Redefining Entrepreneurship: A Kingdom-Driven Approach to Business and Life with Shae Bynes

Shae Bynes: 00:00:00

start having daily business meetings with God.

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Like act just like you would put meetings with other people, have daily business

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meetings with God and not just so that you can have your checklist of things.

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Look, I'm gonna pray for my clients.

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I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do that, but actually give him some space to create

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an agenda in your time together.

Tim Winders: 00:00:30

Welcome to Seek Go Create Tim Winders, your host here.

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Beautiful summer day here.

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We're hanging out in Rapid City, South Dakota.

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Our guest is down in Fort Lauderdale.

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It's 75 degrees where I'm at.

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Those watching, you might see the breeze with the curtain behind me cuz I got

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the windows open here in Theo, the rv.

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This is where we redefine success.

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in leadership, business, and ministry today, all three of those.

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We're gonna be hitting on all three of those with our guest.

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I'm excited.

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Let's dive right in.

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I've got Shae Bynes.

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She is a passionate storyteller, mentor and strategist who equips

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leaders to be catalyst for transformation in the marketplace.

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Love those words.

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she calls herself a Chief Fire Igniter.

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You could bet I'm gonna ask her about that.

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She co-founded what they call Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur,

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2012, a little over 10 years ago.

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Now.

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It's a global movement that is inspiring, teaching, mentoring, and advising

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Christ-centered entrepreneurs who desire to do business in partnership with God

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for greater kingdom influence and impact.

Tim Winders: 00:01:35

Welcome to Seek Go Create.

Shae Bynes: 00:01:38

Thank you Tim.

Shae Bynes: 00:01:39

I am really looking forward to our chat cuz I enjoyed our first one

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immensely and now we get to do a second one here for the podcast.

Shae Bynes: 00:01:46

So

Tim Winders: 00:01:46

Oh my goodness.

Tim Winders: 00:01:47

Yeah.

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Before I get into my first question, I, we had a great conversation, folks.

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Sometimes I go in cold.

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For some reason Shea and I felt the need to have a chit chat

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before, and it was like, bam.

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so we scheduled this and she told me late yesterday, she also has a book.

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So I got it.

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Read most of it.

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We'll be covering that.

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Let me give you the title real quick.

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Grace Over Grind.

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Is that right?

Shae Bynes: 00:02:09

That's it,

Tim Winders: 00:02:10

Grace Over Grind, which fits so well with what I've been thinking.

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Jesus never hustled.

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Why should we?

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It just, we're gonna, we're going to, we're gonna gel here, but

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before I get too much farther, Shae let's pretend we just met.

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Not instead of, and I ask you or anyone ask you, or you're out and

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about and someone says, what do you do?

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What's your standard answer that you give people?

Shae Bynes: 00:02:32

my standard answer would be that I work with Christ

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following entrepreneurs who desire to do business and partnership with

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God, so they can make a really great impact on the world around them.

Tim Winders: 00:02:42

Okay.

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Do you give that answer.

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to a Gentile or is that in church world or I can throw on an airplane.

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You throw an airplane,

Shae Bynes: 00:02:48

I actually will give that answer anywhere.

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I haven't had a problem with that and it's been interesting because

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sometimes it'll lead to some other follow up questions or whatever.

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I played around with other things, cuz sometimes if I'm in the midst

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of a particular context, I'll play around with it and say something

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else and just, and it's just funks.

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I just love getting to know people.

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But that's pretty much my standard answer.

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And people usually are just like, oh, that's great.

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And

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sometimes

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they have follow up questions, sometimes they don't.

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And I keep it moving.

Tim Winders: 00:03:13

So I'm gonna tag onto something on your LinkedIn profile.

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Your tagline there says, I agitate the world of business for the

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Kingdom of God among other things.

Shae Bynes: 00:03:25

that is correct.

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So tie those together.

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Tie, because some people are right out of the gate if they've hung around me.

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They're not, but the word agitate the world of business.

Tim Winders: 00:03:37

You're a business person, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:03:39

I am.

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I've been in business either on a part-time or a full-time

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basis since what, 1999.

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So even when I was working my corporate job, I had a side business, and then

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when I left my corporate career, I went to full-time entrepreneurship in 2010.

Tim Winders: 00:03:52

And you wouldn't be called just slacker just getting by.

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You barely did.

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Okay.

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In the business world you were hitting home runs over there, correct?

Shae Bynes: 00:04:02

I had a pretty great corporate career.

Shae Bynes: 00:04:04

I really did.

Shae Bynes: 00:04:05

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:04:06

The reason I bring that up and I'm gonna make you give a

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little bit more on that, is that.

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In, I'll use the term church.

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In church world, sometimes there's this thought that sometimes people go hang out

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and use terms like kingdom or Christian and things like that because they

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cannot perform in some of those worlds.

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Y you and I know this is not the case.

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I'm allow you to tau your horn a little bit.

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Yeah, You would not fit that category at all.

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Give just a little glimpse as we get started.

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We're not gonna dive deep into that cuz there's so many other

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things I wanna dive deep in.

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But give a little glimpse of what you quote unquote air quotes here

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for those who aren't seeing it, what you achieved, accomplished,

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your success in that in that world.

Shae Bynes: 00:04:48

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:04:49

And it's actually funny hearing you say that was just so funny to me.

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Cause I was like, really my entrance into focusing on kingdom driven

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entrepreneurship, I didn't, I had to learn what kingdom meant.

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So if that's just a whole funny as all by itself.

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But my background in corporate was in technology, so I got a degree

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in computer science and I started a corporate career as a software

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engineer, then moved up the ranks there.

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So I've been a project manager, program director led global

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university research for some time.

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And so I was there for, at I B M corporation for a little over 10 years.

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I was headed towards my 11th.

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When I had a pretty abrupt disruption from the Lord that led

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to me leaving my corporate career.

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But yeah, I had a lot of different jobs while I was at I B M I loved it.

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Was moving along really well, but I knew I didn't wanna have a long term

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career there cause I wasn't, there was this phrase we used to use Tim in

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the company that was like, oh, people who are executives, they have to bleed

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blue cuz it was big blue, the company.

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And I was like, I'm not willing to bleed blue for these folks.

Shae Bynes: 00:05:48

So I love the work, but I won't be here forever.

Tim Winders: 00:05:52

Yeah.

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When you start understanding our identity and who we are in Christ,

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it's listen, I only bleed one way

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There's only one blood in my book, and It's not yours.

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I will do above and beyond, but I am not selling out.

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So that's interesting.

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I've worked for about nine years at BellSouth,

Shae Bynes: 00:06:08

Oh, that's where my dad worked and retired from.

Tim Winders: 00:06:10

Yeah.

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So I get that and the reason I bring that up and we I'm gonna circle back

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to us defining kingdom here, because that's, yes, that's real big for me.

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Sometimes we throw around words that maybe not everyone's clear on, but I had this

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fascinating situation occur, Shea, when we were at Bible school for a couple years,

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there was a couple business people there.

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So a lot of people were wanting to go full-time ministry.

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That was their desire.

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And truthfully, that was the pecking order.

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Us, us business people, we were down, way down the food chain, which I was

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like going but I don't understand that.

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And so there was a guy that came up to me and he was doing some projects

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with some greenhouses and things.

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We were trying to get 'em injected into some missions,

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fields and things like that.

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And I said

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why don't we get missionaries to do this and all that?

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And he said, Tim, he says, I hate to tell you, we've talked to a

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number of 'em and they're just lazy.

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They don't wanna do work.

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And the reason I bring that up here is you would definitely be considered in my book.

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I've talked to you a few times, I've studied you now over the last

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24 hours getting ready for this.

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You would be high performer, correct?

Tim Winders: 00:07:16

That's, we're not like joking if we call you high performer, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:07:20

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:07:20

That was definitely, and I used to be pretty achievement achievement

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oriented and performance driven.

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So yes, you could definitely define me that way.

Shae Bynes: 00:07:27

Yes, I've learned how to submit that in, but yes.

Tim Winders: 00:07:31

So what we do here is we talk about redefining success.

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How did you define success in that world?

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And then we're gonna talk, we're gonna move to kingdom

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here in just a little while.

Shae Bynes: 00:07:40

yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:07:40

So I would say that I had like my list of goals.

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So take me back to after my, my college.

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So in my twenties, up to my late twenties, early thirties

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before I really transitioned.

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I would say success to me was,

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Make a million by the time I'm 40 have a particular type of house.

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Have some side business activity, like some real estate, have this great family

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dynamic, healthy kids and marriage.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:09

That's pro I would've definitely defined it by things and by

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like manifestations of success.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:16

Like the, it's like I would've defined like fruitfulness from like things.

Tim Winders: 00:08:20

Were you a Christ follower at that time or did you

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have interaction with Christ?

Shae Bynes: 00:08:26

I, I don't even recall ever not being in church.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:28

So I was raised in a church going family.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:31

My dad was an elder in the church.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:33

My mom was a volunteer in the church regularly, so I was always in church.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:37

But basically, I would say I knew a lot of Bible stories.

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I knew Jesus loved me.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:43

I had no concept of the Holy Spirit in my life whatsoever.

Shae Bynes: 00:08:47

And then when I was in college and I chose my own church, then I went to a church

Shae Bynes: 00:08:51

that was, I learned about the Holy Spirit, but it was super prosperity focused.

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And so mostly, so I would hear, learn about faith from that perspective.

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And then I might see a move of the spirit here or there, but it would only be in

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the context of something really awesome that happened, like someone was healed at

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the front, at the altar, at shirt, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:09:08

But I just didn't, I just didn't have any sense of just like the leading,

Shae Bynes: 00:09:12

the guidance, the goodness of just that inflowing spirit, holy Spirit in my life.

Shae Bynes: 00:09:18

I did not have that until I just had these encounters with God.

Tim Winders: 00:09:22

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the prosperity message gospel.

Shae Bynes: 00:09:26

We would do money coming to me.

Tim Winders: 00:09:29

in.

Tim Winders: 00:09:29

Hi.

Tim Winders: 00:09:29

I'm on

Shae Bynes: 00:09:30

that was my co those one, my college years.

Tim Winders: 00:09:32

I after I found Jesus, he found me.

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He was pursuing me all along.

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I just finally relented or, accepted.

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I was full on gonna be making me some money.

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So the Prosperity Gospel fit really well into

Shae Bynes: 00:09:45

same.

Tim Winders: 00:09:46

And listen, just, I wanna say this right up front as a disclaimer.

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I think most of the first world Americanized church is

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a prosperity gospel church.

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We'll get, we may get into that later.

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And I know A lot of people now are their heads are spinning,

Tim Winders: 00:09:57

they're spitting out green stuff.

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But I'm telling you they're all about comfort.

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They're all about their stuff and God's formula.

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But it.

Tim Winders: 00:10:03

sounds like you compartmentalized a little bit.

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You had your spiritual life, you had your business, you had your success.

Tim Winders: 00:10:09

How did that work out for you and at what point did you start

Tim Winders: 00:10:13

making that change, that shift?

Shae Bynes: 00:10:14

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:15

So from my perspective then it was working at just fine because

Shae Bynes: 00:10:18

I was pretty achievement oriented.

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Am like a goal.

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I go after it, I get it.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:21

That was just the way I was, was a great student, got a great paying

Shae Bynes: 00:10:24

job right outta college, got married right outta college, bought a house.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:27

We did all of that so in my mind in that time, it was working for me, at least from

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my very limited perspective at that time.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:36

The shift happened for me.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:38

It was funny.

Shae Bynes: 00:10:39

I had a couple shifts.

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The first massive shift for me is when I got pregnant with my first child.

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So we had been married for nine months, and so I was still right

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outta college, that got graduated, got married, started the job.

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So nine months into our marriage, I got pregnant with my first child,

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which was well before my, that was the first time that I experienced

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something that I did not plan.

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Like I, I planned to have a child like three or four to five

Shae Bynes: 00:11:02

years into our marriage, not nine months into our marriage.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:06

So that was the first thing where it was like, oh, snap.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:09

Like I, I don't have the control that I thought and hold on, I

Shae Bynes: 00:11:13

don't even know how to do this.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:14

I'm the youngest of three I don't even know how to be a mom.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:17

So my first like inclination towards God, help be with me please, and not

Shae Bynes: 00:11:25

just me holler at you, from time to time and just know that you love me

Shae Bynes: 00:11:29

came as a mom, a young mom, but that still, if I was still compartmentalized.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:33

So it was still that with my parenting and certainly with my marriage, but my

Shae Bynes: 00:11:37

work, my professional life, it wasn't that I was operating against him or didn't

Shae Bynes: 00:11:41

want him involved, I just didn't have a concept that he desired to be involved.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:47

So it really was a more of ignorance than, Me having a concern or not

Shae Bynes: 00:11:52

avoiding something I just didn't know.

Shae Bynes: 00:11:54

But when you grow up with not really knowing the Holy Spirit's role

Shae Bynes: 00:11:57

in your life, it's very easy to compartmentalize and to not think

Shae Bynes: 00:12:01

that he cares about that stuff.

Tim Winders: 00:12:02

Our culture, the, first world Greco whatever you wanna call it,

Tim Winders: 00:12:06

we are all about com, compartmentalizing everything, our hobbies, our marriage,

Tim Winders: 00:12:10

our even sometimes children and success and church and all that.

Tim Winders: 00:12:14

We just compartmentalize.

Tim Winders: 00:12:16

And what that does I think it puts God in a different place than in, in all.

Tim Winders: 00:12:24

Honesty.

Tim Winders: 00:12:24

We, some of us will eventually find out.

Tim Winders: 00:12:26

I think everybody will, that's not the way we should live.

Tim Winders: 00:12:30

So at some point you started shifting into this kingdom mindset.

Tim Winders: 00:12:35

You'll hear me use the term Babylon.

Tim Winders: 00:12:37

To me there's Babylon or the world system and then there's the kingdom.

Tim Winders: 00:12:42

When was that?

Tim Winders: 00:12:43

I know some things happened in 2012 and different things like that, but

Tim Winders: 00:12:46

when was that, and let's kinda walk through some of the events that

Tim Winders: 00:12:50

forced you to redefine what that air quotes again, success meant for you.

Shae Bynes: 00:12:54

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:12:55

So this happened in a couple layers.

Shae Bynes: 00:12:56

So the first layer of that happened in 2009 when I was doing what I did in

Shae Bynes: 00:13:02

January of every year, which was create my own goals, create my own plans,

Shae Bynes: 00:13:05

and then ask the Lord to bless them.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:06

That was pretty much my thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:07

And so I would do that every January and this particular January for the first

Shae Bynes: 00:13:11

time, I heard from the Lord back, like I was talking to him, asking him to bless

Shae Bynes: 00:13:15

my stuff, and then I heard from him for the first time, and it was, you're

Shae Bynes: 00:13:20

gonna leave this job by June of 2010.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:22

And I knew that was God, because you, I'm a strategist and a planner.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:26

That wasn't my plan, that wasn't my thought.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:27

So I was like, that's a different thought.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:29

I think that was God.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:31

So I write that down in my, along with all of my plans.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:34

I wrote down, I'm gonna leave this job by June of 2010.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:38

And then I did what any strategist and planner does.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:40

I created a list of what all the wisdom that I would need to apply and

Shae Bynes: 00:13:44

the things I would need to accomplish in order to lead my corporate job.

Shae Bynes: 00:13:48

And it was wise advice if I said, give to anybody, like wise

Shae Bynes: 00:13:50

things to have in order, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:13:52

So thankfully my husband has a gift of faith, and so even though it made zero

Shae Bynes: 00:13:56

practical sense at all for me to be even thinking about leaving my job at June

Shae Bynes: 00:14:00

of 2010, my husband's Hey, if that's what the Lord's doing, let's do it.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:04

Even though it made no sense.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:05

So I go throughout that year and I was getting these nudges from the Holy Spirit.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:09

This was all a kind of a new kind of experience for me.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:11

So it was just like, I'm getting these nudges, and I remember getting so

Shae Bynes: 00:14:15

uncomfortable that I started praying and asking the guy just have them lay me off.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:20

People are getting laid off left and right.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:21

They're getting a year's worth of, severance pay.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:23

They're getting a year's worth of health insurance.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:25

They're upset that they're getting fi, they're getting

Shae Bynes: 00:14:28

laid off, but I'd be delighted.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:29

So let them lay me off.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:31

And I'm in the midst of that and I got a promotion.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:34

People are getting laid off and I got promoted.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:40

And I'm like, okay, so that's not gonna work.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:43

So I go with all this discomfort, I go right into the year 2010.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:46

I'm at a business conference.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:47

It's April, 2010.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:49

I'm at this business conference, Tim, and I'm ironing my clothes, getting

Shae Bynes: 00:14:51

ready to go to the last session.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:53

And I heard from God, like I had never ever heard from God before, and I have

Shae Bynes: 00:14:56

not heard from him like this since.

Shae Bynes: 00:14:57

And it was go, it was like, it shook me.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:00

It wasn't like I heard a loud, booming voice, but I might as well have

Shae Bynes: 00:15:03

because it was like I ca captured it all, and it was sh it like it

Shae Bynes: 00:15:07

shook me and I knew it was God.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:09

I knew I didn't know where I was going, but I knew where I was supposed to go

Shae Bynes: 00:15:12

from cuz he had already been talking to me and nudging me all for several months.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:17

So I called my husband right away and I was like, babe, I gotta I gotta go.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:21

I gotta go.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:21

God says God side for me to go.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:23

Now, this was at a reverential fear of the Lord at this point.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:25

Okay?

Shae Bynes: 00:15:26

And so I go back home from Orlando from this conference.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:28

I called my boss the next Monday, and I'm like, look, I don't know how to tell you

Shae Bynes: 00:15:31

this, but I gotta get my 30 days notice.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:32

He's like, where are you going?

Shae Bynes: 00:15:33

I'm like, I don't know.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:34

He's to do what?

Shae Bynes: 00:15:34

I'm like, I don't know.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:35

And it's okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:36

And 30 days later, sure enough, I left that job and my

Shae Bynes: 00:15:39

last day was May 31st, 2010.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:44

I didn't even make that connection, by the way, until my months later.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:46

I sure enough left.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:47

So that was the first connection point.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:49

He disrupted me in a really kind of radical way in that way.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:52

And I was shook and had a reverential fear.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:54

I left because then I left and then I went into hustle and grind

Shae Bynes: 00:15:57

mode cuz now God's got me out here.

Shae Bynes: 00:15:58

Now I gotta make it happen.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:00

So the real estate business that I was doing on the side, now I'm like,

Shae Bynes: 00:16:03

I'm going all in, doing all the hours, trying to make all the things

Shae Bynes: 00:16:06

happen in this real estate business.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:07

Not even talking to the Lord about like, why did I read this job?

Shae Bynes: 00:16:10

What do you have on your heart concerning?

Shae Bynes: 00:16:11

It was such a disconnect for me.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:13

So I go in trying to make all the things happen and Tim, I made

Shae Bynes: 00:16:17

this much progress for those who are listening and not watching.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:19

My fingers are really close together.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:21

I made very little progress and I knew what I was doing.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:24

And so I heard now another voice, but this time it wasn't as loud.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:28

It was a stat soft, still small voice that we hear about of the Holy Spirit.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:31

And it was, are you done yet?

Shae Bynes: 00:16:34

And I was like, yeah, I'm done.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:37

And so that was my second gear shift and I'm like, okay, God,

Shae Bynes: 00:16:41

clearly you have interest in what I'm doing in a way that I didn't.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:45

Realize, and so maybe I should start to pay attention to what you've got on

Shae Bynes: 00:16:49

your mind and your heart concerning me.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:50

And so that was my first shift into really allowing him into the

Shae Bynes: 00:16:55

space of my professional life.

Shae Bynes: 00:16:56

I, he was very much present in my wife and mom aspect of life.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:01

Am I going to church on Sunday?

Shae Bynes: 00:17:03

But I, but this part, this was new.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:06

This was really new.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:07

And so that was the beginning shift.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:09

There's more shifts.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:09

I don't know if you wanna explore that more, but I can go to the

Shae Bynes: 00:17:11

next gear that you wanna move it to, the next gear, the 2012 gear

Shae Bynes: 00:17:14

that you referred to, or you wanna

Tim Winders: 00:17:15

Yeah I wanna pause for just a second because there's

Tim Winders: 00:17:18

something that I've had theories about that I don't know how to prove.

Tim Winders: 00:17:24

So it's just through conversations like this, if you and I would've

Tim Winders: 00:17:30

gotten together, let's call it pre moving over into the kingdom a

Tim Winders: 00:17:36

hundred percent or at least as high a percentage as we believe we need to be.

Tim Winders: 00:17:41

Before then we would've gotten together.

Tim Winders: 00:17:43

And with the skills that I've got, skills you've got bringing other people in we

Tim Winders: 00:17:46

could have created some jamming, jamming plans and operations, stuff like that.

Tim Winders: 00:17:50

And sounds like we bring your husband in and my wife in and

Tim Winders: 00:17:53

we've got us a mega operation.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:56

that's right.

Shae Bynes: 00:17:56

Because all this cool stuff in real estate.

Tim Winders: 00:17:58

yeah, we did.

Tim Winders: 00:17:59

Yeah, we did.

Tim Winders: 00:18:00

We did some real estate too.

Tim Winders: 00:18:01

Let's don't go

Shae Bynes: 00:18:02

did.

Tim Winders: 00:18:02

road.

Tim Winders: 00:18:03

and I think that we would've, the plans would've worked.

Tim Winders: 00:18:07

We would've put it in place.

Tim Winders: 00:18:09

But once, once you step over into the realm that is we'll

Tim Winders: 00:18:18

talk Kingdom in just a moment.

Shae Bynes: 00:18:19

Yes.

Tim Winders: 00:18:20

I think everything changes and those things.

Tim Winders: 00:18:24

I'm not gonna say they don't work.

Tim Winders: 00:18:25

That's not the right way of saying it.

Tim Winders: 00:18:27

They don't work the same way.

Tim Winders: 00:18:29

They don't work with our hands.

Tim Winders: 00:18:31

They don't

Tim Winders: 00:18:31

I'm trying to say a few things and then I'm gonna put a question mark at

Tim Winders: 00:18:34

the end and let you talk to, but to me it's once you get to a certain place,

Tim Winders: 00:18:38

you can't go back to the way we used to be, even though sometimes we'd like to.

Tim Winders: 00:18:43

What do you now what?

Tim Winders: 00:18:45

Say you.

Shae Bynes: 00:18:45

I, listen, this is what I, this is how I talk about it.

Shae Bynes: 00:18:48

I talk about being like having water up to your ankles, being ankle

Shae Bynes: 00:18:52

deep, versus being knee deep, versus being waist deep, versus being neck

Shae Bynes: 00:18:56

deep versus being over your head.

Shae Bynes: 00:18:57

And I think you can, when you're ankle deep, you can just kinda hump in and out.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:01

I'm playing, and I've spent some time ankle deep, but once that water went above

Shae Bynes: 00:19:05

my ankles, there was no turning back.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:10

There was no, even if I didn't understand what was ahead, I didn't

Shae Bynes: 00:19:14

know what this was going to look like.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:17

There was enough for me to know that this is my new reality, this is a

Shae Bynes: 00:19:22

higher reality, this is my reality.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:24

And so even though I don't understand fully and I don't know where

Shae Bynes: 00:19:28

I'm headed, I can't turn back.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:30

I have to keep moving forward.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:32

And I think once you're, once that water's a little bit, just metaphorically, a

Shae Bynes: 00:19:36

little bit above your ankles, like that's where the point where it's no, I can't,

Shae Bynes: 00:19:38

there's no, I can't hop back on the short.

Shae Bynes: 00:19:40

Like I gotta keep going.

Tim Winders: 00:19:42

I always wondered if it's j if it has a lot to do, if not

Tim Winders: 00:19:46

a hundred percent to do with identity.

Tim Winders: 00:19:49

I thought I was a pretty bright guy.

Tim Winders: 00:19:54

The older, more mature I get, I think less and less.

Tim Winders: 00:19:57

I'm not that bright.

Tim Winders: 00:19:58

And I'm not saying that in any kind of false humility or anything.

Tim Winders: 00:20:00

I do think I've got skills and talent, but I just am recognizing I'm not

Tim Winders: 00:20:04

that good even though I'm pretty good.

Tim Winders: 00:20:08

And so I do wonder if part of that journey of drawing near this is

Tim Winders: 00:20:14

what I joke about all the time is less of Tim and more of him.

Tim Winders: 00:20:17

You may have heard me say that.

Shae Bynes: 00:20:18

I like that.

Tim Winders: 00:20:19

and part of it is getting my arrogance confidence, getting my

Tim Winders: 00:20:23

identity changed from one to the other.

Tim Winders: 00:20:26

What are your thoughts when someone says identity, because that's a big

Tim Winders: 00:20:29

word in the culture that we're in.

Shae Bynes: 00:20:31

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:20:31

That, that is a big word, but.

Shae Bynes: 00:20:33

To me, identity is everything because I really, I'll say identity is everything

Shae Bynes: 00:20:37

and intimacy with God is everything.

Shae Bynes: 00:20:39

So intimacy with God, with everything is everything because it reveals

Shae Bynes: 00:20:42

identity, it roots you, an identity and everything grows from there, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:20:46

So when I think about the journey of and we haven't moved to that third leg

Shae Bynes: 00:20:50

yet, it was the growing intimacy with God that then led to stronger rooted

Shae Bynes: 00:20:56

identity in God that then everything else blossoms from, and to this day, and so

Shae Bynes: 00:21:03

to me, that identity piece is everything because that's the orientation in which we

Shae Bynes: 00:21:07

engage ourselves and the world around us.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:09

And so it's how we think about God, how we think God thinks about us, how

Shae Bynes: 00:21:12

we engage the world around us, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:21:14

And to me, it's super important and I can track I could tell a whole identity story.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:20

Of various aspects of my kingdom identity that God like was cultivating in me

Shae Bynes: 00:21:24

understanding and revelation step by step.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:27

He didn't blow it all at one time.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:29

He was focusing on one aspect of another aspect and another aspect.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:33

It's like he build me in building blocks and it's like I, my story traject

Shae Bynes: 00:21:37

around along that identity route.

Shae Bynes: 00:21:39

Really?

Tim Winders: 00:21:40

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:21:40

So let's jump into the time that the, the kingdom thing started coming in, but

Tim Winders: 00:21:45

I want to tell you I'd like to hit this fairly quickly if we could, because I've

Tim Winders: 00:21:50

got, about five topics I want you and I to have at least a little conversation on.

Tim Winders: 00:21:54

So anyway, I've got a bunch of stuff here.

Tim Winders: 00:21:56

This is not gonna be a two hour podcast, just So y'all know,

Shae Bynes: 00:22:00

So the third step, a bridge story is the abridge story is at this

Shae Bynes: 00:22:03

point, after the second year, I started paying attention to the Lord as it

Shae Bynes: 00:22:06

related to what I was doing in business.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:08

Fast forward into 20 12, 1 of my real estate buddies said, Hey, I

Shae Bynes: 00:22:11

met this woman who I felt like I was supposed to connect you with.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:14

He connected me to her.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:15

She said, I have this client that I feel like I'm supposed to connect you with.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:17

She connected me with her and we hopped on the phone March of 2012.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:21

I knew instantaneously this was like a God connection.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:24

Six to eight weeks after we met, I said to her, Hey, I think we

Shae Bynes: 00:22:26

met for a really specific reason.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:28

She said, I think the same.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:29

She was in South Carolina.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:30

I'm in Florida.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:31

But we prayed about it, came back in a week, prayed about it, came back in

Shae Bynes: 00:22:33

a week, prayed again, and came back.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:35

And that third time she says, God gave me these words.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:37

I put 'em in my journal.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:38

I have no idea what they're about, what it's for.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:40

This had happened months prior to her meeting me and she said,

Shae Bynes: 00:22:43

the words are kingdom driven, entrepreneur, and what flew outta my

Shae Bynes: 00:22:46

mouth, Tim was that's a community.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:47

It's a movement and it starts with a book.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:48

And I didn't even know what a kingdom driven entrepreneur was.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:51

I was a Christian who happened to be a business owner who operated

Shae Bynes: 00:22:54

integrity and the principles of the Bible as best to my ability.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:57

But I didn't know what a kingdom driven entrepreneur was.

Shae Bynes: 00:22:59

And so from there, that point in that March, 2012, that next six

Shae Bynes: 00:23:03

months was an exploration of what is, what are you talking about Lord?

Shae Bynes: 00:23:07

What does this look like?

Shae Bynes: 00:23:07

What does this mean?

Shae Bynes: 00:23:08

How in the world are we writing a book that makes no sense,

Shae Bynes: 00:23:10

but okay Lord, we'll do that.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:11

And it was that over that six months.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:13

So my beginnings of getting an orientation of what it means, not only

Shae Bynes: 00:23:17

what the kingdom of God means, but what does it mean to be kingdom driven?

Shae Bynes: 00:23:21

The beginnings of that was happening then in the process of launching a

Shae Bynes: 00:23:27

community to movement by that name, which is one of those only God stories.

Tim Winders: 00:23:32

Yeah,

Shae Bynes: 00:23:32

Cuz I w I wasn't the guru coming in with 10,000 of expert

Shae Bynes: 00:23:35

expertise at 10,000 hours of expertise to come show people the way I was

Shae Bynes: 00:23:39

learning, literally as I was going.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:42

And if people wanted to pay attention they could.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:44

And they were, cuz we were all growing.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:46

Cuz a lot of, cuz you couldn't Google Kingdom entrepreneur in

Shae Bynes: 00:23:49

2012 and find something that's not Now it's a popular conversation.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:53

In 2012, it was not a popular conversation.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:56

Christian entrepreneur was a co, was a good conversation.

Shae Bynes: 00:23:59

Faith in work, marketplace, ministry, these terms, these were all terms, but

Shae Bynes: 00:24:03

Kingdom Entrepreneur was not like a thing people were talking about, not

Shae Bynes: 00:24:07

publicly in forums that were platforms and stuff that you could learn from.

Shae Bynes: 00:24:10

And so it was really just sitting with the Lord and with one another.

Shae Bynes: 00:24:13

With Antonina, my co-founder said, what in the world are we doing?

Shae Bynes: 00:24:16

What in the heavens is going on here and what are we doing?

Shae Bynes: 00:24:19

But that was the beginning of the shift for me was Then

Tim Winders: 00:24:22

Alright, so I may come back to that, but I wanna

Tim Winders: 00:24:24

get some definitions out of

Shae Bynes: 00:24:26

you got it.

Shae Bynes: 00:24:27

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:24:27

Tell me, you say kingdom, because you get around, you get

Tim Winders: 00:24:34

outside of church people and they have no idea what we're talking about.

Tim Winders: 00:24:38

Usually you get around church people, and I joked with people one time I

Tim Winders: 00:24:42

went to a church and the guy, the pastor said, we're a Kingdom church.

Tim Winders: 00:24:46

And I would say, what does that mean?

Tim Winders: 00:24:47

He goes, we're a Kingdom church.

Tim Winders: 00:24:49

And I went, Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:24:50

I get it but I can you gimme a little more?

Tim Winders: 00:24:52

What does that mean?

Tim Winders: 00:24:54

And he goes we're kingdom and the rest of 'em aren't.

Tim Winders: 00:24:56

I'm going, Oh, I don't know.

Tim Winders: 00:24:58

I need a little bit more than that.

Tim Winders: 00:24:59

So gived me your definition, and actually I love that you've got a

Tim Winders: 00:25:02

preview to the guidebook in the back of, I've got my Kindle here is where

Tim Winders: 00:25:07

I read your book, that you got a preview and you actually give some of

Tim Winders: 00:25:10

these, but I wanna hear it from you.

Tim Winders: 00:25:11

What,

Shae Bynes: 00:25:11

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:25:12

and I'm gonna ask about Driven and Entrepreneur

Tim Winders: 00:25:14

because the word driven has recently popped up in some things I'm doing.

Tim Winders: 00:25:17

So tell me Kingdom, what is that?

Tim Winders: 00:25:19

What is that to you?

Shae Bynes: 00:25:21

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:21

So I'm talking about the government of God, the realm of heaven.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:25

It's the, it is not a democracy.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:29

It's like this is the territory of God and it has a king, and the king

Shae Bynes: 00:25:33

is Jesus, and it's the king's way.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:36

It's his mind, his heart, his way, and that's it.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:39

So when I think about the kingdom it's simple as that.

Shae Bynes: 00:25:41

And I, I root myself in Matthew 6 33 of seeking first the kingdom of God

Shae Bynes: 00:25:45

and his righteousness, knowing that all things you know are gonna be added.

Tim Winders: 00:25:48

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:25:49

this powerful scripture for me that that is really almost a foundational

Tim Winders: 00:25:53

scripture for me because what I recognized in my life is that I kept chasing

Tim Winders: 00:25:57

the last part of that verse to things representing food, clothing, and shelter.

Tim Winders: 00:26:01

Instead of seeking first his kingdom and his righteousness, and I had to do a study

Tim Winders: 00:26:05

on kingdom does the kingdom come after us or do we have to go after the kingdom?

Shae Bynes: 00:26:11

I was like, the kingdom is ever advancing till it's return.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:14

It's like it is here and ever increasing.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:17

And so I'm like, we get to participate in what God's already doing.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:22

We co-labor with Christ to see the advancement of the kingdom.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:27

But to me, I'm like, if I didn't participate, the kingdom

Shae Bynes: 00:26:29

of God is still advancing.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:30

If Shae Bynes is not participating, it's still advancing cuz the Bible said so

Tim Winders: 00:26:34

whether you're in or not.

Tim Winders: 00:26:35

so

Shae Bynes: 00:26:35

whether I'm in or not.

Tim Winders: 00:26:36

tell me about the word driven.

Tim Winders: 00:26:37

Give me

Shae Bynes: 00:26:38

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:26:38

cause.

Tim Winders: 00:26:39

I've, I recently did, in fact there are a few episodes back I did Faith Driven

Tim Winders: 00:26:45

Leader and I actually had some Christians gimme some pushback on that word driven.

Shae Bynes: 00:26:50

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:26:50

enough, some people are uncomfortable with it.

Tim Winders: 00:26:52

So tell me about the word driven.

Tim Winders: 00:26:54

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:26:54

I was like, what do you mean?

Tim Winders: 00:26:55

They go, That sounds too aggressive.

Tim Winders: 00:26:57

I'm going, yeah,

Shae Bynes: 00:26:58

is very interesting to

Tim Winders: 00:27:00

I know,

Shae Bynes: 00:27:00

that feedback.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:02

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:02

So it has two primary definitions.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:05

And so one of them is motivated.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:07

So what's motivating you, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:27:10

And the other is propelled.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:11

And I like this propelled forward.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:13

And so when it was kingdom driven entrepreneur, so we're not gonna define

Shae Bynes: 00:27:18

entrepreneur here, but what's what I'm saying is that your entrepreneurial

Shae Bynes: 00:27:21

endeavors, those entrepreneurial endeavors are motivated by seeing an

Shae Bynes: 00:27:26

increase of the kingdom of God and they're propelled forward by that truth.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:33

Matthew 6 33, seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness,

Shae Bynes: 00:27:37

knowing all things will be added.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:38

So it changes your entire orientation.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:40

You're seeking first.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:42

The kingdom.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:42

You're seeking first the kingdom in his righteousness.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:45

All things are added even in the context Yes.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:47

Of your business as well.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:49

And so with that's what that means.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:50

And that's changed the business game for me because business can be

Shae Bynes: 00:27:53

led by, driven by a lot of things.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:55

You could be driven by profits, you could be driven by your emotions.

Shae Bynes: 00:27:59

Bad idea.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:00

You can be Dr, you can be driven by whatever your feelings, your whatever.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:05

But it's no, I'm gonna be led and empowered by the Holy Spirit

Shae Bynes: 00:28:09

and be motivated and propelled forward by the kingdom of God.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:14

That's a different, that's a different life.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:15

That's a different game.

Tim Winders: 00:28:16

I think You could be driven by fear.

Tim Winders: 00:28:18

You could be driven

Shae Bynes: 00:28:18

You driven by fear.

Tim Winders: 00:28:19

what Mama thinks is best for you.

Tim Winders: 00:28:21

You better do what Mama said.

Tim Winders: 00:28:22

It's Ooh, I don't know what other people think about you.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:25

Yes, Pride driven by pride and ambition and all the things.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:28

You could be driven by a lot of things.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:29

So the word driven in and of itself isn't the bad word.

Shae Bynes: 00:28:33

It's just but what?

Shae Bynes: 00:28:34

What's the word that's before the what is driving you?

Shae Bynes: 00:28:37

That's what matters.

Tim Winders: 00:28:38

let's don't, let's don't dive too much into it, but on the

Tim Winders: 00:28:41

word, entrepreneur is thrown around quite a bit in our culture also.

Tim Winders: 00:28:47

And at times, sometimes I'm, I can be a little snarky.

Tim Winders: 00:28:50

This is, I'm just giving a little I should have a little snarky button come up here.

Tim Winders: 00:28:54

At times, the word entrepreneur to me, because I am one of those

Tim Winders: 00:28:57

also, is just someone who can't stay focused on one thing very long.

Tim Winders: 00:29:01

So they're bouncing around, jumping over, trying to find something they

Tim Winders: 00:29:03

could do and make some quick money.

Tim Winders: 00:29:05

So

Shae Bynes: 00:29:06

That sound like a hustler to me.

Tim Winders: 00:29:09

why don't you tell us the real when y'all tie those

Tim Winders: 00:29:11

together there, give me, gimme just a flavor for entrepreneur

Shae Bynes: 00:29:15

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:15

I will from my context, cuz some people also say there's entrepreneur and there's

Shae Bynes: 00:29:19

business owner and they separate the two.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:21

I don't get into that.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:22

To me, if you are offering a product and a service in the marketplace and

Shae Bynes: 00:29:27

you're bringing value in, in exchange, you receive finances for that, you

Shae Bynes: 00:29:31

are settling, marketing, selling a product service in the marketplace.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:35

That's it to me.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:36

You are building a business now, whether there's definitely differences

Shae Bynes: 00:29:39

between how someone shows up in terms of an entrepreneur who's I build

Shae Bynes: 00:29:43

something with the purpose of selling it to move on to the next thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:46

But that to me, like that's a serial entrepreneur.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:48

But I could be an entrepreneur and stay in a business for 20 years

Shae Bynes: 00:29:51

and I not consider and not be like, oh, I'm not an entrepreneur just

Shae Bynes: 00:29:54

because I'm here for 20 years.

Shae Bynes: 00:29:56

But if I'm building something, building team and all of those things, I don't

Shae Bynes: 00:29:59

consider that any less of being an entrepreneur than, but some people would.

Tim Winders: 00:30:03

I think it's one of these words, kinda like a number of things

Tim Winders: 00:30:07

that can mean a lot to different people and it's possibly been watered down.

Tim Winders: 00:30:12

I love.

Tim Winders: 00:30:12

Of how you tie it together with Kingdom and Driven,

Tim Winders: 00:30:15

What it does see, to me, an entrepreneur is someone who's, their

Tim Winders: 00:30:19

idea person, they're visionary.

Tim Winders: 00:30:21

They can start things fairly quickly.

Tim Winders: 00:30:23

Some, sometimes we need to start 'em slower if we listen to the Lord properly,

Tim Winders: 00:30:27

but that's a whole nother topic.

Shae Bynes: 00:30:29

yes,

Tim Winders: 00:30:29

And they're ones that are at the forefront of doing things.

Tim Winders: 00:30:34

They're leading because they're taking action.

Tim Winders: 00:30:38

And I think that maybe taking action part is what I see that separates

Tim Winders: 00:30:42

out, is like kingdom driven people that just sit around and wait for

Tim Winders: 00:30:46

somebody else to do something.

Tim Winders: 00:30:47

Then I'll jump on board with them.

Tim Winders: 00:30:48

No, we're talking entrepreneurs.

Tim Winders: 00:30:50

They're, these people are gonna, they're gonna go after it.

Shae Bynes: 00:30:53

You have an, you have initiative, you have another level

Shae Bynes: 00:30:55

of initiative to go after and create the thing that's on your heart.

Shae Bynes: 00:30:58

Totally.

Shae Bynes: 00:30:59

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:30:59

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:31:00

All right.

Tim Winders: 00:31:00

I like that.

Tim Winders: 00:31:00

All right, so kingdom driven entrepreneur came to be 2012, and

Tim Winders: 00:31:07

now we could start filling in some of the other parts of the story.

Tim Winders: 00:31:09

Before I start peppering you with these questions that I've got about, let

Tim Winders: 00:31:14

me go ahead and give you a glimpse.

Tim Winders: 00:31:15

I'm gonna ask you about time.

Tim Winders: 00:31:16

I'm gonna ask you about money.

Tim Winders: 00:31:17

I'm gonna ask you about confidence versus humility.

Tim Winders: 00:31:20

I'm gonna ask about having control and where we put our trust is just some

Tim Winders: 00:31:23

of the stuff that came to my mind.

Tim Winders: 00:31:25

I don't even know if we're gonna

Shae Bynes: 00:31:26

for all of it.

Tim Winders: 00:31:27

So my next question, because I think this is where the story goes, is

Tim Winders: 00:31:31

that once we start dipping our toes into that realm that we call God's kingdom,

Shae Bynes: 00:31:37

Yes.

Tim Winders: 00:31:38

somewhere along the way we start recognizing that it's got

Tim Winders: 00:31:41

different rules, it operates differently, and one of the first things that we

Tim Winders: 00:31:46

notice, Is our greed glands can start getting restrictive to us because

Tim Winders: 00:31:54

we're sitting here thinking, I need to make me some money to pay my bills.

Tim Winders: 00:31:59

But I don't think that's what I'm supposed to be thinking about

Tim Winders: 00:32:01

that much in the kingdom or what.

Tim Winders: 00:32:03

So let's just go ahead and dive in the deep end.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:06

Okay.

Tim Winders: 00:32:06

And I want, and I'm gonna ask you a very personal question.

Tim Winders: 00:32:09

You tell

Shae Bynes: 00:32:09

Sure.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:10

I'm here for

Tim Winders: 00:32:10

with, what was going on with your personal finances

Tim Winders: 00:32:14

and with money coming in for you.

Tim Winders: 00:32:16

I actually think I read somewhere where you almost went to a foreclosure.

Tim Winders: 00:32:19

we were kicked out of a 6,000 square foot house when I knew more about

Shae Bynes: 00:32:23

a 6,000 square.

Tim Winders: 00:32:24

more about real estate than most people know and good gracious so you

Tim Winders: 00:32:27

step into kingdom life is great, right?

Tim Winders: 00:32:29

That's what the prosperity God, you're into God's kingdom.

Tim Winders: 00:32:31

So life is good.

Tim Winders: 00:32:32

Money's flowing in your bank account's full.

Tim Winders: 00:32:34

Talk to me about that, Shay.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:36

Oh my gosh.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:37

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:37

So when I left my corporate career, so remember we were, so we had a

Shae Bynes: 00:32:42

real estate business, but it was like residential cash flowing property.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:45

So like a few hundred dollars, a month per property.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:47

Not like a lot.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:48

But we had certainly had equity.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:50

But I was leaving a $96,000 job.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:53

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:54

When I left, I had a relatively small pension as well as a 401k.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:58

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:32:59

Which was intentionally to not to be touched, that wasn't

Shae Bynes: 00:33:01

my intention to touch it.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:02

But anyway so we leave, I go into the business full-time

Shae Bynes: 00:33:06

and on the real estate side.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:08

But then remember relatively quickly after that, I was in that

Shae Bynes: 00:33:12

for two years and so we were fine.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:13

We were fine.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:14

But then when the whole assignment for kingdom driven entrepreneur came

Shae Bynes: 00:33:18

up, I was trying to do all the things.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:22

And what happened was the Lord, one by one was instructing me

Shae Bynes: 00:33:26

to let go of certain things.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:28

And so I was holding onto one last thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:30

I had this, so I had stopped doing all the active stuff on the real estate side.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:33

I was stopped consulting, I stopped taking consulting

Shae Bynes: 00:33:35

clients, but I had one thing left.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:38

I was coaching the real estate investing clients of a friend of mine who had a

Shae Bynes: 00:33:43

huge real estate investing business.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:45

And all I had, I didn't have to market it.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:46

All I had to do was show up and coach your students.

Shae Bynes: 00:33:49

And when I said yes and it was almost like immediately when I looked at

Shae Bynes: 00:33:53

that as my source now, because I let go of all of those other things

Shae Bynes: 00:33:58

within weeks, less than a month.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:02

I get an email from her that's just I just had a meeting with my coach.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:05

We were lucky thinking I have the business and da, and I'm thinking, I

Shae Bynes: 00:34:06

don't need as many coaches anymore.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:08

And it's, not personal, I think I'm just gonna work with, the

Shae Bynes: 00:34:11

other guy now, which was a smart decision between the two of us.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:14

And I read that and everything in me wanted to be like the devil is, and I

Shae Bynes: 00:34:18

couldn't even fix my lips to say, to act like this was something against me.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:23

When I heard the Holy Spirit said, that was me, it was like, no, it's

Shae Bynes: 00:34:26

like I heard the Lord say that was me.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:29

Go focus on kingdom driven entrepreneur.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:32

And so from that kingdom driven, l C was making nothing in the beginning

Shae Bynes: 00:34:36

because we didn't, first of all, we didn't know what we were doing.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:39

We had a couple thousand people show up at a Facebook group.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:41

Were like, okay, Lord.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:41

Now what?

Shae Bynes: 00:34:42

How, what's the product?

Shae Bynes: 00:34:43

What's the service?

Shae Bynes: 00:34:44

How are we showing up?

Shae Bynes: 00:34:45

All we had was the book.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:46

We gave that away for free in the beginning.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:47

That's how we got the people there.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:48

Then we were like selling the book, but it was like, okay, it's a book.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:52

We didn't know what our, we didn't have a monetization strategy,

Shae Bynes: 00:34:54

a business model, and nothing.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:56

For months.

Shae Bynes: 00:34:58

So we were making nothing first year, 12 k I think, and revenue.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:02

First year.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:03

Second year, I think 20 something, maybe 30 something thousand.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:09

I wasn't taking anything out.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:10

My co-founder wasn't taking anything out.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:12

We started paying ourselves like a hundred dollars a month at some point,

Shae Bynes: 00:35:15

and then $250 a month at some point.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:18

Everything else was reinvested in.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:19

Like we weren't making we were still figuring out what God was having us doing.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:25

So those, and really if you wanna fast forward, even when we became a six figure

Shae Bynes: 00:35:30

revenue business, that wasn't six figures coming into my personal bank account.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:37

took eight years before.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:41

Personally, I could pay myself more than I was making in my corporate career.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:48

Some people would be like, that's crazy.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:50

And I'm like, but I wouldn't, I don't regret a thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:54

I don't regret a thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:55

Walking this thing out with God has been the most amazing and awesome.

Shae Bynes: 00:35:58

And even in its challenges, even in its challenges fruitful

Shae Bynes: 00:36:03

adventure that I wouldn't exchange anything for, I really wouldn't.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:07

But no, financially it was like we had some, we had about a two

Shae Bynes: 00:36:10

and a half year period of time.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:12

That was really tough.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:13

Really tough.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:14

That's what you were alluding to that I mentioned in the book about how we ended

Shae Bynes: 00:36:17

up having to short sell our house to avoid a foreclosure, but God even showed

Shae Bynes: 00:36:22

himself strong in that process too.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:23

That's a whole other story.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:25

So it's like we saw God in everything, even in the things that were, the

Shae Bynes: 00:36:30

things that we didn't hope for, didn't want to see, or in a particular

Shae Bynes: 00:36:34

timing that we just didn't expect.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:36

We could still see God in it

Tim Winders: 00:36:38

Where.

Shae Bynes: 00:36:39

every single step.

Tim Winders: 00:36:40

Where do you think, and this is one of these hypothetical questions

Tim Winders: 00:36:45

my wife and I have gone through this exercise multiple times, and I think

Tim Winders: 00:36:49

it's just to attempt to gain some wisdom and, encourage ourselves some more.

Tim Winders: 00:36:55

But where do you think you would be spiritually if you had opened

Tim Winders: 00:37:01

up Faith-Driven entrepreneur.

Tim Winders: 00:37:02

in 2012?

Tim Winders: 00:37:03

All of a sudden, six figures starts coming in.

Tim Winders: 00:37:05

You saw, you had a book that went viral and things like that and it wasn't that.

Tim Winders: 00:37:11

Long, I call it the quicksand time that I was in from 2008 to 2013 where I couldn't,

Tim Winders: 00:37:18

the Lord didn't let me do anything.

Tim Winders: 00:37:20

I couldn't do anything, and I had ideas and thoughts, and then the ideas and

Tim Winders: 00:37:25

thoughts dried up and it was just, Nope, you and I are gonna work together and

Tim Winders: 00:37:29

I'm gonna teach you how to do this.

Tim Winders: 00:37:31

So yes.

Tim Winders: 00:37:32

ha.

Tim Winders: 00:37:32

Have you ever thought through the process, the journey you've been

Tim Winders: 00:37:36

on and what it might look like if things had been different?

Shae Bynes: 00:37:41

I think about the process and the journey a lot and it actually makes

Shae Bynes: 00:37:44

me sad to reflect on the po on something that's, other than what I've experienced.

Shae Bynes: 00:37:49

Like when I think about cuz, which is why I also very, I very transparently

Shae Bynes: 00:37:55

share all the aspects of the journey with folks and I, I let it land where

Shae Bynes: 00:37:59

it lands, cause I want people to know the reality of what it could be.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:03

But at the same time, for them to have never have seen the, they

Shae Bynes: 00:38:05

never saw a difference in me.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:06

They, I was still full of joy, still full of peace, still walking that out,

Shae Bynes: 00:38:10

that in and of itself spoke volumes.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:14

I can't imagine.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:16

Not I actually, honestly, really, I had a conversation with my dad

Shae Bynes: 00:38:21

because remember I told you I grew up in a church and I didn't know

Shae Bynes: 00:38:23

anything about the Holy Spirit.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:25

Just a few years ago, I'm having a conversation with my dad and

Shae Bynes: 00:38:27

I'm having this conversation.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:28

He's telling me all these really awesome stories about it was like the Holy Spirit

Shae Bynes: 00:38:32

moving his life from years and years ago.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:36

And I remember thi I I, I was almost like, wait, how did I

Shae Bynes: 00:38:41

not, how did this not translate?

Shae Bynes: 00:38:45

I wasn't mad, but it was like a disconnect for me.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:48

And I was a little bit sad almost.

Shae Bynes: 00:38:50

It was like, wow, like I can't believe I'm 42 or 43 at the time, hearing this

Shae Bynes: 00:38:56

story on the other end of having walked this out with him for nine years.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:00

But you B but you've got stories from your twenties that I never knew, so I

Shae Bynes: 00:39:05

think about that and I'm like so that te that answers the question for you.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:09

If I'm thinking about that from the missed, what I do believe was missed,

Shae Bynes: 00:39:14

it's how I also feel about what I did miss, from, what I would've missed

Shae Bynes: 00:39:17

if I didn't just go on this adventure with him, which I think it was my early

Shae Bynes: 00:39:21

thirties, is when this all kind of started

Tim Winders: 00:39:23

and everyone has to go on their own

Shae Bynes: 00:39:27

own

Tim Winders: 00:39:28

journey.

Tim Winders: 00:39:29

Darn it.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:30

Your own journey.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:32

There's things which I love mentoring because there's things that you can

Shae Bynes: 00:39:35

get from others and there's things that I can share with others that

Shae Bynes: 00:39:38

helps them along their journey and also helps them to avoid certain things

Shae Bynes: 00:39:42

or to move faster through something that might have taken longer for me.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:46

But it doesn't matter, it doesn't take away from the fact that

Shae Bynes: 00:39:48

every single individual has to do, have their own walk with God.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:53

You have to have your own testimonies with God.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:55

You can't live off of the testimonies of other people.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:57

You have to build your own history with God.

Shae Bynes: 00:39:59

It's At some point you've got you gotta own this thing for, this is

Shae Bynes: 00:40:02

the life that I'm going to live in.

Shae Bynes: 00:40:04

Him and with him.

Tim Winders: 00:40:05

Sure.

Tim Winders: 00:40:06

All right, one more, one more little money question than a couple other things

Tim Winders: 00:40:09

here and we'll get into grace over grind.

Tim Winders: 00:40:11

Really, all of this is related to

Shae Bynes: 00:40:13

All of it.

Shae Bynes: 00:40:13

Yes.

Tim Winders: 00:40:14

it all.

Tim Winders: 00:40:15

It all fits into us trying to control and do things on our own versus relenting,

Tim Winders: 00:40:22

and allowing the kingdom, God's kingdom to rule and reign in our lives.

Tim Winders: 00:40:26

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:40:27

But were there times along the way, and if you can share maybe one where

Tim Winders: 00:40:31

you looked at the bank account or what was coming in and you said to

Tim Winders: 00:40:36

yourself, because I do think this is an up and down for most people.

Tim Winders: 00:40:40

I don't think it's just this progression where you said, Ooh and it's probably

Tim Winders: 00:40:46

may have been a conversation with God.

Tim Winders: 00:40:48

God I need to step back in and take over.

Tim Winders: 00:40:50

I need to go.

Tim Winders: 00:40:53

Make, I need to provide, this is the thing we say a lot, I

Tim Winders: 00:40:56

need to provide for my family.

Tim Winders: 00:40:58

We've got, we got bills, we got rent, this house is about to

Tim Winders: 00:41:00

go to foreclosure or whatever.

Tim Winders: 00:41:02

Tell me about if there wasn't a time, then I'm gonna be super impressed.

Tim Winders: 00:41:06

But if there was a time, tell me about it.

Tim Winders: 00:41:07

And what was that like?

Tim Winders: 00:41:08

Cuz I, I know that someone listening, going, I can't

Tim Winders: 00:41:12

picture what that might be like.

Tim Winders: 00:41:13

What?

Tim Winders: 00:41:13

How would I get through that?

Shae Bynes: 00:41:15

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:41:16

So there was definitely times where I'm like, man, this has

Shae Bynes: 00:41:20

taken a really long time, Lord.

Shae Bynes: 00:41:22

I would've thought that this would've taken way less time, and it never made me

Shae Bynes: 00:41:27

wanna go backwards, but, It would have me thinking, it would have me like evaluating

Shae Bynes: 00:41:34

and reevaluating and ruminating over my decisions and wondering, oh, I should, I

Shae Bynes: 00:41:39

have made a better decision here or should I have done this here, or so as opposed,

Shae Bynes: 00:41:43

I wasn't trying to take the reins back as much as I would spend mental space.

Shae Bynes: 00:41:49

Trying to evaluate my past, which was not helpful.

Shae Bynes: 00:41:54

I've never want now, mind you, simultaneously, so I'm married.

Shae Bynes: 00:41:57

My husband had already given me the grace for this process.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:02

He had his own journey of what he was, cuz he was then thinking, I've given

Shae Bynes: 00:42:07

my wife the grace she's following the Lord's leading on this thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:11

And she's what I always had made way more, brought more, way

Shae Bynes: 00:42:13

more income in our household.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:15

And so now he had that journey because he's I'm giving her the space to walk

Shae Bynes: 00:42:20

this thing out with God, but my massage practice isn't not making that much money.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:23

Like I, I'm just trying to provide for my family.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:26

He'll tells his testimony all the time, I'm just trying to provide for my family.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:30

And the Lord said to him, that's the problem I provide.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:34

I'm the provider.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:36

And got him all the way together.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:38

And so my husband was having those conversations.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:41

I was in a weird head space.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:43

But yet moving forward, and he was in the head space of trying to

Shae Bynes: 00:42:48

like, make some other things happen.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:49

Let me try to make this happen.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:50

Try to make this money happen so that I can give my wife the space to do

Shae Bynes: 00:42:54

the thing that you called her to do.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:55

So we were definitely experiencing that dynamic fi as a family.

Shae Bynes: 00:42:58

It's just showed up for me and Phil differently.

Tim Winders: 00:43:00

I love that y provide for the family, which is a very I

Tim Winders: 00:43:06

don't wanna say it's not biblical.

Tim Winders: 00:43:07

Some people get a little bit been outta shape with this cuz there's a

Tim Winders: 00:43:09

scripture that says that specifically a man is worse than an infidelity.

Tim Winders: 00:43:13

He doesn't provide for his family.

Tim Winders: 00:43:15

Here's The deal.

Tim Winders: 00:43:15

I don't think we understand what provide for the family means.

Tim Winders: 00:43:18

Providing for the family is pointing them to where

Shae Bynes: 00:43:22

The actual source.

Shae Bynes: 00:43:23

You are still a resource husband,

Tim Winders: 00:43:27

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:43:28

So that, no, I gotta provide You better be providing for you.

Tim Winders: 00:43:30

And listen, I beat myself up a good bit with that.

Tim Winders: 00:43:32

When we lost homes, I had children that were about to be going to college age

Tim Winders: 00:43:36

and I'm like going, man, this is rough.

Shae Bynes: 00:43:39

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:43:39

You brought up that you were getting a little impatient with the

Tim Winders: 00:43:46

process and I, you know who I thought of our man Moses, when you said that.

Tim Winders: 00:43:53

Who spent 40 years on the backside of the desert before he then came

Tim Winders: 00:43:56

and then spent 40 years wandering with those complainant people and

Tim Winders: 00:44:00

then did not see the promised land.

Shae Bynes: 00:44:02

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:44:03

What?

Tim Winders: 00:44:03

Talk about, you actually made a comment in the book, Grace Over Grind about time.

Shae Bynes: 00:44:08

Yes.

Tim Winders: 00:44:08

talk about time and why it messes with us and see, I'll say

Tim Winders: 00:44:13

this and then I'll let you take over.

Tim Winders: 00:44:15

I, my meditation recently has been, I don't think we truly understand, and

Tim Winders: 00:44:22

I don't think understand is the Right.

Tim Winders: 00:44:23

word or try to grasp eternal life.

Tim Winders: 00:44:27

I don't think we have a concept of it and we think we have limited

Tim Winders: 00:44:31

time, which then means maybe we don't believe what we've received.

Tim Winders: 00:44:34

And so we think we're on a deadline and we gotta get it done,

Tim Winders: 00:44:38

and God's moving slow and Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:44:41

God moves extremely slow.

Tim Winders: 00:44:43

So having said all that, talk about time and why it messes with us in this topic,

Shae Bynes: 00:44:50

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:44:51

Because if you think about and I hope I pronounce these things correctly, but

Shae Bynes: 00:44:54

it's like kronas time, which is, our minutes, our seconds, our hours, our

Shae Bynes: 00:44:59

days, our weeks, our months, our years.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:00

We measure everything in that.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:02

And so we can be driven by that because it's the measurement of.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:08

Earth in which we are functioning in every day.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:11

And as a business person, really doesn't matter if you're a business person or not.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:14

Everyone has they wanna see a particular time.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:17

You've got deadlines around this.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:19

Some of 'em are self-imposed, some of them are real ones.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:21

All of that.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:21

So a lot of our lives are surrounding this importance of that measure,

Shae Bynes: 00:45:27

those measurements of time.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:29

But when you're walking with God and you're operating in Christ, we have a

Shae Bynes: 00:45:35

higher reality of time, which is what you were referring to in this kind of

Shae Bynes: 00:45:39

eternal mindset around time, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:45:42

Or this kairos time, God timing, opportune timing.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:45

His timing where it's like in Ecclesiastes, where there's a

Shae Bynes: 00:45:49

time for everything under the sun.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:50

The whole thing where that, there were so many aspects.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:53

I went to go research that in the scripture, how many times

Shae Bynes: 00:45:55

it said time and it was talking about not our aspect of time.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:58

Like over

Shae Bynes: 00:45:59

and

Shae Bynes: 00:45:59

over again.

Shae Bynes: 00:45:59

It was talking about his time, not our measurements of time.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:03

And so when we engage God in that way and have that as our higher

Shae Bynes: 00:46:09

reality in the midst of stuff, it helps us define that pace with him.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:14

Cuz sometimes that pace is slower.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:16

And I've had seasons where the pace is way quicker and it what could

Shae Bynes: 00:46:20

feel even overwhelming if I was operating just in my own strength.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:23

But because I'm in him, with him, the grace is over that pa, that pace, there's

Shae Bynes: 00:46:29

grace all over that pace for that time.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:31

And and that's in his timing.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:32

And you have those moments that are like, we have slow.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:34

And

Shae Bynes: 00:46:34

then there's a suddenly slow.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:35

And then there's a suddenly and you're like, this wasn't really

Shae Bynes: 00:46:37

suddenly, cuz this was really like, this was like a 10 year suddenly,

Tim Winders: 00:46:42

Yeah, that's the

Shae Bynes: 00:46:43

but you feel like it's a suddenly because suddenly something

Shae Bynes: 00:46:46

shifts, suddenly something changes.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:48

But ultimately it really wasn't a, suddenly it was.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:52

It was a process that led to a suddenly.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:56

Not saying that there's not like legit subies that just come outta settles.

Shae Bynes: 00:46:59

I'm just saying most of my subies weren't really legitimately settlers.

Shae Bynes: 00:47:02

They just felt like it.

Tim Winders: 00:47:03

I love.

Tim Winders: 00:47:04

I'm gonna step on a couple more toes here in the in the Church Circle

Tim Winders: 00:47:07

worlds that we've come out of, and I love this word breakthrough.

Tim Winders: 00:47:12

Which I can't find it in the Bible that much.

Tim Winders: 00:47:15

I do think it's part of our modern vernacular and I think it's

Tim Winders: 00:47:17

something we convince ourselves.

Tim Winders: 00:47:19

Most breakthroughs that I've experienced have been about five years in the making

Shae Bynes: 00:47:25

Plus,

Tim Winders: 00:47:26

Plus,

Tim Winders: 00:47:27

and they still are, and they're like molasses.

Tim Winders: 00:47:29

It's like quick saying and I'm like going, and I don't see a lot of

Tim Winders: 00:47:33

that type thing scripturally now.

Tim Winders: 00:47:36

I, I do spend a lot more time probably in the Old Testament, cuz I do a

Tim Winders: 00:47:39

read through the Bible every year

Shae Bynes: 00:47:41

Right.

Tim Winders: 00:47:42

and there's nothing that happened fast there.

Tim Winders: 00:47:44

God was extremely patient with those folks.

Tim Winders: 00:47:47

More patient than you.

Tim Winders: 00:47:48

And I would've been, I would've been.

Tim Winders: 00:47:49

They're done.

Tim Winders: 00:47:50

Done.

Tim Winders: 00:47:51

Let's start over again.

Tim Winders: 00:47:53

Oh, we have a covenant.

Tim Winders: 00:47:54

Darn.

Tim Winders: 00:47:55

Okay.

Tim Winders: 00:47:56

But I do think that we have and this is where I think the prosperity,

Tim Winders: 00:48:02

I think it factors into time.

Tim Winders: 00:48:04

I think that we have this immediacy.

Tim Winders: 00:48:06

We expect things and they better be done quick.

Tim Winders: 00:48:08

And in my lifetime we're gonna see Jesus come back or we're gonna bit

Tim Winders: 00:48:11

raptured or we're gonna do whatever.

Tim Winders: 00:48:13

Just, I'm making fun of that a little bit, but I still I

Tim Winders: 00:48:17

think that time messes with us.

Tim Winders: 00:48:20

And I love your discussion cuz you talked in the book Grace

Tim Winders: 00:48:23

Overground about sustainable rhythms.

Tim Winders: 00:48:24

That's the where I highlighted.

Tim Winders: 00:48:26

And I really loved that rhythm in seasons versus

Shae Bynes: 00:48:30

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:48:30

by Friday at five, I'm gonna get my house payment and

Tim Winders: 00:48:33

we're gonna be outta foreclosure.

Tim Winders: 00:48:35

How many of those days passed by and y'all kept going?

Tim Winders: 00:48:39

What happened?

Shae Bynes: 00:48:40

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 00:48:41

Yes, exactly.

Shae Bynes: 00:48:42

But it was just, but I've just seen, I've just seen the goodness

Shae Bynes: 00:48:47

in the process over and over again.

Shae Bynes: 00:48:48

Even even when I go back and reflect on the most challenging two and a half

Shae Bynes: 00:48:53

years of our last 11, there's those very challenging two and a half years when I

Shae Bynes: 00:48:59

reflect on it, I can mine so much gold from those two and a half years that

Shae Bynes: 00:49:06

were, that's important for me for what was next, what I'm in now, or what is to come.

Shae Bynes: 00:49:12

It is I wouldn't, there's things that it was like, I could say it

Shae Bynes: 00:49:15

would've been nice if that worked like that, or that worked like that.

Shae Bynes: 00:49:18

But instead of focusing on that, I focus on what's the goal that I can take from.

Shae Bynes: 00:49:23

That challenge, that series of challenges, that's the going to

Shae Bynes: 00:49:26

inform my future position me built my capacity for what's next or whatever.

Shae Bynes: 00:49:30

And whenever I do that reflection, it leaves me feeling good about moving

Shae Bynes: 00:49:36

forward and how God moved and how I grew in him in the process of that.

Tim Winders: 00:49:41

So in 2017, you were told or decided, or something happened and

Tim Winders: 00:49:46

you wrote this book, grace Over Grind,

Shae Bynes: 00:49:49

Yep.

Tim Winders: 00:49:50

a great title, and it just fits so much into

Tim Winders: 00:49:53

the, what I've been saying.

Tim Winders: 00:49:55

Jesus never hustled.

Tim Winders: 00:49:55

Why should you?

Tim Winders: 00:49:57

But, so you wrote that book and my guess is, and then you just updated it,

Tim Winders: 00:50:05

which is the version I read overnight, almost read almost all of that,

Tim Winders: 00:50:08

which is an awesome book, by the way.

Tim Winders: 00:50:09

Everybody needs to get it because they need to get the

Tim Winders: 00:50:12

message of the grace over grind.

Tim Winders: 00:50:14

But my guess is you did not have that entirely figured

Tim Winders: 00:50:18

out when you wrote that book.

Tim Winders: 00:50:20

If so, tell me about that, or if not, tell me about it.

Tim Winders: 00:50:24

Why did you write the book back then and what's going on with the update?

Tim Winders: 00:50:27

I.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:28

Yeah I'll tell you that I still don't know everything.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:31

I consider Grace Over Grind a lifestyle upgrade over and over again.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:34

So like I feel like I call my life right now, grace, silver Grind, level

Shae Bynes: 00:50:37

8.0 and that's where I'm at right now.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:39

But I already know that there's a 9.0 at 10.0 and 11.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:42

So I was like, I'm like, I wanna grow in this forever,

Shae Bynes: 00:50:44

so let's make that part clear.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:46

Have not arrived.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:48

Continue to grow in him.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:48

Cause there's always more in him.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:50

Okay, but now going backwards.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:51

So what happened was, so 20 12, 20.

Shae Bynes: 00:50:54

In 2013, maybe six months or so after starting Kingdom Driven

Shae Bynes: 00:50:57

Entrepreneur, I was sitting in church.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:00

Like at this point I was even though I was doing kingdom driven

Shae Bynes: 00:51:01

entrepreneur was still super early.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:03

And I think my concept at that time was more like I'm doing business for God

Shae Bynes: 00:51:07

and for the advancement of the kingdom.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:10

I still hadn't fully, I still had my grind culture in me a bit.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:13

I didn't fully have that with, I had some of it cause I've been experiencing some

Shae Bynes: 00:51:17

of it, but I didn't fully have it, but I was sitting in church and our pastor did

Shae Bynes: 00:51:21

a message on Matthew 1128 through 30 the scripture where Jesus saying, come to me.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:25

All of those who are weary, I'll give you rest.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:26

He talks about his yo is easy and bird's light.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:28

Those are the scriptures.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:29

But he read it in the message and I had never heard it before.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:31

And it says, are you tired, worn out, burnt out on religion?

Shae Bynes: 00:51:35

Come to me, get away with me and you'll recover your life.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:38

I'll show you how to take a real rest.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:40

Walk with me, work with me, watch how I do it.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:43

Learn the unforced rhythms of grace.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:45

I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:47

Keep company with me and you will learn to live freely and lightly.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:51

Tim, listen to me.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:53

I heard that and was like, My whole soul was like yes.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:58

And amen.

Shae Bynes: 00:51:59

Jesus, show me that because there was a gap between what, how I live and

Shae Bynes: 00:52:03

how I work now, and what I just heard.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:05

And so I need you to show me that.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:07

And that was the beginning.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:09

So that was 2013.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:10

The book showed up about, so about four, four and a half years or so

Shae Bynes: 00:52:15

of walking that out was when I wrote that first book and released it.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:19

And I had to release that book because that fundamentally changed everything.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:25

So it was one thing, it was one thing to have acknowledgement of the

Shae Bynes: 00:52:29

kingdom and then be kingdom driven.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:31

But I could still be really motivated for just doing things for God.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:36

And I'm kingdom driven, I'm motivated, and I'm gonna do this for the glory of God.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:39

And I'm mission driven on the mission of this.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:43

I could've stayed on that path, but think, but you can't actually be a

Shae Bynes: 00:52:46

kingdom driven entrepreneur seeking first the kingdom of God and his

Shae Bynes: 00:52:49

righteousness and not do it with.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:52

Him.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:52

So I thank God for that transition.

Shae Bynes: 00:52:54

But to me, the fully transition happened at that revelation that

Shae Bynes: 00:52:58

six months after that year of six months of what is this Lord?

Shae Bynes: 00:53:02

And then six months into actually walking it out that year, mark that

Shae Bynes: 00:53:05

revelation, that's when I fully entered into this kingdom life, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:53:12

Was in that moment.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:13

And that's why that book's so important to me.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:15

Cause it's a kingdom life message I write up for business owners cuz

Shae Bynes: 00:53:18

that's who I'm called to serve.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:19

it's the same message that I operate in as a mom and as a wife and in everything.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:25

And I get messages from church pastors, Silicon Valley,

Shae Bynes: 00:53:29

employees stay at home, mom.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:31

All kinds of folks are like, I read this book cause someone

Shae Bynes: 00:53:34

told me to read this book.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:35

I read this book and it's changing me.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:37

Why?

Shae Bynes: 00:53:37

Cuz it's a kingdom life message.

Shae Bynes: 00:53:39

It's a kingdom shift.

Tim Winders: 00:53:41

It is, and I think some people are recognizing, even people

Tim Winders: 00:53:44

that may not be as air quotes against spiritual or followers of Christ.

Tim Winders: 00:53:48

I think they're recognizing, I call it the hustle culture.

Tim Winders: 00:53:51

You call it that hustle and grind culture,

Tim Winders: 00:53:53

That the mental health is not good, the physical health is not

Tim Winders: 00:53:58

good and it doesn't work like.

Tim Winders: 00:54:03

We think it does.

Tim Winders: 00:54:04

I think it's good if you're trying to sell stuff into people that hustle and grind,

Tim Winders: 00:54:07

but I don't know that it works that well.

Tim Winders: 00:54:09

And so I think people are recognizing, and I don't know, they're recognizing

Tim Winders: 00:54:12

it in the droves that they need to, but that is the transition.

Tim Winders: 00:54:18

So it's an excellent book, Grace Over Grind.

Tim Winders: 00:54:21

So thanks for writing that.

Shae Bynes: 00:54:23

Absolutely.

Tim Winders: 00:54:24

else, what did you do to update it?

Tim Winders: 00:54:26

You got the new version five years.

Tim Winders: 00:54:27

I think There's a few chapters you added and a few adjustments and all

Tim Winders: 00:54:30

because the message is foundational.

Shae Bynes: 00:54:33

Yeah, the message is foundational.

Shae Bynes: 00:54:34

But the reason why I wrote the fifth anniversary edition is

Shae Bynes: 00:54:37

because after I least released the first one, I was noticing a

Shae Bynes: 00:54:41

thread of similarity in the types.

Shae Bynes: 00:54:43

Cause you know, we mentor a community of folks, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:54:45

So I was realizing that people were getting hung up on some

Shae Bynes: 00:54:48

of the same things, or I get the same types of questions.

Shae Bynes: 00:54:52

And I'll tell you that chapter on sustainable rhythms, which was a new

Shae Bynes: 00:54:55

chapter, that was one of them, where it's I consistently got issues, questions,

Shae Bynes: 00:55:00

stuff that led to me writing that chapter.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:02

That was probably one of the, that was a fundamental chapter that I

Shae Bynes: 00:55:05

wrote in response to a whole bunch of questions and roadblocks and

Shae Bynes: 00:55:09

obstacles that I observed and people, or got questions about from readers.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:13

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:14

So I read, I wrote that one because I felt like I needed to answer.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:18

The issues that people were having as they were walking it out.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:21

And there was things that I grew in.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:24

So even though some of the chapters are not new chapters, there was new things

Shae Bynes: 00:55:27

within those chapters because there's, there is a whole nother layer of another

Shae Bynes: 00:55:31

five years of growth that I've had in it.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:34

One major difference for me, Tim, between when I wrote the first one and

Shae Bynes: 00:55:37

the second one is when I wrote the first one I was like, this is an invitation

Shae Bynes: 00:55:42

from God and we should say yes to it.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:44

And I was in that awe and wonder of the invitation.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:48

When I wrote the second one, I'm like, this is an invitation

Shae Bynes: 00:55:52

to be an awe wonder up.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:53

Aw and wonder about however, it is also what you're called

Shae Bynes: 00:55:56

to in the kingdom of God.

Shae Bynes: 00:55:57

Like this is not like a, oh this is a nice to, this is a nice way to live

Shae Bynes: 00:56:02

if you wanna live that way in the cri.

Shae Bynes: 00:56:03

But I'm saying if you're calling yourself a citizen of the kingdom of God, It

Shae Bynes: 00:56:08

actually is gotta be in him and with him.

Shae Bynes: 00:56:11

And so my, I have a much deeper conviction around the, not only the

Shae Bynes: 00:56:16

invitation, but the call and what you're equipped for, designed for is this life.

Shae Bynes: 00:56:21

So it's a greater conviction for sure.

Tim Winders: 00:56:24

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:56:25

that there's so many good things to it, and me things going through my mind here.

Tim Winders: 00:56:29

I tell you what, let's just, maybe in the few minutes we have what I would love for

Tim Winders: 00:56:34

you to do and I think you do this, you do a lot of myths and facts and truths or

Tim Winders: 00:56:38

something like that throughout the book, but I'd love for you to give a few, I

Tim Winders: 00:56:43

don't know if even contrast or the right.

Tim Winders: 00:56:45

term here but I know there's people listening in that they're all in

Tim Winders: 00:56:50

that hustle and grind culture or that hustle, culture, whatever you wanna

Tim Winders: 00:56:53

call it, but they think they're going to church, they're doing all that thing.

Tim Winders: 00:56:57

They think they're listening to the Lord and all.

Tim Winders: 00:56:58

that.

Tim Winders: 00:56:59

And I'm not, we're not judging that.

Tim Winders: 00:57:00

But I can tell you that I thought until you, you don't know.

Tim Winders: 00:57:05

I don't even if I said that so give some people some clues that they have not

Tim Winders: 00:57:10

stepped into that kingdom realm, that they're still over in that hustle realm.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:14

yes, So I'm gonna define terms so that we all

Shae Bynes: 00:57:16

having the same conversation.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:17

So when I talk about grind, I'm talking about a Miriam Webre even

Shae Bynes: 00:57:20

says this excessive hard work.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:23

I'm gonna take it another layer.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:24

Hard in the dictionary means unyielding, excessive unyielding work.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:29

Take another layer.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:30

Doing business primarily in your own strengths to go straight Bible on it.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:34

Okay?

Shae Bynes: 00:57:34

So that's what we're talking about here.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:36

Now, this is very a predominant way for people to move and to work.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:41

So they typically have a lot more anxiety.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:44

They often have, I'll call it prayerlessness.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:47

That doesn't mean that you don't pray, but it's like you have this rhythm of rote

Shae Bynes: 00:57:52

prayers that you have, but you don't have just this ongoing engagement with God.

Shae Bynes: 00:57:57

There's a lot of times you'll have a lack of joy, a lack of peace, a lack

Shae Bynes: 00:57:59

of boundaries, because you think that you're the source and not a resource.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:04

And so you have to make yourself available to all the things, all the time, to

Shae Bynes: 00:58:07

make all the things happen, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:08

You may be on team, no sleep, you don't rest enough.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:11

I'm not, I'm talking about physical rest right now.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:13

You don't rest enough.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:15

And sometimes that's motivated, not just because you think that I

Shae Bynes: 00:58:19

have to stay up in order to make it happen, but even those who are like,

Shae Bynes: 00:58:22

but this doesn't feel like work.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:24

I love this so much.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:24

It doesn't feel like work.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:26

You're still working primarily in your own strength and not operating from that

Shae Bynes: 00:58:31

rest and those rhythms of God, right?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:33

And so there's a lot of things, but I gotta tell you that one of the most

Shae Bynes: 00:58:36

prominent ones, Is that anxiety, the analysis paralysis around things like,

Shae Bynes: 00:58:41

I call that the mind grind, where it's like you just can't move forward

Shae Bynes: 00:58:43

cuz you just con you're just, it's constantly going on in your head, is it?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:46

And then when you add God to the equation, you're like, is it God?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:48

Is it me?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:49

Is it a pizza I eight at 11 o'clock last night?

Shae Bynes: 00:58:51

I don't know.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:51

And you're just in this stagnation and just, in that doubt and all of that.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:55

And then also financial anxiety.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:57

I'm overly consumed with what's coming in.

Shae Bynes: 00:58:59

I'm overly consumed with what's not coming in.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:02

I'm overly consumed with what's here, what's there.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:04

And obviously there's a healthy focus we need to have on numbers as a

Shae Bynes: 00:59:06

business person or really as any person.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:09

Money is an important tool in life, but there is such thing.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:12

And it's also a prominent way for people to function that there's an

Shae Bynes: 00:59:16

over, there's an overemphasis that leads to anxiety around the money.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:22

Those are some of the signs.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:24

And if you check your motivations, like what motivates you to do what

Shae Bynes: 00:59:26

you do, you'll find others like, I wanna prove my haters wrong.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:29

Okay.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:29

But then you wanna show you're gonna move.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:31

Move as independently as possible because you wanna prove somebody wrong.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:35

So there's all kinds of things that show up.

Tim Winders: 00:59:38

Yeah, and I think that anxiety's key.

Tim Winders: 00:59:40

I found myself in the nineties being proud of the fact that I've

Tim Winders: 00:59:43

rarely slept and I was operating off my adrenals and stuff like that.

Shae Bynes: 00:59:46

team, no sleep.

Tim Winders: 00:59:47

farther before you get to Matthew 6 33, there's a scripture, it

Tim Winders: 00:59:51

might be in the twenties or something, but it says you can't serve two masters.

Tim Winders: 00:59:54

You can't serve God in mammon.

Tim Winders: 00:59:57

And I would love for us, this is almost my last question.

Tim Winders: 01:00:00

We got a couple more, but I would love.

Tim Winders: 01:00:03

If you've got anything practical, something that someone's

Tim Winders: 01:00:07

going, I just don't know.

Tim Winders: 01:00:08

I could put that much trust in God.

Tim Winders: 01:00:09

I don't know exactly how to do that.

Tim Winders: 01:00:10

What can I do to move closer to this state of, we didn't get into Sabbath

Tim Winders: 01:00:16

because I think this is, we're talking about living a Sabbath life.

Tim Winders: 01:00:20

not like a day of the week Sabbath, but we're talking about being at a

Tim Winders: 01:00:23

condi, at a position of rest, but give a few practicals for that person

Tim Winders: 01:00:28

that they're think sooner going on.

Tim Winders: 01:00:29

I think I'm serving mammon.

Tim Winders: 01:00:31

I'm not serving God.

Tim Winders: 01:00:32

I'm serving two masters, but I really want to trust God more.

Tim Winders: 01:00:35

How can they do it?

Tim Winders: 01:00:36

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:37

Yeah.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:37

So I'm gonna take you to the step one that, that I did that

Shae Bynes: 01:00:40

changed everything for me.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:41

Cause remember I talked about how intimacy with God is everything.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:43

Cause it rooted us in identity.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:45

So the first thing is the focus on cultivating greater intimacy with God.

Shae Bynes: 01:00:50

The way that looks for me, especially since I wasn't focused on inviting God

Shae Bynes: 01:00:55

into the business space, but just in my wife and mom space, is I started

Shae Bynes: 01:01:00

having daily business meetings with God.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:02

So I started engaging the scripture differently and saying, okay, instead

Shae Bynes: 01:01:05

of reading this for achievement, Holy Spirit, make this word come alive for me.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:08

Talk to me about me.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:09

Talk to me about whatever you wanna talk to me about as I engage this word.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:12

Cause I wanna engage the living word while I'm reading this written word, right?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:15

And so I started engaging scripture differently and I started taking my

Shae Bynes: 01:01:18

plans and my thoughts and my to-do list, and I'd surrendered them and I act.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:22

I would actually ask the Lord these are my thoughts.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:24

What are your thoughts?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:26

What do you want?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:26

What's on your heart concerning this business?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:28

What's on your heart concerning?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:29

I started having dialogue with God, which by the way, I hadn't had before.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:34

Let's be clear.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:36

Not on anything around business, other, unless it was, I got a problem, Lord,

Shae Bynes: 01:01:39

help fix it, and then hopefully maybe you'll gimme a strategy so I can fix it.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:42

So I didn't have that engagement of seeking him first, getting

Shae Bynes: 01:01:45

his mind and heart around things and engaging him in that way.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:48

I didn't even have that with reading the scripture because

Shae Bynes: 01:01:50

I was reading the scripture.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:52

I wouldn't say I was reading it for achievement, but in practicality, I

Shae Bynes: 01:01:55

was reading it for achievement, right?

Shae Bynes: 01:01:56

Oh, I read the word today.

Shae Bynes: 01:01:58

So I think that doing, engaging God differently in new ways that you haven't

Shae Bynes: 01:02:03

before is a really important step towards cultivating greater intimacy with God.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:08

Because that's where everything stems from.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:11

Like you can't operate at a rest, which I define as an act

Shae Bynes: 01:02:15

of awareness of his presence.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:17

If you're not engaging in getting awareness of his presence with you.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:22

All the time.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:24

And so just practicing that with him for me, just creating a rhythm

Shae Bynes: 01:02:28

of practicing, just my awareness of his presence with me by engaging

Shae Bynes: 01:02:34

him differently was with foundation that everything else was built on.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:37

So I'm always like, so I tell the business people, I'm like, start having

Shae Bynes: 01:02:39

daily business meetings with God.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:40

Like act just like you would put meetings with other people, have daily business

Shae Bynes: 01:02:44

meetings with God and not just so that you can have your checklist of things.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:47

Look, I'm gonna pray for my clients.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:48

I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do that, but actually give him some space to create

Shae Bynes: 01:02:51

an agenda in your time together.

Shae Bynes: 01:02:53

So don't even go into that with I've got my blueprint for how I should have a daily

Shae Bynes: 01:02:56

business meeting with God, but actually allow the openness of the space and the

Shae Bynes: 01:03:00

relationship development in that space.

Shae Bynes: 01:03:03

And it might feel super awkward for you when you do it.

Shae Bynes: 01:03:07

And I'd say keep doing it anyway.

Shae Bynes: 01:03:09

And then take a step in faith based off of, in a step in faith

Shae Bynes: 01:03:13

based off of the things that you believe he's revealing to you.

Tim Winders: 01:03:15

I, the reason I really like that is that you use terminology

Tim Winders: 01:03:18

business meeting instead of prayer meeting, or, because it, it's what?

Tim Winders: 01:03:22

It's the language that many people listening in will understand.

Tim Winders: 01:03:26

They have business meetings all the time.

Tim Winders: 01:03:27

Probably have too many meetings, but they've

Shae Bynes: 01:03:29

No, probably

Tim Winders: 01:03:29

All the time.

Tim Winders: 01:03:31

Why not have one with the creator of the universe, that one that created you

Tim Winders: 01:03:35

when he's more than willing to do that.

Tim Winders: 01:03:37

I, that's that relationship that so many of us, we like, we want all the stuff,

Tim Winders: 01:03:42

those things at the end of Matthew 6 33, but we aren't willing to seek first the

Tim Winders: 01:03:46

righteousness and that Kingdom of God.

Tim Winders: 01:03:48

So incredible.

Tim Winders: 01:03:50

Great book, Grace Over Grind.

Tim Winders: 01:03:52

Shae, tell us where to find you, the book, other stuff.

Tim Winders: 01:03:56

We'll try to include it down in the notes, but just let people know.

Tim Winders: 01:03:58

And then I've got one more question before we wrap

Shae Bynes: 01:04:00

sure.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:00

You can go to GraceOverGrind.com and you can get the book there.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:03

It's on Amazon.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:04

You can get in paperback, Kendall, or audio.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:06

So you can get that there.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:07

And you can find me Shae Bynes on Facebook, Instagram.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:12

LinkedIn wherever you are.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:14

I'm not on really, I'm not really active on TikTok, but you can find me

Shae Bynes: 01:04:16

on LinkedIn, Facebook, or Instagram.

Shae Bynes: 01:04:18

But grab Grace Over Grind, GraceOverGrind.com or

Shae Bynes: 01:04:21

go directly to Amazon?

Tim Winders: 01:04:22

Thank you Shae.

Tim Winders: 01:04:23

I've still got about 20 questions asked, but I don't have good time for this.

Tim Winders: 01:04:29

We need more time.

Tim Winders: 01:04:29

I need a rhythm.

Tim Winders: 01:04:30

I need a better time rhythm to do the things that the Lord would have me to do.

Tim Winders: 01:04:35

We are seek, go create those three words, Shae.

Tim Winders: 01:04:38

And we used one of the, we actually used multiple words there

Tim Winders: 01:04:42

throughout this conversation.

Tim Winders: 01:04:43

I'm gonna play little game here and I'm only gonna tell you, you could take,

Tim Winders: 01:04:46

pick one of those over the other two.

Tim Winders: 01:04:49

Just that resonates more with you, means more to you at this

Tim Winders: 01:04:51

particular time, during this season.

Tim Winders: 01:04:53

Which word is it and why?

Shae Bynes: 01:04:55

Yeah, at this particular time it is definitely seek and why,

Shae Bynes: 01:05:00

because I'm on the other side of not being the c e o of the company

Shae Bynes: 01:05:04

of which I co-founded, and God's revealing new areas for me to walk in.

Shae Bynes: 01:05:09

And so I'm having to, I feel very much like I did many years ago

Shae Bynes: 01:05:12

where it's like, Ooh, this is new.

Shae Bynes: 01:05:14

Oh, this isn't my expertise.

Shae Bynes: 01:05:15

Oh, this is, and walking these things out with him and seeking his mind and heart

Shae Bynes: 01:05:19

concerning the new areas and spheres of influence that he's calling me into.

Shae Bynes: 01:05:23

So definitely seek for show.

Tim Winders: 01:05:26

I love that seek, because it fits in with what you said.

Tim Winders: 01:05:29

Have the business meetings.

Tim Winders: 01:05:29

That's almost the seek portion of that is

Tim Winders: 01:05:33

that you've got to seek and spend time there.

Tim Winders: 01:05:35

Shae Bynes, thank you so much for joining us on Seek GoCreate.

Tim Winders: 01:05:39

What a great conversation.

Tim Winders: 01:05:40

I want to keep having it, but also wanna watch our time here.

Tim Winders: 01:05:44

I highly recommend if you've listened in number one, go

Tim Winders: 01:05:47

get the book Grace Over Grind.

Tim Winders: 01:05:50

Excellent book.

Tim Winders: 01:05:50

Everyone needs it.

Tim Winders: 01:05:52

Second thing I'm gonna recommend is that I believe that you need to

Tim Winders: 01:05:55

share this episode with someone.

Tim Winders: 01:05:58

Someone needs to hear this.

Tim Winders: 01:06:00

The best way that people get exposed to podcasts is by someone

Tim Winders: 01:06:03

personally recommending it.

Tim Winders: 01:06:04

So take a screenshot or if you're watching on YouTube or doing anything

Tim Winders: 01:06:07

like that, Share it, text it to 'em and say, you need to listen to this

Tim Winders: 01:06:14

person, Shea, and this guy Tim in the RV that was asking questions.

Tim Winders: 01:06:18

You need to listen in on this and and make sure that they hear what we have to say.

Tim Winders: 01:06:23

So share this.

Tim Winders: 01:06:24

We have new episodes every Monday.

Tim Winders: 01:06:26

Subscribe, follow, listen.

Tim Winders: 01:06:28

This is your host, Tim Winders.

Tim Winders: 01:06:29

Until next time, continue being all that you were created to be.