Overcoming Life’s Hardships: Daryl Potter’s Lessons from Job & Ecclesiastes

Daryl Potter: 00:00:00

You won't get a big enough paycheck, you won't get a good

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enough spouse, you won't, get a final

degree that will make you happy.

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You won't drive the car that after a

month isn't gonna feel like a used car.

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the, that's how the

world is made on purpose.

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the Bible is there to teach us how

to live well despite and not expect

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miraculous cures to everything.

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Because if we got everything.

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We probably wouldn't reach out to God.

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Tim Winders: What do a rural library,

a boy on a bike in the ancient wisdom

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of job and Ecclesiastes have in common?

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Today's guest, Darryl Potter, is a writer

who brings biblical truth to life through

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story from historical fiction about

the rise of Herod to deeply personal

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reflections on grief and meaning.

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Darrell weaves together history,

theology, and memoir in a way

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that challenges and inspires.

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in this episode of Seek Go

Create the leadership journey.

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We talk about the power of story,

the raw honesty of job, the quiet

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wisdom of Ecclesiastes, and what it

means to live well in a broken world.

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Darryl, welcome to Seek, go Create.

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Daryl Potter: Tim, it's

fantastic to chat with you.

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Tim Winders: Yeah, it's

great to be with you too.

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are you in Canada?

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Did I read that right?

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Daryl Potter: I'm in a suburb of

Toronto, so, fairly recognizable

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area of Canada, I think for.

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Tim Winders: Yeah, it is.

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I'm just outside of Atlanta right

now, and this is for the audience

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that might be with us every week.

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I am not anti-American.

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I had a three part series

with a guest from Canada.

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Then I did some solo episodes.

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So I've been avoiding Americans

and it's not intentional, so

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please no one hold that against me.

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It's just, man, I've had a lot

of really cool Canadian guests

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come across my desk and you being

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Daryl Potter: California, so I'm not,

unfamiliar with, the American experience.

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Tim Winders: We may get into

that as part of your journey.

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Darrell, let me jump into, my first

question that I like to get started with.

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Would you rather answer what

do you do or who are you?

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Pick it and go ahead and start answering.

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Daryl Potter: I will go with, who

are you because it's dangerous

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and, and you could go six hours and

not complete, something like that.

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but, one, one, lens on that question might

be, I'm someone who loves blank paper.

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a fair bit of autonomy and agency

in how I proceed and people, give

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me, give me those three together.

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Now I'm a bit of an introvert by nature.

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I think all writers are, to a degree.

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So I like my time alone,

but, I can do almost any job.

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I'm working, in a bank now.

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But, as you've probably read a little bit

in, your reading so far, lots of jobs, but

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that's the common thread I like to create.

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I like to be left alone to create

even in a corporate context.

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And I like working with people.

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Tim Winders: Hmm, that's cool.

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'cause that really speaks

to a lot of things.

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Some of those are similar for

me except for most of my life.

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I really have gotten energy from

being around people in groups as I've

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kind of ventured into my sixties.

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I've gotten a little bit more.

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I'll call it introspective and just kind

of wanting to sit with my thoughts, which

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I think a lot of people are uncomfortable

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with that.

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and it is kind of fascinating.

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Daryl Potter: Inter introspective

might be, actually, I use the word

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introverted, but I think I might just

adopt your, that's a better I word.

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I think maybe to describe me,

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Tim Winders: I, and you know

what, I bet as a writer, words

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are important to you, aren't they?

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Daryl Potter: words are important and

the observation process is important.

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It's a bit of a stereotype in

the writing community that put

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a writer at a party and he's.

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Greater than 50% odds, he's just

gonna stand in the corner and watch.

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and it's not so mercenary as taking

notes for the next book, but there is

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a part of the brain that just always

is fascinated by how things work

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Tim Winders: well,

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Daryl Potter: observes it.

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Tim Winders: One of the things from

just looking at you and I, and I

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want to go ahead and start this.

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I think I sort of mentioned it

in the little intro that I did,

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but storyteller would be a word

that I think fits well for you.

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I've sort of been calling myself that

a little bit and I think I've been

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hesitant to own it, but I think there

is something to be said with that.

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So there's storyteller.

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you are writing both fiction and

nonfiction, which is a lot of people

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would say, this is my way of saying it.

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Pick one or the other

and stay in that lane.

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Right?

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so tell me about those three

words, storyteller and then

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fiction and nonfiction.

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Daryl Potter: Yeah.

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So I think first of all,

we're story creatures.

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We remember story.

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you can have facts all day long,

but we only make meaning when

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it's given a context or when

it's given, given a narrative.

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you know, your, your, your sports

enthusiast remembers so many stats,

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but they're, they're often stitched

together with favorite teams, favorite

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players and and how that season

went and the effect it had on them.

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Like, so I, even in the banking

context, I've been 34 years with,

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one of Canada's largest banks.

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Just about every type of job you

can imagine, corporate, HR and

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branches and wealth and, and, IT and

product management and operations,

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margin management, whatever.

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I don't even have a commerce degree.

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I've got a more literary oriented

background, but where I have fit

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is that I can tell the stories.

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the finance guy or the IT guy or the

operations guy has needs and drivers

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that I can intellectually understand

to the degree that I need to.

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But what I can do that they can't is tell

the story that results in staffing up or

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getting a project approved or whatever.

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So getting back to your fiction,

nonfiction, to me it's still all story.

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So my nonfiction, so

far has been historical.

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The next, novel, which is

through first round editing

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is moving into magic realism.

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but the historical fiction is

telling stories from history.

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But just like sci-fi typically isn't

actually about space wars or aliens or

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whatever, it's typically about something

political or economic going on right now.

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similarly historical fiction.

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I think when it's well done,

it doesn't feel like your

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history class in high school.

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instead, it brings to life an era,

in my particular case, their first

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and second century BC Middle East.

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And it's fascinating.

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The parallels to today, sorry, first

and second century, before Christ,

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middle East, and, the nonfiction is, is

very different, more personally driven.

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Two very tough books from about a

thousand BC that are in the Christian

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Bible that I wanted to explore.

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But the material that's largely

available to explore it is really dense,

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really academic, hard to understand.

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And then once you understand what

you're saying, it's like, yeah, but

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so what, it's, it's almost like,

literary schools, you know, debating

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with each other in subtle ways.

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and so that's why I've mixed the

commentary on those with memoir to try

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to stitch it to my narrative, which

isn't everybody's narrative, of course,

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but at least it gives a 21st century

anchor to interpret some of the things

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that are trying to be brought across.

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So to me, it's all the same thing.

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It's still white paper and

communication with people.

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Tim Winders: I think we need to bring

that perspective of your story, your

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personal story, and your journey in

just a moment, because I think it's

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significant with, books of the Bible

that you've chosen to go into depth when

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you know Joe Ecclesiastes and it looks

like your next one is the Song of Songs.

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So, that's, you're kinda hanging

out in a section of the Bible that

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not a lot of people hang out there.

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Daryl Potter: Yeah.

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Tim Winders: I wanted to mention one

thing though, when it is something

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triggered in me when you were talking

about being in the banking world.

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But yet being a storyteller, and I

know a lot of people are in their

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minds going, whoa, does not compute.

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We've got a lot of business

leaders that listen in.

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A lot of people with spiritual

background and all, but a lot of

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people have trouble with that.

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And I wanted to say, this is

kind of fresh in my mind, you'll

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probably get a kick out of this.

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in our, in my role as COO, now we're in

the process of doing a manufacturing.

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We we're starting a manufacturing

armor or company here in the United

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States, which is fascinating.

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It's been kind of fun.

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So we're going through the

banking process, we're talking

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to a few bankers, and I had one

recently request a business plan.

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I've been in business

for all, all my years.

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there's traditional business plans.

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But I told him, I kind of blurted

it out without thinking it.

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I said, okay, I'll put together my

business plan for you, but just know

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it's gonna be more of our story.

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That's exactly what I did.

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I wrote this business plan, and when

I looked at it, it has some numbers

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in it, but it's not like heavy.

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They could look at the projections.

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we've given them all of our numbers,

but I told the story of how we've

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gotten to where we are and the story

of where we believe we're going

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with all of our people, our leaders

we're attracting and all that.

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And you know what, I'm kind of

pleased with how it turned out.

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So as a banker, I know you may not

be a funding person for, you know,

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manufacturing the guy looked at

it and said, man, this is great.

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Perfect.

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Thank you.

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Daryl Potter: Yeah,

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Tim Winders: I do think that's powerful.

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I think everybody needs to consider

being a storyteller in their own way.

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Would you agree with that?

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Daryl Potter: A hundred percent.

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I can remember a, for confidentiality

reasons, I can't, always, you know,

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explain the project in detail, but

I can remember one project I wanted

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to spend over a hundred million

dollars That's not a small thing at

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the bank to try to get approval on.

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it had political and other implications

as well, and we'd done business case work.

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So you still gotta do the math.

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Even if you're telling a story,

you still gotta do the math.

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We did business case work to such a

degree that one of my analysts was

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in dialogue with Stats Canada, with,

federal government, explaining to them

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how they got their cross border, stats

wrong because he'd gone so deep into the

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business case, he could tell that there

were logical disconnects and he got them

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to correct their data but it was the

story that sold the case, not the numbers,

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It should have sold like two years

before I finally got approval.

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The numbers were easy, but nobody

could wrap their mind around the

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crazy thing I was trying to do.

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And it wasn't till I started telling a

story about grandparents and their kids.

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And what has happened over that

generation, over those generations.

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and then positing a question about

what that meant for their grandkids.

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That suddenly light bulbs went on.

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I remember, one of the executives of

finance came to me a few months later

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and he said, you've got me going around

this organization selling your case.

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And that is not my job.

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I am supposed to be resisting you.

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because story is what got people.

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We make decisions on

emotions, even banks do.

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we need to justify it after the fact

with numbers, but we decide on emotion.

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even hardcore finance bank people.

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Tim Winders: Yeah.

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And I guess for the business person

leader that's listening in, we're

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about to dive into background and

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some other things, take

that message to heart.

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Now, I will often challenge say,

Hey, listen, yeah, you're doing

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great things, but you need to

communicate it a little bit better.

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I've done this as a coach, and

storytelling is a great way of doing that.

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And sometimes you have to tell

that story over and So let,

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let's go back in, in the intro.

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I started, you know, with this little

tag that I read about you, that, you

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know, a rural library and I was sort

of chuckling as I read through it.

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you rode your bike.

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10 miles to you, you were

homeschooled and I'm sure it

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was uphill both ways, probably.

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You probably made sure you

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Daryl Potter: country.

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Tim Winders: I'm kind of e exact,

I mean, it kind of had a little

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bit of that story tone to it.

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give me a little glimpse of that.

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you're growing up and I also saw

somewhere where you, early on in your

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life, you decided to become an atheist.

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So let's tie that in.

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I'm always intrigued by

what that looks like.

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It's like, I'm committing to atheism.

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That's what I'm doing.

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So, tell me what you want to about, Daryl,

the early years before we jump ahead

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to all that's going on with you now.

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Daryl Potter: So I'll give you

the, the rapid fire version.

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Tim Winders: Yeah.

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Daryl Potter: I'm gonna be

a rat here 12 years old.

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there was a particular assault that

was ugly, rural California, rice

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farming country, northern part of

California, a thousand miles from la.

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So it's not the California people often

think of, Haldeman Mennonite community.

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Largely we were Baptist, but

Haldeman Mennonite community,

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that's the caps and gowns and,

and so on in the farming country.

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great, great community,

but a little bit insular.

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at least it was back then.

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That's decades ago now.

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And, so isolation, no, no,

you know, homeschooled, as you

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mentioned, no, no TV at home.

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obviously long before the internet was

invented, And one of the results of

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that assault was I think my, my, my

parents may have had some difficulty

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wrapping their minds around it.

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So trial occurred,

perpetrator went off to jail.

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Not always the end result

of those sort of things.

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but I got moved outta the house

six months after the trial.

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So 13 years old.

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moved a couple miles away to be a

night nurse to an elderly couple in

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their nineties, brother and sister duo.

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was on my own kind of from

13 on in many respects.

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and it really tainted my view

of Christianity of the world.

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we were, you know, Christian family,

but, but you know, you shouldn't

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leave any 13-year-old on their own

to raise themselves, nevermind one

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who's just been traumatized by an

event and then a court hearing.

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so at 18 I moved out of the

house officially, although I'd

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been gone already for years.

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then at 19 immigrated to Canada.

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hundred bucks in my pocket.

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I arrived at noon on a Monday

and I was working as a cook on a

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Tuesday They figured out I didn't

know how to cook, but by then I'd

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learned enough that they kept me.

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the, next few years those are

my atheist years, I went to UBC,

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university of British Columbia,

chemistry to become a good atheist.

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I slept on the street

now and again, did the.

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Poor immigrant thing got ripped

off by more than one employer.

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it really sobered me to realize,

hey, of a six foot tall, white,

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English speaking male, can be

so abused by being an immigrant.

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how much more so someone who had a

different skin color or an accent,

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or lack of education or other things.

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so even though I'm 34 years career banker

on Bay Street equivalent in the states

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of saying Wall Street, I still feel very

connected to another reality, farming,

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isolation, immigration, and poverty.

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And so, it's funny, I sometimes

look around my household

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now this is a real backdrop.

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and I think, you know, how did I get here?

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'cause I think we all carry a

certain self-identity that, Persists

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even when present reality changes.

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Tim Winders: Let me, I wanna

fast forward because a couple of

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questions that popped into my head.

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Daryl Potter: Hmm.

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Tim Winders: In the environment

that you grew up in?

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I know a little bit of that, I guess

is anaba and some of that world,

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you know, where they, and I admire

the kind of denial of maybe modern

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conveniences and some things like that.

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Daryl Potter: Yep.

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Tim Winders: I recently spent some time, I

had a client up in Amish country of Ohio,

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and it's just fascinating, you

know, see him driving around

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with the carts and all that.

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I don't know if you were

that way, but was your.

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I don't wanna use the word deconstruction,

that's not the correct word, but that's

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one that's thrown around a good bit today.

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Was your backlash or your, your movement

away from that faith, was it a backlash

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to some of the, I'll just call it

maybe the religion of how you grew up?

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And this is not a time, I'm not looking

to throw people under the bus or anything

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like that, but, but, but was it more

of like, Hey, I needed to purge some

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of that stuff because I'm about to ask

you about where you're at now, and I'm

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probably guessing where we're headed, but,

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: 00:16:59

Daryl Potter: Sure.

307

: 00:16:59

Tim Winders: Was it just like, Hey, I

don't want anything to do with that.

308

: 00:17:01

I need to get rid of it, or what?

309

: 00:17:04

Daryl Potter: I'd split it.

310

: 00:17:05

60 40, I'd say 60% was

a desire for honesty.

311

: 00:17:10

There was a, an unhealthy dynamic

that I was experiencing, you know, the

312

: 00:17:16

dynamic that would move a traumatized

13-year-old outta the house as a solution.

313

: 00:17:21

and I wasn't acting out.

314

: 00:17:22

I was just.

315

: 00:17:23

You know, wide-eyed trying to figure out

what just happened and how do I navigate

316

: 00:17:27

socially like any other 13-year-old,

there was a feeling of I'd observed a

317

: 00:17:32

Christianity of appearances and rules, not

a Christianity of honesty and enjoyment.

318

: 00:17:41

so that would be the 60%

that I was looking for.

319

: 00:17:43

And then the 40%, motivation factor

would've been, you know, to be, to

320

: 00:17:48

be candid, I'm in another country.

321

: 00:17:49

I'm 19 years old, and girls look good.

322

: 00:17:52

you know, I got drunk twice in my life.

323

: 00:17:54

Discovered both times I can't

handle the, the aftermath.

324

: 00:17:57

So, I haven't even been buzzed since

like that, even as an atheist, you

325

: 00:18:01

know, drinking, never, I didn't have

the gene apparently to be an alcoholic.

326

: 00:18:04

but there were other aspects of, you

know, worldly freedoms, in air quotes

327

: 00:18:10

for anyone not looking at the screen

that, were attractive to a 19-year-old

328

: 00:18:13

in another country with no supervision.

329

: 00:18:15

in some ways the poverty saved me from

some troubles I could have gotten in.

330

: 00:18:18

'cause I didn't have enough

money to get into some of them.

331

: 00:18:21

but those were, more motivating

than theology or something

332

: 00:18:26

like that at the time.

333

: 00:18:27

Tim Winders: Yeah.

334

: 00:18:27

And especially when one's been in

what I was probably a restrictive

335

: 00:18:31

environment growing up, all of a

sudden that liberty, that freedom.

336

: 00:18:37

it is fascinating that you say if

you had had more money, you could

337

: 00:18:39

have probably gotten in more trouble.

338

: 00:18:41

Daryl Potter: just to be clear, the

community was Haldeman Mennonite, which

339

: 00:18:45

meant 80% of the population around was

that our specific household was Baptist.

340

: 00:18:51

Uh, so I just wanted to,

I just wanna make sure

341

: 00:18:53

Tim Winders: Sure.

342

: 00:18:54

Daryl Potter: confusion in that

regard, but the, the, the conversation

343

: 00:18:56

still a hundred percent applies.

344

: 00:18:57

Yeah.

345

: 00:18:58

Tim Winders: yeah.

346

: 00:18:58

and so that feeds into

what I was about to say.

347

: 00:19:00

I grew up in the deep South

348

: 00:19:02

you know, the Bible belt, religious,

but we didn't really go to church.

349

: 00:19:06

I wasn't that committed

or anything like that.

350

: 00:19:09

I mean, but we had it baked in

around us just because of the

351

: 00:19:12

culture, which you probably did too.

352

: 00:19:16

You know, even though you

weren't, quote unquote that group,

353

: 00:19:19

you were, this group, you

were still collectively,

354

: 00:19:24

because that stuff permeates.

355

: 00:19:25

And so when I grew up, it's

interesting you talk about, you

356

: 00:19:28

know, you discovered females.

357

: 00:19:30

I discovered females

really at a young age.

358

: 00:19:33

And the one that drew me towards deeper

spiritual was the attractive, beautiful

359

: 00:19:39

one that I've now been married to for,

we've been around each other for 40 years.

360

: 00:19:43

Yeah.

361

: 00:19:43

And it was like the Lord said,

all right, I know how to get his

362

: 00:19:46

attention and I'm gonna use her.

363

: 00:19:47

Daryl Potter: Missionary dating.

364

: 00:19:48

Tim Winders: Halle.

365

: 00:19:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

366

: 00:19:49

Hallelujah.

367

: 00:19:50

it's worked out well.

368

: 00:19:51

one of the things I want to get to

is, I think I heard you describe kind

369

: 00:19:56

of where you are now, what's going on

with your family, because I think that

370

: 00:20:01

feeds into what you've been writing

definitely from a nonfiction and

371

: 00:20:05

probably from a fiction standpoint.

372

: 00:20:08

so let's fast forward to

wherever we need to set

373

: 00:20:11

a foundation for beginning to

discuss job and then Ecclesiastes.

374

: 00:20:16

Daryl Potter: So early twenties figured

out, hey, this, uh, this wild man in the

375

: 00:20:20

world thing is not fitting me well at all.

376

: 00:20:22

went on a bit of an existential quest to

figure out, what I would believe decided

377

: 00:20:28

I wasn't just gonna adopt my parents'

version of Christianity, or any religion.

378

: 00:20:32

Studied Hinduism, Buddhism,

Islam, wound up, Christianity.

379

: 00:20:37

CS Lewis was quite a help in that regard.

380

: 00:20:40

then proceeded to cycle through just

about every denomination I could find

381

: 00:20:43

within bus travel of where I lived.

382

: 00:20:47

have moved around a bit over time.

383

: 00:20:48

But, did I become a Christian, when I

was seven years old and prayed a prayer?

384

: 00:20:53

I certainly thought so at the

time, did I become a Christian

385

: 00:20:56

when my dad baptized me at 13?

386

: 00:20:59

I kind of thought so at the time, I think

I really engaged in my early twenties

387

: 00:21:03

when I actually was making real heart

level and not just, cultural ones.

388

: 00:21:10

I was, you know, single

guy for over half a decade.

389

: 00:21:13

Met my wife in the church.

390

: 00:21:14

we got married four years, uh, uh, uh,

as a, you know, double income, no kids

391

: 00:21:19

traveling Hawaii and Mexico and wherever.

392

: 00:21:22

And then, our daughter was born and the

bottom fell out of the world for me.

393

: 00:21:25

She was 10 days old when we realized

we had a problem and she became a

394

: 00:21:33

medical crisis 10 days old onwards.

395

: 00:21:36

we popped in for a one hour clinic

to follow up on a symptom that wasn't

396

: 00:21:39

good and we didn't go home for 10 days

the longest stretch in hospital was

397

: 00:21:43

30 days, but we basically just lived

in and out of emergency rooms and

398

: 00:21:47

hospital rooms Canada's west coast.

399

: 00:21:50

And, my wife went through some

medical stuff at the time as well,

400

: 00:21:53

where it looked like within that

first year of my daughter's birth,

401

: 00:21:55

I was gonna lose wife and daughter.

402

: 00:21:57

that.

403

: 00:21:59

a crisis of faith for me because I,

unbeknownst to myself, had a bit of a

404

: 00:22:04

transactional of how Christianity worked.

405

: 00:22:09

it's kind of like the, Western logic of,

I go to university, I'll get a good job.

406

: 00:22:13

Right?

407

: 00:22:13

That's how it works.

408

: 00:22:15

you know, it was like, I follow

God to a certain degree and he,

409

: 00:22:18

he blesses me to a certain degree.

410

: 00:22:19

That's how it works.

411

: 00:22:21

and so I studied job as a way

of, wrapping my mind around that.

412

: 00:22:25

read it first.

413

: 00:22:26

got nothing out of it.

414

: 00:22:28

as I've said elsewhere, I kind

of thought it was useless.

415

: 00:22:31

and I was in a.

416

: 00:22:32

Spiritual and crisis with what

was happening in my family.

417

: 00:22:38

So I read it again and determined that it

was not only useless, it was also boring.

418

: 00:22:42

if God wrote a book in the Bible on

suffering, that doesn't help somebody

419

: 00:22:45

who's suffering, that's a problem.

420

: 00:22:47

how good is he at his job?

421

: 00:22:49

and embarked on a 10 year quest

figure out the Book of Job.

422

: 00:22:53

'cause as you say, it's not

the place most people camp.

423

: 00:22:57

And holy cow, the literature

written on it is dense.

424

: 00:23:00

and I don't just mean a lot of it.

425

: 00:23:02

I mean, like.

426

: 00:23:03

What are you trying to communicate

in these three sentences that

427

: 00:23:06

I've read three times and still

don't know what you're saying?

428

: 00:23:09

and so it took 10 years, maybe

a slow student for me to really

429

: 00:23:12

finally feel like I understood job.

430

: 00:23:15

And, that's what led to writing

the first of the nonfiction books,

431

: 00:23:18

even The Monsters, which is a

mixture of memoir and commentary.

432

: 00:23:21

And it follows my journey of studying job

and then slowly un unveiling, kind of in

433

: 00:23:27

real time through the course of my study.

434

: 00:23:30

When it finally clicked for me

what this book was trying to teach,

435

: 00:23:34

which for the reader, that's the

first time through reading for me.

436

: 00:23:37

It was probably year seven or eight

and, the 10th time through the book with

437

: 00:23:43

commentaries and translators, handbooks.

438

: 00:23:46

and then from there moved on

to Ecclesiastes, which is the

439

: 00:23:48

God's Book of the Bible on,

meaning of life, if you will.

440

: 00:23:52

and, again, mixture of memoir on,

commentary on, again, another very.

441

: 00:23:56

to follow.

442

: 00:23:58

Intriguing, but what in the

world are you talking about?

443

: 00:24:02

Kind of book and lot of people call it

their, I've heard, I've had a lot of

444

: 00:24:05

people say, Ecclesiastes, it's their

favorite book, but I don't understand it.

445

: 00:24:09

Tim Winders: Well, most people, I

don't want to get sidetracked on this.

446

: 00:24:13

Most people, my, introduction and.

447

: 00:24:17

Probably Foundation of Ecclesiastes

was a song from the mid to late sixties

448

: 00:24:25

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

449

: 00:24:25

Tim Winders: that was taken totally in

context by the way, and set to music

450

: 00:24:30

and, and, and does have kind of a

fascinating haunting even sound to it.

451

: 00:24:36

And, and you know, I guess

there's a lot of wisdom there.

452

: 00:24:38

I don't, I don't want to say it's taken

out of context because, but, but so

453

: 00:24:43

one of the things, let me see here.

454

: 00:24:46

I've got two questions.

455

: 00:24:47

Let me see which direction I want to go.

456

: 00:24:49

I wanna also get a, an understanding

of where your family is now,

457

: 00:24:56

because what you just described, I

believe is 20 something years ago.

458

: 00:25:00

Daryl Potter: Yep.

459

: 00:25:00

Tim Winders: And so hold that

thought because then I also want to.

460

: 00:25:07

Talk about the context of both Job

and Ecclesiastes, but WWI tell you,

461

: 00:25:14

why don't we, go ahead and give us

a, tell me about your family today,

462

: 00:25:20

Daryl Potter: sure.

463

: 00:25:21

Tim Winders: and then I got a lot

of questions I wanna start tying

464

: 00:25:24

together with this because there's a

direction I think I want to go and I

465

: 00:25:28

think we're gonna have fun with it.

466

: 00:25:29

And it's gonna be deep.

467

: 00:25:30

So let's, let's get ready.

468

: 00:25:32

Daryl Potter: Fantastic.

469

: 00:25:33

So, 28 years married, my

wife worked in a law firm.

470

: 00:25:36

As I mentioned before, uh, our

daughter was born, hasn't worked

471

: 00:25:39

outside the home since, just

because of the medical challenges.

472

: 00:25:43

The, reality today is our daughter was

not expected to live past age three.

473

: 00:25:48

Once she finally had a

diagnosis, definitely would not

474

: 00:25:50

live through the teen years.

475

: 00:25:52

she was formally given palliative

care status at eight years old,

476

: 00:25:55

although she'd been a medical

crisis for eight years already.

477

: 00:25:59

And, we were basically instructed

to prepare for the end.

478

: 00:26:04

she's 24 now, so she's a medical miracle.

479

: 00:26:08

she's got two extraordinarily rare

conditions, neither one of which

480

: 00:26:12

has a proper name or even acronym.

481

: 00:26:16

And she's the only human

on the planet with both.

482

: 00:26:19

And so she's just unique

in every possible way.

483

: 00:26:23

we've got 10 hours a day of

nursing, seven days a week.

484

: 00:26:27

that's has to be registered nurse

or above because of the meds and

485

: 00:26:30

procedures that are required.

486

: 00:26:31

And then we're the night shift

from 7:00 PM till 9:00 AM So we

487

: 00:26:36

haven't, we don't go away together.

488

: 00:26:38

you know, it's $400 to leave the driveway

to go out to McDonald's for dinner.

489

: 00:26:43

not that we would choose maybe fast

food if we did spend that $400, but, but

490

: 00:26:46

the point is we have done that and we

have been in a steakhouse and we have

491

: 00:26:51

left halfway through the meal because

the ambulance was called and you know.

492

: 00:26:59

so much for that.

493

: 00:27:00

and there's no refund on the

$400 nursing when, when, when

494

: 00:27:03

that kind of thing occurs.

495

: 00:27:04

our son, we, we've got a son.

496

: 00:27:06

He's, he's 21 third year uni,

going into fourth year university.

497

: 00:27:09

And, engineering student,

he's super healthy.

498

: 00:27:11

We joke that whatever his sister left

behind, he picked up on the way out.

499

: 00:27:14

'cause he's, physically, mentally,

emotionally, spiritually, and

500

: 00:27:18

always, he's just like a total joy.

501

: 00:27:20

I think God was like, Hey, we

gave you Mackenzie, your daughter,

502

: 00:27:24

to torture you 24 hours a day.

503

: 00:27:26

so we're gonna give you Jackson, your

son and and he'll balance things out.

504

: 00:27:30

So he's a superstar.

505

: 00:27:31

if our first child had been Jackson,

we'd have been naming for 10 kids.

506

: 00:27:35

he's a joy.

507

: 00:27:35

So that's us.

508

: 00:27:36

we're all back home right now since

he's home for the summer An amazing

509

: 00:27:42

family dynamic despite the fact that

a medical crisis is a multiple times

510

: 00:27:47

a day, seven days a week thing.

511

: 00:27:50

we adapt to a bizarrely non-standard

lifestyle because that's the

512

: 00:27:59

row we've been given to hoe.

513

: 00:28:01

the only option is for one of us to ditch

the other which either one of us has done.

514

: 00:28:07

Tim Winders: So you're,

yeah, I wanted to kind of.

515

: 00:28:10

Clarify that many marriages don't make

it through that type of situation.

516

: 00:28:18

Many families are broken and splintered

and, you know, Jackson could easily

517

: 00:28:25

become bitter and angry or, you

know, your wife could, and, you

518

: 00:28:30

know, a lot of things could go on.

519

: 00:28:33

How would you, and this is gonna

feed into my additional questions

520

: 00:28:37

that we're about to have.

521

: 00:28:39

I use the word fun as a sort of a light to

say we're about to go really deep 'cause

522

: 00:28:44

I'm excited about this conversation.

523

: 00:28:46

Daryl Potter: you.

524

: 00:28:46

Tim Winders: But, how would you

assess where you're at today?

525

: 00:28:49

I mean, you're in a nice

office, things look good, but,

526

: 00:28:52

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

527

: 00:28:52

Tim Winders: you still have

this probably constant, thought

528

: 00:28:56

of a medical emergency or, or.

529

: 00:29:00

worse.

530

: 00:29:01

I think I heard you say somewhere

that because of your daughter

531

: 00:29:06

McKenzie living to this age, there's

a good chance she could be in

532

: 00:29:09

that condition now for many years.

533

: 00:29:11

There was a deterioration for a while,

but so, give me a current real world

534

: 00:29:17

maybe with a little spiritual aspect

assessment of the Potter family.

535

: 00:29:21

Daryl Potter: Yeah, so the Potter

family now is, in a situation where our

536

: 00:29:24

friends are all becoming empty nesters.

537

: 00:29:27

and we are now beginning to think we

might never be, because our daughter,

538

: 00:29:33

her condition is degenerative and one of

the two diagnoses she has is that if she

539

: 00:29:38

makes it to 24, she could make it to 60.

540

: 00:29:41

now, as I mentioned, she's got the two,

so she's not even supposed to be here

541

: 00:29:44

at all, but it's in a reduced capacity.

542

: 00:29:46

So She can't anymore.

543

: 00:29:49

12 years old, she said her last word,

daily seizures fed through a tube.

544

: 00:29:53

she can still hug, she can still

interact, but very limited.

545

: 00:29:56

And so there's a, we're in the process

of actually quite a life adjustment

546

: 00:29:59

as we think about, we never planned

to do this when we're 70 or 80.

547

: 00:30:07

And I don't think we'll be able to.

548

: 00:30:12

And not only that, if she's gonna

outlive us, which she's, again, she's

549

: 00:30:18

not supposed to, she's already 21

years past her supposed expiry date.

550

: 00:30:23

and by the way, that's kind of

a crude way to say it, but when

551

: 00:30:25

you live with it so long, you can

kind of develop a black humor.

552

: 00:30:28

so the, you know, we don't wanna

leave her to our son to be his

553

: 00:30:32

problem when we finally pass on.

554

: 00:30:36

she's our child.

555

: 00:30:37

So we're in the process of

exploring options, but there are

556

: 00:30:39

really, are no long-term care

options for someone like her.

557

: 00:30:45

They don't design those sort of

facilities for a 24-year-old woman.

558

: 00:30:50

they're either a hospital where you're

in a coma, you know, given her level

559

: 00:30:54

of high intensity, one-on-one needs,

or, it's a geriatric, convalescent

560

: 00:31:01

hospital situation where they can

either manage themselves with a bit

561

: 00:31:07

of support or, again, they're just

sitting in a chair all day and they're

562

: 00:31:11

not, you know, so interactive anymore.

563

: 00:31:14

She needs to be gotten out of her chair.

564

: 00:31:15

She can still scoot around the floor.

565

: 00:31:17

She's a 21-year-old with a

personality and a bit of feistiness.

566

: 00:31:20

We joke that if she was healthy, she'd

be the biker chick in the family.

567

: 00:31:24

Like she's, she's just got a

bit of a rebel personality.

568

: 00:31:26

She's got some of her mom in her.

569

: 00:31:28

not that my wife was ever a biker

chick, but the point being that,

570

: 00:31:30

she doesn't fit housing models.

571

: 00:31:35

You know, the ideal would be a

halfway you, not a halfway house.

572

: 00:31:38

that means different things

depending on the culture.

573

: 00:31:40

Tim Winders: Adult care,

574

: 00:31:42

like adult care.

575

: 00:31:43

We have some friends that run

an adult care and they have

576

: 00:31:46

five young men that are in their

twenties, thirties that live there.

577

: 00:31:50

And it's a, it's a beautiful

thing, but these young men have

578

: 00:31:53

to do some things on their own.

579

: 00:31:55

Daryl Potter: Exactly.

580

: 00:31:56

Tim Winders: some of the attendance,

581

: 00:31:57

Daryl Potter: We need that with 24 hour

one-on-one nurse or a hire care attendant.

582

: 00:32:04

And that's not a model that exists

in Canada or Western world really.

583

: 00:32:12

Tim Winders: so you're considering that,

and that's where you're at currently.

584

: 00:32:15

Okay.

585

: 00:32:15

I want to jump back to something you

said and add some thoughts into it.

586

: 00:32:21

shortly after I came to know Jesus

Christ, I moved into denomination belief

587

: 00:32:28

system, whatever that would be termed

Prosperity Gospel in most circles.

588

: 00:32:36

the reason I bring that up is

that in many ways I believe that

589

: 00:32:39

most Christians in first world

settings are prosperity gospel.

590

: 00:32:44

I know people will get mad when

I say that, but you mentioned

591

: 00:32:47

that you were transactional

592

: 00:32:50

Daryl Potter: Yeah,

593

: 00:32:50

Tim Winders: which meant

I've given my life to Jesus.

594

: 00:32:53

Everything's gonna be awesome.

595

: 00:32:55

Daryl Potter: yeah.

596

: 00:32:56

Tim Winders: that correct?

597

: 00:32:57

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

598

: 00:32:57

that's, you know, I likewise don't use

the Prosperity Gospel, partly because

599

: 00:33:01

I didn't think that way at the time.

600

: 00:33:03

and it wasn't a label I had for myself

also because, was, just an instinctive

601

: 00:33:12

give, get, you know, kind of selfish and

shallow and didn't require much faith.

602

: 00:33:18

You know, when I look back on it.

603

: 00:33:21

Tim Winders: Yeah.

604

: 00:33:21

I'm kind of calling all of us out

here that we live in extreme comfort

605

: 00:33:28

and we believe that everything should

be excellent all the time, which

606

: 00:33:32

is where we're moving here to talk

about job and then Ecclesiastes.

607

: 00:33:36

But, this is what's fascinating.

608

: 00:33:38

When I was looking at your life,

Darryl, and I want to bring this up.

609

: 00:33:41

You have what many would

consider to be the contrast.

610

: 00:33:46

In your household,

611

: 00:33:49

Daryl Potter: Right?

612

: 00:33:51

Tim Winders: would be what

many would consider to be the

613

: 00:33:54

ideal perfect child situation.

614

: 00:33:57

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

615

: 00:33:58

Tim Winders: And then McKenzie would be

one of many parents' worst nightmares.

616

: 00:34:04

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

617

: 00:34:06

Tim Winders: and so you have that

contrast that many of us would say,

618

: 00:34:11

well, and this is Christianese.

619

: 00:34:14

I went to Bible school and

this, and I heard this.

620

: 00:34:17

Hey, hey, brother Darrell,

you just need more faith.

621

: 00:34:19

She could be healed.

622

: 00:34:21

She could be, you know, what,

what are you doing wrong?

623

: 00:34:23

I mean, Jesus, Jesus.

624

: 00:34:25

Hill people dealt with this.

625

: 00:34:26

Daryl Potter: yeah,

626

: 00:34:27

Tim Winders: tell me about the

spiritual journey as you've been

627

: 00:34:31

along, and then this is gonna lead

into the job conversation, but tell

628

: 00:34:36

me about where you've landed and you

don't have to get into denominations

629

: 00:34:39

or anything like that because I'm sure

you found the perfect one and it works

630

: 00:34:43

perfectly with Jesus and all that.

631

: 00:34:44

But anyway, just, what's it been like

as you, as this has spilled out with

632

: 00:34:48

you, other than maybe just the job

conversation that we're about to get into?

633

: 00:34:52

Daryl Potter: So what

I would say is, that.

634

: 00:34:55

Brand of thinking that you described.

635

: 00:34:57

The what did you do wrong?

636

: 00:34:58

Obvious job connections.

637

: 00:35:00

But, uh, if you ignore job just for

a minute, it raises a question about

638

: 00:35:04

what did just about every follower

of God in the Bible do wrong?

639

: 00:35:09

and as a matter of fact, the Apostle

Paul was told at the beginning,

640

: 00:35:13

this thing's just gonna go

horribly sideways for you forever.

641

: 00:35:17

Here's a preview of heaven,

you know, so bonus for you.

642

: 00:35:20

most of us don't get that.

643

: 00:35:21

but in the meantime, it literally

says that he was informed right up

644

: 00:35:24

front how much he was gonna suffer.

645

: 00:35:27

the transactional, assumptions I think

are are human psychology and wish

646

: 00:35:37

fulfillment versus substantiated anywhere.

647

: 00:35:43

you know, there's certainly proverbs that

give general principles that are true.

648

: 00:35:48

if you don't drink, you

will get home safely.

649

: 00:35:52

that does not mean that every non-drinker

will never have a car accident in

650

: 00:35:55

their life, but it's a pretty good,

modern day proverb to say, lay off the

651

: 00:35:59

booze when you get behind the wheel

and your road trip will be solid.

652

: 00:36:04

except for the exceptions.

653

: 00:36:06

I think we take Proverbs and other

places in scripture and act like

654

: 00:36:12

they're ironclad guarantees of cause

and effect in, even the monsters.

655

: 00:36:17

The Joe Book, I say it's like we're

trying to do math that we expect if I do

656

: 00:36:21

add one-on-one, I will always get two.

657

: 00:36:23

And that's not how Proverbs work.

658

: 00:36:27

That's not how spiritual principles work.

659

: 00:36:30

you just get cancer, happens.

660

: 00:36:33

Businesses go bankrupt

and you didn't do it.

661

: 00:36:35

Maybe there is a villain

somewhere, but it's not you.

662

: 00:36:39

Tim Winders: Yeah, and I guess where,

this is where I'm at, maybe this is

663

: 00:36:41

getting my age starting to show too.

664

: 00:36:43

is that it?

665

: 00:36:44

We have inserted our own expectations

of the way things should be,

666

: 00:36:49

Daryl Potter: Mm-hmm.

667

: 00:36:50

Tim Winders: and it

filters into our faith.

668

: 00:36:52

I don't want to get into this

conversation, into eschatology and in

669

: 00:36:56

times thinking, you know, we believe

that there is this perfect situation

670

: 00:37:01

that we will eventually be in and be

again, raptured to it or whatever.

671

: 00:37:06

And I'm like going, I don't, I

don't know that I totally read that,

672

: 00:37:09

but, you were driven as you were

going through this process to job.

673

: 00:37:15

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

674

: 00:37:16

Tim Winders: And so, and

Job is one of these places.

675

: 00:37:20

I mean, the thing that fascinates me

most about Job is the early, like that

676

: 00:37:23

first chapter, maybe one 16 or something.

677

: 00:37:27

And I just turn my head every time when

it says, and you know, God was sitting

678

: 00:37:31

around with his council, his group, his.

679

: 00:37:34

Posse is people, and Satan came

in and they had this conversation.

680

: 00:37:39

I'm going, wait, what?

681

: 00:37:41

and then it kinda launches into

this suffering and things like that.

682

: 00:37:46

What, I wanna jump to the something

more book, but just give us a brief,

683

: 00:37:51

what do you want to share about

those 39 plus plus chapters of job?

684

: 00:37:58

in just a couple minutes before we

move into Ecclesiastes, where I want

685

: 00:38:02

us to spend a little more time with.

686

: 00:38:04

Daryl Potter: Yeah, let's

focus on Ecclesiastes.

687

: 00:38:05

But the brief thing on Job, I would

say is that Christians tend to know the

688

: 00:38:09

first two chapters, the whole Satan,

you know, trouble conversations and the

689

: 00:38:14

last one, they know, one, two, and 42,

the 39 in the middle are the mystery.

690

: 00:38:21

and it just looks like a

bunch of friends arguing.

691

: 00:38:22

And what I would say is most people know

if Job had three knucklehead friends,

692

: 00:38:26

a lot of people miss the fact that

there's a fourth friend because he's

693

: 00:38:29

got the name similar to the first one.

694

: 00:38:32

he's the one that God

doesn't have an issue with.

695

: 00:38:34

He's the one job doesn't have an

issue with, and he's the one who has

696

: 00:38:37

really great things to say from his

limited human point of view of not

697

: 00:38:41

actually knowing what's going on.

698

: 00:38:43

And says, I don't actually know

what's going on, unlike the others.

699

: 00:38:47

and says, but God does

things for a lot of reasons.

700

: 00:38:49

He does things preventatively, he

does do something, some things,

701

: 00:38:53

sometimes punitively, as punishment.

702

: 00:38:55

but sometimes he does things for reasons

that have nothing even to do with you.

703

: 00:38:59

one of the things I've, I really became

conscious of through my study, and it's

704

: 00:39:03

not the main output of the book, but is

that what's going on with my daughter

705

: 00:39:09

and the complete derailment of my wife

and i's life, her career, double income

706

: 00:39:15

travel, the world plans and everything

else, might have nothing to do us.

707

: 00:39:22

This might be a crucial, so important

step a grandchild or a great-grandchild.

708

: 00:39:35

Somebody that I've never met through

some roundabout circumstance is

709

: 00:39:40

going to tap into this in some way.

710

: 00:39:43

Like, I mean, say we're Christians

and we say we follow the Bible, but

711

: 00:39:47

what we seem utterly clued out to the

fact that there are stories in there

712

: 00:39:51

that take hundreds of years to come

true and to come to fulfillment and

713

: 00:39:58

so many lives were bit characters

in something glorious and amazing.

714

: 00:40:06

And we all kinda act like I

am the hero of the only play

715

: 00:40:11

happening right now on the planet.

716

: 00:40:14

and failing to account for the fact

that God has God and he thinks big.

717

: 00:40:21

And the odds of me being the

lead actor in any of this are.

718

: 00:40:26

Small.

719

: 00:40:29

Tim Winders: is.

720

: 00:40:29

Daryl Potter: not the main point

of the book, but it's one of the

721

: 00:40:31

subpoints that really helped me a great

722

: 00:40:33

Tim Winders: Well, but it's so powerful

because, as I've spent quiet time

723

: 00:40:38

and, journaled and time with the Lord,

I often get something to the effect

724

: 00:40:43

of, there's always a bigger picture.

725

: 00:40:46

You know, your situation, you're

looking for a miracle by next Friday.

726

: 00:40:50

And let me take you back to the Old

Testament where they were given promises

727

: 00:40:54

that took 400, 600 plus plus years.

728

: 00:40:58

And so, you know, Joe and Sally living

in the Southern Kingdom, or had been

729

: 00:41:05

transported to Babylon are being told,

yes, you will be reconciled, redeemed.

730

: 00:41:11

there's a savior coming that

was still 600 years later,

731

: 00:41:15

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

732

: 00:41:15

Tim Winders: and we're going,

but what about their life?

733

: 00:41:18

You know, what's going on with them?

734

: 00:41:19

They're always the bigger picture.

735

: 00:41:21

So I love that this sort of ties

in a little bit with your fiction.

736

: 00:41:25

Daryl Potter: Hmm.

737

: 00:41:27

Tim Winders: I wanna say

first and second century, but

738

: 00:41:29

BC or what's the right?

739

: 00:41:31

Daryl Potter: C,

740

: 00:41:31

Tim Winders: B, C, yeah.

741

: 00:41:32

Be Sarah.

742

: 00:41:33

Daryl Potter: whatever the name is.

743

: 00:41:33

Tim Winders: Yeah.

744

: 00:41:34

So that, you know, I'm actually writing

some fiction from the first century.

745

: 00:41:39

Daryl Potter: Oh,

746

: 00:41:40

Tim Winders: From about

30 to about one 15 ad

747

: 00:41:43

Daryl Potter: Good for you.

748

: 00:41:44

Tim Winders: because I believe

that we are missing a lot of

749

: 00:41:49

context on what was going on.

750

: 00:41:51

I wanna move to Ecclesiastes.

751

: 00:41:53

And having said that, I'm real big

now on understanding context, who

752

: 00:41:59

the audience was, who wrote things.

753

: 00:42:02

And we know that the preacher

Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes.

754

: 00:42:08

But give us the context before we dive

into a few things with the Ecclesiastes.

755

: 00:42:14

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

756

: 00:42:14

So you've got a, you've got a

character who's ultra rich, measures

757

: 00:42:19

his gold in tons, ultra, wise, God

blesses him with, exceptional wisdom.

758

: 00:42:27

ultra talented, royalty, and royalty.

759

: 00:42:31

Not like a US president or a Canadian

Prime minister, but like thousand bc.

760

: 00:42:39

You know, we would say dictator today,

you know, like they were king, you

761

: 00:42:43

were seriously king and your word was.

762

: 00:42:47

power, who was unsatisfied life

and went on a quest to figure

763

: 00:42:56

out to live the good life.

764

: 00:43:00

And not for a decade, but a lifetime.

765

: 00:43:05

And, he went through a period where

he thought, let's party, you know,

766

: 00:43:09

maybe I should be enjoying myself more.

767

: 00:43:12

So he did it for a decade.

768

: 00:43:14

Like he didn't do things small.

769

: 00:43:17

you know, he did the sex,

drugs and rock and roll thing.

770

: 00:43:19

And he didn't just do it a couple

times, like he had a thousand women.

771

: 00:43:23

Uh, the, uh, but he wasn't just, know,

that he decided that didn't work.

772

: 00:43:32

Actually, I will say this, one of the

things I love about Ecclesiastes is he

773

: 00:43:35

reflects on it and he says, I enjoyed that

that's a bit alarming, I think for your

774

: 00:43:42

typical conservative Christian to realize.

775

: 00:43:44

There's a place in the Bible where some

guy goes through a decade of hedonism

776

: 00:43:47

and comes out the other side and says,

there were actually some fun nights.

777

: 00:43:53

but then he goes on to say, but

I'm emptier than when I started.

778

: 00:43:56

I've just exhausted an

avenue and gotten nowhere.

779

: 00:43:59

And so he goes on to healthier things.

780

: 00:44:00

He goes on to music and

art and, and science.

781

: 00:44:04

he gets into botany and architecture

and landscape design and, writing.

782

: 00:44:09

and each, he keeps

pausing through the book.

783

: 00:44:12

It's a pattern through the book.

784

: 00:44:13

he takes a course, so to speak.

785

: 00:44:15

comes out the other side,

It didn't work though.

786

: 00:44:19

Goes off on a totally new tangent.

787

: 00:44:21

And again, he does it serious.

788

: 00:44:23

He does a decade.

789

: 00:44:23

He does two decades.

790

: 00:44:24

he's the king.

791

: 00:44:25

there were no big wars in his lifetime.

792

: 00:44:27

he didn't have to, be

leading an army or anything.

793

: 00:44:29

He got to just screw around with

his life for his whole life.

794

: 00:44:32

And, uh, um, love how he went after

everything and then reminds us,

795

: 00:44:43

I had the resources to do this.

796

: 00:44:46

I had gold measured in tons.

797

: 00:44:48

If I liked the band, I bought it.

798

: 00:44:50

Nobody had invented CD players yet.

799

: 00:44:52

and he really helps.

800

: 00:44:54

I think for, your audience often

executive or business community people.

801

: 00:44:58

He really helps with some

ahas that guys our age and

802

: 00:45:05

younger need to hear and learn.

803

: 00:45:09

Because those psychological, you

don't have to even be a Christian.

804

: 00:45:13

Those psychological report cards come

due in your seventies and eighties,

805

: 00:45:18

and there is nothing you can do

in the business world that will

806

: 00:45:25

stamp that passport as satisfied.

807

: 00:45:30

Tim Winders: Hmm.

808

: 00:45:30

Daryl Potter: will

809

: 00:45:30

just be sent out to pasture one day,

potentially even if it's your own company

810

: 00:45:35

by the board of the company you founded.

811

: 00:45:39

it's cool, just like that decade of

partying was cool, but no, not really.

812

: 00:45:48

Tim Winders: And especially

if that's what you're.

813

: 00:45:50

Tied up into, listen,

everything in me just boggles.

814

: 00:45:53

I'm boggled by, you know, a

thousand women and all that.

815

: 00:45:56

first of all, the logistics of it.

816

: 00:45:58

I mean, my wife is incredible.

817

: 00:46:00

I can barely, I don't know

if handle is the right word.

818

: 00:46:05

I can't even picture that.

819

: 00:46:08

But I mean, is it safe to say that Solomon

was searching for the meaning of life or

820

: 00:46:14

looking for love in all the wrong places?

821

: 00:46:16

If we wanna quote some country music

song, and you know, he even used

822

: 00:46:19

his words in my New King James here.

823

: 00:46:21

Vanity is used quite a bit, but

he, I believe is the word there.

824

: 00:46:26

was he looking for the meaning of

life and he actually was able to have

825

: 00:46:32

all the resources to look everywhere.

826

: 00:46:34

Daryl Potter: one of the things I

talk about early in the book is,

827

: 00:46:35

man, if you're looking for a guide

for this topic, you want a guy from

828

: 00:46:39

that era because there were no rules.

829

: 00:46:42

And you want a guy with those resources,

intellectual, financial, and other

830

: 00:46:46

political, He was looking, I'm glad

you brought up that word, vanity.

831

: 00:46:51

Vanity.

832

: 00:46:52

Everything is, vanity is, you

know, roughly how it goes.

833

: 00:46:55

I tended to, have the NIV

in my head, so meaningless.

834

: 00:46:58

Meaningless, utterly meaningless.

835

: 00:47:01

Everything is meaningless.

836

: 00:47:03

Tim Winders: Yeah.

837

: 00:47:04

Daryl Potter: that.

838

: 00:47:04

Tim Winders: And

839

: 00:47:05

there's one other thing I did.

840

: 00:47:06

I wanna bring this up

and you could keep going.

841

: 00:47:08

in chapter two, and this is, I obviously

did this years ago, not this morning.

842

: 00:47:13

When I was reading through this,

just to prep for this, I went through

843

: 00:47:16

and highlighted every time the word

I was listed out in chapter two,

844

: 00:47:22

I will test you.

845

: 00:47:24

I searched my heart, you

know, a lot of eyes there

846

: 00:47:27

Daryl Potter: Mm-hmm.

847

: 00:47:29

Tim Winders: and I counted like

13 or 20, and then he goes into

848

: 00:47:32

more vanity and all of that.

849

: 00:47:34

I mean, this is, this is everything that

we are looking to do in the world system.

850

: 00:47:45

It seems as if Solomon is laying it

out for us here in this book that a lot

851

: 00:47:49

of people avoid in the Old Testament.

852

: 00:47:51

Daryl Potter: Yeah.

853

: 00:47:52

And the, is pursuing a very eye centered,

let me build off with what you just said.

854

: 00:47:57

as the book goes on, he straightens

his game out a little, he

855

: 00:48:02

starts getting into philosophy.

856

: 00:48:04

He starts getting into politics,

he starts getting into economics,

857

: 00:48:08

he starts getting into sociology.

858

: 00:48:11

he even gets into social justice, which

is, surprising to a modern audience

859

: 00:48:15

to realize that he was concerned about

sexism and, classism and other things.

860

: 00:48:20

he expressed a great deal of frustration

that even as the king of a kingdom

861

: 00:48:28

where he had absolutely power over,

to use a modern American phrase church

862

: 00:48:33

and state, he was powerless to actually

create the things he wanted to create.

863

: 00:48:39

he talks about there's injustice, to

use modern language injustice in the

864

: 00:48:43

church and injustice in the courts.

865

: 00:48:45

it was a game of whack-a-mole,

even for someone with his wisdom,

866

: 00:48:50

wealth and power, over his kingdom.

867

: 00:48:54

some of your audience will

probably recognize, it's like,

868

: 00:48:56

yeah, I hire good people.

869

: 00:48:57

And then one guy goes nuts and I

get him straightened out and then

870

: 00:48:59

the lady over there goes nuts.

871

: 00:49:01

And then there's a whole division

that's like, what are you people doing?

872

: 00:49:03

and, you know.

873

: 00:49:05

The whole world is ve but here's where I

wanna really anchor your audience, because

874

: 00:49:12

it changes your reading of Ecclesiastes.

875

: 00:49:14

That word does not mean

meaningless or vanity.

876

: 00:49:20

It's a metaphor.

877

: 00:49:22

And, if, if your audience is like, okay,

English, slit, what's metaphor again?

878

: 00:49:26

it's just a symbol that's

supposed to stand for something.

879

: 00:49:29

So in the book, I, I say, you

know, if I say my wife is a rose,

880

: 00:49:33

you know, you're guaranteed to

understand I didn't marry a plant.

881

: 00:49:39

So it's a metaphor.

882

: 00:49:40

He means she's beautiful.

883

: 00:49:42

Or if somebody was of a poetic

mind, they might think, ah,

884

: 00:49:45

maybe she also smells nice.

885

: 00:49:46

if somebody was even of a slightly

subversive, poetic mind, they might think,

886

: 00:49:50

Ooh, she maybe has a few thorns as well.

887

: 00:49:52

you know, so there's, that's

the beauty of a metaphor.

888

: 00:49:54

you can put it out there and then

people need to engage intellectually to

889

: 00:49:59

figure out through the rest of the poem.

890

: 00:50:01

What does he mean by this?

891

: 00:50:03

And it's a rich, you know, the

word is breath, breath, breath.

892

: 00:50:10

Everything is breath.

893

: 00:50:12

Utter

894

: 00:50:13

Tim Winders: poof, poof.

895

: 00:50:14

I mean, at one point someone

said more like a, just a, or

896

: 00:50:20

almost like not descriptive.

897

: 00:50:23

Daryl Potter: well, yeah.

898

: 00:50:25

So that, that's good.

899

: 00:50:26

and that's where I would say you,

you, that's where you grab your

900

: 00:50:29

liberal arts majors or your poetry

friends or whatever, and start to

901

: 00:50:33

Tim Winders: Engineer.

902

: 00:50:33

I can't grasp that.

903

: 00:50:35

Daryl Potter: so you, you've

thought of one aspect of it, which

904

: 00:50:37

we could say, okay, temporary and

ephemeral, you know, but what else?

905

: 00:50:43

You know, you have kids, right?

906

: 00:50:44

Tim Winders: Yeah.

907

: 00:50:45

Daryl Potter: what's

908

: 00:50:45

Tim Winders: kids.

909

: 00:50:46

Daryl Potter: before you even counted

fingers and toes, what did you look for?

910

: 00:50:53

Tim Winders: Hmm.

911

: 00:50:53

Daryl Potter: breath,

912

: 00:50:54

Tim Winders: Whew.

913

: 00:50:55

Daryl Potter: you wanted to hear them.

914

: 00:50:59

And man, the cortisol level starts

dropping in your bloodstream.

915

: 00:51:02

it's essential to life.

916

: 00:51:04

It's precious.

917

: 00:51:06

It's kind of mysterious.

918

: 00:51:08

We know more about it now with our

understanding of biochemistry and stuff,

919

: 00:51:11

but, man, you can go look up the Wikipedia

on how breathing works and then walk

920

: 00:51:16

away and it's still pretty mysterious and

magical it's also gives you the illusion

921

: 00:51:23

that you can control it, but not really.

922

: 00:51:28

You go sprint three times around

your block and try to maintain

923

: 00:51:30

the breathing you've got going on

right now, and it's not happening.

924

: 00:51:34

you know, you can, hold your breath

and if you are of an exceptional

925

: 00:51:39

amount of willpower and can go two

minutes, three minutes, you know But

926

: 00:51:44

you're gonna pass out at some point.

927

: 00:51:46

Start breathing again.

928

: 00:51:47

so it's not really in your control.

929

: 00:51:50

Even if it gives you the illusion

now and again that it is, it's

930

: 00:51:53

also repetitive in the book.

931

: 00:51:56

I can't remember the number, but the

billion plus times you are going to take

932

: 00:51:59

a breath in your life are just written,

you know, uh, it's really satisfying,

933

: 00:52:09

except it's not, uh, you know, you dive in

a pool and you come up, oh, that's great.

934

: 00:52:15

But you can never, ever, ever, no

matter how pure the mountain air

935

: 00:52:19

or whatever, you can never have

one really, really good breath and

936

: 00:52:23

be like, ah, I'm done for the day.

937

: 00:52:24

That was awesome.

938

: 00:52:26

there's just so many,

that's such a rich metaphor.

939

: 00:52:28

Um, but it's such a positive metaphor.

940

: 00:52:31

Life is like that.

941

: 00:52:34

Beautiful and smells nice,

and probably thorns too.

942

: 00:52:39

temporary, repetitive,

mysterious, fragile, essential

943

: 00:52:44

life-giving, hard to control.

944

: 00:52:47

That's life.

945

: 00:52:49

Tim Winders: Hmm.

946

: 00:52:49

Daryl Potter: that.

947

: 00:52:51

Uh, and

948

: 00:52:51

Tim Winders: Uh.

949

: 00:52:52

Daryl Potter: illusion when we're on top

of our game career-wise or physically

950

: 00:52:56

or, you know, won the girl's hand that

we were chasing or had the perfectly

951

: 00:53:01

healthy baby or whatever you're gonna

run around a block or something here

952

: 00:53:06

in this life of yours and discover

you're not as in control as you thought.

953

: 00:53:10

Tim Winders: I think that

control word is good.

954

: 00:53:12

It almost is for an

entirely other episode.

955

: 00:53:16

'cause I'm watching our time here.

956

: 00:53:18

the subtitle of your book, let me see if

I can get a copy up here to the camera

957

: 00:53:23

for those that might be watching is,

this is on my Kindle, living Well in

958

: 00:53:27

a Broken World, something More Living

Well In a Broken World, and it's a

959

: 00:53:32

journey through the Book of Ecclesiastes.

960

: 00:53:34

Tell me quickly, we're short on time here,

almost living well in a broken world.

961

: 00:53:39

What were you, what were

you looking to share there?

962

: 00:53:43

Daryl Potter: Well, the, the, the genesis

of it was I felt like my world was

963

: 00:53:47

broken, with my daughter's situation.

964

: 00:53:49

And, you know, we live like

it's COVID-19 lockdown because

965

: 00:53:53

we're just not allowed to leave.

966

: 00:53:54

One of us can leave, but, you know, as a

couple, it's kind of COVID, 19 lockdown.

967

: 00:53:59

so my world was kind of broken,

working on Bay Street, but handicapped

968

: 00:54:03

as though I'm on house arrest.

969

: 00:54:05

the, but in studying Ecclesiastes,

observing the lives of those around

970

: 00:54:11

me, recognizing that in every other

way the world is set up deliberately.

971

: 00:54:17

Broken and it says Cle Ecclesiastes,

that God did this on purpose.

972

: 00:54:22

We are going to always want more.

973

: 00:54:27

You won't get a big enough paycheck,

you won't get a good enough

974

: 00:54:30

spouse, you won't, get a final

degree that will make you happy.

975

: 00:54:34

You won't drive the car that after a

month isn't gonna feel like a used car.

976

: 00:54:40

the, that's how the

world is made on purpose.

977

: 00:54:47

And while we may have a lifetime

spent trying to fix our corner of

978

: 00:54:51

the world, and it's good to work

for progress, and I think the whole

979

: 00:54:53

planet has progressed in many ways.

980

: 00:54:55

I'm glad for my electricity and

running water and antibiotics, but,

981

: 00:54:59

the Bible is there to teach us how

to live well despite and not expect

982

: 00:55:06

miraculous cures to everything.

983

: 00:55:08

Because if we got everything.

984

: 00:55:10

We probably wouldn't reach out to God.

985

: 00:55:13

He's wired

986

: 00:55:14

it this way on purpose.

987

: 00:55:16

Tim Winders: Yeah, in Ecclesiastes,

I love the way it unfolded, you

988

: 00:55:20

know, sitting here listening to the

person that's why I love the context.

989

: 00:55:24

We need to get the context right.

990

: 00:55:26

We will often pluck these scriptures

and attempt to make them apply

991

: 00:55:29

without looking at who wrote it

992

: 00:55:32

and what was going on there.

993

: 00:55:33

I mean, this is someone who

had, from a world system.

994

: 00:55:38

Everything.

995

: 00:55:40

I think that is incredible.

996

: 00:55:43

Darrell, let's do this, man, I hope,

have teased someone to know they

997

: 00:55:46

need to get some of your stuff.

998

: 00:55:48

I'm actually just a little ways

into your book here, because when

999

: 00:55:50

I was going through it, I wanted

to jump over to Ecclesiastes.

: 1000

00:55:53,918 --> 00:55:59,168

But, you've got this, something more

living well in a broken world, and

: 1001

00:55:59,168 --> 00:56:01,418

then you also have some fiction.

: 1002

00:56:01,418 --> 00:56:05,738

Just give a quick blurb on that

and where people can find that.

: 1003

00:56:05,749 --> 00:56:09,019

I think you're working on a project

that heads into the song of,

: 1004

00:56:09,019 --> 00:56:13,369

song of Solomon, talks a little

bit more about, sex and romance.

: 1005

00:56:13,669 --> 00:56:16,889

So that will be, something that many

people will want to look forward to.

: 1006

00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:20,049

But tell me a little about where

people can find your stuff and

: 1007

00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:21,699

a little bit about the fiction.

: 1008

00:56:21,759 --> 00:56:23,829

And then I've got one more

question before we wrap up.

: 1009

00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:25,130

Daryl Potter: Fantastic.

: 1010

00:56:25,130 --> 00:56:27,230

So you can find me@darylpotter.com.

: 1011

00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,190

That's, one R-D-A-R-Y-L potter.com.

: 1012

00:56:31,490 --> 00:56:34,720

I've got buy links and book

descriptions and, a few reviews

: 1013

00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:35,680

and so on and everything there.

: 1014

00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:42,020

you can, read hard book, Kindle, ebook,

whatever platform, great narrators,

: 1015

00:56:42,050 --> 00:56:45,740

different narrator for the fiction versus

a nonfiction, but it's an audiobook

: 1016

00:56:45,740 --> 00:56:46,940

and I made sure they're in libraries.

: 1017

00:56:46,940 --> 00:56:50,355

So if you've got a library membership

and your library supports audiobooks.

: 1018

00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:51,660

Download away.

: 1019

00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:52,720

I want to get them out there.

: 1020

00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:56,950

the novels, so far have been, historical

fiction, first and second century bc.

: 1021

00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,000

and, I won't, bog you down with

the details, but it's basically

: 1022

00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:02,410

backstory to the gospels.

: 1023

00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:06,330

third book in particular is, the

story of Herod the greats mother.

: 1024

00:57:06,580 --> 00:57:10,860

Herod's, still a preteen in that book,

but, tells the story of her role in

: 1025

00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:12,660

bringing the Roman Empire into Israel.

: 1026

00:57:12,970 --> 00:57:16,879

she was a formidable woman with, an Arabic

woman, which makes, some interesting

: 1027

00:57:16,879 --> 00:57:18,949

nuances in the context of ancient Israel.

: 1028

00:57:19,919 --> 00:57:22,319

and like you mentioned, I've

got a couple books in the works.

: 1029

00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:25,329

The, next, will be stepping

out of historical and into,

: 1030

00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:27,069

modern day magical realism.

: 1031

00:57:28,779 --> 00:57:30,789

for those who don't know what

that term is, think life of

: 1032

00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:32,109

pie or something like that.

: 1033

00:57:32,109 --> 00:57:33,239

It's, along those lines.

: 1034

00:57:33,389 --> 00:57:35,859

And then, I'm still, I

haven't started writing yet.

: 1035

00:57:35,859 --> 00:57:39,569

I'm still, deep into the research

phase for the Song of Songs book.

: 1036

00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:43,599

That's, such a fascinating but

hard to understand book because of

: 1037

00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:46,449

the nuanced nature of the poetry.

: 1038

00:57:46,449 --> 00:57:50,719

So, I've tackled three complicated

books of poetry, but, they're

: 1039

00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:52,179

a fun challenge to get into.

: 1040

00:57:52,899 --> 00:57:55,419

I hope to make plain, although,

song of Songs is gonna be

: 1041

00:57:55,419 --> 00:57:56,436

a beast, it's a tough one.

: 1042

00:57:57,459 --> 00:57:57,969

Tim Winders: Interesting.

: 1043

00:57:57,969 --> 00:58:00,519

Well, we'll look forward, maybe we'll

circle back and have another conversation

: 1044

00:58:01,269 --> 00:58:01,749

then.

: 1045

00:58:01,799 --> 00:58:02,309

I did that.

: 1046

00:58:02,309 --> 00:58:03,539

we've gone a little bit over the time.

: 1047

00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:06,784

I feel compelled nudged.

: 1048

00:58:06,784 --> 00:58:11,279

Maybe we'll say it's the Holy

Spirit to have you say a word

: 1049

00:58:11,279 --> 00:58:13,019

of encouragement possibly.

: 1050

00:58:13,019 --> 00:58:15,739

As we finish up here, I'll mention

a few things after you're done and

: 1051

00:58:15,789 --> 00:58:21,179

I hate to say do it quickly, but

I'm gonna ask that for someone.

: 1052

00:58:21,804 --> 00:58:24,444

Who has special needs in their family?

: 1053

00:58:24,444 --> 00:58:30,594

For someone who may have, I know every

situation's unique, but may have listened

: 1054

00:58:30,594 --> 00:58:36,324

in because they saw the title or saw

some things, say something hopeful.

: 1055

00:58:36,324 --> 00:58:39,724

It's encouraging to that person

that's listening in that just might

: 1056

00:58:39,724 --> 00:58:43,454

need a good word at this time.

: 1057

00:58:43,504 --> 00:58:47,044

I'll just let you finish with that and

then I'll come back in and finish this up.

: 1058

00:58:47,721 --> 00:58:50,931

Daryl Potter: What I would say is

that the history of Christianity, the

: 1059

00:58:50,931 --> 00:58:58,761

content of the Bible and the experience

of your fellow humans your situation

: 1060

00:58:59,361 --> 00:59:07,281

while yours is very unique to you, not

unprecedented on the planet, and that's

: 1061

00:59:07,281 --> 00:59:16,971

not to downgrade your stresses, but to

say your God knows and there is material.

: 1062

00:59:17,466 --> 00:59:21,726

Written thousands of years ago for you.

: 1063

00:59:22,086 --> 00:59:25,386

And there are modern tools

to help you understand it.

: 1064

00:59:25,416 --> 00:59:28,506

'cause sometimes just picking up that

new King James version or whatever,

: 1065

00:59:28,506 --> 00:59:34,496

translation trying to get it yourself,

you're encountering centuries of culture

: 1066

00:59:34,526 --> 00:59:40,556

being culturally removed, translation

removed and writing styles removed.

: 1067

00:59:40,766 --> 00:59:46,966

So there are modern tools in, in,

podcasts, in, in books, in good

: 1068

00:59:46,966 --> 00:59:48,856

sources out there to meet your need.

: 1069

00:59:48,906 --> 00:59:53,046

There's a proverb that says each man,

know, each heart knows its own sorrow.

: 1070

00:59:53,286 --> 00:59:59,196

So there is a really real sense where

we are all kind of alone, but God

: 1071

00:59:59,196 --> 01:00:04,026

knows, cares, and he's God as the, as

the title says of even the monsters.

: 1072

01:00:04,476 --> 01:00:05,106

So don't.

: 1073

01:00:05,496 --> 01:00:12,006

Let go of the story until you've stayed in

the story long enough to see how it ends.

: 1074

01:00:14,046 --> 01:00:14,166

He

: 1075

01:00:14,199 --> 01:00:14,479

Tim Winders: knows what

: 1076

01:00:14,496 --> 01:00:14,616

Daryl Potter: he's

: 1077

01:00:14,616 --> 01:00:14,856

doing.

: 1078

01:00:15,999 --> 01:00:16,509

Tim Winders: Excellent.

: 1079

01:00:16,659 --> 01:00:17,289

Darryl Potter.

: 1080

01:00:17,289 --> 01:00:17,859

Thank you.

: 1081

01:00:17,889 --> 01:00:18,459

I appreciate it.

: 1082

01:00:18,459 --> 01:00:19,359

I'm glad I asked that.

: 1083

01:00:19,419 --> 01:00:20,259

That was very good.

: 1084

01:00:20,689 --> 01:00:24,199

the book to check out something

more Living Well in a Broken World

: 1085

01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:28,099

will include down in our notes or

if you're on YouTube will include

: 1086

01:00:28,099 --> 01:00:30,229

how to get to Darrell's stuff.

: 1087

01:00:30,229 --> 01:00:31,519

I appreciate this conversation.

: 1088

01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:35,749

It kind of feeds into a lot of things

that we've been doing just about how our

: 1089

01:00:35,749 --> 01:00:43,129

expectations probably need to be adjusted

about the world and about our situation.

: 1090

01:00:43,159 --> 01:00:50,509

And we still serve a loving living God,

but maybe the way we look at, I don't

: 1091

01:00:50,509 --> 01:00:54,169

know, prosperity and different things

in the world, we need to readjust that.

: 1092

01:00:54,219 --> 01:00:56,889

Check out all of his

stuff, go read his books.

: 1093

01:00:57,129 --> 01:00:58,209

We're seek Go Create here.

: 1094

01:00:58,209 --> 01:01:00,849

We've got new episodes every

Monday that drop on YouTube and

: 1095

01:01:00,849 --> 01:01:02,652

all the platforms, I appreciate it.

: 1096

01:01:02,652 --> 01:01:07,522

We've just busted over a thousand

subscribers over on YouTube and it has

: 1097

01:01:07,522 --> 01:01:09,562

all of a sudden just rapidly increase.

: 1098

01:01:09,562 --> 01:01:11,722

So thank you all for that.

: 1099

01:01:11,722 --> 01:01:12,982

I appreciate you joining us.

: 1100

01:01:13,012 --> 01:01:15,442

We'll see you next time

on Seek, go, create.