perfect family.

Tim Winders: 00:16:03

This is the way we do and all that, but give me a little bit more on what you

Tim Winders: 00:16:07

were doing to measure success before that transition occurred before that,

Ann White: 00:16:12

perception.

Ann White: 00:16:13

It was probably more outer perception.

Ann White: 00:16:15

How did we look as a family?

Ann White: 00:16:17

cause you go back behind closed doors and you just deal with whatever you're dealing

Ann White: 00:16:22

with as human beings, you know, and you think I'm probably the only one dealing

Ann White: 00:16:26

with this when in reality, we're not.

Ann White: 00:16:29

We're all dealing with our own, humanness and our own junk,

Ann White: 00:16:33

that we collect throughout life.

Ann White: 00:16:35

How did I define success?

Ann White: 00:16:37

success in that realm was having children that, would.

Ann White: 00:16:42

graduate from high school and that would, go on to have some careers

Ann White: 00:16:47

and have a family of their own.

Ann White: 00:16:48

But, you know, I felt like I needed to be the ones to prepare them for that.

Ann White: 00:16:53

Not God, you know, it was all about what I could do.

Ann White: 00:16:57

Success was what I was capable of accomplishing.

Ann White: 00:17:02

I'm a type A personality.

Ann White: 00:17:03

I'm a perfectionist.

Ann White: 00:17:05

And so I will go after it, whatever I feel needs to be done, I'm gonna get it

Ann White: 00:17:13

done and I'm gonna do it with excellence.

Ann White: 00:17:16

But it was all in my power and my might not with asking the Lord.

Ann White: 00:17:20

So today what I define success and, and we'll talk about courage too in a minute

Ann White: 00:17:25

because I define courage differently now, what I define success as now is.

Ann White: 00:17:32

What God has called me to do and how he's called me to lead my family

Ann White: 00:17:36

and incorporate him into my life.

Ann White: 00:17:39

My life is much more peaceful, joyful, less ups and downs, less rollercoasters.

Ann White: 00:17:45

When I follow the Lord's calling on my life, when I go to him

Ann White: 00:17:50

and ask, you know, God, is this really what you want me to do?

Ann White: 00:17:54

When I pray and I'm in communion with him, then.

Ann White: 00:17:57

I can go and walk out the other pieces of my life with more peace and more

Ann White: 00:18:02

confidence, knowing that God's got this no matter what happens on the other

Ann White: 00:18:07

end or the outcome that God knows.

Ann White: 00:18:10

And it somehow will all work.

Ann White: 00:18:13

You know, Romans 8, 28, all things work together for good for

Ann White: 00:18:16

those who love the Lord and are called according to his purposes.

Ann White: 00:18:19

We follow his purposes.

Ann White: 00:18:22

It's going to go better.

Ann White: 00:18:23

Doesn't mean it's going to go perfect, but.

Ann White: 00:18:25

It's going to go the way the Lord wants it to go.

Tim Winders: 00:18:30

And, and I've read, my wife and I actually had a long

Tim Winders: 00:18:33

discussion about Romans 828 just this morning, by the way, out back in our

Tim Winders: 00:18:37

little sitting area behind the RV here.

Tim Winders: 00:18:40

And we read a lot of the scriptures that lead up to Romans 828.

Tim Winders: 00:18:44

there.

Tim Winders: 00:18:45

And one of the things that I've done often is I plucked that

Tim Winders: 00:18:48

scripture out and I, this is, Hopefully years ago, not as much now.

Tim Winders: 00:18:53

And i've tried to force it into my desire to control my

Tim Winders: 00:18:57

situations and define it in my way.

Tim Winders: 00:19:00

You mentioned your type a and all that I get it both my wife

Tim Winders: 00:19:04

and I are in that category also.

Tim Winders: 00:19:06

And so controlling our world and our situation is kind of baked into us.

Tim Winders: 00:19:13

So relinquishing that control, you know, we're going to talk about courage here

Tim Winders: 00:19:18

shortly, but for a personality like mine and yours, that is a lot of Courage.

Tim Winders: 00:19:27

I mean, I don't like giving up control.

Tim Winders: 00:19:29

What was that like for you when you started having to realize, you know, if

Tim Winders: 00:19:32

it is to be, it's up to me is not working

Tim Winders: 00:19:34

anymore.

Ann White: 00:19:35

You know, it was freeing.

Ann White: 00:19:37

It was very freeing.

Tim Winders: 00:19:38

Okay.

Tim Winders: 00:19:38

Because someone will hear that and go, Oh, I could just decide when I'm 41 years

Tim Winders: 00:19:43

old and I'm free and freedom is there.

Tim Winders: 00:19:45

I want to make sure we're being honest here.

Ann White: 00:19:47

absolutely.

Ann White: 00:19:48

and I would just encourage anyone to, read my book and you'll get the whole

Ann White: 00:19:52

story because there's just not enough time today to cover the whole thing.

Ann White: 00:19:57

But I would say this, I'll just give you a snippet.

Ann White: 00:20:00

Being in Israel, I said, okay, God, I can't do this anymore.

Ann White: 00:20:03

I don't even know what to do, but I'm going to give it to you, Lord.

Ann White: 00:20:06

And God said, I want you to write down the reality of your situation

Ann White: 00:20:10

on a piece of paper, and I want you to take it to your pastor.

Ann White: 00:20:15

And so here I am, I'm a Bible teacher.

Ann White: 00:20:17

I'm teaching two classes.

Ann White: 00:20:19

discipling at that point, other Sunday school teachers and

Ann White: 00:20:23

pretending that everything is great.

Ann White: 00:20:26

and then I've got to go in and I've got to say, but no, I'm honestly,

Ann White: 00:20:29

my world is falling apart and I'm ready to divorce my husband if, you

Ann White: 00:20:33

know, just because of all the issues that are compiled through the years.

Ann White: 00:20:37

So, it was more about me and I didn't realize it.

Ann White: 00:20:41

I really was putting everything else.

Ann White: 00:20:43

off on everybody else.

Ann White: 00:20:44

It's, it's his problem, her problem, their problem.

Ann White: 00:20:48

And I don't know how to fix them when in reality I needed to fix myself.

Ann White: 00:20:52

So after I did what the Lord called me to do the next day, I think I

Ann White: 00:20:56

hid from my pastor and his wife for, the first six hours of our touring.

Ann White: 00:21:01

Because You feel exposed, you feel, but you know, God didn't

Ann White: 00:21:06

call us to walk this journey alone.

Ann White: 00:21:08

He doesn't want us.

Ann White: 00:21:10

Matter of fact, if he wanted us to just be, you know, a lot of times

Ann White: 00:21:14

we'll say, God's all I need just me and God, that's all I need.

Ann White: 00:21:18

In reality, that's not how God designed us.

Ann White: 00:21:21

He gave, he had Adam, Adam was in the garden.

Ann White: 00:21:24

Adam wouldn't have been deceived.

Ann White: 00:21:25

Maybe he was deceived by Eve, but he took it.

Ann White: 00:21:30

And so he and God had this beautiful communication relationship and they're

Ann White: 00:21:34

in, you know, God's right there.

Ann White: 00:21:36

And God said, you need a help mate, you need a companion.

Ann White: 00:21:42

And so he made Eve and so we are made for relationships doesn't

Ann White: 00:21:48

have to be husband and wife.

Ann White: 00:21:50

It can be best friends.

Ann White: 00:21:51

It can be mentors.

Ann White: 00:21:52

It can be all of the above.

Ann White: 00:21:54

God says, seek wise counsel.

Ann White: 00:21:57

I had that feel of freedom, but I also had that feel of fear of other people knowing

Ann White: 00:22:04

my struggles and my insecurities and the difficult things going on in my life.

Ann White: 00:22:09

I thought they were supposed to remain hidden because that's what

Ann White: 00:22:12

a good Christian does, right?

Ann White: 00:22:15

So everything really changed for me after coming back from that trip.

Ann White: 00:22:19

Not only did I start going into counseling, I found a godly mentor,

Ann White: 00:22:24

counselor, pastor, He's, he's more of a, he's got a theology degree, but

Ann White: 00:22:29

great friend of my husband and I now.

Ann White: 00:22:31

but you know, I spent in depth intense counseling to try and deal and

Ann White: 00:22:37

unpack some of the childhood issues, but I began teaching differently.

Ann White: 00:22:42

I would go into my classes and instead of just teaching from the Bible and

Ann White: 00:22:48

preaching, what God's word has to say and not actually You know, letting

Ann White: 00:22:53

it soak into my being, even though I knew what it said, I couldn't

Ann White: 00:22:58

receive everything, because of some of the junk that I was holding on

Ann White: 00:23:02

to, I began to be more transparent.

Ann White: 00:23:05

I began to open up about my struggles.

Ann White: 00:23:08

I began to say, you know, Hey, we all are broken.

Ann White: 00:23:14

We're broken people in one way or another, and we're struggling.

Ann White: 00:23:17

And I began to have people that had been in my classes for years, began to come up

Ann White: 00:23:23

to me and share their hurt and their pain, things that they were hiding themselves.

Ann White: 00:23:29

and they would thank me for giving them that privilege

Ann White: 00:23:32

and that open door for being.

Ann White: 00:23:35

Just honest about my own struggles.

Ann White: 00:23:38

And so I really have made it my life's journey to say, we just need

Ann White: 00:23:43

to be real with one another and help one another in this journey of life.

Ann White: 00:23:49

We weren't meant to walk it alone and we weren't meant to walk it without God, but

Ann White: 00:23:53

we need each other and we need the Lord.

Ann White: 00:23:55

And, there's ways for us to be able to heal and move forward.

Tim Winders: 00:23:59

I want to.

Tim Winders: 00:24:01

I love words like transparency, vulnerability, even though I'm not

Tim Winders: 00:24:08

necessarily wired nor good at those.

Tim Winders: 00:24:11

It's something that, I don't know if it's the tail end of the generation

Tim Winders: 00:24:15

I'm from or whatever, but it's like, I don't like for people to see me bleed.

Tim Winders: 00:24:20

You know, I don't like that thing.

Tim Winders: 00:24:22

But, but before we go into more of that, cause I think that's

Tim Winders: 00:24:24

a good courage conversation.

Tim Winders: 00:24:27

It's fascinating to me that you were in Israel when this occurred.

Tim Winders: 00:24:34

And my wife and I have been on quite a journey geographically that's somewhat

Tim Winders: 00:24:42

been part of our spiritual and, Emotional and, and all of that journey.

Tim Winders: 00:24:47

In fact, one of the most significant times of our life, we were absolutely

Tim Winders: 00:24:50

as far away from Atlanta, Georgia and Georgia, where we grew up as possible.

Tim Winders: 00:24:55

We were down on the South Island of New Zealand in a little town called

Tim Winders: 00:24:58

Pleasant Point for three months.

Tim Winders: 00:25:00

And And we felt as if even the Lord told us, I've got you as far away from

Tim Winders: 00:25:06

where you were brought up and raised.

Tim Winders: 00:25:08

And there's some things that I need to purge from the way you were brought up.

Tim Winders: 00:25:12

And then even spoke some things about some spiritual things that hang over that.

Tim Winders: 00:25:18

religious Bible belt with racial issues and all that goes on there.

Tim Winders: 00:25:22

We don't want to go down that path, but

Ann White: 00:25:24

But

Tim Winders: 00:25:25

how significant was it that you were in Israel?

Tim Winders: 00:25:27

Does that mean anything?

Tim Winders: 00:25:28

The geography of it?

Tim Winders: 00:25:29

You weren't, weren't in your home, but you were in Israel.

Ann White: 00:25:32

was about as close to the Lord.

Ann White: 00:25:34

want to say physically, but yeah, kind of fit

Tim Winders: 00:25:36

Yeah.

Ann White: 00:25:37

as I could be in my mind.

Ann White: 00:25:40

I was walking on Holy ground.

Ann White: 00:25:42

And so I could not have been more filled, in my spirit and more excited

Ann White: 00:25:50

to be there with my oldest son, who was in his early twenties at the time.

Ann White: 00:25:55

and yet.

Ann White: 00:25:56

God wouldn't let me go.

Ann White: 00:25:59

Without making a change.

Ann White: 00:26:02

you know, I love the title of your podcast, Seek Go Create,

Ann White: 00:26:05

because that's where I was.

Ann White: 00:26:07

I was seeking the Lord and he was telling me to go and he was getting ready to

Ann White: 00:26:13

create something in me that I had no clue.

Ann White: 00:26:18

I mean, no clue where he was going to take it.

Ann White: 00:26:21

And we just celebrated a few weeks ago.

Ann White: 00:26:24

It was our 10th anniversary of Courage for Life.

Ann White: 00:26:27

So this year we're celebrating 10 years of Courage for Life.

Ann White: 00:26:30

And it has been amazing what God has accomplished just in these 10 years.

Ann White: 00:26:35

and you'll see, as we talk a little bit more about, everything he's done

Ann White: 00:26:39

through Courage for Life, it is so not anything that I could have ever dreamed

Ann White: 00:26:44

of or done, had I not had been willing to just open my hands and say, God,

Ann White: 00:26:50

Just send me where you're going to send me, tell me what to do and create in

Ann White: 00:26:55

me the life that you want me to lead.

Ann White: 00:26:58

And I think the reason he's been on such a bullet train is what I

Ann White: 00:27:02

like to call it with my life and my ministry and this ministry.

Ann White: 00:27:06

Is because I waited so long , he was like, okay, is it time yet?

Ann White: 00:27:12

You know, are you ever gonna surrender and let's just do this.

Ann White: 00:27:16

so I've been very blessed.

Ann White: 00:27:18

it's been an adventure.

Ann White: 00:27:19

I remember Kay Arthur saying one time, I was sitting under her teaching and

Ann White: 00:27:23

she said, when you get into God's will, life becomes an adventure.

Ann White: 00:27:30

I can attest to that.

Ann White: 00:27:31

It's not always easy.

Ann White: 00:27:33

It's sometimes very frightening, but it's definitely an adventure when

Ann White: 00:27:39

you go with it and, pursue his will.

Tim Winders: 00:27:42

I was brought back to the word peace and living at peace and

Tim Winders: 00:27:47

adventure, but I want to pause that because I think this is a good time

Tim Winders: 00:27:51

for me to ask about, about courage.

Tim Winders: 00:27:53

And I'm sitting here looking at a list of some of the things you've created.

Tim Winders: 00:27:58

I'm sure it's not all, but we've got the courage for life, which is the ministry.

Tim Winders: 00:28:03

Courage for Life Study Guide, obviously the book that you've got,

Tim Winders: 00:28:06

Courage for Life, Courage for My Life Workbooks, Courage for Life Study

Tim Winders: 00:28:10

Bible for Women, Courage for Life Study Bible for Men, Courage for

Tim Winders: 00:28:13

Life Female Voiced Audio Bible App.

Tim Winders: 00:28:17

Obviously, that word, Courage.

Tim Winders: 00:28:19

Courage means quite a bit to you.

Tim Winders: 00:28:22

Talk to me about the word courage and then maybe lead into how

Tim Winders: 00:28:27

that became what I look at.

Tim Winders: 00:28:29

It seems sort of foundational for the ministry and the organization.

Tim Winders: 00:28:34

So courage.

Ann White: 00:28:36

So I thought as a, I always thought I was courageous.

Ann White: 00:28:40

Because I felt like I was this big, strong person and could do

Ann White: 00:28:44

anything that I needed to do.

Ann White: 00:28:46

Right?

Ann White: 00:28:47

As a kid, I loved roller coasters.

Ann White: 00:28:49

I wasn't afraid of anything.

Ann White: 00:28:51

we had six flags over Georgia, right?

Ann White: 00:28:54

And we had the Scream Machine when we were growing up.

Ann White: 00:28:57

That was our big wooden roller coaster.

Ann White: 00:29:00

Well, I'll never forget the time that they turned the entire car around.

Ann White: 00:29:06

So you were riding backwards because I'd always ride in the first car.

Ann White: 00:29:10

And so I was one of the first ones to get on the Scream Machine when they

Ann White: 00:29:14

had turned it around and you're in the back car, but you're the first car

Ann White: 00:29:18

going down the hill backwards, right?

Ann White: 00:29:21

No fear at all.

Ann White: 00:29:22

Now it's different today, but that's how I used to define courage today.

Ann White: 00:29:27

I define courage is taking a necessary risk and trusting God with the outcome.

Ann White: 00:29:34

So it has to be a necessary risk.

Ann White: 00:29:36

It has to be something that you risk in order to have courage.

Ann White: 00:29:39

You got to have a little bit of fear to have courage, right?

Ann White: 00:29:42

A little bit of, you know, I'm not sure what's going to happen.

Ann White: 00:29:45

And so today I define that.

Ann White: 00:29:48

And so that was what happened that night in Israel.

Ann White: 00:29:50

God's telling me to write down the reality of my life.

Ann White: 00:29:54

You know, I'm going into church pretending that I'm, and wasn't

Ann White: 00:29:58

pretending my heart was right, but I was hiding the hurt and the brokenness

Ann White: 00:30:03

and the real person that was inside.

Ann White: 00:30:06

And so now I had to uncover that real person to someone who was.

Ann White: 00:30:11

A mentor, you know, someone I obviously looked up to, a pastor of a large

Ann White: 00:30:16

church of 17, 000 members at the time.

Ann White: 00:30:19

It was like, yeah, that was, that was hard.

Ann White: 00:30:22

That took courage.

Ann White: 00:30:22

And so as I began walking through those steps and then went into counseling

Ann White: 00:30:27

and began walking through additional steps of unpacking the things that

Ann White: 00:30:32

I'd been toting around the baggage and hurt and, self condemnation and stuff.

Ann White: 00:30:37

It took a lot of courage to do that.

Ann White: 00:30:39

And then it took courage to birth that ministry because I had

Ann White: 00:30:43

never spoken in front of a group.

Ann White: 00:30:45

I had never written anything in my life.

Ann White: 00:30:47

I didn't even really like to read anything other than the Bible at that point.

Ann White: 00:30:52

And so I really had no clue what God was going to do.

Ann White: 00:30:56

But I remember saying to the Lord, my God, my hands are open.

Ann White: 00:31:00

I feel you calling me.

Ann White: 00:31:02

My heart's always been for hurting people.

Ann White: 00:31:04

You're calling me to reach hurting people.

Ann White: 00:31:07

God, just tell me how and I'll do it.

Ann White: 00:31:11

And as he began to say.

Ann White: 00:31:14

write this book and talk about how you worked through your issues,

Ann White: 00:31:19

how you overcame your issues.

Ann White: 00:31:20

And that became the seven steps to courage.

Ann White: 00:31:22

as he began to do that, I just began to say, yes, as he began to offer me

Ann White: 00:31:26

opportunities within a year or so, after I went into ministry, To go on television,

Ann White: 00:31:32

a Christian television program called the Christian view and also work with a

Ann White: 00:31:36

local TV network, with their program being a host on their Christian TV program.

Ann White: 00:31:42

And I'm going, I'm not qualified.

Ann White: 00:31:44

I'm a little jeweler that sits behind a desk and creates things that way.

Ann White: 00:31:48

I'm not out in the public, but God said, this is where I want you.

Ann White: 00:31:52

And I would pray about it.

Ann White: 00:31:53

And he'd say, go.

Ann White: 00:31:55

And I'd say, okay, what's the worst thing that could happen?

Ann White: 00:31:59

But courage at that point became.

Ann White: 00:32:01

Taking that necessary risk because I knew God had opened that door.

Ann White: 00:32:05

I knew he was calling me to do something, but I needed to trust him with the outcome

Ann White: 00:32:10

because even if I fell flat on my face, he was going to do something with it.

Ann White: 00:32:14

He was going to either help me to grow in the process.

Ann White: 00:32:18

He was going to use it to minister to somebody else.

Ann White: 00:32:20

And so that's been my life these last, gosh, started in 2012,

Ann White: 00:32:25

the ministry birthed in 2014.

Ann White: 00:32:28

And so here we are 10 years, 12 years later.

Ann White: 00:32:31

And, it's amazing, what he's done for me.

Ann White: 00:32:33

I wouldn't be here talking with you today had I have not said yes

Ann White: 00:32:38

and had the courage to simply trust him with whatever he had in store.

Tim Winders: 00:32:44

I want to keep going down that path because I want to talk

Tim Winders: 00:32:47

about some prison ministry and the digital ministry and things you have.

Tim Winders: 00:32:50

But question just popped in my head when you brought up your business

Tim Winders: 00:32:55

and we've got a lot of people that are in the marketplace ministry.

Tim Winders: 00:32:59

And so I guess the question I'd like to ask is what's.

Tim Winders: 00:33:04

Gone on in your, we'll call it your profession.

Tim Winders: 00:33:08

See, I don't separate out.

Tim Winders: 00:33:10

I was saved at a business conference, so I don't separate out that stuff.

Tim Winders: 00:33:14

But what what can you tell me about your business life in the last 10 or 12

Tim Winders: 00:33:22

years while this ministry Project has been growing, building and expanding.

Tim Winders: 00:33:29

and because someone would say, wow, doesn't seem like she's probably

Tim Winders: 00:33:33

got enough time to do well at both.

Ann White: 00:33:36

Not at all.

Ann White: 00:33:37

No, I can tell you that I have not, I've stepped into my studio.

Ann White: 00:33:42

I've done a few little repairs on some things throughout the years, these years.

Ann White: 00:33:46

But in the last 10 years, I have not created any jewelry whatsoever.

Ann White: 00:33:53

I gave it, I've set it to the side and I'm very blessed.

Ann White: 00:33:56

my husband, He has an amazing story, but I've known him since high school

Ann White: 00:34:01

and he has always been a hard worker.

Ann White: 00:34:04

He birthed a business in his early twenties and has

Ann White: 00:34:08

been extremely successful.

Ann White: 00:34:10

And so just so God would have it, he sold a piece of his business, back when

Ann White: 00:34:17

God was calling me to birth a ministry.

Ann White: 00:34:19

And so we were in a position to invest in that ministry because it

Ann White: 00:34:23

takes a good bit to get a website up, to get your logo, to get everything

Ann White: 00:34:30

incorporated, so forth and so on.

Ann White: 00:34:31

Cause I knew God, I'd been in ministry.

Ann White: 00:34:33

I was ministering to people, but God was calling me to birth a nonprofit.

Ann White: 00:34:37

I knew it.

Ann White: 00:34:37

I couldn't get it off my heart and my mind.

Ann White: 00:34:39

I knew what he was calling me to do.

Ann White: 00:34:41

I was very blessed that my husband was in a position and we were in a

Ann White: 00:34:46

position at that point to invest in this and to really put the money up

Ann White: 00:34:50

front to get the ministry off the ground the first two or three years.

Ann White: 00:34:54

And we also had dear friends that believed in, you know, what we were doing.

Ann White: 00:34:57

I still didn't know exactly what it was all going to entail.

Ann White: 00:35:01

But they believed enough in me and what God was calling us to do,

Ann White: 00:35:04

that they would come alongside us and partner with us in this 501c3.

Ann White: 00:35:08

So to answer your question, no, I had to give it all up.

Ann White: 00:35:12

And I knew I had no problem giving it up because that's what

Ann White: 00:35:15

the Lord was calling me to do.

Ann White: 00:35:17

And I was blessed to be in a situation where my husband is

Ann White: 00:35:20

the breadwinner of the family.

Ann White: 00:35:22

He can take care of us very well and also, help me pour into not only emotionally

Ann White: 00:35:29

and time wise into this ministry, but also pour financial resources into the

Ann White: 00:35:34

ministry to help get it where it is today, which we are, you know, we may have been

Ann White: 00:35:39

a 75 percent donor in the beginning.

Ann White: 00:35:42

Today, we're able to be about a 20, you know, 15 to 20 percent donor.

Ann White: 00:35:47

We have foundations and Great partners that come alongside us,

Ann White: 00:35:53

and believe in what we're doing.

Tim Winders: 00:35:54

typically when someone has success in a career like you did,

Tim Winders: 00:35:58

their identity is somewhat tied to it.

Tim Winders: 00:36:01

And you said you put that aside.

Tim Winders: 00:36:03

Were there any, I.

Tim Winders: 00:36:05

Identity issues, I don't want to say issues with that, none at all.

Tim Winders: 00:36:10

I mean, what, you know, I mean, because, because you even said it earlier on,

Tim Winders: 00:36:14

I'm, I'm a jeweler, you know, you said what did, but it sounds as if

Tim Winders: 00:36:17

it's been a little while since you've actually hands on done that, correct?

Ann White: 00:36:21

Yeah, I can pick it back up today, but God has called

Ann White: 00:36:25

me to other things and I have found such joy, so much joy in the

Ann White: 00:36:31

things that he's called me to do.

Ann White: 00:36:33

And there's such a great reward.

Ann White: 00:36:35

I really feel like I'm leaving a legacy.

Ann White: 00:36:38

when we.

Ann White: 00:36:39

First we're birthing the ministry.

Ann White: 00:36:40

It was okay.

Ann White: 00:36:41

What's the name going to be?

Ann White: 00:36:42

And you asked me about courage.

Ann White: 00:36:43

I'll go ahead and roll there.

Ann White: 00:36:44

If you're good with that, where did that come in?

Ann White: 00:36:48

Okay, so we're going to birth a ministry.

Ann White: 00:36:50

What's the name going to be?

Ann White: 00:36:52

And I'm praying about it and thinking about it and so forth and so on.

Ann White: 00:36:55

And I was able to acquire and white.

Ann White: 00:36:59

com.

Ann White: 00:37:01

And so I had, who, someone who had become a good friend who I'd met.

Ann White: 00:37:05

It's, Phil and Kathleen Cook, Cook Media Group out of California.

Ann White: 00:37:09

And I'd met them at a conference, the National Religious

Ann White: 00:37:12

Broadcasting Conference.

Ann White: 00:37:13

as I was beginning To brand this ministry, he wrote a book called one big thing and

Ann White: 00:37:20

he talks about how, if we were living in this noisy world, there's so much social

Ann White: 00:37:26

media, so much coming at us at all times.

Ann White: 00:37:29

we need to figure out specifically what unique message he has given

Ann White: 00:37:33

us to share with the world.

Ann White: 00:37:35

And so the first thing that I had a lot of people say was it needs to be and white

Ann White: 00:37:39

ministries because, you've got in white.

Ann White: 00:37:42

com and you know, everybody wants to follow a person.

Ann White: 00:37:45

And I understand that, but I never felt the Lord calling me.

Ann White: 00:37:50

To make it and white ministries, no matter what I had.

Ann White: 00:37:53

And I said, that doesn't feel right to me.

Ann White: 00:37:56

I know that's not what God's calling.

Ann White: 00:37:59

And here's why I want, I wanted to leave something that could be left

Ann White: 00:38:04

behind that could go on indefinitely.

Ann White: 00:38:07

It doesn't end with me.

Ann White: 00:38:09

It's not about me.

Ann White: 00:38:11

This is about what the Lord has called all of us to do.

Ann White: 00:38:14

And so bringing others into the fold and.

Ann White: 00:38:19

Becoming courage for life.

Ann White: 00:38:21

When Phil asked me, it was a fifth, my first phone call

Ann White: 00:38:24

was a 15 minute phone call.

Ann White: 00:38:26

and my husband was in the car.

Ann White: 00:38:27

we're getting ready to go ride bikes.

Ann White: 00:38:29

And so I'm taking this phone call.

Ann White: 00:38:30

he says to me, he said, I want you to, we're going to talk again.

Ann White: 00:38:33

He said, but I want you to pray about and think about if you had to define your

Ann White: 00:38:39

message in one word, what would it be?

Ann White: 00:38:43

I knew right away what it was courage.

Ann White: 00:38:46

I had the courage to be transparent.

Ann White: 00:38:49

I had the courage to say yes and not know what the outcome is.

Ann White: 00:38:53

I had the courage to do things like go on television or speak in front

Ann White: 00:38:58

of groups that I'd never done before.

Ann White: 00:39:02

And it was only because I felt like the Lord was giving me the

Ann White: 00:39:06

courage to accomplish his will.

Ann White: 00:39:09

My relationship with him is what gave me the courage.

Ann White: 00:39:12

And then shortly after that, as I was writing the book that God told

Ann White: 00:39:17

me to write, that I said, no, I don't want to write a book, I don't

Ann White: 00:39:20

have any desire to write a book.

Ann White: 00:39:21

Then I said, okay, Lord, if I'm going to write a book, I want to

Ann White: 00:39:24

write the book that I needed to read.

Ann White: 00:39:27

A book that speaks to not only my life journey, but helps people have

Ann White: 00:39:32

practical steps that they can take.

Ann White: 00:39:35

And as I was coming up with the steps that I took.

Ann White: 00:39:39

To go from fear based decision making to faith based decision making.

Ann White: 00:39:45

God gave me those seven practical steps and they go along with the word courage.

Ann White: 00:39:50

So it's evident that was what he had in store for me.

Ann White: 00:39:54

That is my word.

Ann White: 00:39:56

I'm okay with being the courage lady.

Ann White: 00:39:59

So call me what you will.

Ann White: 00:40:00

it's all good.

Tim Winders: 00:40:01

It's fascinating because a lot of people go through

Tim Winders: 00:40:03

that wrestling match, branding and, you know, using your name.

Tim Winders: 00:40:08

And I, I.

Tim Winders: 00:40:10

Do I do think there are times that it makes sense.

Tim Winders: 00:40:14

I have people all the time sending me messages on LinkedIn.

Tim Winders: 00:40:17

Let me, what's going on with your personal brand.

Tim Winders: 00:40:19

Can I help you with your personal brand?

Tim Winders: 00:40:20

and I finally answered a few of them back.

Tim Winders: 00:40:23

I said, listen, I hate to say, I don't really give a rip about my personal brand.

Tim Winders: 00:40:26

It's not, it's not about that.

Tim Winders: 00:40:29

I do want to say though, how cool that you interacted with Phil.

Tim Winders: 00:40:32

He was a guest here at seek, go create back in spring of 2020.

Tim Winders: 00:40:37

So very cool that you had someone of his caliber to help you with that could mentor

Tim Winders: 00:40:43

disciple a little bit along the way there.

Tim Winders: 00:40:46

That was, that was very cool.

Tim Winders: 00:40:48

Give me, there's a few things I want to do here.

Tim Winders: 00:40:50

I'm watching our time.

Tim Winders: 00:40:53

You see, you mentioned there are seven steps.

Tim Winders: 00:40:55

I don't know that we have time to go through all seven unless you can rattle

Tim Winders: 00:40:58

them off real quickly, but I'd love for you to, with one of them that you just,

Tim Winders: 00:41:04

either the Holy Spirit tells you, you need to spend a little bit of time on,

Tim Winders: 00:41:07

or you feel as if it's on your heart.

Tim Winders: 00:41:10

Just, give us a little bit of that.

Tim Winders: 00:41:12

And then I want to finish up with a little bit more of the other ministry

Tim Winders: 00:41:16

projects that y'all have going on.

Tim Winders: 00:41:17

So give us the seven or one of the seven or both.

Tim Winders: 00:41:22

Uh, in the

Ann White: 00:41:23

I'll do it I think that I can.

Ann White: 00:41:26

So the C step commit to change.

Ann White: 00:41:29

Unless we make a commitment, God's calling us to change something every day.

Ann White: 00:41:33

It may just be our attitude, but unless we commit and say, okay, Lord, I give in,

Ann White: 00:41:37

I'm going to do this good, bad, or ugly.

Ann White: 00:41:40

that's where it starts.

Ann White: 00:41:42

It begins with a commitment.

Ann White: 00:41:43

That you're going to make that change.

Ann White: 00:41:45

O is overcome obstacles.

Ann White: 00:41:48

Satan's going to throw all sorts of obstacles in our way.

Ann White: 00:41:50

They might be fear of our own fears.

Ann White: 00:41:53

They might be other people don't want us to make those changes.

Ann White: 00:41:57

There's a lot of things that, that can come in and those obstacles.

Ann White: 00:42:00

So that's overcome obstacles.

Ann White: 00:42:01

We have to identify them and figure out how we're going to overcome them.

Ann White: 00:42:04

You is uncover your true self.

Ann White: 00:42:07

We need to uncover who God says about who he says we are.

Ann White: 00:42:12

Quit worrying about what the world says we are and quit

Ann White: 00:42:14

believing even what we say we are.

Ann White: 00:42:16

Sometimes we have our own worst negative view of ourselves.

Ann White: 00:42:21

So that you step uncover your true self is extremely important, no

Ann White: 00:42:25

matter who we're working with.

Ann White: 00:42:26

the R step.

Ann White: 00:42:28

This is an important one.

Ann White: 00:42:29

Replace worldly lies with scriptural truth.

Ann White: 00:42:34

the world's going to throw at us all sorts of lies, even ones that

Ann White: 00:42:37

we might believe are biblical.

Ann White: 00:42:40

But if we don't know the scriptures, if we don't know God's word.

Ann White: 00:42:44

We can't deny those lies.

Ann White: 00:42:46

So we've got to know God's word, replace the lies and move forward from there.

Ann White: 00:42:52

We get to the a step.

Ann White: 00:42:53

Now this was the most difficult for me except the things you cannot change.

Ann White: 00:42:58

I couldn't change other people.

Ann White: 00:43:00

I thought I could, but I spent 20 some odd years trying.

Ann White: 00:43:04

I can't change them.

Ann White: 00:43:06

There's one person I can change and that's me.

Ann White: 00:43:08

But when I change myself, things around me automatically change.

Ann White: 00:43:12

People take notice and things begin to change.

Ann White: 00:43:16

So accept the things you cannot change.

Ann White: 00:43:17

You can't change your past, but you can change your future.

Ann White: 00:43:20

Change the things you can.

Ann White: 00:43:22

And then the G step, grasp God's love for you.

Ann White: 00:43:25

We have got to truly understand.

Ann White: 00:43:27

God loves us unconditionally, unfathomably.

Ann White: 00:43:31

His love is so beautiful.

Ann White: 00:43:32

We've got to embrace that and it gives us great peace and joy.

Ann White: 00:43:36

And then here's our good final step, which is embrace a life of grace.

Ann White: 00:43:41

This is our forgiveness.

Ann White: 00:43:43

And this is one that I felt was really important because for many

Ann White: 00:43:46

years I blamed my dad but, I blamed him for a lot of the issues that I

Ann White: 00:43:52

had, a lot of the baggage that I had.

Ann White: 00:43:54

though I loved him, he was a very broken man.

Ann White: 00:43:58

And so, but it wasn't until.

Ann White: 00:44:02

After he passed away, after I wrote the book and after I was talking with

Ann White: 00:44:05

some family members that I realized what a tragic childhood I never knew.

Ann White: 00:44:11

I knew he was the baby of nine, grew up in inner city Charlotte, had an alcoholic

Ann White: 00:44:15

father, but I didn't know anything else.

Ann White: 00:44:17

And so it was embracing grace.

Ann White: 00:44:19

And this is where we work, whether it's with an inmate in prison or whether

Ann White: 00:44:23

it's with someone across the world where we're discipling digitally.

Ann White: 00:44:28

Or right here in our own neighborhoods, you know, with people that are hurting.

Ann White: 00:44:34

We talk about embracing that grace piece, because if we don't identify

Ann White: 00:44:39

and forgive those who have wounded us, we're just going to continue to

Ann White: 00:44:43

carry that hurt, that bitterness, that unforgiveness around with us.

Ann White: 00:44:47

And it's going to continue to hinder us from all that God's called us to do.

Ann White: 00:44:51

So setting healthy boundaries is something I talk about a lot in the book.

Ann White: 00:44:55

It's woven all throughout.

Ann White: 00:44:57

I talk about a real holistic approach to our health, you

Ann White: 00:45:01

know, to our physical, emotional, relational, and spiritual health.

Ann White: 00:45:04

They all work together.

Ann White: 00:45:05

And we talk about that in the book.

Ann White: 00:45:08

but that forgiveness piece, that releasing.

Ann White: 00:45:11

Of that pain and that hurt helps so many inmates and helps so many people

Ann White: 00:45:16

across the world be able to move forward.

Ann White: 00:45:19

Now that doesn't mean I don't need to set a healthy boundary with someone

Ann White: 00:45:22

who's toxic or someone who continues to hurt me, but I can move forward.

Ann White: 00:45:29

let go of that pain and recognize that person as a broken person and forgive

Ann White: 00:45:33

that person and move forward myself.

Ann White: 00:45:37

So that's the seven steps to courage.

Ann White: 00:45:39

Probably my least favorite is accept the things that cannot change.

Ann White: 00:45:43

My most favorite, really all of them, but the R step replace

Ann White: 00:45:48

worldly lies with scriptural truth because it keeps my mind right.

Ann White: 00:45:51

God tells us, and I know I'm speaking to the choir, but renew your minds.

Ann White: 00:45:56

We have to do that because the world wants to interject so much junk

Ann White: 00:46:01

so often we've got to be able to renew our minds with God's truth.

Tim Winders: 00:46:07

well, the choir needs to be preached to often also, just 'cause

Tim Winders: 00:46:10

they're sitting in the choir loft does not mean they have perfected their lives.

Ann White: 00:46:14

me either.

Tim Winders: 00:46:15

thanks for preach, thanks for preaching to, and sometimes

Tim Winders: 00:46:18

the choir needs more preaching than actually the, the congregation

Tim Winders: 00:46:20

as we won't go down that path.

Tim Winders: 00:46:22

Alright, so, so the book, you developed the

Tim Winders: 00:46:25

book and then other things started to spin off all the things I read off.

Tim Winders: 00:46:30

Gimme a little bit of kind of the.

Tim Winders: 00:46:32

of what was created when, because some things started spinning off after, was

Tim Winders: 00:46:37

it after, was the book the first thing or what was one of the first things y'all

Ann White: 00:46:41

So the book was the first thing I have a study guide.

Ann White: 00:46:43

That's a, an in depth kind of study that goes along with the book.

Ann White: 00:46:48

And that can, you know, it's kind of a companion set.

Ann White: 00:46:51

And then, it was the audio Bible.

Ann White: 00:46:53

I knew I wanted to, reach.

Ann White: 00:46:56

Hurting women at the time was my thought process, women in crisis

Ann White: 00:47:00

pregnancy centers, battered women's shelters, homeless shelters, so forth,

Ann White: 00:47:03

with an audible version of the word.

Ann White: 00:47:05

Many of them read on a lower reading level.

Ann White: 00:47:08

Many of them don't have access to the word.

Ann White: 00:47:10

Many of them have children and so They needed something where they

Ann White: 00:47:13

could hear God's word, but not in a voice that reminded them of

Ann White: 00:47:17

someone that possibly wounded them.

Ann White: 00:47:20

So we have many women that have dealt with abuse and so forth that we work with.

Ann White: 00:47:24

So, we wanted to create a female voiced audio Bible.

Ann White: 00:47:28

Couldn't find one out there that wasn't dramatized or wasn't just new testaments.

Ann White: 00:47:33

So we got with Phil Cook, who you mentioned earlier, he and his team and

Ann White: 00:47:37

his wife's on our board of directors.

Ann White: 00:47:39

And so we got with their team out in Burbank, California, and we recorded

Ann White: 00:47:44

at the time, it was about 2017.

Ann White: 00:47:45

We started it and we released it in 2019, the first fully female voiced

Ann White: 00:47:51

audio Bible from Genesis to revelation.

Ann White: 00:47:53

It's on, the courage for life Bible app.

Ann White: 00:47:56

You can get on an, Apple or Android device for free.

Ann White: 00:48:00

And it is.

Ann White: 00:48:01

I know I'm a little bit prejudiced, but I truly believe it's one of

Ann White: 00:48:05

the best readings of God's word.

Ann White: 00:48:08

And we use 15 different women from different walks of life, different

Ann White: 00:48:12

age groups, ethnic backgrounds, but clear English speaking voices.

Ann White: 00:48:16

it's soothing.

Ann White: 00:48:17

It just draws you in.

Ann White: 00:48:18

I've had people say they listen to it when they're going to sleep at night.

Ann White: 00:48:22

We have it on inmates tablets throughout the United States in 37 states.

Ann White: 00:48:28

And so inmates can download it for free.

Ann White: 00:48:30

We have, Thousands and thousands that have done so.

Ann White: 00:48:34

And we've found that the men are enjoying it as much as the women are.

Ann White: 00:48:39

which was surprising to me at first, because these men, many of

Ann White: 00:48:43

them come from fatherless homes.

Ann White: 00:48:45

hearing it in a woman's voice is actually very soothing to them as well.

Ann White: 00:48:48

So men love this audio Bible apt.

Ann White: 00:48:50

Tyndale picked it up.

Ann White: 00:48:52

They've got it on their, audio Bible streaming and on new version and so

Ann White: 00:48:56

forth, but if you want to download just that from our website, you can

Ann White: 00:49:00

just go to your Apple or Android and look for the courage for life Bible

Ann White: 00:49:04

app and download it there from there.

Ann White: 00:49:07

We wanted a Bible that.

Ann White: 00:49:11

Would be helpful for new believers or for people who were new to God's word.

Ann White: 00:49:16

Maybe they're seasoned believers, but they're new to God's word.

Ann White: 00:49:19

That would be easy to understand and encouraging, especially even

Ann White: 00:49:23

for our inmates as well, that would give them introduction.

Ann White: 00:49:27

So we created the Courage for Life Study Bible for men and the Courage

Ann White: 00:49:32

for Life Study Bible for women.

Ann White: 00:49:33

Women, they're not only beautiful, They're gorgeous, but they are

Ann White: 00:49:38

packed full of great information.

Ann White: 00:49:40

You've got introductions to the Bible, to the testaments, to each book of the

Ann White: 00:49:44

Bible, answering all of your who, what, when, where, why, and how about each book.

Ann White: 00:49:50

Like, how do I study this book?

Ann White: 00:49:52

Who wrote this book?

Ann White: 00:49:53

Why did they write this book?

Ann White: 00:49:54

What's going on?

Ann White: 00:49:56

Helping you put God's word into context.

Ann White: 00:49:59

And then when you go to read that book on the bottom of every single

Ann White: 00:50:03

scripture page is a Bible study.

Ann White: 00:50:07

That's 1, 464 practical application Bible studies that are all surrounded around

Ann White: 00:50:15

courage and building courage in our lives.

Ann White: 00:50:18

And what is God calling us to do in these seven steps?

Ann White: 00:50:20

What change is he calling us to make?

Ann White: 00:50:22

What obstacle do we need to overcome?

Ann White: 00:50:25

And so forth.

Ann White: 00:50:26

So we go through all of that in each one of the study Bibles and Tyndale,

Ann White: 00:50:31

they've been flying off the shelves.

Ann White: 00:50:33

They released last October of 2023.

Ann White: 00:50:37

And it's over 50, 000 in sales.

Ann White: 00:50:40

In addition to that, we've put more than 10, 000 into the prison systems

Ann White: 00:50:46

just in these last nine months.

Ann White: 00:50:48

And so we're raising funds all the time as someone would help

Ann White: 00:50:52

to support Courage for Life.

Ann White: 00:50:53

We are a donor funded ministry that gives free resources to The prison

Ann White: 00:50:59

systems in jails and also to addiction clinics anywhere where someone's being

Ann White: 00:51:04

treated for an emotional or, issue for, you know, just dealing with abuse,

Ann White: 00:51:11

neglect or, or trauma in their life.

Ann White: 00:51:14

So, that's kind of who we are.

Ann White: 00:51:16

We have the audio Bibles and my last devotional is courage for today.

Ann White: 00:51:21

That's just come out with broad street publishing.

Ann White: 00:51:23

So the goal is really help provide.

Ann White: 00:51:29

Discipleship materials that can help equip you for everyday life.

Ann White: 00:51:35

They can draw you closer to the Lord, closer to his word, helping you

Ann White: 00:51:40

understand and break down anything that feels like it's a barrier in your life

Ann White: 00:51:44

between you and living the life God intended you to live with great courage.

Tim Winders: 00:51:51

Are people, one of the things we talked about earlier was

Tim Winders: 00:51:53

just being in a surrender position.

Tim Winders: 00:51:57

You went through that in your life.

Tim Winders: 00:51:59

I've been through it in my life.

Tim Winders: 00:52:00

I think most people, when they go to a deeper place in their

Tim Winders: 00:52:04

relationship with the Lord, there usually is something like that.

Tim Winders: 00:52:10

We've interviewed, we've had a few people that have spent some time in

Tim Winders: 00:52:13

prison that have gone through that process and, and, and we've talked

Tim Winders: 00:52:18

to them here, but what do you see?

Tim Winders: 00:52:22

What's the posture in general of that group?

Tim Winders: 00:52:26

I know it's hard to generalize versus what we were talking about at the

Tim Winders: 00:52:30

beginning of this podcast, which is the people that show up in church for

Tim Winders: 00:52:34

a few minutes, do their church thing.

Tim Winders: 00:52:36

Give a contrast for us.

Tim Winders: 00:52:38

This could be close to our last question, but, um, seems like some

Tim Winders: 00:52:42

people are ready and I think more people need to be ready and I don't

Tim Winders: 00:52:45

think we need them all to go to

Ann White: 00:52:47

Oh, I agree 100%.

Ann White: 00:52:49

We can be in our own emotional prison sitting in a church pew.

Ann White: 00:52:53

So I think many, many of us are there and I was there, so I

Ann White: 00:52:57

can relate to that side of it.

Ann White: 00:52:59

When God began to open the door into the prison system, I was blown away

Ann White: 00:53:03

at how much I learned, about our prison system here in the United

Ann White: 00:53:07

States and what I've discovered, it is one of the greatest harvest fields.

Ann White: 00:53:13

for discipleship and for salvation.

Ann White: 00:53:17

And so I really feel it's the mission field God has called us to, even though

Ann White: 00:53:21

I've been to India, I've been to Africa, I've been a lot of places and I continue

Ann White: 00:53:25

to minister to a lot of the people there.

Ann White: 00:53:28

But God's called us specifically here in the United States to the prisons.

Ann White: 00:53:32

And we put a ton of content, free content in.

Ann White: 00:53:36

We also run classes.

Ann White: 00:53:37

And those are those courage from my life workbooks, which are taking our content

Ann White: 00:53:42

and putting it into a workbook format, helping inmates walk through those

Ann White: 00:53:47

seven steps to courage, breaking down.

Ann White: 00:53:51

the trauma that they've experienced and begin to express and let it come

Ann White: 00:53:56

out the things that they've, that they're going through, that's holding

Ann White: 00:53:59

them back, but making those necessary changes and beginning to put all of those

Ann White: 00:54:04

steps into place so that they can now.

Ann White: 00:54:08

Have the courage to set out on a new path, a new life journey with the Lord.

Ann White: 00:54:13

So that has been very successful.

Ann White: 00:54:15

and we're in nine states now and continuing to add more states

Ann White: 00:54:20

on all the time with our classes and their small group classes.

Ann White: 00:54:24

And we give Bibles to those as well.

Ann White: 00:54:27

But it is, it has been an amazing journey to work with them.

Ann White: 00:54:31

I see that there's so much potential.

Ann White: 00:54:33

We don't deal with a lot of the mental health issues.

Ann White: 00:54:37

We deal with the more emotional health issues, which a majority of inmates have.

Ann White: 00:54:43

Many of them come from broken homes where there were a lot of, Issues that they

Ann White: 00:54:50

dealt with in childhood that the baggage that they took on was a lot deeper and

Ann White: 00:54:55

the wounds were a lot deeper than what I experienced but It led them on a path

Ann White: 00:55:01

to try and self medicate or to help to support that habit by either stealing,

Ann White: 00:55:09

prostitution, or all of the above.

Ann White: 00:55:12

And in the United States, we have, at any given time, approximately 2

Ann White: 00:55:15

million people in our prison systems.

Ann White: 00:55:18

600, 000 of those rotate in and out of the doors every year.

Ann White: 00:55:24

So you get a new group in all the time.

Ann White: 00:55:27

And if we can.

Ann White: 00:55:28

help break down a little bit of that pain and hurt and suffering so that

Ann White: 00:55:34

when they do come back home, they're better grounded with God and his word.

Ann White: 00:55:38

And they're kind of healed somewhat from some of their scars.

Ann White: 00:55:43

They have a better chance of reuniting with their family in healthy ways.

Ann White: 00:55:47

You reuniting with their communities, churches in healthy ways.

Ann White: 00:55:51

And that is our greatest desire.

Ann White: 00:55:53

So we've only been doing this now.

Ann White: 00:55:55

We've been in the prison system since about 2019.

Ann White: 00:55:58

So about five years.

Ann White: 00:55:59

our chaplains, our wardens, the testimonies we received back, you can

Ann White: 00:56:03

go on our website at courageforlife.

Ann White: 00:56:05

org and see videos.

Ann White: 00:56:07

from some of the inmates, talking about their experience with the classes.

Ann White: 00:56:11

And, we just, we're thankful that God gives us that open door

Ann White: 00:56:15

because it is a mission field.

Ann White: 00:56:17

And you said, what's the difference?

Ann White: 00:56:19

The difference is they've got the time.

Ann White: 00:56:21

God has set them there for a period of time or allowed them to be there.

Ann White: 00:56:26

They have the time to make these changes and prepare for those

Ann White: 00:56:31

that are coming back out, to see a difference in a change in their lives.

Ann White: 00:56:36

It's a blessing.

Tim Winders: 00:56:38

They don't have as many of the distractions that we have outside.

Tim Winders: 00:56:43

We have, we have a different prison

Ann White: 00:56:45

Amen.

Tim Winders: 00:56:46

and you mentioned the website, I've actually got it

Tim Winders: 00:56:48

pulled up here, courageforlife.

Tim Winders: 00:56:49

org.

Tim Winders: 00:56:50

I think one of the things is almost my final question.

Tim Winders: 00:56:54

I would like for you to verbalize for us right now is what's the biggest need?

Tim Winders: 00:57:00

What is the biggest need that you have with what you're seeing with the

Tim Winders: 00:57:06

ministries and tell us what it is and give the ask, tell people what it is and ask.

Ann White: 00:57:12

Thank you, Tim.

Ann White: 00:57:13

I really appreciate that because, that is our, our challenge is

Ann White: 00:57:17

keeping up with the growth.

Ann White: 00:57:19

God opens doors every single day into different prison systems, into

Ann White: 00:57:24

different communities, addiction clinics, and so forth, and our

Ann White: 00:57:28

resources are making a difference.

Ann White: 00:57:31

But we have got to keep up, keep printing those.

Ann White: 00:57:35

we, every dime that comes into Courage for Life, we only have two salaried employees

Ann White: 00:57:40

and those are just keeping the doors open.

Ann White: 00:57:42

I create all the content.

Ann White: 00:57:44

I work on video teaching through Books of the Bible that you can see on our

Ann White: 00:57:48

YouTube channel or on our website.

Ann White: 00:57:51

And those all go into the prison system too.

Ann White: 00:57:53

So, but the main thing is we have donor funded resources.

Ann White: 00:57:57

We give those resources free into those clinics to help them walk it.

Ann White: 00:58:02

That journey with that inmate or that client and, we need partners.

Ann White: 00:58:08

We desperately need partners.

Ann White: 00:58:09

We need monthly partners.

Ann White: 00:58:11

So if anyone would consider becoming a monthly partner, even if it's

Ann White: 00:58:14

5, 10 or 15, 20 a month, that is.

Ann White: 00:58:18

Tremendously wonderful for us.

Ann White: 00:58:19

We want you to, get our resources.

Ann White: 00:58:22

We want you to engage in our Bible app and our, all of the other resources,

Ann White: 00:58:27

our video teaching, it's all free, but we can't do it without supporters.

Ann White: 00:58:33

and so we have several foundations.

Ann White: 00:58:35

So We need more supporters because God is opening doors like crazy for us, but

Ann White: 00:58:40

we need help walking through those doors.

Ann White: 00:58:42

So thank you for asking that.

Ann White: 00:58:44

And you can reach us at courageforlife.

Ann White: 00:58:45

org, spelled just like it sounds, courage for life, O R G Check out our page,

Ann White: 00:58:54

check out all of our content, buy our resources, share our message, and help us

Ann White: 00:59:00

to grow and expand throughout the United States and really throughout the world.

Tim Winders: 00:59:04

I've got it pulled up right here in front of me.

Tim Winders: 00:59:06

And, what I think we should do is let's.

Tim Winders: 00:59:09

Let that be the place where people go We'll include the links down in the notes

Tim Winders: 00:59:14

and in all the places that we include The that we're sharing all of this,

Tim Winders: 00:59:18

all the podcasts and everything and we are Seek, go create those three words.

Tim Winders: 00:59:24

You mentioned it earlier, and I know, you know, where those words come from.

Tim Winders: 00:59:28

I know, you know, they are very personal to me.

Tim Winders: 00:59:30

The Lord spoke them to me in a very unique and different way about

Tim Winders: 00:59:35

probably around 2012, somewhere in that range, down the road at Lake Oconee

Tim Winders: 00:59:41

Reynolds plantation Seek, go, create.

Tim Winders: 00:59:44

Let's see your personality.

Tim Winders: 00:59:45

I'm trying to think if I would be forcing you to give me one

Tim Winders: 00:59:48

word or I would be allowing you.

Tim Winders: 00:59:49

I don't know which one it would be, but give me one word out of those

Tim Winders: 00:59:53

three that just jumps out at you and why and that'll be my last question.

Ann White: 00:59:58

I'm going to say go that to me is if God is telling you to

Ann White: 01:00:01

do something, go take steps today.

Ann White: 01:00:04

if God is telling you to, to go to our website, go check us out, go with us.

Ann White: 01:00:11

Everybody can do something to help get the message out.

Ann White: 01:00:15

Our world is in desperate need of hope and encouragement and healing.

Ann White: 01:00:19

And, if you can go into a prison system, call us, we'll equip you with resources.

Ann White: 01:00:25

and encouragement and we'll get you there and on the way.

Ann White: 01:00:28

So just go do what God's calling you to do because, the time is short and,

Ann White: 01:00:35

you don't want to waste another minute.

Tim Winders: 01:00:38

Thank you for that.

Tim Winders: 01:00:39

And thank you for this conversation.

Tim Winders: 01:00:41

I appreciate your energy.

Tim Winders: 01:00:42

I appreciate the passion you have.

Tim Winders: 01:00:45

I appreciate your story and you sharing it, all the resources.

Tim Winders: 01:00:48

I appreciate your courage.

Tim Winders: 01:00:50

I appreciate your courage.

Tim Winders: 01:00:51

So make sure if you've listened in, go to courageforlife.

Tim Winders: 01:00:54

org and just check things out.

Tim Winders: 01:00:56

Give money, give a boatload of money.

Tim Winders: 01:00:58

give as much money as you feel comfortable giving, because I know

Tim Winders: 01:01:02

that that could go a long way.

Tim Winders: 01:01:04

but go there and support and share and do what you can there here at SeekGoCreate.

Tim Winders: 01:01:09

We have new episodes every Monday.

Tim Winders: 01:01:12

We're on YouTube.

Tim Winders: 01:01:12

We're on all the platforms until next time continue being

Tim Winders: 01:01:17

all that you were created to

Tim Winders: 01:01:19

be.