The Rhythm of Excellence: How Consistent Habits Lead to Extraordinary Results with Patrick Thean

Patrick Thean: 00:00:00

When I sold my first company, we were very successful

Patrick Thean: 00:00:03

from the world looking in.

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We're very successful.

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We're Inc.

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500, number 151 on the Inc.

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500 list of privately held companies.

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We were Entrepreneur of the Year.

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We had lots of awards.

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But from the inside looking out, I was running from one crisis to another,

Patrick Thean: 00:00:18

solving one problem to another, and then we solved enough to survive,

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and every time we survived again, and then suddenly we were successful.

Tim Winders: 00:00:38

Welcome to the Seek Go Create podcast.

Tim Winders: 00:00:40

This is your host, Tim Winders.

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I'm an executive coach and I get to do one of the things I love the most, which

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today is interview an incredibly awesome guest, very talented, great background.

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I do want to remind you, this is Seek Go Create.

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This is where we challenge the conventional definitions of success.

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And explore stories of transformation in leadership, business, and in ministry.

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Today, I have the privilege of interviewing Patrick Tien.

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He's a seasoned entrepreneur, speaker, CEO, coach, and a best selling author.

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He's had a remarkable journey that led him to be named Ernst

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Young Entrepreneur of the Year.

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He's on a mission to help CEOs build exceptional companies

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and achieve their dreams.

Tim Winders: 00:01:23

Patrick, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Patrick Thean: 00:01:26

Thank you very much.

Patrick Thean: 00:01:27

I'm so glad to be here.

Patrick Thean: 00:01:28

Thanks for inviting me.

Tim Winders: 00:01:29

Yeah.

Tim Winders: 00:01:29

I'm glad you're here, Patrick, too.

Tim Winders: 00:01:31

I love, I've told people this all the time.

Tim Winders: 00:01:33

One of the things I love about doing this is I get an hour

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to just push everything away.

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And so the person listening in, this is what they get.

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And let's just have a deep, probably fun conversation about stuff, cool stuff.

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And we're going to do that today.

Tim Winders: 00:01:50

Before I do that, though, let me ask, we, we just bumped into each other.

Tim Winders: 00:01:53

We're on a plane or something like that.

Tim Winders: 00:01:55

And I ask you what you do, what do you say when someone

Tim Winders: 00:01:58

says, what do you do, Patrick?

Patrick Thean: 00:02:01

Tim, I actually help CEOs to not fail, but to rather succeed.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:06

And I choose those words because I help CEOs to execute their strategy.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:12

The CEO's job is really hard.

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It's really hard.

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The failure rate is really high.

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And most CEOs actually leave their jobs involuntarily.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:21

That's a nice way to say they got fired.

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So most CEOs leave their jobs involuntarily.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:26

how do you succeed?

Patrick Thean: 00:02:27

It's a hard job.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:28

So what I've learned along the way is that most CEOs don't fail for lack of

Patrick Thean: 00:02:32

strategy, but rather for the inability.

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To execute the strategy, which for me means achieving the commitments.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:40

They made a commitments to their customers, to their employees,

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to their shareholders, to their investors, to all their stakeholders.

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And, that is critical if you want to succeed.

Patrick Thean: 00:02:51

So at the day, it comes back down to, can you execute your strategy?

Patrick Thean: 00:02:56

Cause most CEOs I talked to have a strategy.

Tim Winders: 00:03:00

we're going to come back to the execution, but I want to ask some

Tim Winders: 00:03:04

questions about the, we, cause we have a lot of leaders, a lot of people with

Tim Winders: 00:03:10

different type organizations that listen in here and when we say CEO, I think

Tim Winders: 00:03:17

I, I conjure up visions of big, large corporations, but can you do a little bit

Tim Winders: 00:03:22

better defining what do you, when you say CEO, talk a little bit more about that.

Patrick Thean: 00:03:25

Yeah.

Patrick Thean: 00:03:26

so we typically work with clients, which are in the mid market or smaller.

Patrick Thean: 00:03:30

So basically when I say CEO, I mean anyone who runs a company and

Patrick Thean: 00:03:34

really the stuff that we do extends to the leader and their teams.

Patrick Thean: 00:03:38

So it's not just, it's not just a CEO.

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I was on a coaching call with a client recently.

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And I had to share with him, I said, success is not just based on you.

Patrick Thean: 00:03:48

success starts with you, yes, but success then percolates to your teams

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and can your leaders all execute.

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So we have a framework of success that helps you get focused,

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get aligned with each other and accountable to your commitments.

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And so that process extends.

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To the teams, not just the leader of the company, but to the teams and then to

Patrick Thean: 00:04:11

answer your question a bit more directly, we typically work with companies that

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have, at least 100 people or more.

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And we help them with three ways you know we have a methodology

Patrick Thean: 00:04:23

that gives them a framework to have all the right discussions to

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get focus aligned and accountable.

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We help them with software.

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That documents the bowls so that accountability can become real.

Patrick Thean: 00:04:35

Then we provide coaching and consulting to help them create

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the correct plans and to help them improve their performance habits.

Patrick Thean: 00:04:44

success really comes from, unfortunately, I say, unfortunately, because it's

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hard getting the right habits.

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And learning them and then practicing them, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:04:54

It's if I'm trying to lose weight and you said to me, Patrick,

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you to go run three miles a day.

Patrick Thean: 00:04:59

That's great.

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So today I go run three miles.

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I come back to, I say, Tim, I did my three miles.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:03

And you say, that's great, Patrick.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:04

but you got to do that tomorrow and the day after and the day after and

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the day after I had to keep doing it.

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Otherwise, I'm not going to lose weight.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:11

If I just ran three miles one day.

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And I said, Tim, I'm done.

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You'd be like, you're not done.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:16

You just did it one day.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:17

You got to keep doing it.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:18

doing well in the company, running a successful company is the same.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:22

it, if you are doing it really well, your rhythm should get boring.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:27

Like you should have a rhythm that is consistent that your employees,

Patrick Thean: 00:05:31

your team members can all depend on.

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and then.

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And then life becomes transparent and becomes, how should I say, the rhythm

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becomes part of you so that things just happen like you're breathing.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:43

Aren't you happy you don't have to tell your body to breathe?

Patrick Thean: 00:05:46

aren't you happy you don't have to go...

Patrick Thean: 00:05:47

Oh, I forgot to breathe.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:49

Oh yes.

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I feel better now.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:50

it's just natural.

Patrick Thean: 00:05:52

Therefore, a couple of performs well when it has a natural rhythm built

Patrick Thean: 00:05:56

in with people having natural habits.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:00

But every time I say the word natural, I realized that it's really not natural.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:03

It's really intentional and highly trained.

Tim Winders: 00:06:07

Yeah, that's a good word.

Tim Winders: 00:06:08

I love the word rhythms that I saw when, we were doing some research and all on you

Tim Winders: 00:06:12

that it seems like, the, the book rhythms, the rhythm systems, which I think is your

Tim Winders: 00:06:17

company and your structure seems like the word rhythm means quite a bit to you.

Tim Winders: 00:06:22

Is that correct?

Patrick Thean: 00:06:23

Very much Very much I've learned that nothing is done one time.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:28

if you want to succeed in anything, you got to get into a rhythm, you got to get

Patrick Thean: 00:06:32

into a cadence, you got to do it over and over again, and you're gonna get better.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:37

So it's like turning the flywheel, one click at a time, you get better and

Patrick Thean: 00:06:41

better until it's until it becomes, like I said, highly intentional

Patrick Thean: 00:06:45

and natural at the same time.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:47

So what I've discovered, Tim, is that when you've had.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:49

When a person, and this applies to both a person and a company, when you

Patrick Thean: 00:06:54

are inundated with a lot of stress, now stress comes in multiple ways.

Patrick Thean: 00:06:58

Stress comes with opportunities.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:00

Stress comes with problems.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:02

To your body, it's all the same.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:04

Opportunity comes, it's good stress, but it still hits your body.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:07

challenges come, crises come, it's all stress.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:11

So what I've learned is that, We all need a rhythm to process that, to, to process

Patrick Thean: 00:07:17

that, to execute that, to then reflect and learn from that, so we do better tomorrow.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:22

So if you come all the way down to what I call a micro

Patrick Thean: 00:07:25

rhythm, it's even for yourself.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:27

I, for example, I open up my day every day by taking a couple

Patrick Thean: 00:07:31

of minutes to be grateful.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:32

to God for, and I think of three people that I thank God for and pray for them.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:37

And then I go into what did I learn yesterday?

Patrick Thean: 00:07:40

Could be good, could be bad, but I learned something yesterday.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:42

And then I open up my calendar and I prioritize my day.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:45

What are my three things we can get done today?

Patrick Thean: 00:07:47

I call that my 10, 10, 10 process, because, if you have enough time, it

Patrick Thean: 00:07:51

should take 10, 10, 10, 30 minutes.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:54

10 minutes to be gratified, gratitude to Jesus, to God, and just relax.

Patrick Thean: 00:07:58

And then 10 minutes to reflect and learn from yesterday.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:01

And then 10 minutes to prioritize your day.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:04

Now, some of my clients can't get that done.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:06

I say, that's fine.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:07

Do 5, 5, 5.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:09

Can't get that done?

Patrick Thean: 00:08:10

Do 2, 2, 2.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:11

Can't get that done?

Patrick Thean: 00:08:12

Do 1, 1, 1.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:13

You got to tell me you can't, you got to at least find 5

Patrick Thean: 00:08:16

minutes to begin your day right.

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And if in the end of the day.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:20

If you do a 5 5, if you do a 1 1 1 or 2 2 2, that accounts to maybe 2% of all

Patrick Thean: 00:08:27

the time that God gave you in a day.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:30

can we not even take one to two percent just to refresh

Patrick Thean: 00:08:33

ourselves and get a day right?

Patrick Thean: 00:08:34

So that's what I call a micro rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:36

if you can do that on a daily basis, that would really help people,

Patrick Thean: 00:08:41

achieve more results for themselves.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:43

So that's a rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:08:44

That's a micro rhythm.

Tim Winders: 00:08:45

So Patrick, what is the difference?

Tim Winders: 00:08:47

I love this conversation.

Tim Winders: 00:08:48

I think this is extremely valuable to anyone in a, we'll call it a leadership

Tim Winders: 00:08:53

role because I think the clients you work with, yes, it's valuable there, let's

Tim Winders: 00:08:58

just talk about someone who's head of a family or head of a small organization,

Tim Winders: 00:09:02

ministry, anything like that.

Tim Winders: 00:09:03

But tell me.

Tim Winders: 00:09:05

What the difference is, if there is between a rhythm and a habit,

Tim Winders: 00:09:10

if there is, or at least what's the contrast or how do they, how are they

Tim Winders: 00:09:13

similar and how are they different?

Patrick Thean: 00:09:15

Yeah.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:16

so when I say get into a rhythm, I would say that, you literally get into

Patrick Thean: 00:09:20

rhythm, get into a rhythm of reflection, of thinking, of planning and doing, in

Patrick Thean: 00:09:26

a company rhythm, we specify you do a weekly rhythm for your company, you do a

Patrick Thean: 00:09:30

monthly rhythm, and then you do a planning rhythm that is quarterly and annually.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:35

Okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:36

Your rhythm does become a habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:38

It does.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:39

However, in when you're practicing this rhythm, there are a number of other habits

Patrick Thean: 00:09:44

that you need to do in order to do well.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:47

So I would say that a rhythm puts you into a cadence where you can practice

Patrick Thean: 00:09:51

some of these good habits, like the one I just described about opening your day.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:55

That's a habit to open your day.

Patrick Thean: 00:09:57

And getting to a daily rhythm to do that, say every morning at 6am while I'm having

Patrick Thean: 00:10:03

coffee or before I have coffee, I spend time with the Lord, I do this rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:07

So that's putting me into a rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:10

And if I can calendar that, That's a rhythm now.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:14

So if I have a fixed rhythm to do that, it makes it much easier

Patrick Thean: 00:10:17

for me to exercise the habit of opening and reflecting on my day.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:22

So for example, I do this very, I do this pretty well, but when I go on vacation.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:29

I have trouble doing it.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:30

Why?

Patrick Thean: 00:10:31

Because my rhythm got messed up.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:33

See?

Patrick Thean: 00:10:33

when my rhythm gets messed up, I'm flying over here, I'm taking a tour,

Patrick Thean: 00:10:37

so I gotta go, okay, my habit of reflecting and opening my day, today

Patrick Thean: 00:10:42

I gotta do it at 6am, tomorrow I gotta do it at 7am, the day after that

Patrick Thean: 00:10:46

I gotta do it at 5am because of my travel when I'm on a holiday, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:10:50

On a vacation.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:51

So that's when the rhythm is out of sync.

Patrick Thean: 00:10:53

And I promise you, if your rhythm gets broken and you go on this vacation,

Patrick Thean: 00:10:57

you come back and you realize you say, wow, the 10 day vacation I

Patrick Thean: 00:11:01

took, I only reflected and opened up my day four to five times out of 10

Patrick Thean: 00:11:06

days because my rhythm was broken.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:10

And when my rhythm is broken, it's not unconscious anymore

Patrick Thean: 00:11:13

or subconscious anymore.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:14

I got to really find specific time to do something.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:18

I have a, one of my guys that works with me, Ryan, he's a pastor.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:22

I joke with him.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:22

I say, you work for me by day and you work for God by night.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:26

but he's a pastor and he runs a church or he ministers in a church

Patrick Thean: 00:11:30

that believes in tent making.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:31

so all the three passes there have jobs in the real world.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:35

and with Ryan, I pray with him once a week on Mondays, and if something happens

Patrick Thean: 00:11:40

and we missed that day, for example, we'll be trying to schedule a time to

Patrick Thean: 00:11:45

pray, but oftentimes we can't seem to get it in before the weekends, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:11:50

So that's the difference, or the complementary of a rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:53

So we have a rhythm to pray every Monday at two o'clock.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:57

And if we, and it's a habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:11:59

So if whatever reason he's on vacation or I'm on a different time zone and

Patrick Thean: 00:12:02

we can't do that, we will try our very best to reschedule during that week.

Patrick Thean: 00:12:07

Sometimes we achieve it.

Patrick Thean: 00:12:08

Sometimes we don't, but the rhythm helps make sure that your habits.

Patrick Thean: 00:12:14

Being practiced?

Tim Winders: 00:12:15

And I think people will find that if like you and Ryan missed two

Tim Winders: 00:12:19

weeks, three weeks, then sometimes it.

Tim Winders: 00:12:23

disappears, what does it do for you?

Tim Winders: 00:12:25

I'm just curious.

Tim Winders: 00:12:26

This is a curiosity question because my wife tells me when I don't do my rhythm

Tim Winders: 00:12:34

or my habits, my morning routine, that at times I could be a little bit grouchy

Tim Winders: 00:12:40

or a little off or something like that.

Tim Winders: 00:12:42

and I don't like that.

Tim Winders: 00:12:43

I would like to at times be more.

Tim Winders: 00:12:45

Flexible.

Tim Winders: 00:12:47

I'm very much a creature of habit.

Tim Winders: 00:12:49

Now I know some people listening, they're hearing this going, Oh my

Tim Winders: 00:12:52

gosh, that seems so restrictive.

Tim Winders: 00:12:54

And the others are going, amen.

Tim Winders: 00:12:55

That's exactly what I do.

Tim Winders: 00:12:57

I'm like, I'm rigid and all that.

Tim Winders: 00:12:59

so how do we sometimes structure?

Tim Winders: 00:13:00

And I know people have families and stuff like that.

Tim Winders: 00:13:02

So talk a little bit about a little bit of, I don't even like the word balance.

Tim Winders: 00:13:06

That's not the right word, but wholeness or.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:09

I would say the following, I would say, the following I would say

Patrick Thean: 00:13:12

is, I wouldn't use the word restrictive.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:13

I would say that all of us human beings are creatures of habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:17

Even the ones who like to brag about our flexibility and our, individual craziness.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:24

And, but I promise you, most of us human beings, we're a creature of habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:29

We may not wanna admit it, but we're a creature of habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:32

So I would say that there's a difference between a habit.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:35

a rhythm or being restrictive.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:38

So my point is that, if, for example, you miss your, so the rhythm helps you

Patrick Thean: 00:13:44

to do things, I would say, unconsciously.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:49

So that's why when you miss your, your early morning start or whatever, you're

Patrick Thean: 00:13:55

thrown off for the rest of the day.

Patrick Thean: 00:13:57

And I think that Even knowing that should help you to be intentional, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:14:01

In other words, and I'm the same way.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:03

if I didn't wake up early enough, or I woke too late last night, so I didn't

Patrick Thean: 00:14:07

wake up early enough today, I can tell you that yes, I'm going to be more earthable,

Patrick Thean: 00:14:12

I'm going to be more grouchy, etc.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:14

However, That's not the job.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:17

The job of a CEO like me is to show up every day, not for me, but for my team.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:23

So then unfortunately that day, I just have to be more intentional.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:28

I have to be more self aware that Patrick, you had a bad night last night.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:32

I just have to be self aware and say, okay, I didn't get to open

Patrick Thean: 00:14:35

my day today the way I want to, but I'm now self aware and highly

Patrick Thean: 00:14:40

intentional about how I carry myself the rest of the day and I can do it.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:44

And so can you.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:45

It would take more energy.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:47

It would just take more energy that day.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:49

And you just have to understand that I'm going to be self aware,

Patrick Thean: 00:14:51

be intentional, take more energy, and then I can recover tonight.

Patrick Thean: 00:14:55

Tonight, make sure I have a good night's sleep, open up my day

Patrick Thean: 00:14:57

correctly the next day, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:14:59

So I think the rhythm helps you.

Patrick Thean: 00:15:01

Whatever rhythm you have helps you get into what I call a framework and a rhythm

Patrick Thean: 00:15:06

of success and success built upon success.

Tim Winders: 00:15:10

I love this conversation on rhythms, but the thing that keeps popping

Tim Winders: 00:15:14

in my head are work that I've done with executives and leaders, conversations

Tim Winders: 00:15:20

I've heard about people that struggle.

Tim Winders: 00:15:23

To get into rhythm.

Tim Winders: 00:15:23

I want to go back to the example you used earlier, just about the,

Tim Winders: 00:15:26

what we'll call the morning routine.

Tim Winders: 00:15:28

you said that at times you have clients, CEOs that say, I don't have 30 minutes.

Tim Winders: 00:15:35

I don't have 20 minutes.

Tim Winders: 00:15:36

I don't have 10.

Tim Winders: 00:15:37

I don't have five.

Tim Winders: 00:15:38

And what I heard when you were saying that was there's a good chance they

Tim Winders: 00:15:42

either have negative habits or habits.

Tim Winders: 00:15:45

Maybe mindsets that are preventing them or, it's another thing, maybe

Tim Winders: 00:15:50

they just don't want it bad enough.

Tim Winders: 00:15:51

I don't know.

Tim Winders: 00:15:52

What are some of the barriers and I think you and I are rhythm guys.

Tim Winders: 00:15:57

We love being in a rhythm that leads to things, but what have you

Tim Winders: 00:16:01

had to help people work through?

Tim Winders: 00:16:03

I have to do it some a lot of people are listening in going, okay, I want that.

Tim Winders: 00:16:09

But how do I break through the barrier of getting to it?

Tim Winders: 00:16:12

If I'm just struggling with, I get up in the morning and I scroll through my phone.

Tim Winders: 00:16:16

That's a bad, I think that's a bad habit, but some people

Tim Winders: 00:16:18

might be part of their job.

Tim Winders: 00:16:20

so help the people that can't quite get into a rhythm for whatever reason.

Tim Winders: 00:16:24

Some of them are in leadership roles too, by the way, they've worked their way up.

Tim Winders: 00:16:27

so help us out a little bit there.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:30

So there are two things I would share with you.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:33

One is the concept of.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:34

Owners owning versus being a victim.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:38

So God gave you and me the same amount of time, 24 hours a day.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:44

so why is it that some people can do it and some people can't, I would

Patrick Thean: 00:16:47

say that you go to the first own it.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:49

And accept that it's your fault that you haven't done so a lot of

Patrick Thean: 00:16:52

the folks I work with, the first part is for them to accept that when

Patrick Thean: 00:16:56

they say, I don't have enough time.

Patrick Thean: 00:16:59

That makes it sound like they're a slave to whatever it is that's

Patrick Thean: 00:17:03

happening their life versus owning it and saying, wait a minute.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:07

I own my 24 hours.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:09

I can't make enough time.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:10

By the way, I'm a big Stephen Covey fan.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:13

And, Stephen Covey fan.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:14

And he talks about, Stephen Covey talks about, his seven habits, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:17:17

Of highly effective people.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:18

One of them is put first things first.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:20

In fact, his first three habits are about helping you own yourself.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:25

And be strong yourself.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:27

Then his next three habits are about getting a team working strong.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:31

Then the seventh habit is about sharpening the saw, which is about renewal.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:35

put first things first, is about prioritization.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:37

And I would say that number one, the person has to understand

Patrick Thean: 00:17:41

that he or she owns their time.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:45

Their time belongs to them, doesn't belong to anybody else.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:47

So when people say that demands for my time agreed, but you are

Patrick Thean: 00:17:51

the supplier, you decide whether or not I'm going to give you time.

Patrick Thean: 00:17:56

Thank you for inviting me for this podcast, but I decided

Patrick Thean: 00:17:59

to accept your invitation.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:01

I could have said.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:03

I don't want to accept the invitation.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:04

So you don't want me, by the way, I'm grateful.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:07

I'm just doing this as an example.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:09

So I could say, gee, I showed up for your podcast.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:12

I didn't really want to come.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:14

but I'm now a victim of your podcast.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:17

Or I could say, no.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:19

You invited me.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:21

I chose to come.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:22

I'm now here.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:23

I'm happy.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:24

Same thing.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:25

So when people say they don't have time, first, I want to teach

Patrick Thean: 00:18:28

them that they own their time.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:32

Nobody else owns their time.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:33

They own their time.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:35

and that's so part of that, the second lesson, which is related

Patrick Thean: 00:18:39

is the word prioritization.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:41

So a lot of people think that they're prioritizing by saying

Patrick Thean: 00:18:44

yes to a hundred things.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:46

And really, prioritization means you say yes to a couple or three or four, and then

Patrick Thean: 00:18:50

you actually say no to a bunch of things.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:51

You say no more than you say yes.

Patrick Thean: 00:18:54

So those are the two things that I would share with, leaders that I coach

Patrick Thean: 00:18:58

up front if they have trouble with, finding time to reflect on themselves.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:03

And then I would say, Tim, the third thing is sometimes, People have a

Patrick Thean: 00:19:07

misconception, or something buried in their psyche, is that when they do

Patrick Thean: 00:19:11

things for themselves, it's selfish.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:14

A lot of folks, especially folks who are taught to be giving and

Patrick Thean: 00:19:18

generous, sometimes they create an image in their own minds that to

Patrick Thean: 00:19:24

take care of themselves is selfish.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:27

when you're in the plane, and bad things happen, and the oxygen mask

Patrick Thean: 00:19:32

falls down, what do they always say?

Patrick Thean: 00:19:34

They say, first, put the oxygen mask on yourself before putting

Patrick Thean: 00:19:39

it on your kid or somebody else.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:41

Because if you can't even breathe.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:43

You can't help somebody over there who can't breathe.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:46

So step one is put the oxygen mask on yourself, then you help your child.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:51

Same thing here is I want people to really understand that first they

Patrick Thean: 00:19:55

got to take care of themselves.

Patrick Thean: 00:19:57

They shouldn't feel guilty that they need time to improve

Patrick Thean: 00:20:00

themselves, and help themselves grow.

Patrick Thean: 00:20:04

So I found that a lot of leaders who are servant leaders sometimes get the

Patrick Thean: 00:20:09

wrong impression to be a servant leader you're supposed to serve the others and

Patrick Thean: 00:20:14

therefore you don't take care of yourself.

Patrick Thean: 00:20:16

You eat last right leaders eat last.

Patrick Thean: 00:20:19

Yes, in many ways, leaders should eat last, but in many ways, if you

Patrick Thean: 00:20:24

don't fill yourself with what you need to, you would be too empty to

Patrick Thean: 00:20:30

serve others so there's that balance.

Tim Winders: 00:20:33

they eat last, but they still eat.

Tim Winders: 00:20:35

It's not like they starve.

Tim Winders: 00:20:36

It's not like they're on a hunger strike because everyone else is eating.

Tim Winders: 00:20:39

I like that.

Tim Winders: 00:20:40

I like that analogy.

Tim Winders: 00:20:41

I had a flashback to the gosh, it had to be the early nineties when I was teaching

Tim Winders: 00:20:46

time management in the corporate setting.

Tim Winders: 00:20:49

And I remember saying this often.

Tim Winders: 00:20:52

And I haven't said this in a while, but you brought it, you gave me a flashback.

Tim Winders: 00:20:56

It's if you don't own your time, someone else will, and that sounds a

Tim Winders: 00:21:01

little harsh now, but it goes to, I've got one more kind of general question

Tim Winders: 00:21:06

for, I want to do some background on you and then we're going to talk about

Tim Winders: 00:21:08

your book and some of your processes and structures, but you brought up the

Tim Winders: 00:21:13

word victim and the reason that is.

Tim Winders: 00:21:17

Kind of welling around inside of me right now is just having a conversation

Tim Winders: 00:21:20

the other day with the leader of an organization and we're on the same page

Tim Winders: 00:21:25

with our thought process and we were talking about some of their teams And

Tim Winders: 00:21:29

some of the people with the company and unfortunately, we might have been

Tim Winders: 00:21:33

commiserating about a certain generation.

Tim Winders: 00:21:35

I hate doing that.

Tim Winders: 00:21:36

You can't lump people together we're 50 plus and we were talking about

Tim Winders: 00:21:40

a generation maybe in the 25 to 35 range And we were talking about that

Tim Winders: 00:21:45

victim mindset and how challenging it can be And we were just wondering if

Tim Winders: 00:21:51

we're seeing more of that if there's a lot more out there You know, how are

Tim Winders: 00:21:56

we going to work with it as leaders?

Tim Winders: 00:21:57

How are we going to run teams and things like that?

Tim Winders: 00:21:59

And I know we've got some practical things we may talk about in just a moment, but

Tim Winders: 00:22:03

talk about in general, or are we seeing more of that mindset in today's world?

Tim Winders: 00:22:09

Are you seeing it creep in even to people that have reached the executive suite

Tim Winders: 00:22:15

level, because years past right or wrong, people would not have reached those

Tim Winders: 00:22:21

levels of leadership with that mindset.

Tim Winders: 00:22:23

So what are you seeing just related to what we'll just throw a lump

Tim Winders: 00:22:27

into victim mindset, because I think we're going to have to deal with it.

Patrick Thean: 00:22:31

Yeah.

Patrick Thean: 00:22:31

So I don't know that I'm seeing that.

Patrick Thean: 00:22:33

I think that I'm seeing more of the world is more socially aware.

Patrick Thean: 00:22:39

And I think that the people are putting more power, giving up more power to

Patrick Thean: 00:22:48

what the social media tells them.

Patrick Thean: 00:22:50

So what that means to me is that you gotta be careful not to let the social

Patrick Thean: 00:22:56

medias and social stuff rule your life, but you can, it's easy to, it's easy to

Patrick Thean: 00:23:01

fall into that, so I don't know that's a victim mindset as much of a, I feel judged

Patrick Thean: 00:23:08

by social media, and so I need to, solve that problem, and I think it's a fine line

Patrick Thean: 00:23:14

between saying, look, maybe I shouldn't care as much, I shouldn't care as much

Patrick Thean: 00:23:19

about what people have to say about me.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:21

I should be more real.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:23

So I think the challenge is what I'm seeing is that it may be harder to get

Patrick Thean: 00:23:29

to the real person for the person to feel vulnerable enough to share what

Patrick Thean: 00:23:34

is really happening with them because they're afraid that, something gets

Patrick Thean: 00:23:39

out there that they would and could be judged and it'd be difficult to solve.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:44

So I see that more as a victim mindset, more as a, Hey, social

Patrick Thean: 00:23:49

media is more powerful now.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:50

I got to be careful.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:52

I don't want to be so transparent.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:54

I want to be less vulnerable.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:56

I want to be more politically correct.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:58

Things like that.

Patrick Thean: 00:23:58

That's what I, that's what I see.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:00

So I think that in a company.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:04

You have a lot that you can control.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:05

You can control your culture, your core values in such a way that rewards

Patrick Thean: 00:24:10

transparency, vulnerability, and reduces judgmentalism as much as possible.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:16

so for example, in my firm, we, we have a core value called

Patrick Thean: 00:24:21

no thinly disguised contempt.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:23

What that really means is that if you've wronged me in any way, shape, or form,

Patrick Thean: 00:24:27

I need to clean my slate with you.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:28

I need to come to you and say, Hey, Tim, when you said that the

Patrick Thean: 00:24:30

other day, it hurt my feelings.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:32

I don't know if you knew what you meant, but this is what I felt and clear the air.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:37

what this came from my first.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:40

But he actually, when I found that I had a lot of really intelligent

Patrick Thean: 00:24:43

programmers, software company, and the trouble of really intelligent people

Patrick Thean: 00:24:47

is really intelligent people also get really offended really quickly

Patrick Thean: 00:24:51

or really disappointed very quickly.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:53

They have very high standards.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:54

And if you miss their standard, they get disappointed.

Patrick Thean: 00:24:57

And then if you layer in an inability to resolve conflict, now I avoid you.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:02

So when I avoid you is like this guy's content, you disappointed me.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:06

Instead of resolving it, I now avoid you.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:09

and so the way it shows up is that, Hey, Tim, I want you

Patrick Thean: 00:25:11

to work with Jack over here.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:13

and you would say, Patrick, Jack's a good guy, but why don't you put

Patrick Thean: 00:25:15

him on the other person's team?

Patrick Thean: 00:25:17

I don't really want him on my team.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:18

Why is that?

Patrick Thean: 00:25:19

no, he's a good guy.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:20

He's a good guy, but I just don't really enjoy working with him.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:23

Why is that?

Patrick Thean: 00:25:24

I don't really know.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:25

you do know, you just don't want to tell me.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:27

So in my firm, we have this core value called no thinly disguised

Patrick Thean: 00:25:32

contempt where we need to resolve.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:35

That's hard to do.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:37

That's hard to do.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:37

And then the second thing I would say is that I've also tried my

Patrick Thean: 00:25:40

very best to instill a mindset that it's okay to make mistakes.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:44

In fact, when you make mistakes and you tell me bad news, the first

Patrick Thean: 00:25:48

thing I would say is thank you.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:50

Thank you for letting me know that, Tim, that went wrong.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:52

Now we can go fix it together.

Patrick Thean: 00:25:54

So those are a couple of mindsets and values that we've put in place

Patrick Thean: 00:25:58

to try and create an atmosphere where people don't feel judged if they made

Patrick Thean: 00:26:02

a mistake, and have also have the ability and the tools to come back to

Patrick Thean: 00:26:07

people and say, Hey, did I wrong you just now or did I upset you or hey,

Patrick Thean: 00:26:12

you upset me just now and resolve that.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:15

And I believe that can improve vulnerability and performance.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:19

So I believe that, or what I've seen actually is that, a team cannot really

Patrick Thean: 00:26:24

reach peak performance if they're not willing to be transparent to each other.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:30

Unfortunately, transparency needs vulnerability.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:33

So if you're not willing to be vulnerable.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:36

You won't be transparent because I'm afraid now, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:26:39

if I'm afraid of you hitting me, I'm not going to be transparent.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:42

So you almost need vulnerability.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:44

Then you lay on transparency.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:46

Now we can talk about what we want to achieve as a team.

Patrick Thean: 00:26:50

Get focused, aligned, accountable to achieve the results.

Tim Winders: 00:26:54

I think many individuals, leaders, and also I think people on teams,

Tim Winders: 00:26:59

I think they struggle with vulnerability and transparency as it especially relates

Tim Winders: 00:27:08

to being strong, powerful, and decisive.

Tim Winders: 00:27:12

It's like those.

Tim Winders: 00:27:14

Those three or four or five traits, whatever, they don't

Tim Winders: 00:27:17

seem to live in the same body.

Tim Winders: 00:27:20

I know for me, my personality is wired.

Tim Winders: 00:27:23

I'm a, I grew up in the seventies, came into business, started

Tim Winders: 00:27:27

first company in the eighties.

Tim Winders: 00:27:28

And I was just like, Strong, pretty bold and vulnerable and transparent

Tim Winders: 00:27:35

would not have been words that would have been used to describe me.

Tim Winders: 00:27:40

I don't, you think people maybe are still struggling a little bit with

Tim Winders: 00:27:43

that, with the, the culture we're in.

Patrick Thean: 00:27:45

Especially folks that are my age, your age, who come from

Patrick Thean: 00:27:48

the baby boomer section of the world.

Patrick Thean: 00:27:51

I would say that.

Patrick Thean: 00:27:53

My message to all the leaders who have this kind of experience is God

Patrick Thean: 00:27:57

has given you fantastic experience.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:00

Now the question is, how do you not use your experience?

Patrick Thean: 00:28:04

As a repetitive thing.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:06

How do you use it as a sieve to, to use your experience, but based on the

Patrick Thean: 00:28:11

cultural, changes that happened today.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:14

yes, the world is gentle.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:15

I would say that, running a company in the 80s and 90s.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:18

you could, you, you could be a lot more direct, but by the way, a lot

Patrick Thean: 00:28:23

of people think that, you can be direct without being a jerk, too.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:27

You can be tough and kind at the same time, and I think that the challenge

Patrick Thean: 00:28:31

that we're now presented with is to be able to be non dualistic in our thinking.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:36

there are a lot of myths, I call these myths, where people think, oh, to

Patrick Thean: 00:28:40

be, to be a good, boss with results.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:44

You got to be a jerk.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:45

You got to be tough.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:46

You can't be kind.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:47

And I got to tell you, all Singapore boys, I'm from Singapore and all

Patrick Thean: 00:28:50

Singapore boys serve in the military.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:53

Therefore.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:54

Now it's two years, but when I was growing up, it was two and a half years.

Patrick Thean: 00:28:57

And so I went through the Singapore military and I, I went to officer

Patrick Thean: 00:29:00

school and I came out as an officer.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:02

And I remember one day, one of my men did something wrong and

Patrick Thean: 00:29:05

I brought him to my office.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:07

And usually the officers in the military, they're yelling at you.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:10

They're yelling profanities and they're going.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:13

this and that and tough guy thing and so I, I said, I talked to my guy and I said,

Patrick Thean: 00:29:17

Hey, these are the things you did wrong.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:19

Do you understand that?

Patrick Thean: 00:29:20

He said, yes, sir, I do.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:21

Okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:22

help me understand how you understand it.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:24

Like we walked through it all and we were done.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:27

I said, all right, on your way out there, see the stuff Sergeant

Patrick Thean: 00:29:30

and take two extra weekend duties.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:32

He was stunned.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:34

He said, sir, I'm sorry, sir.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:35

I said.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:36

You heard me.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:37

On the way out, see Staff Sergeant and take two extra duties.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:42

And he looked at me and goes, wow, oh, he couldn't process.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:45

He was like, what he was thinking was, but you didn't yell at me.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:49

You didn't shout profanities at me.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:51

You didn't do any of that, er stuff, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:29:53

And he was a little bit confused.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:54

And I said, Corporal, there are consequences.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:57

To your actions.

Patrick Thean: 00:29:58

You understand that, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:30:00

He said, yes, sir.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:01

I said, so just because they didn't get mad at you, didn't yell

Patrick Thean: 00:30:04

at you, doesn't mean you don't have to face the consequences.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:07

You understand that, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:30:09

He thought about it for a minute.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:10

He said, I do now, sir.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:12

I said, good.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:12

So go out there, see Staff Sergeant, take extra duties.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:16

He said, I got it.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:17

And he went out.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:17

So my point is dualistic thinking.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:20

I'm going to yell at you, shout at you, punch you in the

Patrick Thean: 00:30:22

face, take two extra duties.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:25

No.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:25

Instead, I was kind to him, I explained it to him, I wanted to make sure

Patrick Thean: 00:30:29

he wouldn't do it again, and go out there and take two extra duties.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:32

I think that we have a lot of, we have a lot of models in our head

Patrick Thean: 00:30:37

that cause us to be dualistic in our thinking, You can't be tough.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:41

for example, most people would say, Hey, why don't you hold that person

Patrick Thean: 00:30:44

accountable to achieving the results?

Patrick Thean: 00:30:46

And they would say, Well, I don't want to be a jerk.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:49

I didn't ask you to be a jerk.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:50

I asked you to hold him accountable to achieving results.

Patrick Thean: 00:30:54

Why is that being a jerk?

Patrick Thean: 00:30:56

Because that person has in his mind two models.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:01

I can either be tough or kind.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:06

And I'm saying, no, you got to be tough and kind.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:11

And then I explain why.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:12

So let's say you work for me and you're not doing very well.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:15

And I don't correct you.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:16

I don't teach you.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:17

And therefore a year from now, I can't promote you.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:20

And therefore three years from now, I have to fire you for non performance.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:23

Am I being kind?

Patrick Thean: 00:31:25

No, actually three years ago, I should have said, Tim, these are the three

Patrick Thean: 00:31:30

things you did that are going to stop you from progressing in your career.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:35

Would you like to learn about them?

Patrick Thean: 00:31:37

You probably would say, yes, what am I doing that's stopping me

Patrick Thean: 00:31:40

from progressing in my career?

Patrick Thean: 00:31:42

And I will tell you, you don't come to work on time.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:45

You deliver work to me late.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:47

And by the way, you made too many mistakes in your programs.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:50

Can you fix those three things, please?

Patrick Thean: 00:31:53

Wow.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:54

Okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:31:55

I, what did I just do?

Patrick Thean: 00:31:56

I just coached you and taught you and helped you become better.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:00

I'm not being a jerk.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:02

I'm not being, but I'm being tough.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:04

I'm letting you know, if you don't fix these three things, you probably

Patrick Thean: 00:32:07

can't look towards a promotion.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:09

So if you don't fix these three things, next year, when it comes

Patrick Thean: 00:32:12

time to promotion or discussions and you, and I say, Hey, Tim, you're

Patrick Thean: 00:32:16

not getting promoted this year.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:17

You go, Patrick, why?

Patrick Thean: 00:32:18

I said, I pointed out three things to you, didn't I?

Patrick Thean: 00:32:21

You show up to work on time and you write code a certain way.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:24

You need a certain thing.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:26

You didn't do it.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:27

So I'm sorry.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:28

You're not getting promoted.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:29

but then a year later when you, when we talk about promotions

Patrick Thean: 00:32:32

and salary increases, I come up with a nonsensical reason, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:32:37

I say things like, you don't have enough experience compared to Jack

Patrick Thean: 00:32:40

over there who's getting promoted.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:42

But in my brain, I'm thinking, you don't do good work.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:46

so I need to tell you, look, you're not doing great work.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:49

All right.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:50

You're making too many mistakes.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:50

You're not showing up on time.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:52

So I'm not being a jerk.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:53

I'm actually being kind because I'm helping you get better.

Patrick Thean: 00:32:57

for audience listening in, think about the best managers you've

Patrick Thean: 00:33:00

ever worked for, which ones of them that you respect the most.

Patrick Thean: 00:33:05

I promise you, it's going to come back to the managers that

Patrick Thean: 00:33:07

did what I just described.

Patrick Thean: 00:33:10

They were able to tell you some tough things, hold you to a higher standard,

Patrick Thean: 00:33:14

and maybe even the best ones would expect you to achieve something that maybe you

Patrick Thean: 00:33:20

didn't even think you could achieve, but they held you to a higher standard,

Patrick Thean: 00:33:23

and they coached you, and you got there.

Patrick Thean: 00:33:26

Those were probably tough managers.

Patrick Thean: 00:33:28

They were not nice managers who didn't tell you what you had to improve.

Tim Winders: 00:33:34

the thing to me and I think we'll talk about this in just

Tim Winders: 00:33:37

a moment because I think it's part of your system is that it seems as

Tim Winders: 00:33:41

if we have a lack of or maybe we just don't have as many people that are

Tim Winders: 00:33:47

willing to have mature, focused, timely conversations in the world we're in today.

Tim Winders: 00:33:55

I want to hold that thought.

Tim Winders: 00:33:57

For one second.

Tim Winders: 00:33:57

And I want to get to that in just a moment, but I want to back up a second

Tim Winders: 00:34:02

because one of the things we do here is we talk about redefining success and

Tim Winders: 00:34:08

how people come to be where they are.

Tim Winders: 00:34:09

And you brought up a couple of things that I can't leave.

Tim Winders: 00:34:13

You brought up that you were in the military in Singapore, you grew up there.

Tim Winders: 00:34:17

And then also know that you had a company that led to an exit a few years back.

Tim Winders: 00:34:22

So what I would love for us to do here in a few minutes is just

Tim Winders: 00:34:25

let's give a little bit of Patrick.

Tim Winders: 00:34:27

I joke at times the early years or whatever, tell us whatever you think

Tim Winders: 00:34:31

might be pertinent to the conversation of redefining success and how you

Tim Winders: 00:34:35

came to be who you are and come up with the thought processes and the

Tim Winders: 00:34:39

systems and the rhythms you have now.

Tim Winders: 00:34:41

Just fill in the gaps a little bit, either the way you grew up a

Tim Winders: 00:34:44

military and then how'd you, how you got in the business world,

Patrick Thean: 00:34:48

I would share with you that I'm an engineer.

Patrick Thean: 00:34:50

So I'm an electrical engineer.

Patrick Thean: 00:34:52

and I think that I've been very blessed.

Patrick Thean: 00:34:55

I had a wonderful childhood where I was highly encouraged to express myself.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:00

Now that's unique coming from Singapore, a country that is very steeped in rules.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:04

But, I was always encouraged to express myself.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:07

And so I came to the U.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:09

S.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:09

to study.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:10

And I think that, so I'm a child of East and West, I grew up in

Patrick Thean: 00:35:13

Singapore, 17 years, came to U.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:15

S., went to Cornell University.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:17

And then I went to work for Oracle.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:18

Now, when I went to work for Oracle, after my military, I went to work for Oracle.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:22

Oracle today is a multi billion dollar, one of the best, biggest

Patrick Thean: 00:35:25

software companies in the world.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:27

Back then it was about a 500 million firm.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:29

And it was growing at 100% a year.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:32

So I think that, I would encourage, first of all, the young people.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:35

I would tell you that your first job is really important.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:38

And I think that I was very fortunate to be put into Oracle.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:43

And Oracle is a place that encouraged individualism thinking, encouraged you

Patrick Thean: 00:35:47

to put yourself out there to go forward.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:50

Now Oracle isn't All perfect either.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:52

Oracle, I think was a tough place to survive.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:54

if you wouldn't, it was definitely a dog eat dog world when I was there

Patrick Thean: 00:35:57

back in the eighties, late eighties.

Patrick Thean: 00:35:59

And if you didn't perform in a couple of quarters, you'd be cut.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:03

So Oracle was a tough place to work, but one, one of the few things I think these

Patrick Thean: 00:36:09

are the things that made me successful.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:12

Number one, I was fortunate enough to have a lot of love in my life.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:17

And so I have a healthy ego I have a healthy ego.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:22

but secondly, I also have enough humility to learn.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:28

And I remember this one guy at Oracle, my, my first year there, he was upset

Patrick Thean: 00:36:33

with our programming and he yelled at me and the senior consultant.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:37

And he yelled at us and he called us amateurs.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:41

The senior consultant came to me and she was furious.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:44

She said, how can Mike call us amateurs?

Patrick Thean: 00:36:46

That is so unprofessional, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:50

And I thought about it and I thought, yeah, that hurt my ego a little bit.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:53

But I said to her, I said, he's right.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:55

We're amateurs.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:57

Yeah, but he didn't have to say that.

Patrick Thean: 00:36:59

And I'm like, yeah, but okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:01

But he's right.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:02

Code we wrote was bad.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:04

We're in a customer that has, that expects delivery.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:07

And we didn't do a good job.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:09

So she got all mad with Mike and she walked off.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:12

I took the other route.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:13

I went up to Mike and I said, Hey, Mike, you called me an amateur just now.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:18

And Mike got to fight mode.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:20

He was like, yeah.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:21

So what about it?

Patrick Thean: 00:37:22

What about it?

Patrick Thean: 00:37:23

And I said, Mike, you are right.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:28

I'm a man.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:28

No, he said, what are you gonna do about it?

Patrick Thean: 00:37:30

So I said, Mike, you're right.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:32

I'm an amateur.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:33

It's not what I'm going to do about it.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:34

It's what are you willing to do about it?

Patrick Thean: 00:37:37

Because what do you mean?

Patrick Thean: 00:37:38

I said, I want to learn what you teach me.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:41

So instead of me, I could have chosen to be like the other person

Patrick Thean: 00:37:45

and gone all upset and offended.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:46

He called me an amateur.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:48

But I didn't.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:49

I recognized that this guy was one of the best programmers that we had in the team.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:55

The best, actually, on our team.

Patrick Thean: 00:37:57

And...

Patrick Thean: 00:37:58

I asked him, I said, will you teach me now?

Patrick Thean: 00:38:00

I just graduated university.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:01

So he made fun of me.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:03

He said, she's a well college boy, Ivy league boy.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:06

He said, it'll be homework.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:08

They'll be homework.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:09

I'll give you homework every night.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:11

And I laughed.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:12

I said, bring it on, Mike, if you're willing to teach me, give me homework.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:14

I will deliver homework every morning.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:16

He laughed.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:17

He goes, you college boys, I swear, but okay, fine.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:19

I'll teach you.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:20

And I'll give you homework every single day.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:21

You miss one homework assignment.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:23

I'll stop teaching you.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:24

And I just worked every night and anything he gave me, I worked on and I became a

Patrick Thean: 00:38:29

great programmer in six months, I learned what most people would have taken them

Patrick Thean: 00:38:34

four or five years to learn it all.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:38

I got this guy to teach me in an intense way every single day.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:43

that was incredible.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:45

So for me, I think one thing that is part of my makeup is

Patrick Thean: 00:38:51

that I'm very curious to learn.

Patrick Thean: 00:38:54

I am very, as much knowledge as I accumulate or as much experience as I

Patrick Thean: 00:38:59

get, I would like to approach things as though I know nothing, because I feel like

Patrick Thean: 00:39:05

if I walk into a room where I know 50%, I'm only open to learning the other 50%.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:11

But I walk the room, and I believe I know nothing.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:14

I'm going to learn 100% of whatever that person has to offer and serve me.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:18

So that's a lot of, I think, my psyche.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:23

And so when I sold my first company, We were very successful

Patrick Thean: 00:39:26

from the world looking in.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:28

We're very successful.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:29

We're Inc.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:30

500, number 151 on the Inc.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:32

500 list of privately held companies.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:34

We were Entrepreneur of the Year.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:36

We had lots of awards.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:37

But from the inside looking out, I was running from one crisis to another,

Patrick Thean: 00:39:42

solving one problem to another, and then we solved enough to survive,

Patrick Thean: 00:39:46

and every time we survived again, and then suddenly we were successful.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:50

I didn't feel as successful as everyone said I was.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:53

and I set about to understand why, and at the same time in Charlotte, North

Patrick Thean: 00:39:57

Carolina, not a lot of tech firms.

Patrick Thean: 00:39:59

with a successful exit like that, and well known exit, I had a lot of

Patrick Thean: 00:40:04

entrepreneurs come ask me for help.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:06

And as I dived into their stuff, I realized that I wasn't

Patrick Thean: 00:40:10

as dumb as I thought I was.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:12

these poor guys were making a lot of the same mistakes.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:15

And then in 1999, Fortune magazine had this article by

Patrick Thean: 00:40:19

Ram Charan called why CEOs fail.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:22

And he profiled a number of well known guys like John Sculley from Apple.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:27

And the bottom line of the article was that these CEOs fail not because of a

Patrick Thean: 00:40:32

lack of strategy, but a lack of execution.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:34

So I thought hard about that.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:36

And I agreed with that, even for a lot of the companies I help, which are younger,

Patrick Thean: 00:40:41

smaller, oftentimes they'll come to me and say, Patrick, I need a strategy.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:46

My strategy is not working.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:48

But when I dive deep into it, I realized that they actually have

Patrick Thean: 00:40:51

a good strategy, but they're executing it poorly, making mistakes.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:56

Causing rework too slow.

Patrick Thean: 00:40:59

They missed a moment in time, and then they blame it on the

Patrick Thean: 00:41:02

strategy, or they have a team that isn't working well together.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:05

It's a people problem, not a strategy problem.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:08

So most of the time, when I work with, the companies I work with today, my team

Patrick Thean: 00:41:12

does, we find and discover that Most of our clients don't have a strategy problem,

Patrick Thean: 00:41:18

even though they think they might.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:20

They either have a teamwork problem, an alignment problem, or a inability

Patrick Thean: 00:41:26

to focus and to get things done when they're promised it will get done.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:32

Tim, it's funny.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:33

people come up to me and they say, How do I hold Jack accountable?

Patrick Thean: 00:41:37

Fictitious name I always use.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:39

And usually when somebody comes to me mad and says, Patrick,

Patrick Thean: 00:41:42

how do I hold Jack accountable?

Patrick Thean: 00:41:44

What they really mean is, How do I give Jack the consequences of his failure?

Patrick Thean: 00:41:49

Not how do I hold Jack accountable?

Patrick Thean: 00:41:51

that was much earlier.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:52

Like for me, accountability is a good word.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:55

Accountability means to account.

Patrick Thean: 00:41:57

It's made up of two words, account and ability.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:00

So let's account for your ability early in the process.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:04

And account for whether or not you believe you can achieve the

Patrick Thean: 00:42:07

goal you're supposed to achieve.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:09

And you account for that early on.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:11

And if you can't do it, you ask for help.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:13

You make adjustments.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:15

You solve the problem.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:16

When you get to the end of the project, and you've failed, and people

Patrick Thean: 00:42:21

say, I gotta hold you accountable, that's actually not accountability.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:25

That's actually saying, how do I give Patrick the consequences

Patrick Thean: 00:42:28

he deserves because he failed?

Patrick Thean: 00:42:30

That's what they really mean.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:31

So accountability to me is over here in the front part and all along the way.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:36

How do I help you to be accountable to achieve what you've committed to achieve

Patrick Thean: 00:42:41

so we get there and you've achieved it?

Patrick Thean: 00:42:44

So I don't know if I answered your question.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:46

I rambled a little bit.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:46

I apologize.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:47

but you asked me about my, my, my mindset, my thinking.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:50

So my philosophy is really about.

Patrick Thean: 00:42:53

You've got to be curious, you've got to learn, you've got to be humble, you've got

Patrick Thean: 00:42:57

to, you've got to take every opportunity to experience, and then you've got to

Patrick Thean: 00:43:01

find ways to be very focused, execution is about being focused, it's about making

Patrick Thean: 00:43:08

sure the people around you are all working on the same things together, and then

Patrick Thean: 00:43:11

accounting, For your ability to achieve your goals in a different way that is

Patrick Thean: 00:43:18

successful versus just whacking you on the head of a hammer on the end of the quarter

Patrick Thean: 00:43:22

saying I'm going to hold you accountable, because you didn't achieve your goal.

Patrick Thean: 00:43:25

It's like I want to hold you accountable to achieve your goal in the very

Patrick Thean: 00:43:29

beginning and help you all along the way.

Patrick Thean: 00:43:32

That's my version of accountability, which I found.

Patrick Thean: 00:43:35

works very well to help people achieve their plans.

Tim Winders: 00:43:39

No, I think you actually did a great job of answering the question.

Tim Winders: 00:43:43

It may have veered in some different directions, but it was a good thing.

Tim Winders: 00:43:46

And let me tell you why.

Tim Winders: 00:43:49

I learn a lot in the seat that I'm in.

Tim Winders: 00:43:52

First of all, I love asking questions.

Tim Winders: 00:43:54

You could probably tell.

Tim Winders: 00:43:54

And I also love that you could really learn a lot about people by hearing.

Tim Winders: 00:44:00

I think the scripture is, out of the heart comes the issues, out of the

Tim Winders: 00:44:03

mouth comes the issues of the heart or the, we can learn a lot about people.

Tim Winders: 00:44:06

I can learn what you're passionate about, but it leads to a question

Tim Winders: 00:44:09

that I want you to define for me.

Tim Winders: 00:44:11

And it's part of what we're about here.

Tim Winders: 00:44:13

And that is how we define success.

Tim Winders: 00:44:16

My observation from just listening to you is.

Tim Winders: 00:44:20

Success you, because you mentioned the exit and see so many people

Tim Winders: 00:44:23

would want to dig down on an exits.

Tim Winders: 00:44:26

oh, what was the financial aspect of it?

Tim Winders: 00:44:28

What did it mean?

Tim Winders: 00:44:29

This and that?

Tim Winders: 00:44:30

And I'm sure all that was great, but here's what I got from it.

Tim Winders: 00:44:33

I got that.

Tim Winders: 00:44:35

You learn something.

Tim Winders: 00:44:37

It was part of a growth process and it's now helping you to

Tim Winders: 00:44:42

continue learning and growing.

Tim Winders: 00:44:44

And then sharing that with other people at the same time and helping

Tim Winders: 00:44:48

not just you keep moving along and learning and being curious but you're

Tim Winders: 00:44:52

also helping other people use the word accountability a lot, which I think

Tim Winders: 00:44:55

is which is to me a code word for helping other people grow helping other

Tim Winders: 00:45:00

people move along but All of that is my observation to then ask you the question

Tim Winders: 00:45:07

How do you define success right now?

Tim Winders: 00:45:10

You probably have done great things financially.

Tim Winders: 00:45:13

And a lot of people in our world now would say, how many cars are in the garage?

Tim Winders: 00:45:18

What does the house look like and all that?

Tim Winders: 00:45:19

And I, if that's what it is for you, that's fine.

Tim Winders: 00:45:22

I'm not going to discount it.

Tim Winders: 00:45:23

But how does Patrick say I am successful when blank?

Patrick Thean: 00:45:30

So I think you're successful when you figure out

Patrick Thean: 00:45:35

what purpose God put you here for.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:37

and you're living it.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:40

That's what I believe.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:41

for me, success is exactly what I just said.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:46

figure out what, why you're here, what does God need you to do right

Patrick Thean: 00:45:50

now, and then just rest in that.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:53

And don't resist quite as much.

Patrick Thean: 00:45:58

So what I'm trying to say is, so I believe that we all have a

Patrick Thean: 00:46:02

purpose here and the faster you figure out yours, the better it is.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:07

Unfortunately, sometimes you got to go through a lot of pain and

Patrick Thean: 00:46:11

maybe have some success and failure before you figure out yours.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:14

So let's say you figure out your purpose.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:17

That's one.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:18

The second would be to now rest in that and allow God to lead you.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:26

In that, not trying to get religious on you, but if you do it right, the load

Patrick Thean: 00:46:32

that God carries for you should be lighter than the load you carry for yourself.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:36

to some degree, oftentimes, if you find a load too heavy, that tells me, even if

Patrick Thean: 00:46:42

you know what purpose God has for you, you may be struggling too hard to get there.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:48

And you might be doing it in a way that God didn't intend you to do it anyway.

Patrick Thean: 00:46:52

so for me, I've discovered that, I have the ability to, remember and to

Patrick Thean: 00:47:00

see patterns of companies and people.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:03

And then I have an ability to help bring those back and help leaders apply

Patrick Thean: 00:47:10

that experience to their circumstances and for them to choose a better path.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:15

Some people call that coaching and I guess that's the word we would use today.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:20

So I apply that in coaching and I've then created a framework to

Patrick Thean: 00:47:25

allow you to think, plan and do in such a way that it forces you.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:30

My framework forces you to have time to reflect, learn, plan, and

Patrick Thean: 00:47:37

then do, and do it all over again.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:39

Because I find that one of the biggest problems I saw in a lot of hard charging

Patrick Thean: 00:47:44

presidents and CEOs and leaders in general was this do, do, do thing.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:49

It's like they just wake up and they just want to do like robots

Patrick Thean: 00:47:52

just keep going harder and faster.

Patrick Thean: 00:47:55

And I found that if we just Took the right amount of time to reflect work on

Patrick Thean: 00:48:01

a business, not just in the business, we would succeed faster and actually in

Patrick Thean: 00:48:06

a way that doesn't wear us out as much.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:08

So that is my calling.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:09

My calling is to serve CEOs and leaders to help them rest a little

Patrick Thean: 00:48:15

bit so that they can actually not fail, but rather be successful

Patrick Thean: 00:48:20

because the failure rate is very high.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:22

So that's my personal calling.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:24

And then I would say that, I fall into the category of, I come from a family

Patrick Thean: 00:48:29

of workaholics, so my grandfather, died at 97, Workley was 91, my dad is now

Patrick Thean: 00:48:35

90, he's a retired judge in Singapore, but he worked, he was about 85, and

Patrick Thean: 00:48:39

basically my grandfather and my dad worked until they could no longer

Patrick Thean: 00:48:43

work, my father is medically unable to work, or he'd still be working.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:47

I come from a family of workaholics.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:48

Okay, so that being said, you that's how I'm programmed.

Patrick Thean: 00:48:51

So I purposefully look at that and say, just because that's how I'm programmed,

Patrick Thean: 00:48:57

is that the road that God wants me on?

Patrick Thean: 00:49:00

Do I have to take that same road?

Patrick Thean: 00:49:01

And by, by examining that truth and asking that question, I've concluded

Patrick Thean: 00:49:08

that I don't have to take that same road.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:10

I'm still going to work hard, but serving my wife and my two girls, my,

Patrick Thean: 00:49:15

my two children is more important to me.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:18

than working hard.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:20

but that was because I was able to take the time to examine that personal truth.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:24

So we're all programmed in certain ways.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:26

I'm trying to share, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:49:27

I'm programmed to be a workaholic.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:29

Okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:29

In other words, I grew up watching my parents work hard, hard.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:33

And I still remember I had attached a room to my parents and my dad would

Patrick Thean: 00:49:39

go to his home office and work at 9 p.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:41

m.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:41

And at 12 midnight the lights turn off and my dad works really hard.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:45

He worked till 12 midnight every day.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:47

And he worked on Saturdays and Sundays.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:50

And when he retired from being a judge, I, he took a part time role.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:54

He took a role at a firm in Singapore.

Patrick Thean: 00:49:57

And I asked him, I said, Dad, are you Working, are you taking a part time role?

Patrick Thean: 00:50:00

And he's 70 years old.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:02

And he said, if I take a part time role, what I'm going to

Patrick Thean: 00:50:04

do the rest of my time, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:50:07

So he's programmed to just work.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:09

and when I, when he said that it didn't sit well with my spirit.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:15

And I thought I admire my father for the hard work.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:18

I have a very hardworking ethic.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:20

But is that my role too?

Patrick Thean: 00:50:22

Do I want to say, I don't want to say that, I can tell you this much.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:26

The answer to my question is, I do not want to say, Hey, if I only

Patrick Thean: 00:50:30

work half time, part time, why don't I do the rest of my time?

Patrick Thean: 00:50:33

No, I want to be highly intentional with my time.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:36

100% of all the time that God has given me, I want to be highly intentional.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:41

If God has called me to work 100% of the time, I will do so.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:46

But I don't want to do it just because...

Patrick Thean: 00:50:48

I think I'm supposed to.

Patrick Thean: 00:50:50

for me, understanding that I'm here to serve, CEOs, help them to lead good

Patrick Thean: 00:50:56

companies, help them create jobs, and then to be a servant, serve my wife and

Patrick Thean: 00:51:01

my two girls, help them have the best life that they can be, that they can have.

Patrick Thean: 00:51:06

That's where I am.

Tim Winders: 00:51:07

that's so good because the thing that I heard was number one,

Tim Winders: 00:51:12

the way I word it is, success for me is identifying the assignment that I

Tim Winders: 00:51:16

have in God's kingdom and then doing all I can to move into that assignment

Tim Winders: 00:51:20

and operate in it every day, which is exactly roughly what I heard from you.

Tim Winders: 00:51:24

And then

Patrick Thean: 00:51:24

And in a way that's restful,

Tim Winders: 00:51:26

it

Patrick Thean: 00:51:27

in a way that's restful, because I don't think

Patrick Thean: 00:51:29

God has called us to be crazy.

Patrick Thean: 00:51:33

I think even when God calls us to do something, the magic is in allowing the

Patrick Thean: 00:51:38

power of God to work through you, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:51:41

Allowing the power of God to work through you, so that you don't get too big of

Patrick Thean: 00:51:45

an ego either, because we have to, for me, I realize that God works through me.

Patrick Thean: 00:51:51

isn't about how good Patrick is.

Patrick Thean: 00:51:53

So that allows me to...

Patrick Thean: 00:51:55

Maintain a healthy yet not overly healthy ego, if we, if something goes right, it's

Patrick Thean: 00:52:02

great, but it's not like I did everything it's so to me is I gotta be restful.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:07

I gotta be, I gotta be still.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:09

The scripture says, be still and know that I am God.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:11

So I got to be still and allow God to operate through me, which means

Patrick Thean: 00:52:17

that when we succeed, it's not I can't, if I believe that, then I

Patrick Thean: 00:52:20

shouldn't go, Hey, I did everything.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:22

I'm, I am God's gift to you.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:24

No, I'm not.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:25

I allowed God's gift to flow through me to you.

Patrick Thean: 00:52:28

I'm not God's gift to you.

Tim Winders: 00:52:31

if we really truly believe that we are created by A

Tim Winders: 00:52:35

creator, then doesn't it make sense that we would want that creator

Tim Winders: 00:52:39

to be a part of what we're doing.

Tim Winders: 00:52:41

And maybe he, he's got the manual to help us identify

Tim Winders: 00:52:46

what it is we were created for.

Tim Winders: 00:52:49

And I love the word you use.

Tim Winders: 00:52:50

You said that you guess that word is coach in today's world.

Tim Winders: 00:52:55

I actually have.

Tim Winders: 00:52:58

Come to believe that word is actually, we are disciples, we are discipling others.

Tim Winders: 00:53:04

And some people might get uncomfortable with people saying that in a, in

Tim Winders: 00:53:08

the business world, but I think that's exactly what we're doing.

Tim Winders: 00:53:12

But this is one thing I heard, I'm watching my time and I want to

Tim Winders: 00:53:15

make sure we bridge the gap here.

Tim Winders: 00:53:17

When I heard you say the word rest, the word rhythm popped into my mind.

Tim Winders: 00:53:23

Because it, to me, it is very difficult to get into a rhythm.

Tim Winders: 00:53:28

If you don't have some degree of rest, if you're restless, we talked at the

Tim Winders: 00:53:34

beginning about how some executive CEOs, they can't ever get to a rhythm

Tim Winders: 00:53:40

of just five minutes, one minute.

Tim Winders: 00:53:42

Of this habit, there has to be some degree of rest to get into the rhythm.

Tim Winders: 00:53:49

In the time we have left here, Patrick, what I'd love for you to do is to tie

Tim Winders: 00:53:54

together what you're doing with the book rhythm, how that book's been out

Tim Winders: 00:53:59

now for almost 10 years, and it's still going strong, how you're tying that in

Tim Winders: 00:54:03

with the systems and all that you have.

Tim Winders: 00:54:06

and if you can, the thing that I really loved was.

Tim Winders: 00:54:10

How important the, we've talked some about it, but maybe you can

Tim Winders: 00:54:13

bring that in here and, just a few minutes, those mature conversations

Tim Winders: 00:54:18

to me, but with accountability and communicating that to me seems like

Tim Winders: 00:54:23

something we're really lacking.

Tim Winders: 00:54:25

So talk a little bit about that.

Tim Winders: 00:54:27

And then we've got a couple of quick things we'll finish up with

Tim Winders: 00:54:30

in the last couple of minutes, but I love how this came together.

Tim Winders: 00:54:32

That was a great answer.

Tim Winders: 00:54:34

And I think it ties a lot of this together.

Tim Winders: 00:54:35

So thank you for that.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:37

you're welcome.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:38

so what I've learned is that the corporate world is very busy.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:41

And as you get more successful, you get busier.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:43

How do you actually reclaim time?

Patrick Thean: 00:54:46

Because if you don't figure out how to do that, you cannot succeed, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:54:50

If you think about it, as your company gets bigger, You have

Patrick Thean: 00:54:53

to actually learn how to manage something bigger with less time.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:57

Otherwise, you will not be scalable.

Patrick Thean: 00:54:59

Your company gets to a certain point and you just explode or implode.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:03

So the first thing that I, that most companies have to do when they

Patrick Thean: 00:55:07

meet me is they have to have the willingness to schedule the rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:14

It's impossible to say, hey, let's get together for a two day planning session,

Patrick Thean: 00:55:18

unless you've scheduled it way in advance.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:21

If you come up to this month and you go, hey, it's time for our two day

Patrick Thean: 00:55:25

planning session, free up the calendars, no one can free up the calendar.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:29

Stressful.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:30

So what you want to do is you want to schedule your rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:32

So my rhythm.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:33

Is what I'm trying to do is I'm really trying to put things, give people and

Patrick Thean: 00:55:38

companies specific times to think, to plan, and then to do their work.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:45

And when you have framework, you can put your mind at ease.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:49

so the think rhythm is about figuring out your strategy and to make sure that

Patrick Thean: 00:55:54

you have key winning moves of growth.

Patrick Thean: 00:55:58

The key winning moves for growth become the two or three things that you're

Patrick Thean: 00:56:01

really focused on and you've prioritized above everything else in your company.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:06

That's how you know what's important.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:08

So that's the first one is you can figure out what are the key priorities we have

Patrick Thean: 00:56:12

to use to grow our firm and therefore they become the most important things.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:17

That's prioritization.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:19

The second step is on a every quarter we get together and have the right

Patrick Thean: 00:56:24

discussions and then figure out what I call your plan for the next 13 weeks

Patrick Thean: 00:56:29

because every quarter is a 13 week race.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:32

And if you can have a great year, you're going to have it one quarter at a time.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:36

And if you have four great quarters, you have a great year.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:39

Within the quarter, there are 13 weeks.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:42

And the only way to have a great quarter is to have a

Patrick Thean: 00:56:43

great week, one week at a time.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:46

So we plan for the quarter and then on a weekly basis, I have something

Patrick Thean: 00:56:51

we call a WAM, a Weekly Adjustment Meeting, different from a status meeting.

Patrick Thean: 00:56:56

Most companies have a status meeting where they come together and discuss the status.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:01

It's actually a very expensive meeting.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:03

So for me, I'm like, why come together for a status?

Patrick Thean: 00:57:06

Why don't you provide the status ahead of time, come together and solve problems.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:11

Make adjustments, look at the accountabilities and figure out what's

Patrick Thean: 00:57:15

not working and make the adjustment.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:17

Hence we call it a weekly adjustment meeting.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:19

Not a status meeting, right?

Patrick Thean: 00:57:21

So now you have a place and that's part of my do rhythm to let you do

Patrick Thean: 00:57:25

the work, and I like to say nothing happens unless you do the work.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:29

so now what happens is that when something comes up during the week, instead of

Patrick Thean: 00:57:33

going to a crisis, you can say, okay, let me park that and have that discussion

Patrick Thean: 00:57:38

in two days in my weekly meeting.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:40

And so we don't have to go crazy here now.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:43

If it's a crisis, then yes, I agree, drop everything and go take care of the crisis.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:47

But a lot of crises were created because we didn't, the company

Patrick Thean: 00:57:51

didn't have the right rhythms.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:54

To prevent the crisis.

Patrick Thean: 00:57:56

So you can either be in fire prevention mode, which is what my framework

Patrick Thean: 00:58:00

gives you a firefighting mode.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:02

So in fire prevention mode, every week you have a weekly meeting where you

Patrick Thean: 00:58:06

have the opportunity to discuss stuff.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:08

So I've given you a place.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:10

There are not that many things that happen on a weekly basis that

Patrick Thean: 00:58:13

have to be attended to right now.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:16

So executives and leaders need to learn a bit of patience to say, let's

Patrick Thean: 00:58:21

pop that into our weekly meeting and have that discussion instead of

Patrick Thean: 00:58:25

distracting and call and ringing the crisis bell and distracting all the

Patrick Thean: 00:58:28

other employees that work for us.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:31

And then usually Some wonderful idea pops up in the middle of the quarter,

Patrick Thean: 00:58:36

but a bad thing happens is that the leader goes, Oh, I got a great idea.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:40

It's week seven.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:41

Do it now.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:42

Okay.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:43

But what about all the other stuff that we had already planned?

Patrick Thean: 00:58:45

Forget that.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:46

Do this now.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:47

So I would say no.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:48

Don't do that.

Patrick Thean: 00:58:50

Instead, put that in the list of things to discuss at your quarterly

Patrick Thean: 00:58:54

planning session, where you can take that and compare it to all the other

Patrick Thean: 00:58:58

priorities that you have and make a holistic decision on whether you want to

Patrick Thean: 00:59:04

attack that new opportunity, yes or no.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:06

So some of this has is actually, I'm giving you various spots for you to put

Patrick Thean: 00:59:12

things so that you don't go into a frenzy, go into a crisis when things happen.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:17

So that is the framework.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:19

That's why the rhythm works.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:21

And that's why it creates the space.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:23

For people to rest, think, plan, do, and rest in the middle of that as well.

Tim Winders: 00:59:30

And communicate.

Tim Winders: 00:59:31

It sounds like you've got a lot of places to have those, what I called

Tim Winders: 00:59:36

earlier, mature conversations.

Tim Winders: 00:59:38

And they're on the calendar versus, oh, you know what?

Tim Winders: 00:59:42

I'll talk to your Jack you mentioned earlier.

Tim Winders: 00:59:45

I'll talk to Jack about that situation that occurred last week when we,

Tim Winders: 00:59:49

whenever I can or at the water cooler.

Tim Winders: 00:59:51

And that's usually means it doesn't happen.

Tim Winders: 00:59:54

Correct.

Patrick Thean: 00:59:55

That's

Tim Winders: 00:59:55

So you've got the structure in place.

Tim Winders: 00:59:56

All right.

Tim Winders: 00:59:57

excellent structure.

Tim Winders: 00:59:58

I love that rhythm.

Tim Winders: 01:00:00

I actually am sitting here listening, going this a lot of

Tim Winders: 01:00:02

what I quarterly, my mind works quarterly and then I chunk it down.

Tim Winders: 01:00:06

I don't think many times I loved way back when we would

Tim Winders: 01:00:10

say, what's our five year goal?

Tim Winders: 01:00:11

What's our, which I love long term planning.

Tim Winders: 01:00:14

But 90 days, man, give me 90 days.

Tim Winders: 01:00:16

And I think you do a few 90 days, you could change the world, have a huge

Tim Winders: 01:00:20

impact, Patrick, where can people find you and, give us a little info on

Tim Winders: 01:00:25

the book and where to go to get that or anything else you want to do to

Tim Winders: 01:00:28

share right here where people can get some resources and connect with you.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:32

So if you come to my website, rhythmsystems.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:35

com, there are a few things I can give you.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:37

The first is that, I have a, I have an assessment that you can take

Patrick Thean: 01:00:42

that will help you, you understand a little bit more about what you can do.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:45

And it's a free assessment.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:46

So please enjoy yourself and take that.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:49

So come to rhythmsystems.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:50

com and you can find that.

Patrick Thean: 01:00:52

Secondly, We are the first, by the way, in our category of gold

Patrick Thean: 01:00:56

management to actually create an AI powered business coach.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:00

So if you come to my website, there's a button called ask Patrick.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:04

and this is one of those where my product manager thought it was funny.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:07

So he called it, ask Patrick.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:09

And I, he announced the product and I looked at him and he

Patrick Thean: 01:01:13

announced it at our conference.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:15

And I said, Ryan, you didn't tell me you're doing that.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:17

And he said, Patrick, this is one of those times where I learned from you.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:19

It's better to ask for forgiveness.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:22

Then permission.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:22

So the product is called Ask Patrick, because he didn't ask me permission.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:26

But anyway, if you go there, it's, you can play with our AI powered business coach.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:31

So it's like having a reliable 24 by seven consultant for any strategy

Patrick Thean: 01:01:35

and execution related questions, all built around the concepts that

Patrick Thean: 01:01:40

I shared in the discussion today.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:42

so we provide about 10 free questions for people to just try

Patrick Thean: 01:01:45

it and have some fun with it.

Tim Winders: 01:01:46

Should I have interviewed AI Patrick or real Patrick?

Tim Winders: 01:01:50

should we have brought him in on this interview?

Patrick Thean: 01:01:53

absolutely.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:54

By the way, it's pretty funny because, we have two pieces of AI in our software.

Patrick Thean: 01:01:58

One is this Ask Patrick, where you can actually engage in strategic questions.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:03

In our software, we also have an AI goal setting coach, because

Patrick Thean: 01:02:07

one, one thing that is really hard is setting really good goals.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:11

So most people write goals like, Increase sales.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:13

That's not very good.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:14

So if you go into our software and you wrote as a goal increase sales,

Patrick Thean: 01:02:19

you hit the smart coach button.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:22

It uses AI to come back with three options for you may come back

Patrick Thean: 01:02:25

with stuff like increased sales by 20% by the end of this quarter.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:30

So it will actually take your thoughts.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:33

And create a goal for you that you can then accept or, Oh, I like

Patrick Thean: 01:02:38

it, but I'm going to tweak it a little bit and resubmit it to the

Patrick Thean: 01:02:41

AI goal writing coach and it will regenerate three new options for you.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:47

And I gotta tell you, I've played with it even myself and we do our planning.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:50

I'm like, all we really need to increase sales this quarter

Patrick Thean: 01:02:53

for this particular product.

Patrick Thean: 01:02:55

And I popped that in, I hit the AI coach and boom, it gave me

Patrick Thean: 01:02:58

a better version, even for me.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:00

it's fun.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:01

It's fun to play with.

Tim Winders: 01:03:03

I think there's so much there with AI.

Tim Winders: 01:03:04

We could go off on a tangent, but I want to ask my final question.

Tim Winders: 01:03:08

We are seek, go create here, Patrick, those three words.

Tim Winders: 01:03:12

I'm gonna let you pick one of those words over the other two.

Tim Winders: 01:03:14

That means more resonates with you right now, whatever.

Tim Winders: 01:03:16

Seek, go or create which one and why.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:19

I picked Seek because.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:21

I teach that curiosity is the, is really the foundation of all things.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:27

when I get this all the time, I get a executive leader that says to me, Patrick,

Patrick Thean: 01:03:32

I got my 360 feedback and one thing my team wants me to learn is learn how to.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:37

Listen better.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:38

I get that all the time.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:40

and I've learned that you actually don't have to learn how to listen better.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:43

If you want to learn how to listen better, just learn to be a little bit more curious

Patrick Thean: 01:03:47

and interested in the other person.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:49

And so I picked the word seek.

Patrick Thean: 01:03:51

I think if more people would be more curious and do a little bit more seeking,

Patrick Thean: 01:03:55

there'll be less arguments all around.

Tim Winders: 01:03:57

I love that.

Tim Winders: 01:03:58

Be curious, Patrick, thank you for this conversation.

Tim Winders: 01:04:01

It has been so enjoyable to me.

Tim Winders: 01:04:04

I've enjoyed so many aspects of it If you've listened in, please share

Tim Winders: 01:04:07

this episode with someone else.

Tim Winders: 01:04:09

I know that Patrick said something that someone, needs to hear.

Tim Winders: 01:04:13

So the best way that people get exposed to podcasts like this, this

Tim Winders: 01:04:17

information, this type of, teaching and training that we like to do here is

Tim Winders: 01:04:21

when someone texts them a screenshot or.

Tim Winders: 01:04:23

Shares it.

Tim Winders: 01:04:24

If you're listening on YouTube or one of the podcast platforms, please do that.

Tim Winders: 01:04:28

We have new episodes every Monday until next time, continue being

Tim Winders: 01:04:34

all that you were created to be.