The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel and Other End Time Delusions with Steve Wohlberg

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So bottom line is, Gentiles and Jews who believe in Jesus

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become part of the Israel of God.

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They're the ones that are going to be under assault by

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the devil in the final days.

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And if we, trust the Lord and he's with us and we believe in him, we follow his word.

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Our home is the new Jerusalem and the earthly Jerusalem has no role in

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the book of revelation, not one text.

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It's just like seven years of tribulation, not one text disappearing Christians,

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not one text, the Jewish state in the book of revelation, not one text.

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it's a mammoth, system.

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of illusion and delusion.

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Um, uh,

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How does our understanding of biblical end times shape our daily lives

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and decision making today on seek, go create the leadership journey.

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We explore this question with Steve Wahlberg, director of white horse

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media and author of in time delusions.

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The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World.

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As a prolific writer and speaker who has graced over 500 radio and TV shows,

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and even spoken at the Pentagon and U.

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S.

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Senate, Steve brings a wealth of knowledge and a unique

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perspective to our discussion.

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Join us as we explore how End Times theology not only informs

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our spiritual outlook, but actively influences our real world engagements.

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choices, Steve, welcome to seek, go create,

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Thank you, Tim.

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I've been looking forward to this interview and now it has arrived.

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thank you for having me.

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it is arrived.

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I will typically do a decent amount of prep, you know, I'll listen to

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a few things and I'll read a few things, Steve, I may have done

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more prep for this than I've done for just about any interview I've

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Well,

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And, I'll just say this and then I'll dive into my few basic questions.

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I like to start with, I think it's been my personal journey for

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about the last year and a half.

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I have been going down a lot of rabbit holes, a lot of

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trails and things like that.

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I love that you came across my desk and I've got your book here.

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We're going to discuss.

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I just finished reading it.

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I will say the last portion, I had to read a little faster than I would

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typically want to, but we're going to have some good discussions here.

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But.

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Steve, before we get started, I'd like to kind of like do an

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icebreaker question to start off with.

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and it's really the question that I would ask if you and I were

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out about out and about on an airplane or something like that.

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And we bumped into each other, I would say, Hey, Steve, great to meet you.

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What you do?

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So if somebody asks you what you do, what's your answer?

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Yeah, that's a challenging, simple question because I do so many

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different things, so simple answer.

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I would tell somebody that I'm a minister.

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I'm the director of Whitehorse Media.

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I write books.

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I give seminars.

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We have a big YouTube channel.

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We produce programs and we're all about the Bible and trying to

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help people find hope and to find Jesus and to have a better life.

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So that's kind of the, you know, in a nutshell, there's

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a lot of other moving parts.

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I'm also a husband and I'm a dad.

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I'm a gardener.

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I like my orchard.

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My apples are just ready to pick off the tree right now.

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I think I'll wait a little bit more till farther into October, but, um,

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I do a lot of things, but bottom line is I'm here to help people to

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know the Bible and to find what I found, which is really, really good.

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Very nice.

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You mentioned gardener.

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My wife is down cleaning out our garden where we spend our summers

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here in hills is it's today's the day to have the garden cleaned out

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So picking the last tomatoes on the vines and herbs and things like that.

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So

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I did that yesterday.

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I'm a laborer and I water

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Yeah, I picked my tomatoes yesterday because my app on

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my phone said, freeze warning.

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Time to pull them in so I do want to jump back to that.

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You know that what you do question What kind of responses do you

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get from people that might be?

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Let's say you're not in a church setting or a spiritual setting or anything like

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that and you respond that way What what are people responding when you say that?

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it's all across the board.

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And I don't always say all those things, you know, I'm saying those things to you.

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I'm a minister and I, try to help people understand the Bible.

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so it depends.

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And I'm just curious if you don't mind my asking a question to you.

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You said that, it's been about a year and a half that you've become

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interested in end time prophecy.

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Could you just fill that in a little bit for me?

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What prompted you?

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I mean, obviously you're, you know, you look at your mouth the same age as I am.

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So a year and a half, I've been studying property for 45 years.

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So what happened to you?

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We got you interested.

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Yeah, that, that's actually a great lead in, I think, to the discussion here.

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my background, I've been a follower of Christ now for 30 plus years in my late

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twenties, I'm 60, I'm about to be 61.

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So, and I think you're a couple of years older maybe,

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65.

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I do want to.

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Yeah, I do want to say for anyone just listening to the audio, these

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are two really handsome, good looking, very youngish looking men

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that are on this video right here.

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you.

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We take good care of ourselves,

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try.

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All

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I grew up in a home that we popped in and out of church just

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outside of the Atlanta area.

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We popped in and out some, but I wouldn't say it was a deeply spiritual

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home, but we're in the Bible belt.

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I vividly remember a book on my parents shelves called The Late Great Planet

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Earth by a guy named Hal Lindsey that we may discuss a little bit of

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that theory and all in just a moment.

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late 80s, got married and, saved, met Jesus Christ, became

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a follower of Christ, and started going through a good bit of study.

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And I've been studying the Word since that time, almost on a daily basis.

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So, it's not as if I know nothing, I always sort of stayed away from

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that, let's call it the revelation and the end times discussion.

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Until sometime in the mid 90s, there was these books that came out.

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that were the left behind books.

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And, I got those and I read them from cover to cover almost the

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day they came out until about the seventh or eighth book in.

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And I realized that in all likelihood, I was just reading a soap opera that

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had a few scriptures that it was.

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basing those, those stories on.

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so I kind of set aside what we will call eschatology or end

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times still doing a lot of study.

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I mean, I've done tremendous studies on the kingdom of God.

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I've gone to Bible school for a few years.

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I've done a lot of studies, but towards the tail end of last year, I felt as if

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the Lord was nudging me to understand.

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He was, there's a word he kept dropping in both my wife and I, that

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was just more of an eternal mindset.

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He wanted us to understand an eternal mindset.

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So, that's kind of what started me on just some studies that

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were a little bit deeper.

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There was a lot of things going on in the world that really bothered me

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what we will term the dispensational theory, that theory that goes back to.

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we will say, the late great planet earth.

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And so there were a lot of political things and all of that.

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So I say all that to kind of lead into kind of my first big question for you.

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And that is this, there are a lot, I know in just a moment, we're probably

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going to talk about the three lenses.

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That's what your book talks about.

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The three lenses that we can

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right.

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I actually, I'm not going to disagree with that, but I believe there's a

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lot of lenses that we could look at.

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When we start reading scripture I'll give a few of them and then I'll let you

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respond and talk a little bit about that.

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I think we can look at it from the lenses of what I just talked to you about,

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how I was raised, where I was raised, the country I'm in, things like that.

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I also am noticing, and this is something that bothers me.

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A lot of people are reading this with their political lens.

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putting on their political hat or their politics and they're reading the Bible,

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attempting to pull scriptures or ideas or theories or whatever related to that.

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Also our churches denominations and things like that feed into it.

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I think, and I don't know if this is where you want to go into the three lenses

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that you talk about, but talk about how.

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Culture,

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the world we're in, the country we grew up in, talk a little bit about how those

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things the discussion of end times.

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And then maybe we'll go into those lenses that you talk about.

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Of course.

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Yes.

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And, it's, it's interesting that the late great planet earth by how Lindsay was

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the first Christian book I ever read.

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So, you know, I can relate to that when I was not even, I

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was not a Christian in 1979.

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I was living in the North Hollywood, Hollywood area started to search and

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that was the first book that I read.

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you mentioned lenses in my, in my book, end time delusions.

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I do talk about the three major lenses through which we can understand the book.

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But your, your point is, is very valid that we all come to

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the Bible with our own lenses.

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So there's a lot of other lenses based on how people just view life.

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you know, people.

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Depending upon where you live, how you grew up, what you've been taught,

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there's all kinds of factors, that influence a person's thinking.

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So from that perspective, there's a lot of different lenses through which

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people see as they read the Bible.

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So, yeah, I totally agree with that.

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that kind of brings up, the one I'd love for you to maybe just talk a little bit

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more about, and this is not, I want to say, I'm not trying to be controversial.

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We're in an interesting topic, but I think the politics.

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Of the day are interesting to me with relation to this, and this is going to

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get into, one of those lenses, which I think you titled the futurist lens, but it

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appears as if there's quite a few people that are looking at current headlines.

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They're looking at current people running for office and different things.

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Things like that, and they're attempting to take scripture to either

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explain it or justify their beliefs.

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I'll say it in that strong way.

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do you want to say anything about that?

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I don't know when this releases.

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It could be releasing close to the time of election in the United States.

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You know, I'm not really wanting to come out and speak much on that, but just

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what, what are your thoughts on that?

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Especially someone who's been around this for 40 plus years.

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the political lens is very real.

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People look at.

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At politics, or at the Bible through the eyes of their political preferences.

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so there's, you know, there's lots of different views.

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the idea of Christian nationalism, you know, that's a whole other topic.

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People look at revelation through those eyes, look at

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the Bible through those eyes.

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People, there's just all kinds of eyes.

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I think you've heard, you've heard the, the expression,

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they're kind of technical terms.

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When I was in the seminary, I learned these things.

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I don't use these words a lot, but there's what's called exegesis and iso Jesus.

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And exegesis is actually bringing out what's in the text.

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What does the Bible say?

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And I see Jesus is where you read, you read into the text

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what you want it to say.

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And so I think we all.

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Whatever our backgrounds, we all need to make a conscious effort to put our own

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preconceived ideas, our own biases, our own, you know, background perceptions and

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lay those aside and then say, Lord, you teach me and the principle of humility.

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To me is, is very, very important that we need, we all need to, as the Bible

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says, humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and he will lift you up.

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Jesus said, those who exalt themselves will be humbled.

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Those who humble themselves will be exalted.

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And we all need to humble ourselves and say, Lord, give me the Holy

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Spirit and help me to understand.

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What you are trying to say in the Bible rather than what I want the Bible to say

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or what I've been taught, you know, we have to lay aside preconceived opinions

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and that was the challenge with, with the disciples, even in the time of Jesus,

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they became followers of Christ, but they had a lot of preconceived ideas

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that they had been taught by the rabbis.

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the rabbis see this a whole other topic.

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they were very religious people.

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They were committed to the scriptures.

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And yet they had a certain track of what they thought the Messiah

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was going to do when he came.

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They had very definite ideas and they believe Messiah is going to come.

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He's going to conquer the Romans.

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The hated Romans, he's going to sit on the throne, in Jerusalem.

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He's going to rule.

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He's going to exalt us as the leaders of Israel.

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And when Jesus came, he didn't fit that sequence.

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He didn't fit that model.

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He didn't come to do those things.

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And so they misinterpreted the scriptures, and Jesus tried to work with them, and

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even his own disciples had received so many of those ideas that they were in

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their heads, and it took a long time for Jesus to get those ideas out of their

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heads, and the rabbis, a lot of them, most of them, just, became set in their ways.

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And so we also there's the.

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The principle of pride and opinion and then humbling ourselves and seeing

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what God actually has to say and it's a journey, you know, we all have a lot to

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learn and we all have a lot to unlearn.

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Yeah.

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And I.

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just think to myself at times because my mind, I don't want to say dogmatic,

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but I can be, I can get to places where I really truly believe I'm right.

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My wife tells me this often.

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And, I want to say with, especially even with this topic that we're talking about,

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that I approach this topic, even with great deal of humility, because there's

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just a lot here that, I think our lenses can be impacted by, I think the thing I'd

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love to ask now, Steve, maybe related to that, I know, you were born into a Jewish

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family going to ask you to talk just a little bit more about that, but I'd love

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for you to kind of give a little bit of your background and maybe as you're doing

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it, talk a little bit about, Possibly some of those paradigms or lenses maybe that

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you've had to work through over the years that you've now done your study and all

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of that because I'm sure kind of like me.

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I grew up in the bible belt I've had to kind of push some of those aside So I

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guess this is my way of saying tell me a little bit more about your background

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But as you're doing it some of the things hurdles you've had to overcome

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related to You know some of the lenses or paradigms you needed to push through

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Yeah, it's interesting that when my background.

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Well, let me back up.

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As you mentioned, I'm Jewish.

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I come from a Jewish home in Southern California in the Hollywood Hills.

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But our Jewish home was very, very secular.

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We were really cultural Jews.

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So there was no religion.

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There was no prayer.

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There was no Bible study.

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I did not grow up learning the story of Noah or Moses or David.

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I knew nothing about those things.

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So we didn't go to synagogue.

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We didn't go to church.

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We kept Hanukkah and Christmas, which was great because I'd

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get presents on both days.

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And that was about the extent of my Judaism.

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You know, it was Passover with some friends, neighbors, we'd celebrate

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Passover, but it was all just a Jewish cultural thing, lox, cream

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cheese, bagels, but there was no spiritual relationship with God.

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So when I.

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Entered my teen years.

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I got lost in the world of drugs and wild living and the rock

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and roll concerts in the 70s.

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And that was just what my friends did.

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So that's what I did.

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And then when I was 19 or 20, I started feeling a need for something in my life.

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And I began to run into Christians who began to plant seeds saying,

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Hey, you need to read the Bible.

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So I started, I picked up a Bible and started reading it.

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And at that point, I really didn't have a lot to I didn't have a

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major lens to give up because I was pretty much a blank slate.

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And so, when I started reading the Bible for the 1st time and read, eventually

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got to the New Testament, read about Jesus as as the Messiah and as the

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Savior, I didn't have a whole lot of.

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Judaism inside of me saying Christians or you know, Christians are weird

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and Jews can't believe in Jesus because that's a different religion.

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There was none of that.

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It was just a blank slate.

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And I just was drawn to Jesus, especially seeing him suffering in the garden

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of Gethsemane and then dying on the cross and then rising from the dead.

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it just, I just realized this is the man that I need in my life.

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He's got something that I've, I've never seen.

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So I got on my knees, Asked him to come into my heart and forgive my sins.

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He did.

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He changed my life.

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I began to feel this peace that I'd never known.

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And that's what launched me into my Christian life, which was like

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night and day, no more drugs, no more rock and roll, no more parties,

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no more discos, no more going out at three in the morning and no more

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hangovers, you know, all that changed.

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And so, as I began to read the Bible and became a Christian, then I began

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to, you know, study the Bible more.

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And then I realized that Jesus.

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Not only came once in fulfillment of prophecy, but that he was coming

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back again, and that's what launched me into a study of revelation and

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prophecy, Daniel revelation, because I wanted to learn more about what's

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going to happen before he comes again.

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And when he comes again, and after he comes again.

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So all of that, those were all factors.

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And so I think I came into it pretty much with a blank slate.

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And the more I learned, and I think there's, you know, sometimes you can

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have a lot of things, ideas in your head.

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And if they're good ideas, that's good.

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But if they're not ideas, then you have a lot to unlearn.

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And it's hard sometimes to give up what we've previously

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learned, which may not be true.

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But it's easier if you don't have all those ideas in your

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head, you have a blank slate.

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And that was me.

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So now it's been 45 years, I've been studying the Bible.

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the Lord has just, he's led me step by step into ministry and seminars, teaching.

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And now with White Horse Media up in North Idaho, we have a staff here.

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There's about eight of us.

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We have a big studio.

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We have a YouTube channel that's growing rapidly and just a

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lot of good things happening.

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it's been a long journey, a lot of ups and downs, but that's

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kind of the long and short of it.

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Nice.

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And well, you did have to give, get all that disco music out of

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your head that actually could have

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Yeah, You're right.

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I had to give up.

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say, you did say you read that late, great planet earth early

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Yes.

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probably was

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All I remember was just the horns and the beasts and the dragon and I

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really didn't comprehend any of that.

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So it wasn't like I believed it and then had to give it up.

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I just didn't really understand it.

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so would you say that your study of this topic?

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Was pretty close to started at that time, I mean, a lot of

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people go through some different,

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topics when they first come to know the Lord, but you kind

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of were gravitating towards

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Right away.

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It wasn't long.

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Yeah.

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And like you said, you kind of were nudged.

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The Lord nudged you.

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I think that was the word you used to start studying in that times.

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It was not a nudge for me.

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It was like, do this.

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You've got to do this.

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I'm calling you to do this.

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And so, I've always felt a calling to study prophecy.

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and the more I did that, then I realized that there were different views out there.

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Mm

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the more I studied things became clearer and clearer and clearer.

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I think if you get the right, for me, it was a matter of reading the right books.

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if you read all the wrong books, you may believe them and get off track, but if

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you get the right books, you can then begin to see and things make sense.

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Yes,

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involved with a church or denomination or anything like that?

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Because I know you also went to seminary, so what seminary did

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you go to, and are you part of a denominational church or anything, yeah?

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I went to Andrews University, which is, a Seventh day Adventist, seminary.

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And in my early days, I bounced around.

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I went to a lot of different churches.

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I went to a Baptist church.

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I went to Methodist church, Calvary Chapel.

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Knocked on the door of the synagogue trying to talk to the rabbi.

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He wasn't there that day.

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So I bounced around and then I turned on a tv set one day and saw an adventist

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minister He had a program called it is written and he was giving a bible

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study and it interested me and I thought well I'll check out the adventists.

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So I went to the adventist church and what they taught To me, it made sense.

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It was based on the Bible.

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It fit, especially the idea of the Ten Commandments, because I remember I was

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very confused at one point, and then when I realized that God wrote Ten

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Commandments with his own finger on stone, I remember distinctly thinking to

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myself, I'm very confused about religion at that point, but something tells me

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if I stick to the Ten Commandments, I'm gonna be on the right track.

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And then ultimately also if I follow Jesus and make sure that I know he's my savior.

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I'm saved by his grace.

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And so anyway, that's basically what happened.

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and I want to put an exclamation point on that statement you just made, that

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when we discuss a number of these items here, I do believe they're

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critical and they're important, but that aspect of Jesus Christ that

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Yeah,

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that what he did on

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that's right,

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me,

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right.

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everything in the biblical story revolves around that.

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Me too.

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And the reason I bring that up, Steve, is I think sometimes with this topic, we

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can kind of start arguing a few little points one way or the other and forget

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and lose fact of like, hey, these folks still believe that Christ died for

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their sins and he's went to the cross.

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I am okay having discussion, but to remember that.

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I also want to remember the biblical story.

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You know, we're moving towards a new heaven and a new earth and a new creation.

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what we're discussing here are the things between here and there.

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And

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right.

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Is that roughly what we're talking about?

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Completely.

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And I want to put my own exclamation point on the cross, because I know in

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my soul, I mean, the 10 commandments appeal to me because it was something

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solid that would give me some guidance on What's right and what's wrong.

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But I also realized completely that I was a sinner and that there's no

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way that I'm going to save myself.

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And that and the cross, Gethsemane is what really reached me.

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And then the cross and Jesus, you know, his suffering for my sins.

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If it wasn't for Jesus dying on the cross to pay the price for every single sin I've

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ever committed, I would have no hope, and he is everything to me, you know, looking

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to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith, he who believes in him should

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not perish, but have everlasting life.

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So the cross is the center of my life.

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it's the center of everybody that's going to be saved is where, you

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know, we're not saved by our works, but by grace and we're washed from

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our sins in the blood of the lamb.

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and I see that in the book of revelation to a lot of people

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are scared of revelation.

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They think, well, it's scary.

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It's got all these dragons and beasts and plagues and, you know,

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things that are frightening, but there's so much of the cross.

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and the lamb and the blood in the book of Revelation, and it gives

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me, you know, Revelation 1 verse 5 says to him who loved us and washed

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us from our sins in his own blood.

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And so, the idea of we're between here and the end, and then the new earth.

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I totally agree with that.

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And there's going to be trials ahead of us.

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but if we have Jesus, and if we, Stick with him.

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He said, I'm with you always, even to the end of the world.

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the ultimate hope is on the other side of this, there'll be no more

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deaths, sorrow, crying, pain.

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There'll be a new heaven and a new earth.

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we'll get to be with Jesus forever and with his people.

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that's what I'm looking forward to.

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That's what gives me hope.

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yeah, that's exciting.

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That's even what I have out on my Bible here is, Revelation 21,

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22 is that all things made new.

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That's right.

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All right, so we're all on the same page there.

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I want to go to, and I hadn't planned on doing this, but, it's kind of, The

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next good step for us is to just talk about why this topic of eschatology

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or end times is important One of the things I did and I didn't think much

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about it I was reading your book over the weekend and I just put a picture up.

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I said, hey i'm interviewing this guy on monday see am I having questions?

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Well, a few questions came in and a buddy of mine brian from facebook

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says why Is eschatology important?

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And so I think I want us to kind of start this next 30, 45 minutes

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conversation on why is this important?

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Why does anyone need to know more about this topic?

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Yeah, good question.

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And it's interesting.

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On another interview that I was in, Java with Jen, she put a note on Facebook

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before I, we got into the interview and she said, you have any questions?

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And she got a slew of questions.

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few more too.

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We might get to some of these, like what's the Antichrist, Rapture, all

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yeah,

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if we

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that's what she asked too.

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So we might need to do a part two, Tim, maybe a part two.

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So as far as why this topic is important, it's, it gets down

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to the basics of who we are.

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Why we're here, where are we going?

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And, and as you, I've read a little bit about you, you are a coach,

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you know, you coach, leaders, entrepreneurs, business people.

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And of course, anybody that's successful in business, you've

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got to know where you're going.

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you've got to have goals.

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You've got to have that big picture.

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And so for me, for my life, it's very important on a very practical level to

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know Who I am, why I'm here and how we got here because Lucifer rebelled originally

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in heaven, and he was kicked out and what those issues are are important.

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And then he came down to the earth.

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He tempted Eve at the tree and what the issues were that

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he brought up at the tree.

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And she believed the snake.

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She was duped.

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She yielded.

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She took the fruit, gave it to Adam, Adam ate, and that brought sin into humanity.

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And so now we're living in a world of sin.

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And that's what led to the gospel to, to Jesus coming down here,

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being born in Bethlehem, living a

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Holy life paying the price for us on the cross, dying,

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rising again, going to heaven.

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and he said, I'm going to come back again.

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I'm going to come again.

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And so we know that we're living in a sinful world behind us.

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There was a perfect Garden of Eden ahead of us is the new heaven and the new Earth.

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We're in the middle of a battle between good and evil.

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God and Satan, good angels and bad angels, and we're going to eventually

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get into the final scenes of the final conflict between good and evil.

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We need to know what those issues are.

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We need to stand for for Jesus and then we need to have hope that in spite of

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all the problems in this world, you know, whoever gets into the White House in

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November and whatever happens to America as far as the, you know, the moral issues,

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the disintegration of family values.

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Yeah.

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We can see all these things all around us, and yet we don't need to be discouraged.

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By the darkness, because we know that God's control in control, and

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we know he's still on the throne.

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We know that at the end, Jesus is going to come.

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He said, I'm with you always, even to the end of the world, and then there'll

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be a new heaven and a new earth.

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bottom line is to have a comprehensive Understanding of the great controversy

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between Christ and Satan that we are in and how we got into this mess and

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how God's going to solve this problem.

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And that we do have hope that love will win.

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Good will win.

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Jesus will win.

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And there'll be the restitution of all things.

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as it says in Acts 3 verse 21, to me, all of this is very important

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for me to be able to live my life.

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Down here and to be able to talk to people who are struggling and who are hurting

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who may be depressed or potentially suicidal because they see no hope.

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Everything's dark.

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They don't see that God loves them.

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They has a plan for them that Jesus died for them.

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That love is going to win that.

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He has a future in store for them that there's a new heaven and a new earth.

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They have, like you said, I think something like an eternal perspective.

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You know, we need that eternal perspective, that eternal mindset.

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Is part of what you could, you know, the word, the technical term eschatology.

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But to me, I don't use that word a lot.

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It's just really where we are, what's coming and what's going to

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happen and how God's going to win.

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Yeah, kind of a follow up question to that, and it's going to relate to, I've

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got a lot of questions popping in my head.

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What is the most fundamental misunderstanding leads people astray?

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And let me hang that question out there, and I want to add

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a little bit of a layer to it.

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One of the things that bothers me a great deal, Steve, I don't like

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deception, but one of the things that bothers me with what I see on

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the horizon Is using fear, using,

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bad stuff's about to happen, things like that, that that's gotten to where

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that bothers me more than it used to.

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It's kind of one of the reasons maybe I started the deeper study that I did a year

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or so back was because I started seeing a lot of things kept popping up in the

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news and the media about a particular, the dispensational type, approach to this.

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so I say all that to come back to the question, what's the most fundamental

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misunderstanding you see that leads people astray related to this topic?

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There's a lot of misunderstandings.

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I think probably one of the most fundamental misunderstandings,

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which is really a simple Bible truth for Christians.

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We believe Jesus Came.

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He died on a cross.

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He was buried and he rose from the dead and he went to heaven.

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And when he went up in Acts chapter one, the Bible says that he was

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taken up and the cloud received him out of their sight and the disciples

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were there watching him go up.

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And then there were two angels standing by them in white clothes.

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This is Acts chapter one, and the angel said to the disciples, why

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are you gazing up into heaven?

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This same Jesus who?

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Ascended up that you saw him.

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He's going to come back again, just as you saw him go up into heaven.

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And so, to me, it's pretty simple.

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Jesus, the real Jesus died.

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He rose, he went up and he's coming back.

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Now, you would think that would be pretty basic, you know, pretty simple, but.

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There's a lot of misunderstanding about that.

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Some people think he's already come in.

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you know, he's already in the world now.

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He's already ruling.

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He's already here.

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He doesn't need to come back again, literally come down.

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And then, the Jehovah's Witnesses, you know, they believe he's

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already come up in up in heaven.

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Some people think, well, he's, he's already here spiritually.

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and then there's others that believe that when he does come, nobody's gonna know it.

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He's gonna come down invisibly and snatch us up and take us to heaven.

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So there's all kinds of misunderstandings connected to a simple Bible truth that

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Jesus died, was buried, rose, went to heaven, and he is physically, literally,

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bodily, Going to come back down with all the angels and power and great glory

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every I will see him This is a very simple powerful biblical truth and yet a lot of

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misunderstandings about that simple truth

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And I think the thing that I've noticed, and I think I had this in my mindset,

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was this thought of being rescued.

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Or, heaven minded.

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Yeah, the end was Jesus is either kind of going to come down, take

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everybody and we're going to heaven, or, when I die, I'll go to heaven

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and there'll be an ending event.

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But as I read Revelation, it seems as if what's happening, there's

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a new creation that's occurring.

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Is it here on this earth?

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is it?

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In another realm, I think it's a combination of the two.

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That's my thoughts on it.

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and I do think that there is a process that'll be gone through

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that will get to that place.

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one of the things I've noticed, and I went to Bible school for a few years

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and I noticed a lot of people this way.

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really did think that their mindset was they're just punching their

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heaven ticket while they're here.

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And they were just going to heaven.

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That was their thing.

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And that to me seemed like it created quite a bit of confusion because it

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doesn't take that whole bigger story.

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And would you agree with that?

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Yeah, I do and before I read a text in second peter let me respond to the fear

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issue You know, you mentioned, yeah, and I've talked to different people

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about this, and my conviction is that people are afraid of what they don't

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understand, like a little child that's afraid of the dark, they're scared of

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the dark, they think there might be a boogeyman in the closet, because they,

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they're just not, they're not old enough, and they don't understand, there's no

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boogeyman in the closet, and it's, it's dark, because you just flick the switch,

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The light switch, it's electricity.

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and so, but as a child grows older, they, they lose their fear of the

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dark because they understand more.

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And it's the same way with Bible prophecy in the book of Revelation.

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People are afraid of what they don't understand.

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And the more we learn, the more we understand, the fear goes away and

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God doesn't want us to live in fear.

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I mean, Jesus, or what does it say, Paul, I think it's 2nd Timothy 1

Speaker: 00:34:36

verse 7 says, God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power

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and of love and of a sound mind.

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So I think knowledge and understanding takes away fear.

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So now what was your, your second question?

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Did I, Did I miss something?

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Oh, yes.

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Yeah, you had a scripture there you were going

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Yeah, I did.

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So here, about the new heaven and the new earth, second Peter three

Speaker: 00:34:58

verse nine says the Lord is not willing that any should perish, but

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that all should come to repentance.

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And that shows us God's heart.

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He wants to save everybody.

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He loves everybody.

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And then verse 10 says, But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the

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night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, the elements

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shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also, and the works that are therein

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shall be burned up, seeing then that all these things shall be returned.

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Dissolved.

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What manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

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looking for and hastening to the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens

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being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.

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Nevertheless, we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new

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earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

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So to me, I take this at face value.

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just like in the days of Noah, there was a flood and the water came down.

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And the whole world was underwater.

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Sodom and Gomorrah, the fire came down and that was the end of those cities.

Speaker: 00:35:56

these verses say that when the day of the Lord comes, he's going to come and the

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heavens and the earth are going to melt.

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They're all going to, you know, burn up.

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but we don't need to be worried about that because God's going to make

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a new heaven and a new earth and righteousness is going to live there.

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I believe this and I believe that just like there was a Garden of Eden, so

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there's going to be a new Eden, a new garden, a new heaven and a new earth.

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It's going to be real.

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we're going to see it happen and it's going to be an awesome day.

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I mean, absolutely awesome.

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Like when Moses came down from Mount Sinai, that whole mountain was shaking

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and in the days of Noah, the water came down and Noah and his family

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and the animals were in the ark.

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And when Jesus comes back again, nobody's going to miss it.

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It's not going to be a secret event.

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We're not going to wonder, where did all the Christians go?

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It's going to be a big day that the world's going to see.

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And those who are ready, are going to be with Jesus.

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And then when he makes the new heavens and the new earth,

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that's where we're going to live.

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I accept this at face value,

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yeah.

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So, and, but let's go back to that.

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How people live, where the fear comes from.

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I don't know why, just something popped in my mind and, you know, we're right

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around the, Halloween time of year.

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I remember growing up again, down in the Bible belt.

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And there was a church that had what they call tribulation trail

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as a, like a Halloween thing.

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And I remember our kids going and just being terrified.

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Having the heck scared out of them and all of that.

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But the subtitle to your book that I read in time delusions, there's a

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few things you bring up these are a few things that came up in question.

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So I'm going to mention these Steve, I know this is going to be hard, but

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I would love for us to just maybe say quickly, but I want to hit these sub

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items because you kind of in your subtitle gave a lot of the hot button items

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right?

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The rapture, the antichrist, Israel, and of course the end of the world.

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But those three are ones that are really, let's just go ahead.

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Whoever wrote the subtitle here, obviously you reached out and said,

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okay, this is what people, this is going to get people's attention.

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Right.

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me just put those out.

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Cause I do have a couple of questions.

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I mean, someone asked about the rapture.

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someone mentioned about the antichrist or a antichrist, the antichrist spirit.

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There's Marcus Watson too.

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He's a pastor by the way, down in California.

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do you, what do you want to share about any of that?

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Yeah.

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And let me, let me just quickly, if you don't mind, I've got a

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number of my books here that we've been promoting on these podcasts.

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Approaching Armageddon is a simple book.

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I call it Prophecy 101.

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It doesn't deal with all that information.

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It just talks about how we can trust the Bible, the signs of the times

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Jesus is coming and, and good will win.

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So when we get into end time delusions, this one deals more

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with the different conflicting.

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Interpretations of prophecy right now.

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We have another little book called United States in Bible Prophecy that gives my

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understanding of the role of America.

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And by the way, we're offering these three books for free to your callers.

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People that are watching this, they want to call White Horse Media and

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say, can I have those books for free?

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The first 10 callers get the free books because we have a book fund.

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People have donated that and we want to give Give a lot of these away.

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So when it comes to end time delusions, that's the book that

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deals with the three lenses.

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and those three lenses are basically the Preterist view that says when you

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read the book of Revelation, almost all of that happened in the time of Nero.

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Way back in the time of the 1st century.

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It's all just a 1st century book.

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That's preterism.

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And then there's, that's one lens, another glass people, people wear

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these glasses, which is futurism.

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And futurism pretty much says that the majority of the book of Revelation is

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all, in the head of us after we're gone.

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That's futurism.

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And then there's historicism, which is the third set of glasses.

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People read the Bible through the historicist eyes, which says that

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prophecy has been fulfilled in the past.

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It's been going on down throughout history, and it's

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going to climax at the end.

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those are the glasses that I subscribed to.

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That was basically the Protestant view.

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So the futurist eschatology basically says We're all going to disappear

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and there's going to be seven years of tribulation during that time.

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The temple will be rebuilt.

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The antichrist will come.

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He'll be one charismatic man.

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He will eventually gather the nations against the Jews, which

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will be the battle of Armageddon.

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And then Jesus will come and conquer him and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

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That's essentially.

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The futurist doctrine, which is also interwoven with dispensationalism.

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I don't believe that that's that sequence.

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I compare it to the rabbis having their sequence that the Messiah is

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going to come, conquer the Romans, sit on the throne, rule from Jerusalem.

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It's very, you know, their, their sequences has many

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parallels to the rabbi sequence.

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And so my book deals with, well, what does the Bible say about the rapture?

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What does it say about the tribulation?

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What does it say about the antichrist?

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What does it say about, about Israel?

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And it goes into all those details.

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And I don't know if, you know, how I can, do you want me to try to give you the,

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the three minute version of each, each topic, rapture, antichrist into the world?

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I think, let's do that because correct me if I'm wrong.

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Maybe it's my observation view.

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Seems to be extremely popular.

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Well, yeah.

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to have permeated.

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And I know the history of it back to the mid 1800s.

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If you want to say a word or two and,

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Sure.

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Lindsay's book and the left behind have just really put it into our culture.

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Yeah.

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culture period.

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And so I think that's the one that.

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probably needs to have the most time spent because it's the

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one that bothers me the most.

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And so now having said that, correct me if I'm wrong or why, or is it as many

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people as I think, do we have any numbers

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Oh, yeah.

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what do you

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Well, I don't know.

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We don't have numbers, but it's a lot.

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And in my book, I have a chapter called the path of the virus.

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And what it does, if you've read that it traces this sequence of rapture,

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seven years, future Antichrist.

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Rebuilt Temple, Armageddon Against the Jews, that sequence really gained

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steam in the early 1800s with, Edward Irving and then John Nelson Darby.

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And he and Darby put those ideas into the, which will actually Schofield put,

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put Darby's ideas into the Schofield reference Bible, which became one of

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the most popular footnoted Bibles in the early 1900s, which then in America,

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then worked its way into the seminaries, especially doubt the Dallas Theological

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Seminary, how Lindsay was a graduate of the Dallas Theological Seminary.

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He incorporated those ideas, put them into the late great planet earth.

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Which was a, nonfiction book.

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And then Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins teamed up and made it into

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a series of fictitious novels, which is the Left Behind series.

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And it has become the dominant view that most people believe in.

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They just think, you know, they accept it.

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They don't really look carefully at the texts of what the Bible actually says.

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But, you know, so that's the, that's the theory.

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as far as the rapture, you know, that's kind of like the Kingpin that gets the

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sequence started and people interpret second or first Thessalonians four

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where it says will be caught up and first Corinthians 15 where Paul says

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in the moment in the twinkling of an eye and Jesus says Matthew 24 he talks

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about two are in the field one's taken one's left and they interpret these

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verses to mean Disappearing Christians.

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We're all just going to vanish the rapture.

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We're going to be gone.

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The world's going to wake up and wonder where did they all go?

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And that'll be the beginning of the seven years.

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But when you look at those verses carefully, 1st Thessalonians 4, when

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we're caught up, it says Jesus is going to come down from heaven with a

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shout, with a voice, with a trumpet.

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there's a resurrection and we're caught up.

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It says nothing about disappearing Christians.

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This is the second coming of Christ.

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It's a very noisy, loud verse where Jesus comes back.

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Same with the first Corinthians 15, where Paul says, in a moment in the

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twinkling of an eye, when you keep reading, it says at the last trumpet

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for the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised, will be changed.

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This is a big day.

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It's not.

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It's not.

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It's not a blinking day where people just wonder where'd all the Christians go.

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That's not what the context is showing.

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And Matthew 24, when Jesus said, two are in the field, one's taken, one's left.

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You look at the whole context.

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He, Jesus just got done talking about Noah's day.

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He said, as it was in Noah's day, it's going to be the same.

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When I come, they were eating, drinking, marrying, giving and marriage

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until the day Noah entered the ark.

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And then the flood came and took them all away.

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And then he said, so shall the coming of the son of man be.

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then two are.

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in the field.

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One's taken, one's left.

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So when is then then is at the second coming, that's going to be just as

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big and catastrophic like it was in the days of Noah, which is what second

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Peter said when the day of the Lord comes, the heavens are going to pass

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away, the earth's going to all that.

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So my point is, when you really look carefully at the verses that

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are used to support the rapture theory, it just doesn't hold water.

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So,

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Yeah,

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no rapture, not in the Bible.

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no secret rapture or or or disappearing Christians rapture.

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We are going to be caught up.

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Paul says we shall be caught up and I certainly believe that we're going

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to be caught up just like Jesus was taken up, but he didn't disappear.

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He was taken up and we're going to be caught up.

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Caught up at the visible loud second coming of Christ.

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It's interesting that Billy Graham, one of the most respected

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Christians has ever lived.

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He wrote a book called answers to life's problems on page 309.

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I believe it is.

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He referred to 1st Thessalonians 4 and he said, this is the 2nd coming.

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This is the second coming of Christ.

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It's not a disappearing Christians seven years before the second coming.

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So this whole structure of beliefs is really just not biblical.

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And if I could just kind of shift quickly to the topic of the Antichrist.

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We have rapture, tribulation, Antichrist and Israel.

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Antichrist, and Israel.

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I want to make one comment about Rapture because this comes up often,

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and I don't even know if we need to comment, but if that secret Rapture

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doesn't exist, then the people that get in arguments over pre mid post,

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That's right.

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a mute point too, right?

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Exactly.

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and then they'll still go back into the, well, are you a pre post middle?

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Right.

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I'm

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Yeah.

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and my book brings all this out that the argument between pre trib, mid

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trib, post trib is all based on the assumption that there's a seven year trib.

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So, pre trib is beginning of the seven years do we go up, middle of the seven

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years do we go up, end of the seven years do we go up, when do we go up,

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but the whole thing is based on the assumption that there's a seven year

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tribulation at all described in the Bible.

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And the fact is, you can read from Genesis to Revelation,

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you can look in a concordance.

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I've got my concordance in the back of this bible.

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There is no seven year tribulation in the bible.

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Tribulation is there great tribulations there, but seven year tribulation

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It's gone and it's really based on a misinterpretation of daniel 9 27, which

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describes the seven year period and it says He will confirm the covenant

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with many for one week, which day for years, seven years, and then it says

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he will cause the sacrifice to cease.

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And so people interpret this to mean he's the antichrist.

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He's gonna make a covenant with the Jews.

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He's gonna stop the sacrifices of the rebuilt temple.

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That's the way they interpret it.

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But the text says nothing like that.

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There's no Antichrist in Daniel 9, 27.

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There's no rebuilt temple in Daniel 9, 27.

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the context is it's the 70th week after the 69th week.

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And the previous two verses talk about the Messiah.

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It's all about the Messiah and the Messiah.

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He, the Messiah is the one.

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Who confirmed the covenant, the new covenant with his disciples.

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Jesus said, this is my blood of the new covenant shed for many for the forgiveness

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of sins, quoting Daniel 9 27 and after 3.

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5 years in the middle of the seven years, he caused the sacrifice to

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cease by his death on the cross.

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Matthew Henry is one of the most famous.

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Bible commentaries in Christian history.

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And if you go online, you can just open up and say, what did

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Matthew Henry say about Daniel 927?

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He didn't say it applied to the antichrist to rebuild temple or

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future seven years of tribulation.

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He said he is Jesus Christ and he caused the sacrifice to

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cease by his death on the cross.

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So people are picking up Daniel 927, applying it to seven years of tribulation,

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moving it down to the end of time.

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Believing in a rapture at the beginning of the seven years and the whole thing, you

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know It's just like you said when you're reading left behind you realized this is

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just a lot of fiction With a few bible verses in there and that's the same way

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futurism is it's a phony eschatology It's not based on scripture and that's what

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end time delusions really is all about is showing is proving that From the Bible.

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Yeah, you do a great job.

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I think if there's anyone that has recognized that they are steeped or

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they're full of, or whatever words they want to use, some of these words,

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you know, rapture and when are they going to rebuild that temple so that

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that's the clock starts and all this kind of stuff, you do a great job of

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giving history and picking those apart, which then I do want to, I do We had

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Antichrist, but we also have Israel.

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So I don't know if this is a good time to bring up Israel because

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we're in, in the news today

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I know

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and all my life, truthfully, Israel has been in the news.

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What we'll call the nation, not the nation of Israel biblical, but the nation of

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Israel, like the nation of, South Africa, the nation of whatever has been in the

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news since, as far as I can remember.

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And there is a thought by a lot of Christians that all the Jews and

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with your Jewish background, this is fascinating to have this conversation,

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that they all need to come back there so that a certain percentage of them

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be destroyed around the end of time.

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That's a little bit of my sarcasm coming out, but, Israel.

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What are we getting wrong about Israel in our current dispensationalism?

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a lot.

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We're getting a lot wrong and I definitely and I pray for the people in Lebanon.

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I pray for the people in Israel and the Gaza Strip.

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The whole thing is a mess.

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It's a terrible, terrible, terrible crisis and there's a lot of Bible verses about.

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war nation rising against nation that we can apply to what's happening over there.

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But when it comes to the topic of Israel in Bible prophecy, and just in

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a nutshell, and my book goes into a lot of this, Paul in the New Testament.

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Describe actually describes two Israels.

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Just like we have two eyes.

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We all have two eyes.

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We have two ears.

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Paul describes not just one Israel, two Israels in Romans nine six.

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He said they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

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First Corinthians 10 18.

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He describes Israel after the flesh.

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And then in Galatians 6, 16, he describes the Israel of

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God that is centered in Jesus.

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And in a nutshell, as I mentioned, I was Jewish.

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And I consider myself now part of Israel back then, but I

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was Israel after the flesh.

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I was just the natural descendant of Abraham, but I had no real spiritual life.

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So when I got on my knees when I was 20 years old and accepted Jesus into my

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heart and the Holy Spirit came into my life, then I became, I was born again

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and I became part of the Israel of God.

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And Paul is very clear in Galatians chapter 3 and chapter 6 that the

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Israel of God is made up of Jewish people who believe in Jesus.

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non Jewish people who believe in Jesus.

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They're all part of the Israel of God.

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And when you read the book of Revelation, that is the Israel.

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That is the apocalyptic center of the storm.

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It's the people of God.

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They're also called the saints.

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They're the people that are following Jesus.

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They follow the lamb wherever he goes.

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And so.

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People, what people are doing is they're looking at Israel after the flesh.

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They're looking at the Jewish state and they're making the Jewish state

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the center of the, of the end times.

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And that's a mistake.

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It's not scriptural.

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It's not in the book of revelation.

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Now they're reading certain old Testament texts, which lead them in that direction.

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But they're not looking at all the New Testament verses

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in the Book of Revelation.

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And it's similar to what the rabbis did.

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The rabbis read the Old Testament text and they said the Messiah is going to

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conquer the Romans and exalt the Jews.

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And people are today developing a similar thinking, but they're not

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filtering everything through Christ.

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Jesus is very clear that, in John chapter 8, John the Baptist is clear

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in Matthew chapter 3, John the Baptist told a whole group of Jewish leaders.

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He said, don't think you can say to yourself, we have Abraham as our

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father, because God can raise up.

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Children to Abraham from these stones.

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And he said, the axis laid to the root of the tree.

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And if the tree does not bear fruit, it's cut down and thrown into fire.

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there's no new Testament support for the idea that just because a

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person is a physical Jew or the state of Israel, or the Jewish state

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that that they have a claim to, to God's protection in the end times.

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People are misreading this.

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The book of Revelation says nothing about earthly Jerusalem.

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It's all the heavenly Jerusalem.

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Every single reference to Jerusalem in the book of Revelation.

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John says, I saw the new Jerusalem coming down from heaven like a

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bride adorned for her husband.

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And That's our hope.

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So bottom line is, Gentiles and Jews who believe in Jesus

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become part of the Israel of God.

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They're the ones that are going to be under assault by

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the devil in the final days.

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And if we, trust the Lord and he's with us and we believe in him, we follow his word.

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Our home is the new Jerusalem and the earthly Jerusalem has no role in

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the book of revelation, not one text.

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It's just like seven years of tribulation, not one text disappearing Christians,

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not one text, the Jewish state in the book of revelation, not one text.

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it's a mammoth, system.

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of illusion and delusion.

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Yeah, and and so I Just to kind of say this for someone listening

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in there's no reason a Christian to start to keep running around

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looking for the red heifer They're

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That's right.

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for the temple and all that just stop it.

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All right, so we've hit two out of the big three

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Yeah, we got to get the other one.

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This next one, Antichrist, the Antichrist, Antichrist spirit.

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let's go ahead and bust that one up a little bit.

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The Antichrist, Steve, what do you want to say about that?

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Yeah.

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Well, the word Antichrist is used five times in the New Testament.

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First and second John refers to, the spirit of Antichrist or John

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said there are many Antichrists.

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he said they went out from us, 1st John 2, 18 and 19, showing that these many

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Antichrists were coming out of the church.

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but then John said, but they are not of us.

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They came out from us, but they're not of us.

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So there's no support in 1st and 2nd John for one man.

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being the Antichrist.

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Now, the prophecies of Daniel Revelation do talk about a little

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horn that would rise out of the fourth beast, which was the Roman Empire.

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It does talk about, the man of sin Paul described in second Thessalonians

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two coming from the falling away.

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It describes this beast in Revelation 13.

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It describes the harlot woman riding upon a seven headed beast in Revelation 17.

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So there's all these symbolisms of something that is Antichrist.

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During the time of the 1500s, when Martin Luther first started reading a Bible,

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got a hold of a Bible, first book off the printing press was a Bible, and he began

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to read the Bible and look at the church, look at the Bible, looked at the church,

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he realized that the church that he was part of was not following scripture,

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and he tried to reform the church.

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And he started spreading the knowledge of scripture and then the church, the

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head, the leadership in Rome said, if you don't turn away from your crazy ideas,

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we're going to burn you at the stake.

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And Luther said, we'll see about that.

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And so that resulted in the protestant reformation.

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And there's a famous saying that in the time of the Reformation, the

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Protestants discovered Jesus Christ and they discovered Antichrist.

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And it's no secret that if you go back 400 years and go back to Luther, the Lutheran

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Church, Wesley, the Methodist Church, Calvin, the Presbyterian Church, Spurgeon,

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the great Baptist pastor in London, it's no secret that they all understood Jesus.

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The Antichrist of Prophecy to be the Roman Catholic Church system

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centered in the false authority of the Pope, but that now that doesn't

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mean that all Catholics are evil

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But it does mean that there's a system that is pinpointed in

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prophecy as being Antichrist.

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And then what happened was the Catholic Church.

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Countered that with the counter reformation and they commissioned the

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Jesuit to create different ideas the preterist idea It all happened in the

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past Nero was the Antichrist in that view and then the futurist idea is that

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the Antichrist is coming way in the future and then Darby and Schofield They,

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you know, adapted this idea and made it ultimately, and then you get to how

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Lindsay left behind that the Antichrist is one man who shows up after we're gone.

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But that is not Protestant theology.

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It's not the original Baptist teaching or the Lutherans or the Methodist.

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They believe that the Antichrist was a system centered in a man.

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That was leading people away from Jesus Christ and the gospel and

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grace sola scriptura, only the Bible, only grace, only faith.

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That was the Protestant, motto and their cry, their battle cry.

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So all this history is in end time delusions, as you know.

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And so to me, it's a battle between antichrist

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Very similar to, and you do a good job of saying this, we're saying anything

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against, we'll call it the Jewish people, and we're also not saying

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anything against Catholics in general.

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It's the leadership.

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It's the papal Rome.

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right.

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I think the thing, I have said this often here.

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We, our current culture, we're a product of that Greco Roman system that

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system is playing into a lot of what's rising up that, that we're seeing here.

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I believe that.

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We're, I'm watching our time here and we are really pressed.

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you've studied Revelation quite a bit, and I've recently gone through

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a study of Revelation in a way that I never had up to that point.

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What do people need to know about that book, especially

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people that have avoided it?

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while you're thinking about that, let me add, there's something else that

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came in from Marcus that asked the question, again, this guy, he's a pastor

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too, went to Fuller Seminary down in California, a fellow podcaster also, it

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might be a good conversation for you.

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Marcus wanted to know, why do you think John wrote Revelation?

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when there's a lot of things that revolve around the date of the writing of some of

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the New Testament, especially as it starts going into that AD 70 type scenario.

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So maybe those two things, if you could hit those quickly and then talk about

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do we need to know about Revelation?

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Wow.

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You

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We got to have a part too, Tim.

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So yeah, John wrote the book of 70 AD was when Jerusalem was destroyed.

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John, according to the most accurate and majority of historical understandings,

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wrote the book around 96 AD he wrote the book because he had a vision on

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the Island of Patmos and Revelation chapter one, where Jesus came to him

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in all of his glory and said, I want you to write down what I'm telling you.

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So that's why he wrote the book.

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There's many things in the book of Revelation that we need to understand.

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Number one, Jesus is the Lord.

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He's the, he's our great high priest in heaven.

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He's coming back again.

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He's going to win in the battle between good and evil.

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And he wants us to be, to overcome by the blood of the lamb and by the word

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of our testimony, Revelation 12, 11, he wants us to hold on and, and trust him.

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And no matter what happens, he's going to bring us through.

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So all those things are in Revelation.

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I'd like to just kind of plant a seed, maybe.

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You know, what you said, what should we know about Revelation?

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And there's so many other things, but Revelation 13 verse 11 says, I saw

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another beast coming up out of the earth.

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He had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

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I've written a whole book on this called the United States in Bible prophecy.

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This book will give away for free to your, At least the first 10 callers

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and maybe more who call our office.

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But I build the case in this book that this verse, a beast, according

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to Daniel, seven is a nation, just like Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

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This beast comes up out of the earth, which applies to a.

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sparsely populated area in contrast with the sea, which represents lots

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of people where Babylon, Persia and Greece came up, comes up out of

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the earth down near the end times.

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He has 2 horns, indicating a separation of power.

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These horns have no crowns, which, like the 1st beast in chapter 13

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has crowns on his horns, indicating this beast is not ruled by.

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Kingly power.

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And then it's two horns like a lamb.

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It has Christian characteristics.

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And Jesus also said, give to Caesar what is Caesar's gift to God.

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What is God's separating the things of government from religion, that

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government is not to force people to become a certain religion.

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And then it says, and he spoke as a dragon and I build my case.

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And I did this at the Pentagon.

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I was invited to speak at the Pentagon in 2007, one of the most exciting experiences

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of my life, and I gave a Bible study with PowerPoint slides to a group of people.

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And I built my case that the only nation on earth that fits this prophecy

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is the United States of America.

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And that America is in a transition stage from the lamb to the dragon.

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And eventually.

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America is going to speak like a dragon, but the lamb is going to win because

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he's king of kings and lord of lords, and we're all in a battle between the dragon

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and the lamb between satan and Jesus.

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I believe it's very important as we're getting close to the elections that

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America has a place in Bible prophecy.

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We are a mighty nation that still has religious freedom.

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That has Christian principles, but these principles are going to break

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down and eventually, America is going to speak like a dragon, but Jesus is

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going to come and conquer the dragon and deliver those who follow the lamb.

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So I think that's important for us to know.

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Yeah, that is interesting.

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I've actually got to get that book because I'm still having trouble making that.

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I'm having trouble seeing that as America, but.

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I will study that.

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So I appreciate you bringing that up.

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And love that you've been able to discuss this in some powerful circles.

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So big question.

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I do want to ask what.

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Does the average Christian that's listened in with something we've hit

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pretty quickly, what do they need to do?

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All right.

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So let's just say the United States is in revelation and we know we've

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heard about, you know, the rapture Antichrist Israel and how we've

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got some delusions about that.

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they need to read your book because you do a great job of really picking that apart

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even more, but what do they need to do?

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Well, yeah, we all need to humble ourselves.

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We need to confess the sins that we're aware of to Jesus, our pride,

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whatever else we're dealing with.

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and lay those sins on Christ, who died on the cross for every sin that we've

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ever committed, who loves us no matter what, who died and rose from the dead,

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who went to heaven and who's coming back.

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And so we need to give our lives to Jesus, confess our sins, recommit

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to following the Bible, every word that comes from the mouth of God

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and to being his true followers.

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In these final days that stand up for him and don't buckle in the midst

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of all the pressures of the world that are pulling us away from Jesus.

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So that's really the bottom line and try to put aside preconceived

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opinions and study the Bible.

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I do believe that my books are valuable to help people study the Bible.

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White Horse Media has a lot of fantastic resources, but our goal

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is not to give people our own ideas.

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Our goal is to direct people to the word of God.

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So they study the word of God.

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You know, Jesus said, those who hear my words and do them are like a wise

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man who built his house on the rock.

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And when the rain comes, the storms hit and the floods, Blow that house will

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stand because it's on the rock and those who hear my words, but don't do them

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They're like a foolish man who builds his house on the sand And when the rain

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comes down the storm hits the floods beat against that house It's going to

Speaker: 01:05:35

fall because it's on the sand and so bottom line What we need to do is we

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need to build on jesus and the rock and be prepared to stand no matter what

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Great, great finish.

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and that helps us avoid what the word delusions here.

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I love

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Yes

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delusions there.

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And I will say that there, there's great information in this book specifically

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because that's the one I read.

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That caused me to want to do additional study.

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And I think there's value in that.

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Steve, two quick questions as we wrap up here, cause I'm watching our time.

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You mentioned that you've got some resources that people can get.

Speaker: 01:06:11

So now if you can maybe tell people exactly where to go to find you, to

Speaker: 01:06:16

get your information, your books, we'll include it in the links to

Speaker: 01:06:20

people that are watching the video.

Speaker: 01:06:21

They'll be able to see it, but people listening on the audio, they may

Speaker: 01:06:24

need the information to be, audible.

Speaker: 01:06:26

So, where can people find you and get your information?

Speaker: 01:06:29

Yeah, white horse media.

Speaker: 01:06:30

That's what the name of our ministry.

Speaker: 01:06:32

We pick the name because Jesus is coming in Revelation 19.

Speaker: 01:06:35

It's described on a white horse.

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So we're the white horse people.

Speaker: 01:06:39

And Jesus is the rider on the horse.

Speaker: 01:06:40

He's the center of everything we do.

Speaker: 01:06:42

So white horse media dot com is our main website.

Speaker: 01:06:46

We have a YouTube channel, just go to YouTube and type in white horse media.

Speaker: 01:06:49

You'll find a lot.

Speaker: 01:06:50

And we have a whole new video series coming out called America and the dragon

Speaker: 01:06:55

that goes right through revelation 1311.

Speaker: 01:06:57

and we have these books that we're offering first 10 callers for free and

Speaker: 01:07:01

maybe 11 or 12, you know, we have a fund people have donated some money for this.

Speaker: 01:07:06

So we have a little book, American prophecy, United States and prophecy and

Speaker: 01:07:09

time delusions and approaching Armageddon.

Speaker: 01:07:11

These are great resources.

Speaker: 01:07:13

We also have a Bible school.

Speaker: 01:07:14

Whitehorsemediabibleschool.

Speaker: 01:07:16

com.

Speaker: 01:07:17

It's a free online Bible school.

Speaker: 01:07:19

So we're on a lot of places.

Speaker: 01:07:22

People can find us.

Speaker: 01:07:23

They can call.

Speaker: 01:07:23

We have a toll free number, 878 Bible, 878 Bible.

Speaker: 01:07:29

Very good.

Speaker: 01:07:30

We'll make sure we include that, and I appreciate you making

Speaker: 01:07:32

those resources available.

Speaker: 01:07:33

I know that you said this End Time Delusions is not necessarily the 101.

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I actually think it's written, though, still in a language that anybody

Speaker: 01:07:44

gather because of the history and some of the things you give there.

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So, uh, you know, it wasn't like a deep scholarly paper, I guess, is one of the

Speaker: 01:07:51

Good.

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I'm glad you feel that way.

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Yeah,

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Yeah, I think approaching Armageddon is Prophecy 101.

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Maybe End Time Delusions is maybe Prophecy 5.

Speaker: 01:08:01

0.

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I have some other books, which are Prophecy 10.

Speaker: 01:08:03

0.

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You know, they're more involved, but we start where people are

Speaker: 01:08:07

at and we lead them along.

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But I try to write in a simple way that anybody can understand.

Speaker: 01:08:12

yeah, we just, we just need to get people stop to stop chasing after the

Speaker: 01:08:15

red heifers is what we really need to do.

Speaker: 01:08:17

So anyway, hey, Steve, we are seek go create those three words.

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to allow you to choose one of those over the other two seek

Speaker: 01:08:25

go create that's our title.

Speaker: 01:08:27

So which word?

Speaker: 01:08:28

Don't overthink it.

Speaker: 01:08:29

Which word do you choose and why?

Speaker: 01:08:32

Yeah, create, Psalm 5110, you probably know this, David said,

Speaker: 01:08:38

create in me a clean heart, oh God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Speaker: 01:08:45

So I like that verse.

Speaker: 01:08:47

I like all of them.

Speaker: 01:08:48

I like seek and you will find.

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I like go into all the world and preach the gospel.

Speaker: 01:08:53

But if I picked one right now, it would be create in me a clean heart.

Speaker: 01:08:59

Excellent.

Speaker: 01:08:59

Thank you for doing that.

Speaker: 01:09:00

Steve, I appreciate you taking the time to be here.

Speaker: 01:09:03

and pressing people to think more about it, cut through some of

Speaker: 01:09:08

the delusions and illusions and the deception that's out there.

Speaker: 01:09:12

get to a place where they've got some resources they could study.

Speaker: 01:09:15

But really, I love what you said to study it themselves,

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That's right.

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and, and study it out.

Speaker: 01:09:21

So I appreciate that.

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I just want to honor you for doing that.

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Thank you for being a guest.

Speaker: 01:09:25

Thank you for this conversation.

Speaker: 01:09:27

Could have talked for another hour or so or longer, but, I think

Speaker: 01:09:31

we've gotten people thinking, and maybe we'll look at a, a part two.

Speaker: 01:09:34

At some point we're, we're seek, go create here.

Speaker: 01:09:37

We've got new episodes every Monday.

Speaker: 01:09:38

On YouTube and all the podcast platforms until next time, continue

Speaker: 01:09:44

being all that you were created to be.